Teachers Should Tolerate The "F" Word.

GotZoom

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2005
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368
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Cordova, TN
This is just crap.

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VICTORVILLE —Victor Valley Union High School District teachers have been coached on a new approach to disciplining students that has some teachers shaking their heads in disbelief.

One teacher has stepped forward to air her concerns publicly, although she said she is concerned about how doing so could affect her job security.

“There is a cultural war going on and evidently it is going on right at this school site,” said Julie Behrse, an art teacher at Maverick High School. “It really is a movement, and now it has a name,” she added, referring to what Speaker Ray Culberson called the “new professionalism.”

At issue is whether teachers need to adjust how they interact with and discipline students who misbehave, particularly students from difficult backgrounds.

Culberson, director of youth services for the San Bernardino City Unified School District, said at a back-to-school inservice meeting that students today have less respect for authority than they did when many teachers were in school and consequently, some teachers have unrealistic expectations of their students.

According to Culberson, many teenagers come to school with baggage from problems at home or other areas of their lives. Culberson described these students, who are prone to disruptive behavior, as “kids in chaos.”

The district superintendent, Julian Weaver, said Culberson’s message does not represent a change in district disciplinary policy, but Victor Valley has many students from chaotic backgrounds such as Culberson described, and teachers need to learn to interpret their students’ body language. When a student is visibly agitated, the teacher might not want to push any buttons by asking if he or she brought in homework that day.

“We need to see ourselves as teachers and adults in the classroom,” Weaver said, “but we shouldn’t see ourselves as dictators, where students see themselves as far less than the teacher.”

A teacher at Silverado High School, who asked to remain anonymous to protect her job, said she understood Culberson’s message to be that teachers need to do everything possible to reach students and keep them in school.

When Culberson asked the audience how many times they could tolerate hearing “f-— you” from a student and said he could personally handle more than 100 instances a day, the teacher said she felt the presentation became a bit “off the wall.” A teacher next to her told her that she would not tolerate one case of swearing.

Teachers should never take anything a student says personally, Culberson said. He referred to a teacher’s personal “f-— you” meter, meaning the number of times a teenager swears at them before they would discipline the student. If teachers have a low tolerance for bad behavior and frequently send a student out of the classroom, the students will drive them crazy whereas teachers with a high tolerance will be able to calmly follow school procedure and still discipline the student, Culberson said in an interview. Maverick High School principal Beth Crane declined to comment on Culberson’s speech, but principal Tracy Marsh of Silverado High School said state law prohibits vulgarity and swearing in the classroom and allows discipline ranging from suspension to being expelled, no matter what background a student comes from.

“Nothing a person from San Bernardino says can change state law,” Marsh said. “We do want to make sure that the example is set and the tone it set,” he said, referring to student behavior.

He added that although he did not attend the inservice, he spoke to four teachers at Silverado High School who heard the presentation and described it as a positive experience.

According to Weaver, Culberson received a standing ovation.

“Everything that I do is designed for the mental health of the teacher,” Culberson said, and added that he gives presentations free of charge.

http://www.vvdailypress.com/2006/115669067893658.html
 
I'd love to read about teachers who aren't idiots...I'd love to read about those in authority having the sack to stand up for absolute truth. :-/
 
i coach kids soccer....i had a player tell me to fuck off once....i looked at him and said...."son you no longer exist" and as far as i was concerned he didn't....his dad eventually asked me why he was not allowed to participate in parctices or games....i told him....dad called me and asshole....i looked at him and said...."sir you no longer exist"....kid never played for me again....nobody ever swore at me agian
 
Teachers should never take anything a student says personally, Culberson said. He referred to a teacher’s personal “f-— you” meter, meaning the number of times a teenager swears at them before they would discipline the student. If teachers have a low tolerance for bad behavior and frequently send a student out of the classroom, the students will drive them crazy whereas teachers with a high tolerance will be able to calmly follow school procedure and still discipline the student, Culberson said in an interview.

This dude does NOT understand human nature. If you allow kids to speak disrepectfully to you, then they somehow usually come up with this crazy notion that they don't HAVE to respect you.

It's drawing a firm line that stops the kids from going crazy. Otherwise, they're just thinking, "Well I got away with saying 'f@#$,' how about if I get in the teacher's face? No reaction to that? How about if I take a swing at him?"

Respect is an attitude. It's not so much about what they DO, as what they FEEL. If they are allowed to get away with ANY expression of disrespect, they will only push the envelope.
 
Flash forward a few years and these same kids who were never taught to respect authority are sitting around wondering why they can't keep a job.

Democrates will blaim racism/classism, take your pick.
 
This is just crap.

...
The district superintendent, Julian Weaver, said Culberson’s message does not represent a change in district disciplinary policy, but Victor Valley has many students from chaotic backgrounds such as Culberson described, and teachers need to learn to interpret their students’ body language. When a student is visibly agitated, the teacher might not want to push any buttons by asking if he or she brought in homework that day.

...
Teachers should never take anything a student says personally, Culberson said. He referred to a teacher’s personal “f-— you” meter, meaning the number of times a teenager swears at them before they would discipline the student. If teachers have a low tolerance for bad behavior and frequently send a student out of the classroom, the students will drive them crazy whereas teachers with a high tolerance will be able to calmly follow school procedure and still discipline the student, Culberson said in an interview.
...

Good lord. Can anthropologists pinpoint the year when we devolved into spineless humanoids?
 
If teachers tolerate behavior like this from trouble students, it not only sends a bad message to those students, but to all the other students as well. This guy's a boob, nothing more.
 
Totally opposed to this point of view, but in a way, I can see it... if it becomes an issue of safety. If these kids are coming in, high or sneaking weapons, it might be better to just appease them until you can get them out of there.
 
I'd love to read about teachers who aren't idiots...I'd love to read about those in authority having the sack to stand up for absolute truth. :-/

I'm in middle school, not high school. Private, not public. Yesterday there were 10 out of 21 kids that did not have their homework. I recorded the grades, told those that had a zero that the next day, today, if they turned in their work, they would get 2/3 credit. They all had to fill out a 'student responsibility form' which lists the assignment, date, and point value. It also makes them write why they didn't do the work.

One wrote, 'The weekend was too short.' Another: 'I spent the weekend with my best friend, had a lot of fun, willingly chose not to do the assignment.' Probably the most honest of the bunch. The rest were variants of 'I left it at home', 'I forgot', etc.

Today, all but 3 had it done. Those 3 got another form sent home to be signed by parents, 2 of 3 were the first two mentioned. I attached their 'reasons.' Both swore, and were given in school suspensions, parents called. 7 class days so far.

One parent actually started saying it was too much work for the second week of school, I explained my expectations, when she started swearing, I made the principal take the call. Morning meeting tomorrow.
 
The sentiments expressed in the article are actually pretty common, especially in urban districts.

To an extent, I can see his point. I did my student teacher in inner city Pittsburgh - 10th-12th grade emotional and learning support students. Let me tell you...when a 6 foot 2 football player with Oppositional Defiance Disorder stomps into the room throws his bookbag into the corner, screams "I fucking hate this place and everyone in it!" And then sits at his desk and puts his head down...you give him his space.

Later...when the class was working quietly...I'd go over and say something like, "Sounds like youre having a really lousy day. I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know if you need to get a drink at the water fountain or something. Otherwise, when you feel up to it, grab your notebook and let me check your homework, ok? If you didn't get to it last night we'll go over it in class and I'll help you with it at study hall."

Now...in most situations the kids didn't swear at me. But at the middle school level (where I'm now teaching in a upper middle class district) the swearing has gotten pretty prevalent. Kids drop the f-bomb in the hallways with no fear of repercusions and most teachers just let it go. Why? I think part of it is that we know the parents will roll their eyes at us when we call...another part is that adminstration doesn't want to be bothered with something like that when they are facing parents threatening to sue them because their kid didn't get straight A's.

Kathianne, you have my sympathy....but also my respect...way to stick to your guns, girl!!!!!
 
The sentiments expressed in the article are actually pretty common, especially in urban districts.

To an extent, I can see his point. I did my student teacher in inner city Pittsburgh - 10th-12th grade emotional and learning support students. Let me tell you...when a 6 foot 2 football player with Oppositional Defiance Disorder stomps into the room throws his bookbag into the corner, screams "I fucking hate this place and everyone in it!" And then sits at his desk and puts his head down...you give him his space.

Later...when the class was working quietly...I'd go over and say something like, "Sounds like youre having a really lousy day. I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know if you need to get a drink at the water fountain or something. Otherwise, when you feel up to it, grab your notebook and let me check your homework, ok? If you didn't get to it last night we'll go over it in class and I'll help you with it at study hall."

Now...in most situations the kids didn't swear at me. But at the middle school level (where I'm now teaching in a upper middle class district) the swearing has gotten pretty prevalent. Kids drop the f-bomb in the hallways with no fear of repercusions and most teachers just let it go. Why? I think part of it is that we know the parents will roll their eyes at us when we call...another part is that adminstration doesn't want to be bothered with something like that when they are facing parents threatening to sue them because their kid didn't get straight A's.

Kathianne, you have my sympathy....but also my respect...way to stick to your guns, girl!!!!!

Thanks Gem. I have way more confidence in the kids meeting my expectations than the parents. For the hardcore parents, that will trash me with their kids, I basically 'isolate' the student, if they choose that path-only one in 8 years has.

By 'isolate' I don't mean to ignore the kid's behavior or non-work, just do not 'deal with it', other than status notes and signature required failures/nonwork done. No punishments. Unlike the 'normal' process. Funny, how those kids want to be normalized. They do, and I respond to that. They know their parents are either off or don't care. I do and they know it.
 
I rant about teachers unions I think they’re a problem.
I rant about administrators that are liberal in their approach to education (the everyone must feel good type).

My rants are valid. However, I’m afraid that even if we could snap our fingers and solve the administration and union problems we are only ignoring the MAJOR problem, that being Parents! Until that issue is addressed by society I’m afraid there is no hope of improving education regardless of what we do.
 
I rant about teachers unions I think they’re a problem.
I rant about administrators that are liberal in their approach to education (the everyone must feel good type).

My rants are valid. However, I’m afraid that even if we could snap our fingers and solve the administration and union problems we are only ignoring the MAJOR problem, that being Parents! Until that issue is addressed by society I’m afraid there is no hope of improving education regardless of what we do.
Yep, behind every kid with a problem, stands at least one parent.
 
Yep, behind every kid with a problem, stands at least one parent.

Some male parents should have had something cut off,
and some female parents should have had something
sewn up air tight.

Since we missed that, let's flog them, and their brats too.
Not as bad as a Singapore floggging, but bad enough so
they can't sit down for a few days.

And if they screw up again, flog them again.
 
My sister, who lives in Finland, called the other day and mentioned an Oprah show about how bad US schools are. Then she explained how they do it there and it now makes sense when they talk about how good their schools are.

Kids, in Finland, have to take a test to continue onto highschool. If they fail they are diverted into vocational schools to learn farming, daycare, sales, things like that. Only kids who finished highschool can go onto college.

Now, an adult who failed the test when younger can study to retake the test, but they're only allowed to take the test twice.

I told her since that is the way things are done there it's impossible to compair US schools to Finnish. Their kids and parents want to be in school and lot of our kids, especially inner city, don't and when forced just cause trouble.
 
i coach kids soccer....i had a player tell me to fuck off once....i looked at him and said...."son you no longer exist" and as far as i was concerned he didn't....his dad eventually asked me why he was not allowed to participate in parctices or games....i told him....dad called me and asshole....i looked at him and said...."sir you no longer exist"....kid never played for me again....nobody ever swore at me agian

:clap: :mm: Good for you!!
You see the bar for bad behavior keeps getting lowered to the point where anything kids do is not their fault.........I believe it's called Amorality. After all they are going to do it anyway, we might as well all understand and embrace:gang1:
 
I'm in middle school, not high school. Private, not public. Yesterday there were 10 out of 21 kids that did not have their homework. I recorded the grades, told those that had a zero that the next day, today, if they turned in their work, they would get 2/3 credit. They all had to fill out a 'student responsibility form' which lists the assignment, date, and point value. It also makes them write why they didn't do the work.

One wrote, 'The weekend was too short.' Another: 'I spent the weekend with my best friend, had a lot of fun, willingly chose not to do the assignment.' Probably the most honest of the bunch. The rest were variants of 'I left it at home', 'I forgot', etc.

Today, all but 3 had it done. Those 3 got another form sent home to be signed by parents, 2 of 3 were the first two mentioned. I attached their 'reasons.' Both swore, and were given in school suspensions, parents called. 7 class days so far.

One parent actually started saying it was too much work for the second week of school, I explained my expectations, when she started swearing, I made the principal take the call. Morning meeting tomorrow.


You go, Kathianne! :highfive:
 

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