Teaching and Learning the Basics

Discussion in 'Education' started by Adam's Apple, Aug 30, 2007.

  1. Adam's Apple
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    Adam's Apple Senior Member

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    Back to School Blues
    By Victor Davis Hanson
    August 23, 2007

    ...most critics agree that the root causes for our undereducated youth are not all the schools' fault. Our present ambition to make every American youth college material -- in a way our forefathers would have thought ludicrous -- ensures that we will both fail in that utopian goal and lack enough literate Americans with critical vocational skills.

    The disintegration of the American nuclear family is also at fault. Too many students don't have two parents reminding them of the value of both abstract and practical learning.

    What then can our elementary and secondary schools do, when many of their students' problems begin at home or arise from our warped popular culture?

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/08/back_to_school_blues.html
     
  2. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    Don't hold your breath waiting for anything from this bunch of illiterates, AA.
     
  3. trobinett
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    trobinett Senior Member

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    I concur AA, just witness the FIRST response to your post.
     
  4. jasendorf
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    jasendorf Senior Member

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    How most Republicans view education:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    You need to learn some reality, you will find that the political party that doesn't want to "blame" children and families for any failure at all is NOT the Republican Party. The party that wants to turn local education into Federal education, that supported getting rid of History for "Social Studies" that wants kids "self Esteem" to be more important than learning is NOT the Republican party.
     
  6. jasendorf
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    jasendorf Senior Member

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    I'm the husband, son and son-in-law of teachers... I don't think I need any lessons from you on what's going on in schools.

    And, don't be laughable... the ESEA (NCLB) is federal law which strips local school districts of their autonomy using the States as its henchmen. Republicans have one goal for public education in America: for-profit privatization and cheap labor. And, the best way to do that is to dupe people into believing that "Social Studies" is somehow a bad word (as if the civics being taught in the **gasp** Social Studies classes is somehow "evil") and that teaching a kid not to hate themselves is somehow counterproductive to learning.

    NCLB is designed to punish teachers for being teachers and persuade conservative voters into believing that if their kids aren't excelling in school... it's those damned liberal teachers and their unions fault.

    It's not that the Republican Party doesn't want kids to learn... it's simply that they want cheap labor and privatization more. And the best way to do that is to denigrate teachers and ignore parental responsibility.
     
  7. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Your ignorant on this issue. Of course being liberal I guess you couldn't be expected to admit your political leanings are what caused the destruction of the American Family and the decline in our Public schools.

    I have a friend in the Post Office. Let me make a guess, your "teacher" associates are in a Union? My friend knows all about how the Postal union is anti republican. It wouldn't surprise me one bit that teacher Unions are just as vehemently opposed to them as well. Remind me again who wants tenure to include the promise that a teacher can not be fired even for gross incompetence? Who wants to move teachers from class rooms into ever bigger and bigger Administration functions? Who supports the "promote them no matter what" concept because, failing them would be hard on their self esteem? Remind me again about how a moment of silence in school is BAD and allowing Christian organizations access to school facilities after hours is some how a violation of "church and State" BUT teaching the children about the Islamic religion, providing time and facilities DURING school hours for Muslim prayer and giving them access after hours to facilities is just "diversity" in practice and "tolerance".
     
  8. jasendorf
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    jasendorf Senior Member

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    Never ceases to amaze me when a grown man, especially one who is lamenting how bad ***today's liberal education system*** is, cannot discern between "your" and "you're". Maybe they should have taught English at the great **school of the olden days** that you went to?

    So now I'm the root of the "destruction of the American Family?" Who'd have thunk lil' ole me could destroy the American Family! Me and my liberal ways have killed education!

    Why would a school system give tenure to a teacher who is incompetent in the first place? It takes years to get tenure in school systems that have tenure (most don't)... are you saying that administrators are giving tenure to incompetent teachers or that they become incompetent only when their salary reaches a point that they could hire someone cheaper? Unfortunately for your argument... most teachers work as part of a contract. Take my wife's public school for example: First year, one year contract. Second year, one year contract. Third and fourth year, two-year contract. Fifth and sixth year, two-year contract. Seventh through ninth year, three-year contract. And so on. This is a standard union agreement between teachers and the school system. At the end of the contract, the school can choose to renew the contract with the teacher or not. The school district has plenty of opportunities to determine which teachers are capable and which are not.

    What you want is the school to have the ability to balance its budgets on teachers' backs and work completely without a contract. Then, when people like you come along and say, "slash the school budget! you can't throw money at it! insert your slogan here!" The district can just toss out the most expensive employees and satisfy your short-term whim. You're right when I say I support teachers not having to take all the financial responsibility for school budgets. (Ask pilots (many of them military veterans) how they're been propping up airlines with pay cuts and having their union bend over for the airlines while the corporate executives take massive pay hikes... worked really well for them didn't it?)

    This one's easy. Republicans. The amount of time teaching has shrunk immensely during the past ten years under the rule of Republicans here in the State of Ohio. Now it's hours and hours of paperwork and IEPs.

    Every parent you've ever met. As long as it's THEIR kid you're talking about. In the State of Ohio, teachers can't even hold a kid back a grade... they can only "suggest" holding the student back. Only the parent can actually keep a student back a grade. Guess what they usually choose... you can thank the Republican legislature in Ohio for that little gem.

    Provide a concrete case for me to comment on. You want to attribute this particular frame of thought to me... but I don't hold the belief you just presented above... here's what I believe: 1) moment of silence: fine by me; 2) religious organizations of any kind having access to school facilities after school: fine by me; 3) teaching children about all religions in a theology course, fine by me; 4) indoctrinating children into any brand of religion, not fine by me; 5) giving special treatment for prayer by a certain group during school hours: not fine by me. If you'd like to attack my actual beliefs instead of the ones you want to magically ascribe to me... go right ahead... they're there for you to see. You can put down the strawman now.
     
  9. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Bullshit, we have examples from New York and california and else where that Muslims are treated special. In New York they were given time and special accomadations DURING school time for Ramadan. When the Christians finally challanged it and threatened court action, rather then provide equal time they canceled the muslim special treatment. That went on for at least 3 years.

    In California we have several examples of teachers ORDERING their children to dress like, act like and think like muslims, all as a "diversity" training exersize. Ask those teachers about doing that for Christian religions and watch the fire works.
     
  10. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    In NY, Jews are also given special privileges for Rosh Hashonna and Yom Kippur. Christians are given special privileges on Christmas and Easter (I'm not sure about Good Friday). That doesn't bother me. Nor does teaching a class that teaches tolerance for a people who, particularly, after 9/11, may have been in some danger of being mistreated by others.

    Just saying.
     

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