Teacher In Trouble For Ripping Bible

[Mr. P]

Give her a raise?

Absolutely...she's did what most public teachers don't do...She taught a lesson. Apparently she did it without regard for the thinking of the left or the right.
She pissed everyone off didn't she...? She took a Bible to school..pissed off the left.
She destroyed it...pissed off the right.. DAMN WHEN IS THE PUBLIC GOING TO TAKE THE HANDCUFFS OFF TEACHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is why liberals are so two-faced. For them it's not OK to bring a Bible into the classroom as it might "affect" the poor little children and their very sensitive feelings regarding religion. So the ACLU jumps on the case and makes it a law that a teacher cannot bring his own private Bible to school to read (just all by himself) during study hall or whatever. (are you getting the picture yet?)

Not yet, no.
I've never heard of such a law..got a link?

BTW..I'm not liberal...at least not by todays definition.

 

[Merlin1047]

Very well stated. You people should try to see that in a way this teacher was actually reinforcing the sanctity of the Bible by destroying it. You are missing the message entirely. It was a good lesson and you are fools if you do not see this.

Wade

My, you do have a way of pissing me off. What is it with some of you libs that you think you are the gifted few who are capable of analytical thought? How long does it take to acquire the degree of arrogance to call others fools if they fail come to the same conclusion as you?

Let me break it down into bite-sized chunks for you. There are many things about the United States with which I disagree. I have ways of communicating my displeasure. I contact my congressman, I write letters to corporations or to the editor, I participate in boycotts or I attend rallies but I DO NOT BURN THE FLAG TO MAKE MY POINT because I have too much respect for that symbol to abuse it.

Likewise, there were many ways this teacher could have approached the subject and illustrated the teaching point she was attempting to make without using the bible as a stunt-book.

I think you have helped me to finally figure out why most aetheists are liberals. You are so arrogant that you can't bear the thought that there exists in the universe anything greater than yourselves.

 

[Annie]

Personally I would not be thrilled with my children being taught much info from the Bible or the Koran, in a public school, other than in comparative religions part of a social studies class, perhaps a literature class. However, the misconception about a bible not being allowed in a public school, is wrong:

http://www.teachaboutthebible.org/bps/bpsfaguide01.htm

Check it out. I got this at a post grad Constitution class.

The guide has been endorsed by the following organizations:
American Association of School Administrators

American Federation of Teachers

American Jewish Committee

American Jewish Congress

Anti-Defamation League

Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development

Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs

Christian Educators Association International

Christian Legal Society

Council on Islamic Education

National Association of Evangelicals

National Association of Secondary School Principals

National Council of Churches of Christ in the U.S.A.

National Council for the Social Studies

National Education Association

National School Boards Association

People for the American Way Foundation

Union of American Hebrew Congregations

 

[acludem]

I was taught about Christianity in public school, I even went to a church on a field trip. Of course we visited a Jewish Temple, a mosque, Catholic church, and a baptist church on the same trip. You can teach about the bible in school without prosthelyzing.

And btw, at least in my area, there no prohibition against teachers having a copy of the bible with them at school, so long as they don't prosthelyze.

acludem

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Absolutely...she's did what most public teachers don't do...She taught a lesson. Apparently she did it without regard for the thinking of the left or the right.
She pissed everyone off didn't she...? She took a Bible to school..pissed off the left.
She destroyed it...pissed off the right.. DAMN WHEN IS THE PUBLIC GOING TO TAKE THE HANDCUFFS OFF TEACHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps when they get better test results?

Not yet, no.
I've never heard of such a law..got a link?

BTW..I'm not liberal...at least not by todays definition.

I was referring to an ACLU lawsuit successfully won against Kenneth Roberts, a 5th grade teacher who liked to read his Bible quietly by himself during appropriate times of the school day.
http://www.reclaimamerica.org/Pages/NEWS/newspage.asp?story=1149

 

[acludem]

This article is extremely vague and comes from a very specific point-of-view. It also cites a case from almost 20 years ago.

Come up with something more recent and get the article from a reputable source, then i'll argue the point with you.

Somehow I doubt all this guy was doing was reading his bible quietly to himself, something more had to be going on for the ACLU to get involved.

A recent case that refutes your argument: http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/StudentsRights.cfm?ID=15680&c=159

acludem

 

[Annie]

This article is extremely vague and comes from a very specific point-of-view. It also cites a case from almost 20 years ago.

Come up with something more recent and get the article from a reputable source, then i'll argue the point with you.

Somehow I doubt all this guy was doing was reading his bible quietly to himself, something more had to be going on for the ACLU to get involved.

A recent case that refutes your argument: http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/StudentsRights.cfm?ID=15680&c=159

acludem

Well me agreeing with ACLUdem? It must be snowing in hell! Most of the problems that have occurred regarding schools and religion have come from evangelizing, atheists, and basic misunderstandings of the law. I do not want any Public school teachers 'teaching' my children 'religion', though I have no problem with teaching about religion and its influence on culture, education, etc.

By the same token, I do not want any teacher, directly or indirectly telling my children that religion is inherently for the ignorant or trying to influence them away from my belief system. It's my sphere of influence what religion my children are taught-either by myself or those whom I've decided to entrust to serve in my place-in this rhelm.

Actually to a very large degree, I feel the same about the schools teaching sexuality as a lifestyle. I don't have a problem with teaching about reproduction or std's, though I understand those that do. To the best of my knowledge, the schools will provide alternative curriculum if the parents request it, (sort of like kids may sit during the pledge).

To a lesser degree, I would say that teachers that push their political beliefs on students are also undermining the natural parental influence, but this is dicier. I see no way for the school administration to deal with this unless the teacher is out of control, which probably means there would be other problems.

 

[Mr. P]

Perhaps when they get better test results?

So then what we have here his your typical catch-22...
We'll take the cuffs off teachers when scores go up, but
score can't go up until the cuffs are off.

I was referring to an ACLU lawsuit successfully won against Kenneth Roberts, a 5th grade teacher who liked to read his Bible quietly by himself during appropriate times of the school day.

As far as this court proceeding (Kenneth Roberts 1986)....
It doesn't appear the aclu brought the suite only participated
somehow, although from the article that's not really clear.

 

[UsaPride]

BRAVO FOR THE TEACHER!!! SHE ACCOMPLISHED EXACTLY WHAT SHE WAS TRYING TO DO!!!! SHE GOT THE STUDENTS TO FIGHT AGAINST SOMEONE DESTROYING LITERATURE THEY FELT MATTERED!!!!!

Since there was no link, all I read was what the OP quoted. So, the ones that are saying the students learned something from this, did you read the whole article or just what was quoted here? Because I didn't see anything from a student saying they learned a lesson here.

 

[Gem]

USAPride,

Obviously she taught them, look at the reaction. You disapprove because your sacred text was the one that she chose to mess with...I see it as a great acknowledgment of how important that book is, the teacher was aware that it was going to invoke a strong reaction from her students.

Some were offended, that is fine. Many, MANY people were offended at the notion that the Earth was not the center of the universe, in fact they killed people for saying such radical things, people were arrested for teaching the notion that we might have evolved from "lesser" species.

Teaching is sometimes a shocking and occassionally uncomfortable situation in which your comfort zone is challenged to make you think. Sometimes, the purpose is simply to examine the WAY you think. I'm willing to bet that those students, even those who are upset....are questioning the idea of burning books...if they ever are unfortunate enough to witness people burning literature they will have a learning experience to travel back to....having dealt with this situation they will have a context to approach the new situation. VOILA....LEARNING.

Now, obviously...you aren't going to reach every student. Those who are deeply religious or fundamentalist Christian might not be able to move past the fact that she tore up their Holy Book. I would argue that that in itself, helps to illustrate part of the teachers point...however this is an issue that schools have faced for years. People who don't want their children to be taught Catcher in the Rye because of the swearing, people who do not think that their children should be taught sexual education...this is their absolute right, and I am not judging them negatively...I am simply saying that strict religious people have always had problems with public education...this is nothing new. Unfortunately, the teacher overestimated people's ability to get the point...

Now, as a teacher, my one complaint would be that she improperly framed the lesson so that the students knew what the purpose of the lesson was...you can still shock students out of their comfort zone without making it a painfully uncomfortable experience. She could have asked them to list books that were important to them (although, to side with the teacher once again....if you have ever been in a classroom of 16 year olds and asked them what books are important to them...you might be more aware of why she simply chose to go right to the Bible)...she could have begun the lesson by outlining what she was trying to do.

Guess what...teachers are human, they have great ideas for lessons that sometimes work beautifully and sometimes flop. At least she was trying to reach her students...far better than just tossing the book in their laps and saying, "test on the first three chapters tomorrow."

You do not have the right to not be offended in this world. You have the right to voice your concerns about your child's or any child's education...however, this teacher was not advocating the destruction of the Bible...she was illustrating how terrible destroying it truly was...she was not insulting Christianity...she was acknowledging how many students celebrate it...she was not threatening or harming her students....she was attempting to teach them....

And rest assurred, USAPride...thanks to people like those who are causing this hoopla....she won't try to teach in a way that might actually reach the apathetic minds of today again...

 

[Mr. P]

USAPride,

Obviously she taught them, look at the reaction. You disapprove because your sacred text was the one that she chose to mess with...I see it as a great acknowledgment of how important that book is, the teacher was aware that it was going to invoke a strong reaction from her students.

Some were offended, that is fine. Many, MANY people were offended at the notion that the Earth was not the center of the universe, in fact they killed people for saying such radical things, people were arrested for teaching the notion that we might have evolved from "lesser" species.

Teaching is sometimes a shocking and occassionally uncomfortable situation in which your comfort zone is challenged to make you think. Sometimes, the purpose is simply to examine the WAY you think. I'm willing to bet that those students, even those who are upset....are questioning the idea of burning books...if they ever are unfortunate enough to witness people burning literature they will have a learning experience to travel back to....having dealt with this situation they will have a context to approach the new situation. VOILA....LEARNING.

Now, obviously...you aren't going to reach every student. Those who are deeply religious or fundamentalist Christian might not be able to move past the fact that she tore up their Holy Book. I would argue that that in itself, helps to illustrate part of the teachers point...however this is an issue that schools have faced for years. People who don't want their children to be taught Catcher in the Rye because of the swearing, people who do not think that their children should be taught sexual education...this is their absolute right, and I am not judging them negatively...I am simply saying that strict religious people have always had problems with public education...this is nothing new. Unfortunately, the teacher overestimated people's ability to get the point...

Now, as a teacher, my one complaint would be that she improperly framed the lesson so that the students knew what the purpose of the lesson was...you can still shock students out of their comfort zone without making it a painfully uncomfortable experience. She could have asked them to list books that were important to them (although, to side with the teacher once again....if you have ever been in a classroom of 16 year olds and asked them what books are important to them...you might be more aware of why she simply chose to go right to the Bible)...she could have begun the lesson by outlining what she was trying to do.

Guess what...teachers are human, they have great ideas for lessons that sometimes work beautifully and sometimes flop. At least she was trying to reach her students...far better than just tossing the book in their laps and saying, "test on the first three chapters tomorrow."

You do not have the right to not be offended in this world. You have the right to voice your concerns about your child's or any child's education...however, this teacher was not advocating the destruction of the Bible...she was illustrating how terrible destroying it truly was...she was not insulting Christianity...she was acknowledging how many students celebrate it...she was not threatening or harming her students....she was attempting to teach them....

I agree 100%! Very well said, Gem.

And rest assurred, USAPride...thanks to people like those who are causing this hoopla....she won't try to teach in a way that might actually reach the apathetic minds of today again...

That is the true tragedy of this whole story.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

This article is extremely vague and comes from a very specific point-of-view. It also cites a case from almost 20 years ago.

Come up with something more recent and get the article from a reputable source, then i'll argue the point with you.

Well, what do you expect when it's 20 years old? The minor details may be not be there, but the gist of the case is explained. This is an example of the cases upon which all the craziness in our schools is based.

Somehow I doubt all this guy was doing was reading his bible quietly to himself, something more had to be going on for the ACLU to get involved.

A recent case that refutes your argument: http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/StudentsRights.cfm?ID=15680&c=159

acludem

This is a handy escape of yours not to face the issue. I doubt that this teacher was doing anything more than reading his Bible as stated. It follows with the anti-Christian antics of the Left and the ACLU, who you must admit recently even went after a teacher for wearing a cross. The case you pointed out is just another example of the craziness that is going on in our schools. Thank God that some parents speak up loudly and get some of it corrected.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

So then what we have here his your typical catch-22...
We'll take the cuffs off teachers when scores go up, but
score can't go up until the cuffs are off..

As far as this court proceeding (Kenneth Roberts 1986)....
It doesn't appear the aclu brought the suite only participated
somehow, although from the article that's not really clear.

Do you know what the ACLU does? If it says they got "involved" you can bet it was on a legal basis.

 

[Mr. P]

Do you know what the ACLU does? If it says they got "involved" you can bet it was on a legal basis.

Of course I know...Actually they ..the Aclu didn't say they brought suite ..you did..
A link to the actual case would be nice.
Then we could deal with facts.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Of course I know...Actually they ..the Aclu didn't say they brought suite ..you did..
A link to the actual case would be nice.
Then we could deal with facts.

Gee, sorry I'm not an attorney with the written case handy.

Here is another link that may help to explain the case a little better for you.
A main point that convicted Roberts is that the students are are supposedly held "captive" and being "silently indoctrinated" by a couple of his religious books sitting on his teacher's desk in the classroom. How horrible and devastating to the children!

But burn the Bible in front of them? No problemo.

http://www.libertymagazine.org/article/articleview/100/1/48

 

[UsaPride]

USAPride,

Obviously she taught them, look at the reaction.

What reaction? I didn't see a link. The only reaction I see is the people on this board.

You disapprove because your sacred text was the one that she chose to mess with...I see it as a great acknowledgment of how important that book is, the teacher was aware that it was going to invoke a strong reaction from her students.

I don't know what reaction the students have. Didn't see the link.

As for the rest of what you wrote, if you go back and READ my posts, I said I UNDERSTAND why she did it, I just believe that ripping up a Bible is wrong. AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND why she did it, I just BELIEVE that ripping up a Bible is wrong.

 

[Mr. P]

Gee, sorry I'm not an attorney with the written case handy.

No problem, but you should at least have a link to the facts that support your stand, not some bias site. So far you don't.

Here is another link that may help to explain the case a little better for you. A main point that convicted Roberts is that the students are are supposedly held "captive" and being "silently indoctrinated" by a couple of his religious books sitting on his teacher's desk in the classroom. How horrible and devastating to the children!

An where is that from?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

No problem, but you should at least have a link to the facts that support your stand, not some bias site. So far you don't.


An where is that from?

Sorry, forgot the link. I edited the earlier post already to add it.