Taxing those who make money

[The Rabbi]

[When George Bush enacted an across the board tax cut, he didn't have to refer to it as a "Net" cut in taxes. Because a "Net" cut in taxes is a dishonest way of trying to make a political point.

Obama tax cuts in the stimulus package:

Tax cuts for individuals
Total: $237 billion

$116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[27]
$70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[27]
$15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
$14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
$6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[39]
$4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
$4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
$4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
$1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.
[edit] Tax cuts for companies
Total: $51 billion

$15 billion: Allowing companies to use current losses to offset profits made in the previous five years, instead of two, making them eligible for tax refunds.
$13 billion: to extend tax credits for renewable energy production (until 2014).
$11 billion: Government contractors: Repeal a law that takes effect in 2012, requiring government agencies to withhold three percent of payments to contractors to help ensure they pay their tax bills. Repealing the law would cost $11 billion over 10 years, in part because the government could not earn interest by holding the money throughout the year.
$7 billion: Repeal bank credit: Repeal a Treasury provision that allowed firms that buy money-losing banks to use more of the losses as tax credits to offset the profits of the merged banks for tax purposes. The change would increase taxes on the merged banks by $7 billion over 10 years.
$5 billion: Bonus depreciation which extends a provision allowing businesses buying equipment such as computers to speed up its depreciation through 2009.

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Feel free to post all of Obama's tax increases.

You can look at that list and see the problem right there. Tax cuts that last for one year. Tax cuts that are nothing more than transfer payments. Tax cuts that sap future demand for present demand.
And you should bother reading what you post because there's a big ole tax increase in the second to last paragraph.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Obviously yu cant tax people who dont make money. They dont have it.
But your point is good. Taxes set up incentives. And if your incentives punish productive people then they will stop being productive.
This isn't terribly complicated. But you would think the current administration would have realized this by now.

The current administration's tax policy has been a net cut in taxes. What the FUCK are you jabbering about?

No, what the fuck are YOU jabbering about? This administration has raised taxes, and proposes even more tax increases.
And whatever taxes they have cut are not serving to make anyone more productive, or to change the incentive to save and invest--unless the change is to discourage them.

Your say-so is useless. Why don't you go ahead and prove that this administration has raised more taxes than it has cut?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[When George Bush enacted an across the board tax cut, he didn't have to refer to it as a "Net" cut in taxes. Because a "Net" cut in taxes is a dishonest way of trying to make a political point.

Obama tax cuts in the stimulus package:

Tax cuts for individuals
Total: $237 billion

$116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[27]
$70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[27]
$15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
$14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
$6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[39]
$4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
$4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
$4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
$1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.
[edit] Tax cuts for companies
Total: $51 billion

$15 billion: Allowing companies to use current losses to offset profits made in the previous five years, instead of two, making them eligible for tax refunds.
$13 billion: to extend tax credits for renewable energy production (until 2014).
$11 billion: Government contractors: Repeal a law that takes effect in 2012, requiring government agencies to withhold three percent of payments to contractors to help ensure they pay their tax bills. Repealing the law would cost $11 billion over 10 years, in part because the government could not earn interest by holding the money throughout the year.
$7 billion: Repeal bank credit: Repeal a Treasury provision that allowed firms that buy money-losing banks to use more of the losses as tax credits to offset the profits of the merged banks for tax purposes. The change would increase taxes on the merged banks by $7 billion over 10 years.
$5 billion: Bonus depreciation which extends a provision allowing businesses buying equipment such as computers to speed up its depreciation through 2009.

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Feel free to post all of Obama's tax increases.

You can look at that list and see the problem right there. Tax cuts that last for one year. Tax cuts that are nothing more than transfer payments. Tax cuts that sap future demand for present demand.
And you should bother reading what you post because there's a big ole tax increase in the second to last paragraph.

Some day when you have nothing better to do you should get off your mental ass and go look at how much revenue loss from Obama tax cuts that the CBO included in its estimate of the cost of the stimulus package.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Who benefits the most from taxing those who work for their money? How will Americans work hard to produce wealth if they are going to loss nearly half their money every April 15th? Moreover, why?

everybody who makes money gets taxed. and who benefits? Every member of this country with a secure nation, secure gov't, good infrastructure, an educated and skilled workforce allowing the companies to succeed and make money to pay their employees.

Why do people ignore that?

 

[DiamondDave]

Who benefits the most from taxing those who work for their money? How will Americans work hard to produce wealth if they are going to loss nearly half their money every April 15th? Moreover, why?

everybody who makes money gets taxed. and who benefits? Every member of this country with a secure nation, secure gov't, good infrastructure, an educated and skilled workforce allowing the companies to succeed and make money to pay their employees.

Why do people ignore that?

But only SOME get income taxed.. and some get taxed more than others...

Some 'equal' treatment under government and law, eh?

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama tax cuts in the stimulus package:

Tax cuts for individuals
Total: $237 billion

$116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[27]
$70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[27]
$15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
$14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
$6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[39]
$4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
$4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
$4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
$1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.
[edit] Tax cuts for companies
Total: $51 billion

$15 billion: Allowing companies to use current losses to offset profits made in the previous five years, instead of two, making them eligible for tax refunds.
$13 billion: to extend tax credits for renewable energy production (until 2014).
$11 billion: Government contractors: Repeal a law that takes effect in 2012, requiring government agencies to withhold three percent of payments to contractors to help ensure they pay their tax bills. Repealing the law would cost $11 billion over 10 years, in part because the government could not earn interest by holding the money throughout the year.
$7 billion: Repeal bank credit: Repeal a Treasury provision that allowed firms that buy money-losing banks to use more of the losses as tax credits to offset the profits of the merged banks for tax purposes. The change would increase taxes on the merged banks by $7 billion over 10 years.
$5 billion: Bonus depreciation which extends a provision allowing businesses buying equipment such as computers to speed up its depreciation through 2009.

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Feel free to post all of Obama's tax increases.

You can look at that list and see the problem right there. Tax cuts that last for one year. Tax cuts that are nothing more than transfer payments. Tax cuts that sap future demand for present demand.
And you should bother reading what you post because there's a big ole tax increase in the second to last paragraph.

Some day when you have nothing better to do you should get off your mental ass and go look at how much revenue loss from Obama tax cuts that the CBO included in its estimate of the cost of the stimulus package.

Qhy would I want to do that? The CBO is notoriously untrustworthy, having scored the Bush dividend cuts as costing the gov't money when in fact it brought in far more than the old tax had.
But what does that have to do with the claim that Obama's tax cuts are worthless?

 

[editec]

Who benefits the most from taxing those who work for their money? How will Americans work hard to produce wealth if they are going to loss nearly half their money every April 15th? Moreover, why?

I think they tried taxing people with no money and found it mostly a waste of time.

Our tax system is screwed up though, without doubt.

Mostly it's the most productive people (the upper middle class) who are getting the biggest screwing.

Most of the middle and lower classes no longer make enough money to pay income taxes, since 15% of the salaries are already going into medicade and social security.

And since the billionaires own government, it's the people without such power that congress hits up for taxes.

We see this happening right now when Obama is talking about rasing the taxes on people making more than $250 K.

That's a hell of a lot of annual income, of courswe, but they're not exactly the superrich.

If you're one of those people who make a damned fine living and your tired of paying more than you fair share of taxes, I can't blame you.

I can only point out that you are paying more taxes so the superrich don't have to.

 

[Care4all]

Who benefits the most from taxing those who work for their money? How will Americans work hard to produce wealth if they are going to loss nearly half their money every April 15th? Moreover, why?

okkkkkkkkk, let's just tax the people WHO HAVE NO MONEY!

also, PROVE they pay 50% in Federal taxes.... state taxes we have nothing to do with, that is up to their own states and state citizens....

The effective federal income tax that those in the top 1% pay is 19% is what i last read.

 

[MIPS]

Who benefits the most from taxing those who work for their money? How will Americans work hard to produce wealth if they are going to loss nearly half their money every April 15th? Moreover, why?

okkkkkkkkk, let's just tax the people WHO HAVE NO MONEY!

Newsflash, we already do, check the cumulative operating deficits and our unfunded liabilities and then ask your children how much of their share they can pony up RIGHT NOW.

That's just one aspect, the poor (people that have little money) are hit with a slew of consumption taxes not the least of which is courtesy of printing presses in the form of inflation.

So much for our "benign" federal government, huh?

 

[Dr Gregg]

Who benefits the most from taxing those who work for their money? How will Americans work hard to produce wealth if they are going to loss nearly half their money every April 15th? Moreover, why?

okkkkkkkkk, let's just tax the people WHO HAVE NO MONEY!

also, PROVE they pay 50% in Federal taxes.... state taxes we have nothing to do with, that is up to their own states and state citizens....

The effective federal income tax that those in the top 1% pay is 19% is what i last read.

But, how is the millionaire supposed to live on only 10 million a year when he is taxed on his 20 million dollar income? How can he afford that private island in the south pacific, his 10 luxury cars and 5 million dollar homes? The poor rich, they suffer so much in this country

 

[NYcarbineer]

You can look at that list and see the problem right there. Tax cuts that last for one year. Tax cuts that are nothing more than transfer payments. Tax cuts that sap future demand for present demand.
And you should bother reading what you post because there's a big ole tax increase in the second to last paragraph.

Some day when you have nothing better to do you should get off your mental ass and go look at how much revenue loss from Obama tax cuts that the CBO included in its estimate of the cost of the stimulus package.

Qhy would I want to do that? The CBO is notoriously untrustworthy, having scored the Bush dividend cuts as costing the gov't money when in fact it brought in far more than the old tax had.
But what does that have to do with the claim that Obama's tax cuts are worthless?

Bush's tax cuts resulted in lower revenues.

 

[Mr Natural]

Who benefits the most from taxing those who work for their money? How will Americans work hard to produce wealth if they are going to loss nearly half their money every April 15th? Moreover, why?

okkkkkkkkk, let's just tax the people WHO HAVE NO MONEY!

also, PROVE they pay 50% in Federal taxes.... state taxes we have nothing to do with, that is up to their own states and state citizens....

The effective federal income tax that those in the top 1% pay is 19% is what i last read.

But, how is the millionaire supposed to live on only 10 million a year when he is taxed on his 20 million dollar income? How can he afford that private island in the south pacific, his 10 luxury cars and 5 million dollar homes? The poor rich, they suffer so much in this country

And yet you never hear them complaining. And why should they when they have their legions of dumbass, middle-class, worker bee stooges to do it for them?

 

[DiamondDave]

Who benefits the most from taxing those who work for their money? How will Americans work hard to produce wealth if they are going to loss nearly half their money every April 15th? Moreover, why?

okkkkkkkkk, let's just tax the people WHO HAVE NO MONEY!

also, PROVE they pay 50% in Federal taxes.... state taxes we have nothing to do with, that is up to their own states and state citizens....

The effective federal income tax that those in the top 1% pay is 19% is what i last read.

But, how is the millionaire supposed to live on only 10 million a year when he is taxed on his 20 million dollar income? How can he afford that private island in the south pacific, his 10 luxury cars and 5 million dollar homes? The poor rich, they suffer so much in this country

So what is the max one is supposed to make?? What gives you or anyone else the right to say they make enough? What gives government or you the right to say that your share towards the running of the government needs to be paid by someone else?

It is not about the rich 'suffering', but it is indeed about equal treatment by government and under the law...

 

[MIPS]

Some day when you have nothing better to do you should get off your mental ass and go look at how much revenue loss from Obama tax cuts that the CBO included in its estimate of the cost of the stimulus package.

Qhy would I want to do that? The CBO is notoriously untrustworthy, having scored the Bush dividend cuts as costing the gov't money when in fact it brought in far more than the old tax had.
But what does that have to do with the claim that Obama's tax cuts are worthless?

Bush's tax cuts resulted in lower revenues.

As usual, you're wrong.

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/js3039.htm

 

[uscitizen]

Well taxing those who make money makes more sense than taxing those who do not make money.

 

[DiamondDave]

Well taxing those who make money makes more sense than taxing those who do not make money.

you make no income.. you pay no income taxes... but for every dollar you earn and every dollar I earn, we should pay the exact same % in taxes, if you do indeed believe in equal treatment by government under the law...

But the mantra of selective equality is strong in the left wingers... true equality when it benefits them.... but when equal treatment does not benefit them, THEN it is OK to put in a punishment system so that they do get the benefit at the expense of someone else

 

[Care4all]

Well taxing those who make money makes more sense than taxing those who do not make money.

you make no income.. you pay no income taxes... but for every dollar you earn and every dollar I earn, we should pay the exact same % in taxes, if you do indeed believe in equal treatment by government under the law...

But the mantra of selective equality is strong in the left wingers... true equality when it benefits them.... but when equal treatment does not benefit them, THEN it is OK to put in a punishment system so that they do get the benefit at the expense of someone else

But does that flat tax include SS obligation too Dave? and taking away all the other taxes out there that are regressive such as gas taxes and liquor taxes and cigarette taxes....all to pay the federal spending?

 

[DiamondDave]

Well taxing those who make money makes more sense than taxing those who do not make money.

you make no income.. you pay no income taxes... but for every dollar you earn and every dollar I earn, we should pay the exact same % in taxes, if you do indeed believe in equal treatment by government under the law...

But the mantra of selective equality is strong in the left wingers... true equality when it benefits them.... but when equal treatment does not benefit them, THEN it is OK to put in a punishment system so that they do get the benefit at the expense of someone else

But does that flat tax include SS obligation too Dave? and taking away all the other taxes out there that are regressive such as gas taxes and liquor taxes and cigarette taxes....all to pay the federal spending?

Funny.. you did not have me stating that there should be no excise taxes on gas or whatever... but those are voluntary taxes on consumption... at flat rate no matter if you earn $5 an hour or $5K an hour... I think improving the federal income tax system in an effort to eliminate 'other taxes' would be a whole other conversation

As for SS.. I wish there were an easier way out of the bastard of a system... and that is a whole other can of worms on what it would take to get our retirement investment out of government's hands..


But in terms of income taxes... as stated so many times, I am for equal % taxation.. I.E. equal treatment under the law by government

 

[Care4all]

you make no income.. you pay no income taxes... but for every dollar you earn and every dollar I earn, we should pay the exact same % in taxes, if you do indeed believe in equal treatment by government under the law...

But the mantra of selective equality is strong in the left wingers... true equality when it benefits them.... but when equal treatment does not benefit them, THEN it is OK to put in a punishment system so that they do get the benefit at the expense of someone else

But does that flat tax include SS obligation too Dave? and taking away all the other taxes out there that are regressive such as gas taxes and liquor taxes and cigarette taxes....all to pay the federal spending?

Funny.. you did not have me stating that there should be no excise taxes on gas or whatever... but those are voluntary taxes on consumption... at flat rate no matter if you earn $5 an hour or $5K an hour... I think improving the federal income tax system in an effort to eliminate 'other taxes' would be a whole other conversation

As for SS.. I wish there were an easier way out of the bastard of a system... and that is a whole other can of worms on what it would take to get our retirement investment out of government's hands..


But in terms of income taxes... as stated so many times, I am for equal % taxation.. I.E. equal treatment under the law by government

Then I disagree with your proposal....because it would put more obligation as a percentage of income on those who have the least.

I would agree to a flat tax, IF all federal taxes were included in it and excise taxes were killed...

And if all federal taxes collected, such as social security and medicare were also included in the flat tax, and they were dropped as payroll tax....otherwise, as said, federal taxes as a percentage would be higher on those with less income than those with the most income....

How about capital gains and dividend taxes....will those be separated as well and at a lower rate than what you propose with a flat income tax?

This is MUCH more complicated.....dave, than one would think....imo.

 

[uscitizen]

But does that flat tax include SS obligation too Dave? and taking away all the other taxes out there that are regressive such as gas taxes and liquor taxes and cigarette taxes....all to pay the federal spending?

Funny.. you did not have me stating that there should be no excise taxes on gas or whatever... but those are voluntary taxes on consumption... at flat rate no matter if you earn $5 an hour or $5K an hour... I think improving the federal income tax system in an effort to eliminate 'other taxes' would be a whole other conversation

As for SS.. I wish there were an easier way out of the bastard of a system... and that is a whole other can of worms on what it would take to get our retirement investment out of government's hands..


But in terms of income taxes... as stated so many times, I am for equal % taxation.. I.E. equal treatment under the law by government

Then I disagree with your proposal....because it would put more obligation as a percentage of income on those who have the least.

I would agree to a flat tax, IF all federal taxes were included in it and excise taxes were killed...

And if all federal taxes collected, such as social security and medicare were also included in the flat tax, and they were dropped as payroll tax....otherwise, as said, federal taxes as a percentage would be higher on those with less income than those with the most income....

How about capital gains and dividend taxes....will those be separated as well and at a lower rate than what you propose with a flat income tax?

This is MUCH more complicated.....dave, than one would think....imo.

Yep, one tax for all things federal.