Taxing Millionaires and Billionaires

[DontBeStupid]

Yeah, that's fair. But we don't have a flat tax today, it's progressive. The guys making $200k are expected to pay a higher rate due to the increase in earnings, and you lib/dems want to increase it even more. So at $200k you're going to pay $70k, not $60k, and the lib/dems want to raise it even higher to $80k!

So at $100k I get to keep $80k, but you at $200k keep only $120k. You got a raise of $100k but your take home was only an extra $40k, how fair is that?

Your ignorance on the subject has left me speechless.

 

[edthecynic]

A flat tax should be down near 15-20% tops IMO

Fine. Make it 20%. It still wouldn't change the problem the original poster is crying over.

Example: Say you and I both make $100K and both pay 20% in taxes. That's $20K each in taxes for a total of $40K. We both pay 50% of the total tax and we both make 50% of the total income. Nice and fair.

Now, I get a promotion and start making $200K. Well now, I pay $40K in taxes and you pay $20K in taxes. Total taxes are $60K of which I pay 67%! According to conservatives, and the OP, I am now WAY over taxed and deserve a much needed tax break. Right? That's fair, right?

Yeah, that's fair. But we don't have a flat tax today, it's progressive. The guys making $200k are expected to pay a higher rate due to the increase in earnings, and you lib/dems want to increase it even more. So at $200k you're going to pay $70k, not $60k, and the lib/dems want to raise it even higher to $80k!

So at $100k I get to keep $80k, but you at $200k keep only $120k. You got a raise of $100k but your take home was only an extra $40k, how fair is that?

Gee, what a surprise, his point went completely over your head. NOT!

The point was the complete stupidity of using the % of the population to determine what is a fair tax rate!!!! You both are taxed at the same 20% rate, but 50% of the population pays 67% of the taxes and the other 50% pays 33% of the taxes. According to the OP that is unfair, but what is unfair about paying the same tax rate???

Obviously anyone using population numbers to determine the fairness of the tax rates is deliberately trying to mislead. But even when exposed to the fact that their sources are deliberately trying to mislead them, CON$ will still swallow their bullshit whole.

 

[Wiseacre]

" The point was the complete stupidity of using the % of the population to determine what is a fair tax rate!!!! You both are taxed at the same 20% rate, but 50% of the population pays 67% of the taxes and the other 50% pays 33% of the taxes. According to the OP that is unfair, but what is unfair about paying the same tax rate??? "


But we're not taxed at the same rate in today's tax code, the $200k person pays a higher rate and lib/dems want to raise it even more. The above paragraph from Cynic missed the whole point, which is that the guys making $200k and up are already paying a lot more than their fair share.

 

[DontBeStupid]

the guys making $200k and up are already paying a lot more than their fair share.

But you haven't shown that. You used percentage of population and percentage of tax money and that's completely pointless!

If you want to show that the over $200K crowd is overtaxed, then you need to compare their percentage of income with the TOTAL taxes collected and the percentages for each group of THAT total.

I doubt you'll do it though, since it would include payroll taxes, and the rich get off very, very easy on those.

 

[edthecynic]

" The point was the complete stupidity of using the % of the population to determine what is a fair tax rate!!!! You both are taxed at the same 20% rate, but 50% of the population pays 67% of the taxes and the other 50% pays 33% of the taxes. According to the OP that is unfair, but what is unfair about paying the same tax rate??? "


But we're not taxed at the same rate in today's tax code, the $200k person pays a higher rate and lib/dems want to raise it even more. The above paragraph from Cynic missed the whole point, which is that the guys making $200k and up are already paying a lot more than their fair share.

The example given to you was an oversimplified theoretical tax system to show the complete stupidity of using population numbers to determine what tax rate is fair. It was never intended to reflect out extremely complicated tax code, whose tax rates are completely meaningless due to deductions and loopholes.

You just don't want to admit that you got snookered by the source cited in the OP!!!!

 

[edthecynic]

the guys making $200k and up are already paying a lot more than their fair share.

But you haven't shown that. You used percentage of population and percentage of tax money and that's completely pointless!

If you want to show that the over $200K crowd is overtaxed, then you need to compare their percentage of income with the TOTAL taxes collected and the percentages for each group of THAT total.

I doubt you'll do it though, since it would include payroll taxes, and the rich get off very, very easy on those.

It would also have to include increases in capital gains, the major source of wealth of the truly rich, which grow tax free year after year like an IRA but without any penalties, and do not get taxed until "realized."

 

[DontBeStupid]

the guys making $200k and up are already paying a lot more than their fair share.

But you haven't shown that. You used percentage of population and percentage of tax money and that's completely pointless!

If you want to show that the over $200K crowd is overtaxed, then you need to compare their percentage of income with the TOTAL taxes collected and the percentages for each group of THAT total.

I doubt you'll do it though, since it would include payroll taxes, and the rich get off very, very easy on those.

It would also have to include increases in capital gains, the major source of wealth of the truly rich, which grow tax free year after year like an IRA but without any penalties, and do not get taxed until "realized."

Exactly! It's really all about the big picture and not just cherry-picking certain items.

And for the OP, I could see a time when you would want to look at percentage of the population vs income vs taxation. For example, the bottom 47% pay about 6% of total taxes but make 3% of total income. We might say that's fair on taxation, but is that a fair income distribution?

 

[Wiseacre]

No doubt you clowns will ignore the data or change the subject, but here you go.


Unbalanced Obama wants more taxes for more spending, not for debt reduction. « InvestmentWatch – The best source of news, analysis, and intelligent discussion

" The richest 1 percent of Americans earn 20 percent of all income in America but pay 38 percent of income taxes. The top 5 percent earn slightly more than one-third of U.S. income while paying nearly 59 percent of income taxes. At the same time, roughly half of Americans pay no federal income tax. One might suggest, therefore, that the wealthy already pay their fair share, and then some. "

 

[boedicca]

Fine. Make it 20%. It still wouldn't change the problem the original poster is crying over.

Example: Say you and I both make $100K and both pay 20% in taxes. That's $20K each in taxes for a total of $40K. We both pay 50% of the total tax and we both make 50% of the total income. Nice and fair.

Now, I get a promotion and start making $200K. Well now, I pay $40K in taxes and you pay $20K in taxes. Total taxes are $60K of which I pay 67%! According to conservatives, and the OP, I am now WAY over taxed and deserve a much needed tax break. Right? That's fair, right?

Yeah, that's fair. But we don't have a flat tax today, it's progressive. The guys making $200k are expected to pay a higher rate due to the increase in earnings, and you lib/dems want to increase it even more. So at $200k you're going to pay $70k, not $60k, and the lib/dems want to raise it even higher to $80k!

So at $100k I get to keep $80k, but you at $200k keep only $120k. You got a raise of $100k but your take home was only an extra $40k, how fair is that?

Except the progressive tax is nowhere as "progressive" as you make it out to be.
The top 20%, averaging 200+k, pay an overall 14.1% income tax rate.
The top 10%, averaging 300+k, pay an overall 16.0% income tax rate.
The top 5%, averaging 500+k, pay an overall 17.6% income tax rate.
The top 1%, averaging 1.5+m, pay an overall 19.4% income tax rate.

Your stats are bogus. The top 1% of tax payers have an average tax rate of over 23%.

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

 

[Uncensored2008]

Except the progressive tax is nowhere as "progressive" as you make it out to be.
The top 20%, averaging 200+k, pay an overall 14.1% income tax rate.
The top 10%, averaging 300+k, pay an overall 16.0% income tax rate.
The top 5%, averaging 500+k, pay an overall 17.6% income tax rate.
The top 1%, averaging 1.5+m, pay an overall 19.4% income tax rate.

Making statistics up out of thin air again, edtheliar?

 

[boedicca]

There's a reason why Obama has defined millionaire-billionaire as making $200K per year:

Real millionaires and billionaires make up less than 1/10 of a percent of the population. Their aggregate income in not enough to fund the Statist Utopia of the far left. Hence, the middle class who have managed to create relatively self-sufficient lives for themselves are the true targets.

 

[DiamondDave]

wow... edtheass using bogus statistics?? Say it ain't so

 

[edthecynic]

Yeah, that's fair. But we don't have a flat tax today, it's progressive. The guys making $200k are expected to pay a higher rate due to the increase in earnings, and you lib/dems want to increase it even more. So at $200k you're going to pay $70k, not $60k, and the lib/dems want to raise it even higher to $80k!

So at $100k I get to keep $80k, but you at $200k keep only $120k. You got a raise of $100k but your take home was only an extra $40k, how fair is that?

Except the progressive tax is nowhere as "progressive" as you make it out to be.
The top 20%, averaging 200+k, pay an overall 14.1% income tax rate.
The top 10%, averaging 300+k, pay an overall 16.0% income tax rate.
The top 5%, averaging 500+k, pay an overall 17.6% income tax rate.
The top 1%, averaging 1.5+m, pay an overall 19.4% income tax rate.

Your stats are bogus. The top 1% of tax payers have an average tax rate of over 23%.

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

My stats came from here, page 6:

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I trust the CBO over the right wing tax foundation.