Taxpayer Funded Abortion in ObamaCare

[Jroc]

Are you against Abortion? doesn't matter you will now help fund them...

A new Health and Human Services rule allows for one dollar abortions via state health care exchanges—which will be funded by taxpayers. In a move that the Independent Sentinel describes as an “accounting trick”, the Hyde Amendment, which blocks direct taxpayer funding of abortions, will be bypassed.

The accounting maneuver was ostensibly added by pro-life U.S. Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) who is now retiring due to, it is believed, his role in the debacle.


As a result, nothing will stand in the way of government administered health plans covering elective abortions.

Taxpayer Funded Abortion in ObamaCare | Liberty News Network

 

[Mr. H.]

Does this mean they'll be available at all Dollar Stores?

 

[Jroc]

Does this mean they'll be available at all Dollar Stores?

Yeah maybe Planned Parenthood can lease some office space in the back room $1 abortions no coupon needed.

 

[Mr. H.]

That's even a better deal than the $5 Footlong.

 

[Greenbeard]

Public funding for abortions is not allowed under those rules:

(e) Prohibition on the use of Federal funds.

(1) If a Qualified Health Plan provides coverage of services described in paragraph (d)(1) of this section [Abortions for which public funding is prohibited], the QHP issuer must not use any amount attributable to any of the following for the purposes of paying for such services:

(i) The credit under section 36B of the Code and the amount (if any) of the advance payment of the credit under section 1412 of the Affordable Care Act;
(ii) Any cost-sharing reduction under section 1402 of the Affordable Care Act and the amount (if any) of the advance payments of the reduction under section 1412 of the Affordable Care Act.​

The public subsidies are explicitly forbidden from paying for abortions.

Insurers offering abortion coverage are required to set up separate allocation accounts funded solely by unsubsidized premiums from enrollees--only that money can be used to fund abortions. No public money gets into the allocation accounts. The payments to those allocation counts are required to be actuarially sound: "The QHP issuer must estimate the basic per enrollee, per month cost, determined on an average actuarial basis, for including [abortion] coverage." They're self-contained and fully funded by private premiums.

Taxpayer money isn't used to fund abortions.

 

[Jroc]

Public funding for abortions is not allowed under those rules:

(e) Prohibition on the use of Federal funds.

(1) If a Qualified Health Plan provides coverage of services described in paragraph (d)(1) of this section [Abortions for which public funding is prohibited], the QHP issuer must not use any amount attributable to any of the following for the purposes of paying for such services:

(i) The credit under section 36B of the Code and the amount (if any) of the advance payment of the credit under section 1412 of the Affordable Care Act;
(ii) Any cost-sharing reduction under section 1402 of the Affordable Care Act and the amount (if any) of the advance payments of the reduction under section 1412 of the Affordable Care Act.​

The public subsidies are explicitly forbidden from paying for abortions.

Insurers offering abortion coverage are required to set up separate allocation accounts funded solely by unsubsidized premiums from enrollees--only that money can be used to fund abortions. No public money gets into the allocation accounts. The payments to those allocation counts are required to be actuarially sound: "The QHP issuer must estimate the basic per enrollee, per month cost, determined on an average actuarial basis, for including [abortion] coverage." They're self-contained and fully funded by private premiums.

Taxpayer money isn't used to fund abortions.

Requirement for insurance companies to pay for abortion and mandated copay to help cover it is the same thing doesn't matter what your rules say. It’s same as Planned Parenthoods government money is not used to pay for abortion right? Bullshit

 

[frazzledgear]

Public funding for abortions is not allowed under those rules:

(e) Prohibition on the use of Federal funds.

(1) If a Qualified Health Plan provides coverage of services described in paragraph (d)(1) of this section [Abortions for which public funding is prohibited], the QHP issuer must not use any amount attributable to any of the following for the purposes of paying for such services:

(i) The credit under section 36B of the Code and the amount (if any) of the advance payment of the credit under section 1412 of the Affordable Care Act;
(ii) Any cost-sharing reduction under section 1402 of the Affordable Care Act and the amount (if any) of the advance payments of the reduction under section 1412 of the Affordable Care Act.​

The public subsidies are explicitly forbidden from paying for abortions.

Insurers offering abortion coverage are required to set up separate allocation accounts funded solely by unsubsidized premiums from enrollees--only that money can be used to fund abortions. No public money gets into the allocation accounts. The payments to those allocation counts are required to be actuarially sound: "The QHP issuer must estimate the basic per enrollee, per month cost, determined on an average actuarial basis, for including [abortion] coverage." They're self-contained and fully funded by private premiums.

Taxpayer money isn't used to fund abortions.

GUESS AGAIN! Buried in the 2700+ pages of Obamacare requires insurance companies to start laying the groundwork this week to do just that in preparation for 2013 when all Americans will be forced to pay for abortions against their will -the fact the groundwork started this week is why it is coming to more prominent attention given the fact the media refused to report on this part of Obamacare when it was FIRST brought up by opponents. The media can only act as the lackeys of Democrats only so long before others find a way to bring a story to public attention in spite of the active help of the media to try and bury it. Not a good time for Democrats for it come up -but hey, they wrote and rammed this monstrosity down all our throats against the will of the people and it is a fine time to remember this shit is still going on and removing Obama isn't enough to fix it.

So it is a fine time for people to once again dwell on the fact that the Democrats lied through their FUCKING TEETH while they buried this new law in the muck -you know, to match their fucking lie about the cost. And of course it is only after it was rammed through, the CBO "suddenly" finds it will actually cost twice as much as they said and is already driving UP health care costs well in advance of it even being fully implemented! Oh happy day! (The CBO is always wrong on their cost estimates and anyone who hears a politician use the CBO as a source about costs should realize that politician already knows he/she is lying through their teeth. I'm waiting for the cold day in hell when the Cbo over estimates costs of a proposed bill instead of always underestimating them -while the margin by which they do underestimate them just keeps getting wider and more divorced from reality all the time. Lying to the public about what was in this bill and how much it was going to cost -benefits who here? And exactly why do they deserve to keep their job as a reward for those lies?)

Sorry -but as part of the government mandate in Obamacare requiring all Americans to purchase health care insurance, also requires the insured party to pay as a separate payment from their premiums, one that even says the insured party need not be informed about this separate charge until it is time to collect it -is a $1 payment for the specific purpose of funding abortion services. Section 1303(b)(2)(B)(i), which provides that the abortion premium “shall” be collected “without regard to the enrollee’s age, sex, or family status.”

NO exceptions and all of that money is to be used to subsidize abortions with government merely forcing insurance companies to do their dirty work while claiming it isn't forcing Americans to pay for abortions! Let me see -government orders all Americans to buy health insurance from a federal approved carrier whether they want to or not. Government orders those carriers to collect a $1 subsidy from each insured person -and that money is set aside to pay for abortions. Government kindly told the carriers they need not tell the insured person the purpose of that $1 until it was time to collect it at which time the person had NO choice in the matter if he wanted to keep their insurance.

The federal judge who ruled that Obamacare was constitutional in spite of the fact as was argued -(and part of why the Supreme Court agreed to hear this case) - “Thus, while Section 1303 cleverly (though superficially) avoids the direct use of tax-payer funds to pay for elective abortions, it in fact does so by forcing private individuals to fund them directly from their own pockets, without regard to conscientious objection to the direct and personal funding of abortion." This judge had no problem if government used this kind of superficial accounting TRICKERY like this in order to force all Americans to subsidize abortions against their will and against their conscience and against their moral or religious objections. After all, elected politicians have been using this kind of accounting trickery to claim they made "cuts" in the budget when in fact they increased spending again and again. Sorry, making a law requiring a third party to take the place of government in order to PRETEND government isn't forcing all Americans to pay for abortions against their will is nothing but a CHEAP ASS STUNT unworthy of a representative republic -but totally worthy of a totalitarian state. TRICKERY is what government does whenever people get too lax about fulfilling their own responsibility in carrying out their oversight of government in order to keep it in check and correct the power hungry who seek office in order to do this kind of crap. And a couple of federal judges had no problem with seeing our government turn into a mockery that used deception to trick its own citizens into paying for activities they believe to be murder, immoral and in violation of their moral and religious beliefs. Because evidently in these judges' world, that is the proper role of government -to use subterfuge and obfuscation against its own citizens in order to force people against their will to do exactly what the ruling elite wants. Ah, totalitarianism is always just that close. Even here.

 

[Greenbeard]

Requirement for insurance companies to pay for abortion and mandated copay to help cover it is the same thing doesn't matter what your rules say.

Insurance companies aren't required to pay for abortions.

The text of the statute is actually very clear on this point (Section 1303(b)(1)(A)):

`(1) VOLUNTARY CHOICE OF COVERAGE OF ABORTION SERVICES-

`(A) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of this title (or any amendment made by this title)--

`(i) nothing in this title (or any amendment made by this title), shall be construed to require a qualified health plan to provide coverage of [abortion services] as part of its essential health benefits for any plan year; and
`(ii) subject to subsection (a), the issuer of a qualified health plan shall determine whether or not the plan provides coverage of [abortion services] as part of such benefits for the plan year.​

Sorry -but as part of the government mandate in Obamacare requiring all Americans to purchase health care insurance, also requires the insured party to pay as a separate payment from their premiums, one that even says the insured party need not be informed about this separate charge until it is time to collect it -is a $1 payment for the specific purpose of funding abortion services. Section 1303(b)(2)(B)(i), which provides that the abortion premium “shall” be collected “without regard to the enrollee’s age, sex, or family status.”

See above. Literally, half a page above the bit you're (mis)quoting there, the law specifically clarifies that no insurance company is required to cover abortion under the ACA.

The little piece you're calling attention to explicitly says that premiums to the allocation account are required of people enrolled in a plan offering abortion coverage (you've mysteriously left that bit out to falsely imply that everyone buying an insurance plan has to contribute to an allocation account). If you don't want to be enrolled in a plan that covers abortions, then enroll in one that does not. This isn't rocket science.

As for the one dollar flat rate nonsense, the exchange regulations stipulate that the allocation accounts have to charge actuarially sound premiums for abortion services, with $1/dollar a month as a floor. The plan offering abortion coverage charges a non-subsidized premium of whatever amount is needed to fund the service.

 

[nitroz]

Planned Parenthood (who receives federal funding) does NOT fund abortion.
Neither does any insurance company.


The claim in the thread title is a lie.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBBiKkYqljw&list=LLt-GlQHg97QwZoz7T3FIiWQ&index=74&feature=plpp_video]Americans Are Pro-Birth Control: Poll - YouTube[/ame]

Go to 2:10 and listen onwards.



EDIT: Nice try, OP. Try not to make false claims and spread lies next time.

 

[Jroc]

Planned Parenthood (who receives federal funding) does NOT fund abortion.
Neither does any insurance company.


The claim in the thread title is a lie.


Americans Are Pro-Birth Control: Poll - YouTube

Go to 2:10 and listen onwards.



EDIT: Nice try, OP. Try not to make false claims and spread lies next time.

Giving them tax payer dollars for any purpose lets them shift money that would otherwise be used for something else to fund abortions. it's not rocket science genus no tax payer money should go to Planned Parenthood ...None

 

[frazzledgear]

Planned Parenthood (who receives federal funding) does NOT fund abortion.
Neither does any insurance company.


The claim in the thread title is a lie.


Go to 2:10 and listen onwards.



EDIT: Nice try, OP. Try not to make false claims and spread lies next time.

You know they were counting on the help of people like you -but the fact you believe it isn't forcing Americans to directly pay for abortions doesn't make it so. Just like when you same people insisted Obamacare was going to cost half of what it will -didn't make it true either. Turns out the opponents who were saying all along it would cost at least twice as much as lying ass Democrats were claiming -were the ones who got that right. You didn't. So you still need to pretend you are the one with the best grasp of what is really going on here NOW? ROFL

Government coming up with an accounting trickery to ORDER all insurance carriers to charge a separate $1 that ALL insured Americans must pay that IS going to subsidize abortion services -really isn't going for abortions in your world. It is people like you who actually don't have a great track record on figuring out this shit you know -so no one is reassured just because YOU choose to interpret it that way. I'm FAR more interested in how government officials and lawyers interpret it -and they totally disagree with YOU. So I guess you really don't have the final word that requires all Americans to blindly trust your lame ass interpretation as being writ in stone, huh.

Understand it, ok instead of trying to continue the blatant deceit of people the left so loves. As noted by Republican Congresspeople themselves and too many lawyers to count -to comply with the accounting requirement, plans will collect a $1 abortion SEPARATE surcharge from each premium payer as part of the Obamacare mandate. The enrollee will make two payments, $1 per month for abortion and another payment for the rest of the services covered. As described in the rule, the surcharge can only be disclosed to the enrollee at the time of enrollment. Furthermore, insurance plans may only advertise the total cost of the premiums without disclosing that enrollees will be charged a $1 per month fee to directly subsidize abortions.

The people who wrote this knew EXACTLY what they were doing and what gimmicks and tricks would be needed to bypass the Hyde amendment. All so they could claim it wouldn't force taxpayers to subsidize abortions -while keeping mum on the fact it will instead force all insured Americans to do it DIRECTLY. Are you seriously going to argue these people really DIDN'T know what they were up to by creating what would otherwise be a totally bizarre and POINTLESS arrangement if this weren't done for the specific purpose of forcing Americans to directly subsidize abortions in order to PRETEND government isn't forcing taxpayers to subsidize abortions? REALLY? What a joke. Are you really that silly and naive -or someone on the bandwagon helping lie to the American people? This SEPARATE $1 accounting stunt is for the DIRECT purpose of bypassing the Hyde amendment by forcing Americans to DIRECTLY fund abortions against their will -so the lying ass Democrats can continue their con game on Americans that taxpayers aren't funding abortions. Because that would be going through government first to do that -and Democrats figured out how to bypass it by forcing Americans to directly fund it instead. But apparently this kind of trickery and subterfuge actually works with stunning success in your case. But you don't have a good track record on this no matter what you need to believe -because reality doesn't hinge on your NEED to believe the lies.

http://nchla.org/datasource/idocuments/12USCCB.FactSheet.HCR.4.09.pdf

 

[Mr. H.]

PP should have a Dollar Menu, just like McDonalds.

But... can you get fries with that?

 

[nitroz]

Planned Parenthood (who receives federal funding) does NOT fund abortion.
Neither does any insurance company.


The claim in the thread title is a lie.


Americans Are Pro-Birth Control: Poll - YouTube

Go to 2:10 and listen onwards.



EDIT: Nice try, OP. Try not to make false claims and spread lies next time.

Giving them tax payer dollars for any purpose lets them shift money that would otherwise be used for something else to fund abortions. it's not rocket science genus no tax payer money should go to Planned Parenthood ...None

And can you prove that this is currently happening with reliable proof?

 

[Greenbeard]

As noted by Republican Congresspeople themselves and too many lawyers to count -to comply with the accounting requirement, plans will collect a $1 abortion SEPARATE surcharge from each premium payer as part of the Obamacare mandate.

Demonstrably false. Cut the bullshit.

 

[waltky]

possum got a gavel, bangin' onna coffee table...

US Health Care Battle Moves to Supreme Court
Sunday, March 25th, 2012 : Two years after it was signed into law, President Barack Obama's divisive health care law comes before the U.S. Supreme Court Monday.

The court will hear a challenge by attorneys general representing 26 states who argue that the health care law violates the Constitution and tramples on individual liberties by requiring nearly all Americans to buy health insurance. Over three days, the nine justices will hear six hours of oral arguments, the most the court has scheduled since the 1960s.

The law — derisively labeled “Obamacare” — seeks to extend medical insurance to millions of Americans who do not have any. It has become a rallying point for conservatives who claim the changes will lead to bureaucrats replacing doctors in medical decision-making, and that the quality of health care will diminish.

The principal challenge before the court is the constitutionality of the legal requirement that almost every American must buy health insurance. Opponents of the requirement say Congress lacks the authority to force Americans to buy insurance. The Obama administration has argued that Congress has the authority, under the Constitution. This case comes before a divided bench made up of five justices appointed by Republican presidents and the rest appointed by Democrats.

Source

 

[Polk]

Public funding for abortions is not allowed under those rules:

(e) Prohibition on the use of Federal funds.

(1) If a Qualified Health Plan provides coverage of services described in paragraph (d)(1) of this section [Abortions for which public funding is prohibited], the QHP issuer must not use any amount attributable to any of the following for the purposes of paying for such services:

(i) The credit under section 36B of the Code and the amount (if any) of the advance payment of the credit under section 1412 of the Affordable Care Act;
(ii) Any cost-sharing reduction under section 1402 of the Affordable Care Act and the amount (if any) of the advance payments of the reduction under section 1412 of the Affordable Care Act.​

The public subsidies are explicitly forbidden from paying for abortions.

Insurers offering abortion coverage are required to set up separate allocation accounts funded solely by unsubsidized premiums from enrollees--only that money can be used to fund abortions. No public money gets into the allocation accounts. The payments to those allocation counts are required to be actuarially sound: "The QHP issuer must estimate the basic per enrollee, per month cost, determined on an average actuarial basis, for including [abortion] coverage." They're self-contained and fully funded by private premiums.

Taxpayer money isn't used to fund abortions.

Damn facts getting in the way.