Tax Day rhetoric aside, Americans' bills are lower

[Ravi]

I'm a good example. Several years ago I sold a building and made a lot of money. I was in the 90% bracket and it hurt.
Since then we haven't made much money. This year I am getting back more than I paid in. That's just wrong btw.
But I don't want to be earning a minimal amount every year. I want to make LOTS of money. But not if I am giving 90% of it to the government.
That's why taxes are too high.

The last time anyone was in the 90% bracket was 1963.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Do people just not know the difference between a tax cut and a tax credit? Are people really THAT ignorant?

 

[Valerie]

Did you know, that taxes are down for the middle class....the lowest its been in 50 years. Yet these tea baggers are complaining about it.

Astounding really.

I don't think it's that astounding since most people don't view things only relative to last year...

Most people don't think about politics every day, they just work and pay bills.




The astounding thing is the money the government takes in this year is $1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS less than what the government spending this year.

The national debt is rapidly approaching $13 TRILLION DOLLARS!



ASTOUNDING!!!

National Debt Clock - Defeat the Debt

Last year? Ok then...95% of them got rebate checks.....Jesus, what else do they want tax wise.

A rebate last year and this year the lowest its been in 50 years for the middle class.


Great job, mr. Obama. Great job sir.

Keep in mind, there is much more to our collective tax burden than just 1040 taxable income.

Families are drowning in their bills regardless. We have increased property taxes, increased excise taxes, increased sales taxes, increased fuel taxes, etc. Add to that massive health care premiums, day care costs, increased local fees, utilities, etc.


The budget THIS YEAR ALONE is spending $1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS MORE than it is taking in with tax revenues. The national debt is ~ $13 TRILLION and rational people are legitimately concerned about justifying our annual budget.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm a good example. Several years ago I sold a building and made a lot of money. I was in the 90% bracket and it hurt.
Since then we haven't made much money. This year I am getting back more than I paid in. That's just wrong btw.
But I don't want to be earning a minimal amount every year. I want to make LOTS of money. But not if I am giving 90% of it to the government.
That's why taxes are too high.

What 90% bracket were you in, where, and when?

 

[NYcarbineer]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- You wouldn't know it by the Tax Day rhetoric, but Americans are paying lower taxes this year, even with increases passed by many states to balance their budgets.

Tax Day rhetoric aside, Americans' bills are lower - Yahoo! Finance
(Damn that left wing Yahoo finance site!)

I wonder how silly these tea baggers feel when they realize they are screaming against lower taxes.

Wasn't there another thread about a poll showing just how much smarter these Tea Baggers are than the rest of us???

The teabaggers, and rightwingers in general have boxed themselves into a bizarre set of contradictions. They clamor for lower taxes one moment, then throw a fit because half of Americans (including a good many of them don't let them fool you) are paying no income taxes.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Do people just not know the difference between a tax cut and a tax credit? Are people really THAT ignorant?

Do you have a point? I'd love to hear it.

 

[Misty]

Taxes are lower because people didn't make as much money this year.

That's not a good thing.

 

[Valerie]

---"Budget Deficit" vs. "National Debt"---

Suppose you want to spend more money this month than your income. This situation is called a "budget deficit". So you borrow (ie; use your credit card). The amount you borrowed (and now owe) is called your debt. You have to pay interest on your debt. If next month you don't have enough money to cover your spending (another deficit), you must borrow some more, and you'll still have to pay the interest on the loan. If you have a deficit every month, you keep borrowing and your debt grows. Soon the interest payment on your loan is bigger than any other item in your budget. Eventually, all you can do is pay the interest payment, and you don't have any money left over for anything else. This situation is known as bankruptcy.

Each year since 1969, Congress has spent more money than its income. The Treasury Department has to borrow money to meet Congress's appropriations.

We pay interest* on that huge debt. And now the Treasury is having trouble finding lenders!

Federal Budget Spending and the National Debt

>>

Here are the Top-10 time bombs now faithfully ticking away:

1. Federal Budget Deficit Bomb. The government is spending over $1.5 trillion more than it takes in each year.

2. US Foreign Trade Bomb. The US imports more than $400 billion than it exports. We've shipped our industrial manufacturing overseas and won't allow our natural energy companies to tap into our own mainland fuel sources.

3. Destruction of the US Dollar as the World's Foreign Reserve. Once the US dollar is no longer kept as reserve by foreign nations, GDP will fall by 1%. This will cost us over $150 billion a year.

4. Cheap Money Bomb. By pushing down the interest rates to near-zero to "stimulate" the economy, the FED lowered the cost of government borrowing to 1%. As interest rates rise, this cost shoots up. When rates reach the normal range of 4-6%, 25% of the federal budget will be sucked up. Washington will have to borrow even more just to keep even. Meanwhile the treadmill is speeding up.

5. Global Real Estate Bomb. US commercial real estate is in trouble. It makes problems in the housing market look tiny. $1.7 trillion in IOU's are held by the banks, and defaults are now beginning. As real estate prices fall, people sink "under water" in equity. They can hold their breath for only so long. Then the banks take back unwanted property which they can't easily sell. Over 30% of houses in default are not even being put up for sale by the bank. They are being left empty to decay.

6. Consumer Debt Bomb. Americans owe $16.7 trillion, mostly for home loans and credit cards. But people are now saving more and that debt is falling. That's good, right? Wrong. Start saving more and spending drops. That's bad. Washington has encouraged multinational firms to move manufacturing overseas; US plants are closing left and right. But 70% of our economy is driven by the consumer. The solution is simple: make more stuff here. Including energy. Until then, Bush and Obama both recommend that you spend, spend, spend.

7. State & Local Government Budget Bomb. In 2010 the states are running budget deficits of over $110 billion. By law, state budgets must be balanced. The national government has a monopoly on the dollar. States don't have the "luxury" of printing money to pay their bills. State budget deficits could hit $200 billion next year. Then add their unfunded pension funds of $500 billion. Where does this money come from? Either raise taxes, which is political suicide, or borrow more. But bond rating agencies have already slashed many states' credit ratings, raising the interest rates they have to pay. The alternative, cutting the bloated state union payrolls and entitlements, appears unthinkable.

8. Unfunded Corporate Pension Bomb. In 2007, corporate pension funds had a $55+ billion surplus. Now they're short over $400 billion. Who will make that up? When the airlines went bankrupt, the Federal Government's Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation bailed them out. Ditto GM. Who backs up PBGC? The US Government and more taxpayers' money. Add another trillion.

9. Social Security, Medicare & Obama Health Care programs. Nuclear bombs with hair triggers. Social Security & Medicare, are already sucking the lifeblood out of the economy. The latest idea from the Democratic Congress is to cover those medically uninsured by forcing their bills on existing workers and the taxpayer. There ain't enough money to go around, folks. Warns Paul Farrell at MarketWatch : "a new meltdown is coming. The Great Depression II" You're right, Paul, the countdown has started and we're approaching zero-hour.

10. Government Political Bomb(s). We have a Dysfunctional 2-Party System which has been infiltrated by progressives on both sides. There hasn't been a socialist born who understands real-world economics. They continue to believe that money grows on trees in their fantasyland utopias. Then add the insatiable Washington Lobbyist Machine of special interests/unions/big banks, the Homeland Insecurity Bomb including military spending (Iraq & Afghanistan at $3 trillion), and the Coming Populist Tax Revolt Bomb


But the godzilla bomb is lurking: The Plutonium Shadow Banking Derivative Bomb.

In 2008, the Fed freaked out over a paltry $100 billion in debts that were sloshing around the Wall Street "investment banking" gambling houses. Lehman Brothers popped first, followed by a dozen more. Then AIG went poof trying to pay off a little bitty $150 billion in banking derivative "guarantees". The Treasury quickly poured in money to seal the leaking dam, slowing the flow to a trickle.

But now global banking derivatives have expanded to over $670 trillion. Since the entire world's GDP is only $50 trillion, when this bubble pops, it will consume 13 years of the all money everywhere..

It isn't going to happen. We'll reboot the entire system before that. There will be winners (people who owe money and own gold) and losers (people who keep their assets in the bank and stock market). Instant millionaires will be made overnight; old millionaires will be made penniless. Which group will you be in?



Top Ten Budget Time Bombs.
The Top-10 Budget-Deficit Time Bombs - HUMAN EVENTS

 

[boedicca]

Keep in mind, there is much more to our collective tax burden than just 1040 taxable income.

Families are drowning in their bills regardless. We have increased property taxes, increased excise taxes, increased sales taxes, increased fuel taxes, etc. Add to that massive health care premiums, day care costs, increased local fees, utilities, etc.


The budget THIS YEAR ALONE is spending $1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS MORE than it is taking in with tax revenues. The national debt is ~ $13 TRILLION and rational people are legitimately concerned about justifying our annual budget.

That is absolutely correct.

Since the 1950s, the total tax burden on the median American family has more than doubled as a percent of income - from 18% to 38% (Federal, State, Property, Sales, etc.). This is why families are struggling financially.

 

[Avatar4321]

Im just amazed that anyone can honestly claim we are keeping more of our money when we can look at our bills/income and do simple math.

 

[Valerie]

---"Budget Deficit" vs. "National Debt"---

Suppose you want to spend more money this month than your income. This situation is called a "budget deficit". So you borrow (ie; use your credit card). The amount you borrowed (and now owe) is called your debt. You have to pay interest on your debt. If next month you don't have enough money to cover your spending (another deficit), you must borrow some more, and you'll still have to pay the interest on the loan. If you have a deficit every month, you keep borrowing and your debt grows. Soon the interest payment on your loan is bigger than any other item in your budget. Eventually, all you can do is pay the interest payment, and you don't have any money left over for anything else. This situation is known as bankruptcy.

Each year since 1969, Congress has spent more money than its income. The Treasury Department has to borrow money to meet Congress's appropriations.

We pay interest* on that huge debt. And now the Treasury is having trouble finding lenders!

Federal Budget Spending and the National Debt

>>

Here are the Top-10 time bombs now faithfully ticking away:

1. Federal Budget Deficit Bomb. The government is spending over $1.5 trillion more than it takes in each year.

2. US Foreign Trade Bomb. The US imports more than $400 billion than it exports. We've shipped our industrial manufacturing overseas and won't allow our natural energy companies to tap into our own mainland fuel sources.

3. Destruction of the US Dollar as the World's Foreign Reserve. Once the US dollar is no longer kept as reserve by foreign nations, GDP will fall by 1%. This will cost us over $150 billion a year.

4. Cheap Money Bomb. By pushing down the interest rates to near-zero to "stimulate" the economy, the FED lowered the cost of government borrowing to 1%. As interest rates rise, this cost shoots up. When rates reach the normal range of 4-6%, 25% of the federal budget will be sucked up. Washington will have to borrow even more just to keep even. Meanwhile the treadmill is speeding up.

5. Global Real Estate Bomb. US commercial real estate is in trouble. It makes problems in the housing market look tiny. $1.7 trillion in IOU's are held by the banks, and defaults are now beginning. As real estate prices fall, people sink "under water" in equity. They can hold their breath for only so long. Then the banks take back unwanted property which they can't easily sell. Over 30% of houses in default are not even being put up for sale by the bank. They are being left empty to decay.

6. Consumer Debt Bomb. Americans owe $16.7 trillion, mostly for home loans and credit cards. But people are now saving more and that debt is falling. That's good, right? Wrong. Start saving more and spending drops. That's bad. Washington has encouraged multinational firms to move manufacturing overseas; US plants are closing left and right. But 70% of our economy is driven by the consumer. The solution is simple: make more stuff here. Including energy. Until then, Bush and Obama both recommend that you spend, spend, spend.

7. State & Local Government Budget Bomb. In 2010 the states are running budget deficits of over $110 billion. By law, state budgets must be balanced. The national government has a monopoly on the dollar. States don't have the "luxury" of printing money to pay their bills. State budget deficits could hit $200 billion next year. Then add their unfunded pension funds of $500 billion. Where does this money come from? Either raise taxes, which is political suicide, or borrow more. But bond rating agencies have already slashed many states' credit ratings, raising the interest rates they have to pay. The alternative, cutting the bloated state union payrolls and entitlements, appears unthinkable.

8. Unfunded Corporate Pension Bomb. In 2007, corporate pension funds had a $55+ billion surplus. Now they're short over $400 billion. Who will make that up? When the airlines went bankrupt, the Federal Government's Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation bailed them out. Ditto GM. Who backs up PBGC? The US Government and more taxpayers' money. Add another trillion.

9. Social Security, Medicare & Obama Health Care programs. Nuclear bombs with hair triggers. Social Security & Medicare, are already sucking the lifeblood out of the economy. The latest idea from the Democratic Congress is to cover those medically uninsured by forcing their bills on existing workers and the taxpayer. There ain't enough money to go around, folks. Warns Paul Farrell at MarketWatch : "a new meltdown is coming. The Great Depression II" You're right, Paul, the countdown has started and we're approaching zero-hour.

10. Government Political Bomb(s). We have a Dysfunctional 2-Party System which has been infiltrated by progressives on both sides. There hasn't been a socialist born who understands real-world economics. They continue to believe that money grows on trees in their fantasyland utopias. Then add the insatiable Washington Lobbyist Machine of special interests/unions/big banks, the Homeland Insecurity Bomb including military spending (Iraq & Afghanistan at $3 trillion), and the Coming Populist Tax Revolt Bomb


But the godzilla bomb is lurking: The Plutonium Shadow Banking Derivative Bomb.

In 2008, the Fed freaked out over a paltry $100 billion in debts that were sloshing around the Wall Street "investment banking" gambling houses. Lehman Brothers popped first, followed by a dozen more. Then AIG went poof trying to pay off a little bitty $150 billion in banking derivative "guarantees". The Treasury quickly poured in money to seal the leaking dam, slowing the flow to a trickle.

But now global banking derivatives have expanded to over $670 trillion. Since the entire world's GDP is only $50 trillion, when this bubble pops, it will consume 13 years of the all money everywhere..

It isn't going to happen. We'll reboot the entire system before that. There will be winners (people who owe money and own gold) and losers (people who keep their assets in the bank and stock market). Instant millionaires will be made overnight; old millionaires will be made penniless. Which group will you be in?



Top Ten Budget Time Bombs.
The Top-10 Budget-Deficit Time Bombs - HUMAN EVENTS

>

Your money is spent through Appropriations Bills passed by The U. S. Senate and signed by the President. The Government does not have any money, it takes your money from you and, and borrows more, then spends that! The bailouts of 2008 and 2009 are purely deficit spending. Expect to see enormous deficits in the foreseeable future, leading to much more debt; and interest payments on that debt will become the largest item in the federal budget. On C-SPAN, President Obama boldly told Americans: "We are out of money."


In 1913, when the Federal Reserve was created with the duty of preserving the dollar, one 20-dollar bill could buy one 20-dollar gold piece. Today, fifty 20-dollar bills are needed to buy one 20-dollar gold piece. Under the Fed's custody, the U.S. dollar has lost 98 percent of its value. The dollar is the storehouse of our wealth. Has the Fed faithfully safeguarded that storehouse? Was it not Thomas Jefferson who taught us, "In questions of power let us hear no more of trust in men, but bind them down from mischief with the chains of the Constitution"?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Did you know, that taxes are down for the middle class....the lowest its been in 50 years. Yet these tea baggers are complaining about it.

Astounding really.

so big fucking deal.....what good does it do if your fucking State does everything they can do to raise your state taxes and do like they do out here....start charging fees for all kinds of stuff......i got a 30 dollar a paycheck Obama raise to see it get eaten up by this ridiculous legislature out here....now i believe i am about 20 bucks a paycheck in the hole from where i was.....if Obama was any kind of a leader he would be bad mouthing the state legislatures who are nullifying his so-called tax cuts......instead he is talking about the fucking tea party people....yea he is for the middle class and the downtrodden....my ass....

 

[Oddball]

Keep in mind, there is much more to our collective tax burden than just 1040 taxable income.

Families are drowning in their bills regardless. We have increased property taxes, increased excise taxes, increased sales taxes, increased fuel taxes, etc. Add to that massive health care premiums, day care costs, increased local fees, utilities, etc.


The budget THIS YEAR ALONE is spending $1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS MORE than it is taking in with tax revenues. The national debt is ~ $13 TRILLION and rational people are legitimately concerned about justifying our annual budget.

Exactly my point when making the observation that income taxes aren't the only federal taxes out there, and that refundable tax credits aren't "tax cuts" at all.

Boyking and congress have jacked up numerous federal taxes that have nothing to do with income taxes.

 

[Oddball]

Do people just not know the difference between a tax cut and a tax credit? Are people really THAT ignorant?

Do you have a point? I'd love to hear it.

The point is that a a tax credit doesn't change the tax bracketing at all....It merely acts as a defacto one-time welfare payment that you apply for on your 1040.

 

[Ravi]

Did you know, that taxes are down for the middle class....the lowest its been in 50 years. Yet these tea baggers are complaining about it.

Astounding really.

so big fucking deal.....what good does it do if your fucking State does everything they can do to raise your state taxes and do like they do out here....start charging fees for all kinds of stuff......i got a 30 dollar a paycheck Obama raise to see it get eaten up by this ridiculous legislature out here....now i believe i am about 20 bucks a paycheck in the hole from where i was.....if Obama was any kind of a leader he would be bad mouthing the state legislatures who are nullifying his so-called tax cuts......instead he is talking about the fucking tea party people....yea he is for the middle class and the downtrodden....my ass....

And then the rightwingloons would complain he's interfering in state business.

Perhaps you should direct your energies on your own state.

 

[Annie]

Do people just not know the difference between a tax cut and a tax credit? Are people really THAT ignorant?

Do you have a point? I'd love to hear it.

The point is that a a tax credit doesn't change the tax bracketing at all....It merely acts as a defacto one-time welfare payment that you apply for on your 1040.

The tea party folks, along with those that agree but aren't there, recognize how long it takes for the impact of legislation to hit. They do understand what is being done down the line, worse yet to their children and other generations yet unborn.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2216859-post30.html

 

[California Girl]

This is as bad as when these tea baggers were protesting last year when 95% of them got rebates.

Idiots.

99.99999% of your posts are total, utter, partisan crap.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Did you know, that taxes are down for the middle class....the lowest its been in 50 years. Yet these tea baggers are complaining about it.

Astounding really.

so big fucking deal.....what good does it do if your fucking State does everything they can do to raise your state taxes and do like they do out here....start charging fees for all kinds of stuff......i got a 30 dollar a paycheck Obama raise to see it get eaten up by this ridiculous legislature out here....now i believe i am about 20 bucks a paycheck in the hole from where i was.....if Obama was any kind of a leader he would be bad mouthing the state legislatures who are nullifying his so-called tax cuts......instead he is talking about the fucking tea party people....yea he is for the middle class and the downtrodden....my ass....

And then the rightwingloons would complain he's interfering in state business.

Perhaps you should direct your energies on your own state.

bottom line....it doesnt make him look to credible does it Ravi?....this state is controlled by his party....he does something to help out....and his "friends" say fuck you...it aint gonna happen....a "LEADER" would have something to say about that....and the only "Rightwingloons" who would would have something to say....are the "Rightwingers.....and who gives a fuck what they say...

 

[Gatekeeper]

This is as bad as when these tea baggers were protesting last year when 95% of them got rebates.

Idiots.

99.99999% of your posts are total, utter, partisan crap.

Yes, we got the 'rebates'!

That WE the taxpayers PAID FOR out of our own pockets and cost twice that to administrate, yes more intelligent moves our 'leaders' Washington.

I wish many of these people would stop the partisan thinking, our party can do no wrong nonsense, and begin thinking just plain common sense. Why do simple tasks in government have to be dressed up in smoke,mirrors and costly bullshit and then try convincing us they, the politicians, are efficiently running of OUR, OOOOOPS, THEIR government, since it would seem we, the peon citizens, are out of the picture anymore.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I wish many of these people would stop the partisan thinking, our party can do no wrong nonsense, and begin thinking just plain common sense. Why do simple tasks in government have to be dressed up in smoke,mirrors and costly bullshit and then try convincing us they, the politicians, are efficiently running of OUR, OOOOOPS, THEIR government, since it would seem we, the peon citizens, are out of the picture anymore.

unfortunatly to participate here you are going to have to deal with Hacks on both sides....sometimes it can be fun reading their bullshit and watching other posters responding to it.....sometimes i think Rdean is just fucking with us....other times its.....oh geezus he actually believes this shit....i call him names but i actually kinda like the guy...