Tax the "rich": What do you think about Mr. Hicks?

Dec 5, 2011
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Alan Hicks divides long days between the insurance business he started in the late 1970s and the barbecue restaurant he opened with his sons three years ago. He earned more than $250,000 last year and said taxes took more than 40 percent. What’s worse, in his view, is that others — the wealthy, hiding in loopholes; the poor, living on government benefits — are not paying their fair share.

“It feels like the harder we work, the more they take from us,” said Mr. Hicks, 55, as he waited for a meat truck one recent afternoon. “And it seems like there’s an awful lot of people in the United States who don’t pay any taxes.”

Mr. Hicks, like many residents of Belleville, views this debate with unhappiness. He would like the government to cut spending but not reduce services. He is certain that the government should not raise taxes on the middle class, a group in which he includes himself, but he is ambivalent about asking anyone to pay more. Higher taxes would hurt his businesses, he said, so raising taxes on those who make more money seems likely to hurt their businesses, too.

“At this point, I guess it’s inevitable in order to get us out of this hole,” Mr. Hicks said of higher taxes. “Illinois is in bad shape, along with a lot of the nation. But I don’t feel like we should tax the middle class any more than we are right now. There’s going to come a point where they take the incentive out of working hard.”

If the government cut his taxes, Mr. Hicks said, he would use the money to put a roof over the picnic tables outside the restaurant, expanding the year-round seating area. He already employs 14 people; then he could hire more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/u...rden-than-in-the-80s.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



The self-proclaimed defenders of minorities and equal rights would answer that the vast majority of small businesses fall under the $250,000 threshold and that Mr. Hicks is the exception to the rule :cool:
 
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Actually, those making between $110,000 and $400,000 get a huge tax break in the form of an exemption from Social Security taxes. In case anyone still isn't aware of it, Social Security is nothing more than a huge middle class welfare program dressed up as an "investment" placed in a "trust fund." In addition to providing benefits (SSI) to people who have never paid a penny into the system, it effectively imposes a means-tested scale for benefits paid to those who have contributed all their lives: Those who averaged about $2,000 per month in earnings get back 60% (about $1200 per month), while those who paid in four times as much ($8,000 per month) get back 30% (about $2400 per month).

But even worse than this inequity is the fact that those making over $110,000 per year get to escape the Social Security completely, leaving the Middle Class to pay for this crumbling system. The new income tax rates will make up this discrepancy for those making over $400,000, but the $250,000 earners will still be getting this huge tax break.
 
Alan Hicks divides long days between the insurance business he started in the late 1970s and the barbecue restaurant he opened with his sons three years ago. He earned more than $250,000 last year and said taxes took more than 40 percent. What’s worse, in his view, is that others — the wealthy, hiding in loopholes; the poor, living on government benefits — are not paying their fair share.

“It feels like the harder we work, the more they take from us,” said Mr. Hicks, 55, as he waited for a meat truck one recent afternoon. “And it seems like there’s an awful lot of people in the United States who don’t pay any taxes.”

Mr. Hicks, like many residents of Belleville, views this debate with unhappiness. He would like the government to cut spending but not reduce services. He is certain that the government should not raise taxes on the middle class, a group in which he includes himself, but he is ambivalent about asking anyone to pay more. Higher taxes would hurt his businesses, he said, so raising taxes on those who make more money seems likely to hurt their businesses, too.

“At this point, I guess it’s inevitable in order to get us out of this hole,” Mr. Hicks said of higher taxes. “Illinois is in bad shape, along with a lot of the nation. But I don’t feel like we should tax the middle class any more than we are right now. There’s going to come a point where they take the incentive out of working hard.”

If the government cut his taxes, Mr. Hicks said, he would use the money to put a roof over the picnic tables outside the restaurant, expanding the year-round seating area. He already employs 14 people; then he could hire more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/u...rden-than-in-the-80s.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



The self-proclaimed defenders of minorities and equal rights would answer that the vast majority of small businesses fall under the $250,000 threshold and that Mr. Hicks is the exception to the rule :cool:

I don't understand how high taxes can prevent Mr. Hicks from renovating his restaurant? Whatever he spends on renovation will be deducted from his taxable income, so what's the problem?
 
If Mr. Hicks spends $100k to renovate his restaurant, his net income will be reduced by $100k. If he is in a 50% tax bracket, he will still be out $50k. In this economy, that may not be worth the risk.
 
If Mr. Hicks spends $100k to renovate his restaurant, his net income will be reduced by $100k. If he is in a 50% tax bracket, he will still be out $50k. In this economy, that may not be worth the risk.

First, nobody is in 50% tax bracket -- the highest bracket is 39.6%, and it starts at 400K, so Mr. Hicks can't be affected by it.
Second, what do you mean by "he will still be out $50k"? He will not pay a single dime in taxes on the renovation money. Not $50K, not 1 cent -- zero.
 
Actually, those making between $110,000 and $400,000 get a huge tax break in the form of an exemption from Social Security taxes. In case anyone still isn't aware of it, Social Security is nothing more than a huge middle class welfare program dressed up as an "investment" placed in a "trust fund." In addition to providing benefits (SSI) to people who have never paid a penny into the system, it effectively imposes a means-tested scale for benefits paid to those who have contributed all their lives: Those who averaged about $2,000 per month in earnings get back 60% (about $1200 per month), while those who paid in four times as much ($8,000 per month) get back 30% (about $2400 per month).

But even worse than this inequity is the fact that those making over $110,000 per year get to escape the Social Security completely, leaving the Middle Class to pay for this crumbling system. The new income tax rates will make up this discrepancy for those making over $400,000, but the $250,000 earners will still be getting this huge tax break.

Yes, we should deduct payroll taxes from all income, not just from the first $110K.
 
He earned more than $250,000 last year and said taxes took more than 40 percent.


first thing would be to fire his accountant ... 40% is above the existing rates, even without deductions.

"more than $250,000 last year" - who's kidding who ?
 
Mr. Hicks, like many residents of Belleville, views this debate with unhappiness. He would like the government to cut spending but not reduce services. He is certain that the government should not raise taxes on the middle class, a group in which he includes himself, but he is ambivalent about asking anyone to pay more. Higher taxes would hurt his businesses, he said, so raising taxes on those who make more money seems likely to hurt their businesses, too.


Good luck with that idea, Pollyanna.
 
He earned more than $250,000 last year and said taxes took more than 40 percent.


first thing would be to fire his accountant ... 40% is above the existing rates, even without deductions."more than $250,000 last year" - who's kidding who ?

Well, no; 35% max rate for federal, 5% max for Illinois is 40% (44.6% for 2013). However, his income would have to be in excess of $389,000 (federal) to be subject to the 35% rate, and then only on income over that amount. His average rate could not be that high, but probably like most people, he has no idea what his average tax rate is.
 
Alan Hicks divides long days between the insurance business he started in the late 1970s and the barbecue restaurant he opened with his sons three years ago. He earned more than $250,000 last year and said taxes took more than 40 percent. What’s worse, in his view, is that others — the wealthy, hiding in loopholes; the poor, living on government benefits — are not paying their fair share.

“It feels like the harder we work, the more they take from us,” said Mr. Hicks, 55, as he waited for a meat truck one recent afternoon. “And it seems like there’s an awful lot of people in the United States who don’t pay any taxes.”

Mr. Hicks, like many residents of Belleville, views this debate with unhappiness. He would like the government to cut spending but not reduce services. He is certain that the government should not raise taxes on the middle class, a group in which he includes himself, but he is ambivalent about asking anyone to pay more. Higher taxes would hurt his businesses, he said, so raising taxes on those who make more money seems likely to hurt their businesses, too.

“At this point, I guess it’s inevitable in order to get us out of this hole,” Mr. Hicks said of higher taxes. “Illinois is in bad shape, along with a lot of the nation. But I don’t feel like we should tax the middle class any more than we are right now. There’s going to come a point where they take the incentive out of working hard.”

If the government cut his taxes, Mr. Hicks said, he would use the money to put a roof over the picnic tables outside the restaurant, expanding the year-round seating area. He already employs 14 people; then he could hire more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/u...rden-than-in-the-80s.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



The self-proclaimed defenders of minorities and equal rights would answer that the vast majority of small businesses fall under the $250,000 threshold and that Mr. Hicks is the exception to the rule :cool:

I don't understand how high taxes can prevent Mr. Hicks from renovating his restaurant? Whatever he spends on renovation will be deducted from his taxable income, so what's the problem?

Putting a roof on a building is not immediately deductible; he would get a prorata share of the amount spent over a 39 year period if it is considered part of the building. So for the $100,000 hypothetical outlay, his annual deduction would only be about $2,500. Furniture and fixtures would be recovered faster, but aside from a couple of special potential breaks he may be eligible for, usually is expensed over 7 years. So no, he would not be able to deduct the lion's share of his outlay.
 
Higher taxes do deflate motivation when you are taxed on your income by the state and the fed.
 
Mr. Hicks, like many residents of Belleville, views this debate with unhappiness. He would like the government to cut spending but not reduce services. He is certain that the government should not raise taxes on the middle class, a group in which he includes himself, but he is ambivalent about asking anyone to pay more. Higher taxes would hurt his businesses, he said, so raising taxes on those who make more money seems likely to hurt their businesses, too.


Good luck with that idea, Pollyanna.

Ha!

I'd like a pink unicorn and world peace. :D
 
Putting a roof on a building is not immediately deductible; he would get a prorata share of the amount spent over a 39 year period if it is considered part of the building.

OK, so he will have to get a loan or a mortgage to pay for the roof -- and I'm sure there are lot programs giving the small bushiness aces to cheap loans. But many other business expenses, like salaries for the new employees are deductible.

So if there is a good business case for expansion, higher taxes would not be an obstacle.
 
Putting a roof on a building is not immediately deductible; he would get a prorata share of the amount spent over a 39 year period if it is considered part of the building.

OK, so he will have to get a loan or a mortgage to pay for the roof -- and I'm sure there are lot programs giving the small bushiness aces to cheap loans. But many other business expenses, like salaries for the new employees are deductible.

So if there is a good business case for expansion, higher taxes would not be an obstacle.

We don’t know how much leverage Mr. Hicks is already carrying; he may already have a mortgage on the restaurant building, or he may not qualify for financing for any number of other reasons – banks are not lending as freely as your response implies. You seem to want to discount any negative effects of tax policy on small businesses. While I have a hard time believing the overall story told by this guy, the fact is that increased taxation on small business does affect their expansion and purchasing decisions (and as a result, their hiring decisions), and your assumption that there is always an easy answer to find funding for a “good business case” beyond their own means is naïve.
 

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