Taxes-how many are self employed?

[Ravi]

More wisdom from the "BIg Book of Worn-Out Investing Cliches."

It might be a cliche but it is true.

Here we have the OP claiming all his life savings are in one basket (his own ability to turn a profit) and claiming that somehow because Obama is president his "businesses" have no chance of success.

He's either a fool or a liar.

No, it's not true.
Like most things, it's more complicated. Diversification is a substitute for knowledge. Most people cannot learn everything there is about a publicly traded company to know how they are doing. So they diversify.
In the case of the entrepreneur, he knows more or less everything there is to know about his company and its market. So he eliminates a lot of risk just through knowledge.
In fact the OP has separate discrete businesses so he is diversified. His complaint, justly, is that the gov'ts new mandates and taxes make it that much harder for an entriepreneur to operate a company succesfully. And he is right. Ijust had pretty much this conversation with a friend who owns a very large flower nursery, with over 70 employees.

He's not diversified if everything depends on his ability. But you go ahead and keep believing that.

 

[Ravi]

More wisdom from the "BIg Book of Worn-Out Investing Cliches."

It might be a cliche but it is true.

Here we have the OP claiming all his life savings are in one basket (his own ability to turn a profit) and claiming that somehow because Obama is president his "businesses" have no chance of success.

He's either a fool or a liar.

Again let me explain something that you apparently have no concept of. When a new administration takes office and starts implimenting their ideological policies, especially the policies toward business in general, you know within a fairly short period of time, right or left, if that administration is "business friendly" or not. The indicators are often new tax codes, new EPA reg's (or the lack thereof), new OSHA regs, changes in insurance structure or requirements, and just the increase or reduction of red tape and/or contact required with regulatory agencies. Believe you me, we've already felt the bite of the current administrations "teeth" in creating a hostile environment for small business. Hell, we all new when the "El Presidente" held his first "job summit", which was supposed to be focused on small business, that he was AGAINST us because "oops!" he forgot to invite the two largest advocates for small business, the NFIB and the Chamber! We knew then that we'de better start getting used bending over and guess what?? It's been downhill ever since, so do yourself a favor and stop talking because the more you do, the dumber you sound.

The new administration presided over many tax breaks for small business in 2009 and I imagine more are to come. But keep right on making things up.

Small Business Tax Breaks in the Stimulus Bill

 

[Ravi]

It might be a cliche but it is true.

Here we have the OP claiming all his life savings are in one basket (his own ability to turn a profit) and claiming that somehow because Obama is president his "businesses" have no chance of success.

He's either a fool or a liar.

Ravi, you are the fucking liar. I AM the one that has always blasted everyone here for all the lies about Obama and the false internet myths and rumors about him.
I disagree with Obama on some issues but find him and his family to be fine and decent people. I get very angry and have fought the rumors against him here.
In fact, all of my businesses have thrived under Obama. His policies so far have not caused any downturn in my business.
However, capital gains tax raises will affect everyone with capital in the market.
Only a fool would not acknowledge that fact.

if you own a small business, you should not pay capital gains tax. fire your tax guy.

Yep. Capital gains taxes don't affect the business, they affect the owner's profit.

 

[Douger]

How many are self employed and have their life savings at risk daily running their businesses?
How much do you have at risk in your business?
I have $500,000.00 in savings invested in one of my businesses and $300,000.00 in another. This represents 95% of my life savings and I am 55. Add in another $225,000.00 in loans and I have over a million bucks AT RISK.
I will explain the tax implications later and how they dramatically affect the lifeblood of this country, the small business person.

I've been self employed since 1977.
I left the fallen empire in 2004/2005/back and forth.I bought my first NON USA farm in 1993.I didn't have the money to run from the Empire then, but I should have done it anyway.
I have zero assets in US dollars or companies. I had Euros I purchased at $1.17 and sold at $1.47. The Euro is finished, just like the dollar.
My investments are in farm land and commodities in South America.
I recommend you to get the hell out since your portfolio seems quite impressive. Just go. Anywhere.

I hauled ass from close to 400 grand a year in The Great Satan.
I'm now rather frugal. The right way to live.
Gonna slaughter a goat today ! Wanna come for supper ?

 

[editec]

How many are self employed and have their life savings at risk daily running their businesses?
How much do you have at risk in your business?
I have $500,000.00 in savings invested in one of my businesses and $300,000.00 in another. This represents 95% of my life savings and I am 55. Add in another $225,000.00 in loans and I have over a million bucks AT RISK.
I will explain the tax implications later and how they dramatically affect the lifeblood of this country, the small business person.

Small businessmen like yourself are the life's blood of this economy.

You are the guys employing 88% of the working population.

You are the guys who pay most of the taxes, so the superrich corporations don't have to.

And you are the guys who are most likely to be hurt when things go south, too.

You are where most American workers would like to be, but your position is anything but enviable.

RESPECT, dude

 

[Gadawg73]

Ravi, you are the fucking liar. I AM the one that has always blasted everyone here for all the lies about Obama and the false internet myths and rumors about him.
I disagree with Obama on some issues but find him and his family to be fine and decent people. I get very angry and have fought the rumors against him here.
In fact, all of my businesses have thrived under Obama. His policies so far have not caused any downturn in my business.
However, capital gains tax raises will affect everyone with capital in the market.
Only a fool would not acknowledge that fact.

if you own a small business, you should not pay capital gains tax. fire your tax guy.

Yep. Capital gains taxes don't affect the business, they affect the owner's profit.

The owner IS the business.
How come you do not get that?
If my business owns a building and then sells it what kind of tax does the business pay?
Capital gains tax. If the capital gains tax goes from 15% toa proposed 20% as Obama wants THAT IS A 33% RISE IN TAXES.
Explain how that helps small business.

 

[antagon]

if you own a small business, you should not pay capital gains tax. fire your tax guy.

Yep. Capital gains taxes don't affect the business, they affect the owner's profit.

The owner IS the business.
How come you do not get that?
If my business owns a building and then sells it what kind of tax does the business pay?
Capital gains tax. If the capital gains tax goes from 15% toa proposed 20% as Obama wants THAT IS A 33% RISE IN TAXES.
Explain how that helps small business.

i would turn ravi's premise on it's head: the business' income is taxed by way of capital gains, and for that reason, its expensibility would be pressed against this liability. the owner is clumsy if they, in turn, pay capital gains again when they try to take income out.

as to the conditions of such a trust constituting some common ground with most small businesses, i call bullshit. commerce, rather than capital gains accounts for the vast majority of income in US small businesses, particularly those which employ and consume the most in our economy. better this capital gains niche than where most small businesses claim their income.

the premises you've attached to tax in an economy are upside-down, gadawg. with expensibility at play, it simply cant be said that taxes target private investment dollars, can it?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Are you serious? Even when a new corporation is created large suppliers require, among other things "personal guarantees." Small suppliers are sometimes ignorant of the risks they are taking when supplying to a corporation, but are you suggesting that an honest man should create a corporation with an eye towards using it to dodge personal responsibility for indebtedness, and have that dodge especially hurt the small business owner?

What the heck does honesty have to do with it? A prudent businessman will set up an LLC so that if someone slips and falls in his store the lawyers don't take his house and his retirement. It much more about protecting yourself from unforeseen liabilities than liabilities you decide to take on to run your business.

Sorry but you are too stupid and ignorant to participate in this discussion.

OK. Then stop talking to me.

The OP is right: He can invest his money in other people's companies (i.e. the stock market) where he has no control over how business decisions are made or he can invest in his own company which he knows intimately.
He is tying up a lot of money in his businesses, which seem diversified, in order to make excellent returns. There is a risk that goes with that which he is obviously aware of. He thinks it's worth it and I can't disagree.

I'm too stupid and ignorant to understand what you're talking about, so I didn't bother to read the above that you wrote.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

How many are self employed and have their life savings at risk daily running their businesses?

? Incorporate, and that won't be a problem.

I own 3 CORPORATIONS!

All a corporation ever is IS AN ENTITY.

Corporations ARE PEOPLE!!

NO bank anywhere loans to a small business corporation. They ALL require a personal guarantee from A PERSON.

And that person has to have resources, equity and THEIR OWN $ in the corporation.

Geez, amazing the myths in society today and how little or nothing Americans know about business, finances and the economy.

OK. So who gives a fuck? What does that have to do with mixing retirement savings with business capital?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You have no clue how hard it is to run a business. My detective agency certainly is no hobby.

If taxes were not so high on small business then I would not have to put so much of my savings into making sure others are employed.

A simple thank you to your employer would be sufficient.

The federal income tax on a small business is the exact same as the tax on any other personal income, quit your baseless whining.

I pay the taxes. People, NOT CORPORATIONS, always pay the taxes.

Why the fuck do you think you should be exempt from taxation? What makes you so fucking special? You think you're better than everyone else?

Please show me where I stated I wanted to be exempt from taxes.
I do not think I am "better than everyone else".
However, I am smarter than YOU.
Wham it zero on set.

Its really the only reasonable conclusion one could draw from your whining. You either think you are entitled to pay no taxes - or that you shouldn't have to pay as much as someone else who makes the same amount but is on a payroll.

 

[Ravi]

if you own a small business, you should not pay capital gains tax. fire your tax guy.

Yep. Capital gains taxes don't affect the business, they affect the owner's profit.

The owner IS the business.
How come you do not get that?
If my business owns a building and then sells it what kind of tax does the business pay?
Capital gains tax. If the capital gains tax goes from 15% toa proposed 20% as Obama wants THAT IS A 33% RISE IN TAXES.
Explain how that helps small business.

You've gotten a break on capital gains tax and now it will be rolled back to 20% and you're crying...grow the fuck up, income tax is higher than your capital gains tax.

I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. I know that as a business owner you get more tax breaks than anyone that is an employee.

boo fucking hoo

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You are obviously "wealthy" and your wealth needs to be redistributed and spread around.

I'm not sure how that works. There is no federal tax on wealth until you die (the estate tax). There is a federal tax on income. That's a huge difference.

taxing income beyond deductions is taxing wealth for all intents and purposes. spreading that around like the man said, is the basis of modern, developed economies... so you both know how that works.

No, its taxing income. Income does not always translate to wealth. If I earn $250,000 and buy a house - that is income translating to wealth - if I earn $250,000 and blow it on booze and hookers - that is income not translating to wealth.

 

[Mr Natural]

Yep. Capital gains taxes don't affect the business, they affect the owner's profit.

The owner IS the business.
How come you do not get that?
If my business owns a building and then sells it what kind of tax does the business pay?
Capital gains tax. If the capital gains tax goes from 15% toa proposed 20% as Obama wants THAT IS A 33% RISE IN TAXES.
Explain how that helps small business.

You've gotten a break on capital gains tax and now it will be rolled back to 20% and you're crying...grow the fuck up, income tax is higher than your capital gains tax.

I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. I know that as a business owner you get more tax breaks than anyone that is an employee.

boo fucking hoo

Boo fucking hoo indeed.

If a person a has a business, and that business is doing well that taxation is the biggest concern, then that person is doing very well for himself and should be thankful for the good fortune in life.

Good God, I hate fucking whiners.

 

[antagon]

plain ol' money is wealth, tuba.

 

[Gadawg73]

The owner IS the business.
How come you do not get that?
If my business owns a building and then sells it what kind of tax does the business pay?
Capital gains tax. If the capital gains tax goes from 15% toa proposed 20% as Obama wants THAT IS A 33% RISE IN TAXES.
Explain how that helps small business.

You've gotten a break on capital gains tax and now it will be rolled back to 20% and you're crying...grow the fuck up, income tax is higher than your capital gains tax.

I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. I know that as a business owner you get more tax breaks than anyone that is an employee.

boo fucking hoo

Boo fucking hoo indeed.

If a person a has a business, and that business is doing well that taxation is the biggest concern, then that person is doing very well for himself and should be thankful for the good fortune in life.

Good God, I hate fucking whiners.

"Good fortune in life" is earned from 70 hour weeks.
One day, hopefully when it is not TOO LATE, you folks will learn that wealth and "good fortune in life" IS EARNED, not to be redistributed.

 

[Gadawg73]

? Incorporate, and that won't be a problem.

I own 3 CORPORATIONS!

All a corporation ever is IS AN ENTITY.

Corporations ARE PEOPLE!!

NO bank anywhere loans to a small business corporation. They ALL require a personal guarantee from A PERSON.

And that person has to have resources, equity and THEIR OWN $ in the corporation.

Geez, amazing the myths in society today and how little or nothing Americans know about business, finances and the economy.

OK. So who gives a fuck? What does that have to do with mixing retirement savings with business capital?

Which is smarter Einstein?
Having that million in the stock market where it would now be worth 600K after the big bang bubble bust? If Idid that guess what I would have had to have done to get that million?
BORROW IT YOU MORON. Your idea is to leave $ in the market as "retirement savings"lose 40 % of it over the last 3 years, borrow $ and pay $35K a year interest on it.
Or I could hve done this which I did:
Instead of putting that million in 'retirement savings" and losing my ass like you suggest, I put it into my corporations where my ROI and ROE has averaged over 15% a year for 20 years.
If you do not understand how that has saved me near a half million dollars over the last 3 years you are a complete fool.
The public schools need to require basic Econ 101 for all high school seniors.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I own 3 CORPORATIONS!

All a corporation ever is IS AN ENTITY.

Corporations ARE PEOPLE!!

NO bank anywhere loans to a small business corporation. They ALL require a personal guarantee from A PERSON.

And that person has to have resources, equity and THEIR OWN $ in the corporation.

Geez, amazing the myths in society today and how little or nothing Americans know about business, finances and the economy.

OK. So who gives a fuck? What does that have to do with mixing retirement savings with business capital?

Which is smarter Einstein?
Having that million in the stock market where it would now be worth 600K after the big bang bubble bust?

It would be moronic to have 100% of your retirement savings in the stock market at your age.

Instead of putting that million in 'retirement savings" and losing my ass like you suggest, I put it into my corporations where my ROI and ROE has averaged over 15% a year for 20 years.

So you've put all of your retirement into three different corporations, all of which you run. That's not very bright. A few years ago a company called Enron convinced many of its employees to put all their retirement savings in Enron stock. Didn't work out too well.

If you do not understand how that has saved me near a half million dollars over the last 3 years you are a complete fool.

I fail to see why the past 3 years is all that matters.

 

[Mr Natural]

You've gotten a break on capital gains tax and now it will be rolled back to 20% and you're crying...grow the fuck up, income tax is higher than your capital gains tax.

I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. I know that as a business owner you get more tax breaks than anyone that is an employee.

boo fucking hoo

Boo fucking hoo indeed.

If a person a has a business, and that business is doing well that taxation is the biggest concern, then that person is doing very well for himself and should be thankful for the good fortune in life.

Good God, I hate fucking whiners.

"Good fortune in life" is earned from 70 hour weeks.
One day, hopefully when it is not TOO LATE, you folks will learn that wealth and "good fortune in life" IS EARNED, not to be redistributed.

 

[Ravi]

You've gotten a break on capital gains tax and now it will be rolled back to 20% and you're crying...grow the fuck up, income tax is higher than your capital gains tax.

I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. I know that as a business owner you get more tax breaks than anyone that is an employee.

boo fucking hoo

Boo fucking hoo indeed.

If a person a has a business, and that business is doing well that taxation is the biggest concern, then that person is doing very well for himself and should be thankful for the good fortune in life.

Good God, I hate fucking whiners.

"Good fortune in life" is earned from 70 hour weeks.
One day, hopefully when it is not TOO LATE, you folks will learn that wealth and "good fortune in life" IS EARNED, not to be redistributed.

Fall back on pablum, it's all you have left.

 

[CMike]

I have a business too. I am in my third state, and I am soon opening in my fourth.

The amount I paid in taxes for 2009 was more than double my entire income in 2007.


Yanno...I don't know if any of you watch "Kitchen Nighmares".

Some of the owners had hundreds of thousands in debt from their businesses, with their homes tied into the debt.

Owners have lost their homes because they were too far in debt due to their restaurants.

If you lose your job, you have lost your income, hopefuly temporarily, however, when an owner loses his business, and has hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in it, they could easily lose their home, and not be able to get out of it for a long time. Plus, all of their employees are out of work too. The risk is a lot greater.