Taxes and who Really pays

Discussion in 'Economy' started by Bonnie, Dec 6, 2005.

  1. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    December 6, 2005
    Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: Appearances v. Reality
    By Bruce Bartlett

    http://realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-12_6_05_BB.html
     
  2. Max Power
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    Max Power Guest

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    Real clear politics my a$$.
    It ignores the amount of money that rich people make.

    If the top 1% of taxpayers make 20% of the income, and pay 20% of the income taxes, then that's fair, no?
     
  3. Hobbit
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    Hobbit Senior Member

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    Exactly, but everyone knows that the higher brackets pay a higher percentage. If you shoot up a tax bracket, a greater percentage of your income goes to the government. Most people pay an average of 20% of their income in income taxes. Those in the upper tax bracket pay more like 50%.
     
  4. Max Power
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    Max Power Guest

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    Those in the upper bracket can also afford good accountants, and don't have to pay close to what they are "supposed" to.
    But I digress...

    Then why is the author of the article afraid to use these statistics? Does the author's argument fall apart if you do?
     
  5. Hobbit
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    Hobbit Senior Member

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    Despite what is typically accepted as "common knowledge," rich people don't cheat on their taxes. The staff of accountants is needed because of how complicated the return gets when you make a lot of money. Most rich people actually pay over what they're supposed to on purpose, because they know the IRS will come after them, place the burden of proof on them, and charge them a fortune in fees and possibly seize all of their assets. For the average person, you have less than a 1% chance of getting caught cheating on your taxes, but rich people are a huge source of tax income, so they can't get away with it because they get audited all the time.
     
  6. Mr. P
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    Mr. P Senior Member

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    No, not at all fair. I’ve never heard any valid reasons for this line of thinking, maybe you’ll be the first.

    Please explain why you think it’s fair.
     
  7. Max Power
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    Max Power Guest

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    It's referred to as a flat tax, and there's a wealth of knowledge on the internet about it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax
     
  8. Max Power
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    I didn't say they cheat.
    Do you have a link to back up what you're saying?
    The highest tax bracket in the U.S. is 35% I believe, do you have any evidence that people pay more than that?

    And, I'd like to point out that it was George Bush who said
    "the really rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway."

    And, of course, there's this:
    http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/20/news/buffett_tax/
     
  9. Mr. P
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    Mr. P Senior Member

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    Flat tax isn't fair either..but back to your stand on the higher income folks paying more, please explain how that's "fair".
     
  10. LuvRPgrl
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    LuvRPgrl Senior Member

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    NO taxation will ever be fair.

    The only MORAL taxation, is taxation for govt purposes that are absolutely essential.

    All others should be voluntary.

    essentials

    roads
    military
    police
    fire dept
    legal system

    do you realize how effectively these things could be run if we got SS, welfare, education, etc, etc out of the govt trough?

    When you take my money through violence (taxation) and distribute it to others for non needed reasons, take a cut, then you are immoral and it should be criminalized. What is the difference between that and the mafia that extorts money? What of the agency that forces me to pay for business permits, then when I ask, what do I get in return? "Oh, we allow you to operate in our city" OUR CITY? ITS MY FUCKING CITY!!!!!!!!! FUCK YOU you govt employee, you probably dont even live here. EXTORTION!

    One thing many people ignore, is when rich people make more money, or cut their taxes, they re invest it in the economy. I have never been hired by a poor person

    Think of this. If Bill Gates gets a tax cut of 10 billion this year, via MSFT, do you think he is gonna go out and buy a bigger house? car? boat?

    No, his entire life now is engulfed in creating businesses, its his enjoyment, his hobby. He only makes money for the sake of making money, not to have it, spend it or waste it. The ULTRA rich are like that, the rich are like that, the minimally rich are mostly like that, but even if they are now buying yachts with their extra cash from tax breaks, doesnt that help the yacht builders?

    And those going up the ladder of sucess will benefit greatly from tax breaks.

    Wealth is measured in THINGS, what we have. When things are produced easier, more effectively, cheaper, then we have more wealth. When the money is kept in the private sector, more money goes into research and developement and creating more streamlined business practices, COMPETITON, and thusly creating more wealth for EVERYONE.

    Its in the politicians best interests to create a class warfare. The more money the govt has, the more money and power they have. Reps and dems are BOTH guilty of this.

    Govt produces NOTHING.
    MONEY to the govt = WASTE

    They SCARE people into believing if the govt doesnt administer these programs, then we will have wholesale suffering, starvation and disease.

    NOT TRUE.

    NOBODY starved to death during the great depression, if we were able to survive that, then how much more so now during our greatest economic times in HISTORY.

    We are not doing so well now because of govt intervention, but in spite of it.

    And lastly, poverty does not exist in the US. Take a trip to the philippines, or India, or Africa, you will see real poverty, or even Tijuana.

    Im going to RP, (philippines) in Jan. I just bought twenty pairs of shoes for some kids on this street where my wife and I bought some used electronics. WHile she was negotiating the prices, I wondered down the street beyond where the stores were. There were kids all over, no sewers, water would just collect and stink, the houses were pathetic, the kids mostly had no shoes, one kid had a deformity where he walks on this ankles.

    I was in Salvation army, where I shop regularly, and I realized for a mere $2 a pair, I could supply these kids with shoes, so I loaded up 30 pairs.
    THese people dont have running water, no sewers provided by the govt.

    most amazing, my wife said it isnt the worse of conditions for many in RP.

    Now Im searching for anyone who might know a doctor who might be willing to donate time to get an operation for this kid walking on his ankles. Right now its no biggie for him, but I can only imagine an adult walking around in RP like that. His fate is already sealed.

    If you think life here sucks, take a trip there, you will find out how richly blessed we are.

    govt sucks.
     

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