Tax Policy Center delivers haymaker to 9 - 9 - 9

[Skull Pilot]

A person with no work record and a successful dib claim gets $8,088 per year in federal welfare SSI. That's the minimum amount the federal government believes an American can survive on.

It just seems stupid to me to tax a guy earning $7,000 per year and then come back with a welfare check so he can survive. On the other hand, not letting EVERYone earn their first 7 grand or 10 grand (or whatever) free of federal income taxes would be blatenly unfair.

I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.

My feeling is this...and it is off the cuff but based on my understanding of what is needed to survive...

and I am referring to a flat tax of somewhere between 9-12%

Single......12K or less....no Fed Tax.
Married file jointly.....20K no fed tax

Income earners between 20K and 50K only pay tax on the 20K above the base of 20K

Income earners 50K-75K only pay taxes from 15K and up

Income earners 75K and more....taxes on all income

Income is to include all income including cap gains.

I know...sounds dumb...got any better ideas?

Why so many levels of taxation? As far as I'm concerned, the simpler the better.

Everyone (including pieces of paper that can open bank accounts) pays 15% income tax on income in excess of $20,000 per year and a 2% sales tax. No deductions (except payroll), no bullshit.

Simple. Fair. Predictable. What more does a free market want?



Married, single, non-human corporation? Doesn't matter.

You want kids? They're fun, but they're gonna cost you!

Don't want to pay taxes? Limit your earnings to >$20k and don't buy anything.

If a business can only deduct payroll and not other expenses accrued in the production of goods then you will see the costs of goods rise significantly.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You are brilliant....like I said. Brilliant. You have apparently discovered a way to avoid paying the increased tax rate by defering income. An excellent strategy. It begs the question, then.......why are you whining like a bitch about the proposed increase?

"And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already."

They don't apply to you. Genius!

And why don't they apply, little sheep? Because unlike people of your ilk, I thought ahead and planned for my future. Try it sometime

And....reread my comments about the new hires. You failed to comprehend. Hard to believe, given your brilliance.

You are another sheep who doesn't know shit about running a business aren't you?

If you hire 2 people at 100K a year each you you would probably not double your profits as those two people cost much more than their base salary to the bottom line. And in my business I would need to hire additional support staff for those two people

SO your example isn't even worth picking apart any further.

Good. It wasn't designed to be picked apart. It was just simple math. The point is that the 3% additional tax burden you might have is NOT A DISINCENTIVE TO HIRING IF PROFIT RESULTS.

I may not know shit about running a business. I may be flying by the seat of my pants with the one I own......lucky me.

 

[AVG-JOE]

A person with no work record and a successful dib claim gets $8,088 per year in federal welfare SSI. That's the minimum amount the federal government believes an American can survive on.

It just seems stupid to me to tax a guy earning $7,000 per year and then come back with a welfare check so he can survive. On the other hand, not letting EVERYone earn their first 7 grand or 10 grand (or whatever) free of federal income taxes would be blatenly unfair.

I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.

My feeling is this...and it is off the cuff but based on my understanding of what is needed to survive...

and I am referring to a flat tax of somewhere between 9-12%

Single......12K or less....no Fed Tax.
Married file jointly.....20K no fed tax

Income earners between 20K and 50K only pay tax on the 20K above the base of 20K

Income earners 50K-75K only pay taxes from 15K and up

Income earners 75K and more....taxes on all income

Income is to include all income including cap gains.

I know...sounds dumb...got any better ideas?

Not saying that I agree with this in any way, shape, or form...

But... with such a benefit of an income 'floor'... would you then agree that since you are getting the 'relief' for 'necessities' with this plan, we should then get rid of all governmental assistance for 'necessities' because the 'poor' are already gaining this benefit??? No more government healthcare, no welfare, no entitlements, no vouchers, no section 8, no nothing

We will need some sort of welfare going forward. The ONLY cure for welfare is education and access to medical care. There are many people out there who are too broken or too unskilled to earn $7,000 per year. Some are simply too stupid and ya can't fix stupid.

Unless we're willing to have the tourists tripping over beggars, we do need a safety net.

The trick is to filter them all through the safety nets of education first and prison second, catching them in the welfare net only if they truly are too broken or stupid to be productive, but not stupid enough to fuck up bad enough to be warehoused in a prison.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are brilliant....like I said. Brilliant. You have apparently discovered a way to avoid paying the increased tax rate by defering income. An excellent strategy. It begs the question, then.......why are you whining like a bitch about the proposed increase?

"And will I try to keep my income under the newly defined evil rich level of 250K hell fucking yes as i believe i pay more than enough in taxes already."

They don't apply to you. Genius!

And why don't they apply, little sheep? Because unlike people of your ilk, I thought ahead and planned for my future. Try it sometime

And....reread my comments about the new hires. You failed to comprehend. Hard to believe, given your brilliance.

You are another sheep who doesn't know shit about running a business aren't you?

If you hire 2 people at 100K a year each you you would probably not double your profits as those two people cost much more than their base salary to the bottom line. And in my business I would need to hire additional support staff for those two people

SO your example isn't even worth picking apart any further.

Good. It wasn't designed to be picked apart. It was just simple math. The point is that the 3% additional tax burden you might have is NOT A DISINCENTIVE TO HIRING IF PROFIT RESULTS.

I may not know shit about running a business. I may be flying by the seat of my pants with the one I own......lucky me.

For one where did I ever say i would not hire if my business warranted a hire simply to keep profits down?

I've explained twice to you how I planned to manage my income and defer it. But you see that as me shit canning profits.

So you have done nothing but prove you don't understand the concept of planning ahead.

And why would anyone want to pay an additional 7500 for anything if they were going to get nothing for it? You might want to but then that's probably because you don't understand how to mange your money.

 

[LoneLaugher]

And why don't they apply, little sheep? Because unlike people of your ilk, I thought ahead and planned for my future. Try it sometime



You are another sheep who doesn't know shit about running a business aren't you?

If you hire 2 people at 100K a year each you you would probably not double your profits as those two people cost much more than their base salary to the bottom line. And in my business I would need to hire additional support staff for those two people

SO your example isn't even worth picking apart any further.

Good. It wasn't designed to be picked apart. It was just simple math. The point is that the 3% additional tax burden you might have is NOT A DISINCENTIVE TO HIRING IF PROFIT RESULTS.

I may not know shit about running a business. I may be flying by the seat of my pants with the one I own......lucky me.

For one where did I ever say i would not hire if my business warranted a hire simply to keep profits down?

I've explained twice to you how I planned to manage my income and defer it. But you see that as me shit canning profits.

So you have done nothing but prove you don't understand the concept of planning ahead.

And why would anyone want to pay an additional 7500 for anything if they were going to get nothing for it? You might want to but then that's probably because you don't understand how to mange your money.

Actually, I pay someone else to manage my money. Must have done something right.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Not saying that I agree with this in any way, shape, or form...

But... with such a benefit of an income 'floor'... would you then agree that since you are getting the 'relief' for 'necessities' with this plan, we should then get rid of all governmental assistance for 'necessities' because the 'poor' are already gaining this benefit??? No more government healthcare, no welfare, no entitlements, no vouchers, no section 8, no nothing

I will never agree to eliminating welfare. Exactly how does a mother with 2 children feed her children on 10K a year?
Section 8 is an issue in itself becuase a flat tax would eliminate section 42 (LIHTC)....so who the heck knows what is going to happen in the rental housing market. I mean...how are we going to get developers to build in depressed areas?
Government healthcare? I say go back to what we had....ER with government assistance for those that can not afford other insurances

By working a second job... but gaining a roommate situation where they help each other out... by joining the military.... by approaching local charities... by giving the child up for adoption because they cannot take care of it.... by becoming an extreme couponer... by converting their entire front and back yard into a garden... by collecting cans and turning them into recycle centers for $$... by moving to an area where it don't cost shit to live... by moving back home with mom and dad.... the list goes on....

The problem is that it's just more and more handouts or breaks.. everywhere you look... and it maintains a group of people, reliant on govt, who will continually vote in ways to keep freebies coming at the expense of others...

Look.. I fully support giving to charities that help those in need... food banks, clothing drives, job training programs, etc.. all funded by charity.. I give a lot every year to various things... but I do not think anyone has it OWED to them by government, nor do I think anyone should be without a stake in the game... having no stake makes it easy to allow for more unchecked bullshit in government...

Education is one of the primary responsibilities of government - state or federal is an argument for another thread, but no businessman on the planet expects to start employee training with readin', writin' & 'rithmetic.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Good. It wasn't designed to be picked apart. It was just simple math. The point is that the 3% additional tax burden you might have is NOT A DISINCENTIVE TO HIRING IF PROFIT RESULTS.

I may not know shit about running a business. I may be flying by the seat of my pants with the one I own......lucky me.

For one where did I ever say i would not hire if my business warranted a hire simply to keep profits down?

I've explained twice to you how I planned to manage my income and defer it. But you see that as me shit canning profits.

So you have done nothing but prove you don't understand the concept of planning ahead.

And why would anyone want to pay an additional 7500 for anything if they were going to get nothing for it? You might want to but then that's probably because you don't understand how to mange your money.

Actually, I pay someone else to manage my money. Must have done something right.

Or you're an idiot who puts too much trust in an adviser and then will wonder where your money went when you go to use it.

Tell me is you so called adviser fee for service or does he charge you a percentage of your portfolio as well as all kinds of fees and sales charges ?
Does he get commissions for what he talks you into buying?
If he is the latter take my advice and get a fee for service financial adviser because you're getting ripped off.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The idea that the first dollar a person earns should be taxed the same as the millionth dollar someone earns is preposterous. There is no meaningful support for that concept.

It is not 'supported' because of people like you who want something at the expense of others... selective equal treatment because it benefits you...

I guess it is just as preposterous to then say that we should have differing prices for things or services depending on your income??? Differing sales tax rates depending on your income?? Why stop at just income tax?? Keep making those nasty earners provide more and more to you

I make 50 grand a year, I am single with no dependents and no exemptions/deductions to claim.

What advantages am I getting from the current system?

None. You are the classic example of a middle-class taxpayer, represented by few if any special interest groups, who ends up supplying the bulk of the money for the federal budget.

 

[LoneLaugher]

For one where did I ever say i would not hire if my business warranted a hire simply to keep profits down?

I've explained twice to you how I planned to manage my income and defer it. But you see that as me shit canning profits.

So you have done nothing but prove you don't understand the concept of planning ahead.

And why would anyone want to pay an additional 7500 for anything if they were going to get nothing for it? You might want to but then that's probably because you don't understand how to mange your money.

Actually, I pay someone else to manage my money. Must have done something right.

Or you're an idiot who puts too much trust in an adviser and then will wonder where your money went when you go to use it.

You nailed it! I shred my portfolio statements without even looking at them. I just give my guy a stack of pre-signed trade authorization forms and he can do whatever he wants. I never ask. You are so intuitive!

 

[AVG-JOE]

I make 50 grand a year, I am single with no dependents and no exemptions/deductions to claim.

What advantages am I getting from the current system?

A lower rate than me... lower payment per dollar for the same exact services I receive too... the same product at a reduced cost at the expense of someone else

Bwaaaaa...so you don't even want a flat percent tax, you want everyone to pay the same dollar amount of taxes.

jeezus christ on a bicycle!

I think we can all agree that equal tax obligations would simply not work. Mr. Lincoln was wrong. All men are NOT created equal.

 

[DiamondDave]

Bwaaaaa...so you don't even want a flat percent tax, you want everyone to pay the same dollar amount of taxes.

jeezus christ on a bicycle!

Nope... nice try... try a little reading comprehension... show where I ever said such a thing... I want a flat % tax where each dollar earned has a % that goes for the running of our country

You complained:

"lower payment per dollar for the same exact services I receive too"

Even under a pure flat tax someone with half the taxable income you have would pay half the per dollar rate for the exact same services,

so yes, whether you meant to or not, you were saying you want everyone to pay the same dollar amount in federal income taxes.

Are you that stupid??... if 10% per dollar is paid in federal income taxes regardless of dollar 1 or dollar 10000000, it is still 10%... just as in sales tax 5% of dollar 1 is the same as 5% of dollar 10000..

I said everyone to pay the same tax rate per dollar earned for every dollar earned.... you're feeble attempt at manipulation will not work with me, asswipe

 

[JakeStarkey]

By working a second job... but gaining a roommate situation where they help each other out... by joining the military.... by approaching local charities... by giving the child up for adoption because they cannot take care of it.... by becoming an extreme couponer... by converting their entire front and back yard into a garden... by collecting cans and turning them into recycle centers for $$... by moving to an area where it don't cost shit to live... by moving back home with mom and dad.... the list goes on....

The problem is that it's just more and more handouts or breaks.. everywhere you look... and it maintains a group of people, reliant on govt, who will continually vote in ways to keep freebies coming at the expense of others...

Look.. I fully support giving to charities that help those in need... food banks, clothing drives, job training programs, etc.. all funded by charity.. I give a lot every year to various things... but I do not think anyone has it OWED to them by government, nor do I think anyone should be without a stake in the game... having no stake makes it easy to allow for more unchecked bullshit in government...

Bull shit, DiamodDave. That is the only appropriate answer to your rant.

Take a hike, ant wipe.

Because you don't want people to have to do the hard things??

There are plenty of ways to do things to make it, to survive, to provide... most just want the easier way out of the handout... not all solutions are pleasant, but there are ways to do it... sorry if it hurts your feelings

asswipe

Nonsense. We the People say otherwise, and will always say otherwise, and you will continue as part of the social compact. Lucky you!

 

[DiamondDave]

I will never agree to eliminating welfare. Exactly how does a mother with 2 children feed her children on 10K a year?
Section 8 is an issue in itself becuase a flat tax would eliminate section 42 (LIHTC)....so who the heck knows what is going to happen in the rental housing market. I mean...how are we going to get developers to build in depressed areas?
Government healthcare? I say go back to what we had....ER with government assistance for those that can not afford other insurances

By working a second job... but gaining a roommate situation where they help each other out... by joining the military.... by approaching local charities... by giving the child up for adoption because they cannot take care of it.... by becoming an extreme couponer... by converting their entire front and back yard into a garden... by collecting cans and turning them into recycle centers for $$... by moving to an area where it don't cost shit to live... by moving back home with mom and dad.... the list goes on....

The problem is that it's just more and more handouts or breaks.. everywhere you look... and it maintains a group of people, reliant on govt, who will continually vote in ways to keep freebies coming at the expense of others...

Look.. I fully support giving to charities that help those in need... food banks, clothing drives, job training programs, etc.. all funded by charity.. I give a lot every year to various things... but I do not think anyone has it OWED to them by government, nor do I think anyone should be without a stake in the game... having no stake makes it easy to allow for more unchecked bullshit in government...

Education is one of the primary responsibilities of government - state or federal is an argument for another thread, but no businessman on the planet expects to start employee training with readin', writin' & 'rithmetic.

I would agree for MINORS.. not for adults... the personal responsibilities for adults have no business in government, IMHO

 

[DiamondDave]

Bull shit, DiamodDave. That is the only appropriate answer to your rant.

Take a hike, ant wipe.

Because you don't want people to have to do the hard things??

There are plenty of ways to do things to make it, to survive, to provide... most just want the easier way out of the handout... not all solutions are pleasant, but there are ways to do it... sorry if it hurts your feelings

asswipe

Nonsense. We the People say otherwise, and will always say otherwise, and you will continue as part of the social compact. Lucky you!

With having people that think like you, it makes me grateful that we don't live in a mob rule democracy

 

[JakeStarkey]

We never have, and your minescule faction of political philosophy will never rule.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Actually, I pay someone else to manage my money. Must have done something right.

Or you're an idiot who puts too much trust in an adviser and then will wonder where your money went when you go to use it.

You nailed it! I shred my portfolio statements without even looking at them. I just give my guy a stack of pre-signed trade authorization forms and he can do whatever he wants. I never ask. You are so intuitive!

Why not you're all in favor of paying 7500 extra or more in taxes even though you get nothing for it.

After all you say it's only 3%.

Just shows how clueless you are about money. How much of a commission does you stock salesman I mean adviser make on what he sells you? Rube.