Talk about fear mongering

Fair enough. So what are they doing about it? How are they safeguarding SS? By doing nothing? It seems that the Democrats policy is to close their eyes, plug their ears and ignore it. Its a ticking time bomb and the Dems want to pretend it isn't an issue. It is going to be a big issue in the future.

Social Security is not a ticking time bomb. Between now and 2085, its cost as a share of GDP will rise about 1.2%. That's why when you look at long-term budget projections from a place like the CBO, they look like this:

EK0223_entitlements_two-thumb-448x228.jpg


Social Security essentially levels off, it's not growing at some out-of-control rate. Rising health care costs are the real ticking time bomb in the U.S., not Social Security.

Given that the problem here is fairly marginal, there are some fairly easy fixes. We can either find some way to cut benefits (e.g. by raising the retirement age, reducing the cost of living adjustments, change the formula for calculating benefits from working years, etc) or raise revenues (e.g. uncap the payroll tax, raise it by 1-2% without uncapping it, etc.) or some combination thereof.

This isn't a crisis, it's just a problem in which doing the necessary tweaking is politically tough. Which is why historically (i.e. in the early 1980s and, perhaps, today) some commission has been convened to make the unpopular suggestion that was then implemented.

You can easily get rid of all future liabilities of the US government by a stroke of a pen, i.e. raising the age of retirement to 80. And I agree that medical liabilities are much worse.

However, those assumptions in that table assume that GDP grows at 4.7% per year. I have to believe that is a nominal figure because no economist in their right mind would assume that the US economy is going to grow at that level after inflation for 75 years. Such forecasting requires some pretty broad assumptions. For example, they assume inflation is stable. Well, maybe, but if you made that assumption in 1945 for the next 75 years, you would have been spectacularly wrong. They make implicit assumptions about demographics. Yet again, in the developed world, population growth has been dramatically slower than what people forecasted 50 years ago. I have little doubt that the productive capacity of the United States is still extremely robust, despite the financial crisis, but the topography of economic growth over the next several generations will almost certainly be different than what is being forecasted. In the 1980s, the Japanese thought they had would have no problems with paying out social security benefits in anyone's lifetimes. Today, total tax revenues in Japan covers interest payments on the debt and social security payments, and that's it.

The system is financially unsound because it is comprised of one asset that can be neither bought nor sold. There is no pension fund in the US that I know of that operates like SS. Such a fund would be illegal if it were run by a corporation. Every state in the union has a real pension fund for its government employees. The typical state pension fund has compounded at 6-7% over the long run compared to 3-4% for SS by investing in a broad array of asset classes, such as stocks, real estate, etc. That 3% differential is enormous when compounded over time. Yes, some state funds are bad, i.e. Illinois, but others are good, i.e. Florida. And you can get around many of the problems with state funds by directly depositing the money paid by social security taxes into the fund. Better yet, give people the choice of whether they want to keep their money in the trust or invest it themselves. You avoid a potential disaster/Japan scenario by getting as much of the liabilities of the United States off the government books. Why is that bad?
 
The problem with Republicans is they are more than willing to make it easier for corporations to move American jobs overseas. We've seen that, very recently in fact. It was called, "The Bush Years".

Instead of "growing" the system here, they only think about how to divide "less" among the American middle class. Where are their ideas for "growing" the American economy.

They are against education. They are against investing in America. What are they for?

More "gravel roads"?

Rural Mich. counties turn failing roads to gravel | roads, mich, counties - Top Stories - WWMT NEWSCHANNEL 3

More than 20 of the state's 83 counties have reverted deteriorating paved roads to gravel in the last few years, according to the County Road Association of Michigan. The counties are struggling with their budgets because tax revenues have declined in the lingering recession.

Shut up fool ,,, until you get a clue you fuckwit.

What kind of response to the issue is this?

Its another of Gunnys well researched, tactful responses on a crucial issue
 
One lie after another. Any lie will do for a Democrat, the party of fear mongering and lying.

Your article offers 4 direct quotes from Obama:

1) Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address Saturday: "We have an obligation to keep that promise, to safeguard Social Security for our seniors, people with disabilities and all Americans — today, tomorrow and forever."

2) Some Republican leaders in Congress are "pushing to make privatizing Social Security a key part of their legislative agenda if they win a majority in Congress this fall," Obama said.

3) He contended that such privatization was "an ill-conceived idea that would add trillions of dollars to our budget deficit while tying your benefits to the whims of Wall Street traders and the ups and downs of the stock market."

4) Obama said he's "committed to working with anyone, Democrat or Republican, who wants to strengthen Social Security."

Which one(s) are you taking issue with?

Is he as committed to working with anyone as he was during the discussion about health care? If so, what he really means is that he will be out playing basketball and golf, and partying a lot, while everyone else gets their positions staked out. He will then step in, take the position that the Democrats have, and claim he tried to work with the other side by asking them to agree with him.

Do you think I am exaggerating his position? If I am, why did he not mention that some Democrats also support the idea, while most Republicans oppose it?
 
The Democrats are dead wrong on this. Social security is broken already. It has to be fixed. The longer we put it off, the worse we're going to be in the end.

SS has to become either a real pension system or something along the lines of a 401k. The math doesn't work for the current system.

The problem with Republicans is they are more than willing to make it easier for corporations to move American jobs overseas. We've seen that, very recently in fact. It was called, "The Bush Years".

Instead of "growing" the system here, they only think about how to divide "less" among the American middle class. Where are their ideas for "growing" the American economy.

They are against education. They are against investing in America. What are they for?

More "gravel roads"?

Rural Mich. counties turn failing roads to gravel | roads, mich, counties - Top Stories - WWMT NEWSCHANNEL 3

More than 20 of the state's 83 counties have reverted deteriorating paved roads to gravel in the last few years, according to the County Road Association of Michigan. The counties are struggling with their budgets because tax revenues have declined in the lingering recession.

You really are consistent about your stupidity, aren't you? The federal government has nothing to do with county roads.
 
Ohh the Republican do not want to destroy SS. Just let private business in on the profits more.

And risk our money on their ventures.

Never use your own money in business.
that is the dividing line between small and large businesses.
 
Last edited:
Obama claims GOP trying to destroy Social Security - Yahoo! News

One lie after another. Any lie will do for a Democrat, the party of fear mongering and lying.
Nope, this is what he actually said.
"One thing we can’t afford to do though is privatize Social Security – an ill-conceived idea that would add trillions of dollars to our budget deficit while tying your benefits to the whims of Wall Street traders and the ups and downs of the stock market."

"Some Republican leaders in Congress don’t seem to have learned any lessons from the past few years. They’re pushing to make privatizing Social Security a key part of their legislative agenda if they win a majority in Congress this fall. It’s right up there on their to-do list with repealing some of the Medicare benefits and reforms that are adding at least a dozen years to the fiscal health of Medicare – the single longest extension in history."

"That agenda is wrong for seniors, it’s wrong for America, and I won’t let it happen. Not while I’m President."
Organizing for America | OFA Blog: On the 75th Anniversary of Social Security: Still Fighting for America's Seniors

John McCain along with many leading Republicans voted for Bush's program to privatize Social Security in 2006. John McCain Revealed: Retirement Security

In her primary race, Angle said that Medicare and Social Security needed to be phased out with a privatized plan put into place. Many Republicans will attempt to cut Social Security under the guise of saving the program even thou the Social Security trustees report that the fund is safe to 2042.

Make no mistake about it, if the Republicans get control of Congress this fall, they will try to privatize social security just as they have tried in the past.

This isn't fear mongering. It's telling it the way it is.
 
Hard to destroy a program that's already insolvent. Politicians are never going to do anything about Social Security other than use it for their own agenda until everybody paying into it finally gets screwed.


FALSE

Paul Craig Roberts served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration earning fame as a co-founder of "Reaganomics"

Wall Street Targets the Elderly

Looting Social Security

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Hank Paulson, the Gold Sacks bankster/US Treasury Secretary, who deregulated the financial system, caused a world crisis that wrecked the prospects of foreign banks and governments, caused millions of Americans to lose retirement savings, homes, and jobs, and left taxpayers burdened with multi-trillions of dollars of new US debt, is still not in jail. He is writing in the New York Times urging that the mess he caused be fixed by taking away from working Americans the Social Security and Medicare for which they have paid in earmarked taxes all their working lives.

Wall Street’s approach to the poor has always been to drive them deeper into the ground.

As there is no money to be made from the poor, Wall Street fleeces them by yanking away their entitlements. It has always been thus. During the Reagan administration, Wall Street decided to boost the values of its bond and stock portfolios by using Social Security revenues to lower budget deficits. Wall Street figured that lower deficits would mean lower interest rates and higher bond and stock prices.

Two Wall Street henchmen, Alan Greenspan and David Stockman, set up the Social Security raid in this way: The Carter administration had put Social Security in the black for the foreseeable future by establishing a schedule for future Social Security payroll tax increases. Greenspan and Stockman conspired to phase in the payroll tax increases earlier than was needed in order to gain surplus Social Security revenues that could be used to finance other government spending, thus reducing the budget deficit. They sold it to President Reagan as “putting Social Security on a sound basis.”

Along the way Americans were told that the surplus revenues were going into a special Social Security trust fund at the U.S. Treasury. But what is in the fund is Treasury IOUs for the spent revenues. When the “trust funds” are needed to pay Social Security benefits, the Treasury will have to sell more debt in order to redeem the IOUs.

Social Security was mugged again during the Clinton administration when the Boskin Commission jimmied the Consumer Price Index in order to reduce the inflation adjustments that Social Security recipients receive, thus diverting money from Social Security retirees to other uses.

We constantly hear from Wall Street gangsters and from Republicans and an occasional Democrat that Social Security and Medicare are a form of welfare that we can’t afford, an “unfunded liability.” This is a lie. Social Security is funded with an earmarked tax. People pay for Social Security and Medicare all their working lives. It is a pay-as-you-go system in which the taxes paid by those working fund those who are retired.

Currently these systems are not in deficit. The problem is that government is using earmarked revenues for other purposes. Indeed, since the 1980s Social Security revenues have been used to fund general government. Today Social Security revenues are being used to fund trillion dollar bailouts for Wall Street and to fund the Bush/Obama wars of aggression against Muslims.

Having diverted Social Security revenues to war and Wall Street, Paulson says there is no alternative but to take the promised benefits away from those who have paid for them.

Republicans have extraordinary animosity toward the poor. In an effort to talk retirees out of their support systems, Republicans frequently describe Social Security as a Ponzi scheme and “unsustainable.” They ought to know. The phony trust fund, which they set up to hide the fact that Wall Street and the Pentagon are running off with Social Security revenues, is a Ponzi scheme. Social Security itself has been with us since the 1930s and has yet to wreck our lives and budget. But it only took Hank Paulson’s derivative Ponzi scheme and its bailout a few years to inflict irreparable damage on our lives and budget.

Years ago with stagflation defeated and a rising stock market, I favored privatizing Social Security as a way of creating a funded retirement system and producing greater savings and larger incomes for retirees. At that time Wall Street was interested, not for my reasons, but in order to collect the fees from managing the funds.

Had Social Security been privatized, I doubt that Wall Street would have been permitted to deregulate the financial system. Too much would have been at stake.

After the latest crisis brought on by Wall Street’s dishonesty and greed, trusting Wall Street to manage anyone’s old age pension requires a leap of faith that no intelligent person can make.

Wall Street has got away with its raid on the public treasury. Now, pockets full, it wants to pay for the heist by curtailing Social Security and Medicare. Having deprived the working population of homes, jobs, and health care, Wall Street is now after the elderly’s old age security.

Social Security, formerly an untouchable “third rail of politics,” is now “unsustainable,” while the real unsustainables--a pre-1929 unregulated financial system and open-ended multi-trillion dollar Global War Against Terror--are the new untouchables. This transformation signals the complete capture of American democracy by an oligarchy of special interests.
 
Hard to destroy a program that's already insolvent. Politicians are never going to do anything about Social Security other than use it for their own agenda until everybody paying into it finally gets screwed.


FALSE

Paul Craig Roberts served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration earning fame as a co-founder of "Reaganomics"

Wall Street Targets the Elderly

Looting Social Security

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Hank Paulson, the Gold Sacks bankster/US Treasury Secretary, who deregulated the financial system, caused a world crisis that wrecked the prospects of foreign banks and governments, caused millions of Americans to lose retirement savings, homes, and jobs, and left taxpayers burdened with multi-trillions of dollars of new US debt, is still not in jail. He is writing in the New York Times urging that the mess he caused be fixed by taking away from working Americans the Social Security and Medicare for which they have paid in earmarked taxes all their working lives.

Wall Street’s approach to the poor has always been to drive them deeper into the ground.

As there is no money to be made from the poor, Wall Street fleeces them by yanking away their entitlements. It has always been thus. During the Reagan administration, Wall Street decided to boost the values of its bond and stock portfolios by using Social Security revenues to lower budget deficits. Wall Street figured that lower deficits would mean lower interest rates and higher bond and stock prices.

Two Wall Street henchmen, Alan Greenspan and David Stockman, set up the Social Security raid in this way: The Carter administration had put Social Security in the black for the foreseeable future by establishing a schedule for future Social Security payroll tax increases. Greenspan and Stockman conspired to phase in the payroll tax increases earlier than was needed in order to gain surplus Social Security revenues that could be used to finance other government spending, thus reducing the budget deficit. They sold it to President Reagan as “putting Social Security on a sound basis.”

Along the way Americans were told that the surplus revenues were going into a special Social Security trust fund at the U.S. Treasury. But what is in the fund is Treasury IOUs for the spent revenues. When the “trust funds” are needed to pay Social Security benefits, the Treasury will have to sell more debt in order to redeem the IOUs.

Social Security was mugged again during the Clinton administration when the Boskin Commission jimmied the Consumer Price Index in order to reduce the inflation adjustments that Social Security recipients receive, thus diverting money from Social Security retirees to other uses.

We constantly hear from Wall Street gangsters and from Republicans and an occasional Democrat that Social Security and Medicare are a form of welfare that we can’t afford, an “unfunded liability.” This is a lie. Social Security is funded with an earmarked tax. People pay for Social Security and Medicare all their working lives. It is a pay-as-you-go system in which the taxes paid by those working fund those who are retired.

Currently these systems are not in deficit. The problem is that government is using earmarked revenues for other purposes. Indeed, since the 1980s Social Security revenues have been used to fund general government. Today Social Security revenues are being used to fund trillion dollar bailouts for Wall Street and to fund the Bush/Obama wars of aggression against Muslims.

Having diverted Social Security revenues to war and Wall Street, Paulson says there is no alternative but to take the promised benefits away from those who have paid for them.

Republicans have extraordinary animosity toward the poor. In an effort to talk retirees out of their support systems, Republicans frequently describe Social Security as a Ponzi scheme and “unsustainable.” They ought to know. The phony trust fund, which they set up to hide the fact that Wall Street and the Pentagon are running off with Social Security revenues, is a Ponzi scheme. Social Security itself has been with us since the 1930s and has yet to wreck our lives and budget. But it only took Hank Paulson’s derivative Ponzi scheme and its bailout a few years to inflict irreparable damage on our lives and budget.

Years ago with stagflation defeated and a rising stock market, I favored privatizing Social Security as a way of creating a funded retirement system and producing greater savings and larger incomes for retirees. At that time Wall Street was interested, not for my reasons, but in order to collect the fees from managing the funds.

Had Social Security been privatized, I doubt that Wall Street would have been permitted to deregulate the financial system. Too much would have been at stake.

After the latest crisis brought on by Wall Street’s dishonesty and greed, trusting Wall Street to manage anyone’s old age pension requires a leap of faith that no intelligent person can make.

Wall Street has got away with its raid on the public treasury. Now, pockets full, it wants to pay for the heist by curtailing Social Security and Medicare. Having deprived the working population of homes, jobs, and health care, Wall Street is now after the elderly’s old age security.

Social Security, formerly an untouchable “third rail of politics,” is now “unsustainable,” while the real unsustainables--a pre-1929 unregulated financial system and open-ended multi-trillion dollar Global War Against Terror--are the new untouchables. This transformation signals the complete capture of American democracy by an oligarchy of special interests.

Ok, politicians robbed the Social Security fund, thus making it insolvent.
 
One lie after another. Any lie will do for a Democrat, the party of fear mongering and lying.

Your article offers 4 direct quotes from Obama:

1) Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address Saturday: "We have an obligation to keep that promise, to safeguard Social Security for our seniors, people with disabilities and all Americans — today, tomorrow and forever."

2) Some Republican leaders in Congress are "pushing to make privatizing Social Security a key part of their legislative agenda if they win a majority in Congress this fall," Obama said.

3) He contended that such privatization was "an ill-conceived idea that would add trillions of dollars to our budget deficit while tying your benefits to the whims of Wall Street traders and the ups and downs of the stock market."

4) Obama said he's "committed to working with anyone, Democrat or Republican, who wants to strengthen Social Security."

Which one(s) are you taking issue with?

Is he as committed to working with anyone as he was during the discussion about health care? If so, what he really means is that he will be out playing basketball and golf, and partying a lot, while everyone else gets their positions staked out. He will then step in, take the position that the Democrats have, and claim he tried to work with the other side by asking them to agree with him.

Do you think I am exaggerating his position? If I am, why did he not mention that some Democrats also support the idea, while most Republicans oppose it?

QWB, what a jerk, supposing that a majority-elected Democratic president is going to let minority GOP dictate, rather than work with, what the majority will do. The GOP lost the election because the American people had enough of the far right dictating GOP stupidity. When the McConnells, Boehners, Gohmerts, and the others are gone and when the GOP is willing to represent the People instead of Big Business, then we will be doing what we should be doing.

You, QWB, are fear mongering by distorting what is happening. You can have your opinion but you have to be fair to the facts and you haven't done that.
 
Roberts article is full of half truths and ad hominem attacks.

He's no better than Anne Coulter.

No better than that guy Coulter? WOW...

No Toro, the half truths and NO truths that have been perpetrated on the American people for decades by the right and Republicans is this whole idea of privatization. The 'magic' hand of the market is a carpet ride to utopia.

With privatization, the taxpayers not only have to subsidize operating costs, they also subsidize PROFITS. And the entitlement programs' operating costs are LOWER than private entities.

We can only imagine in horror the consequences if Bush had been successful privatizing Social Security prior to the crash and burn we just lived through

It's a lose/lose enema stuck in our asses by Wall Street gangsters and Republicans.
 
The goal is to socialize the risk and privatize the profit.

Nuts, let those freaks get out in the real work and make a living instead of sucking off the taxpayer.
 
Roberts article is full of half truths and ad hominem attacks.

He's no better than Anne Coulter.

No better than that guy Coulter? WOW...

No Toro, the half truths and NO truths that have been perpetrated on the American people for decades by the right and Republicans is this whole idea of privatization. The 'magic' hand of the market is a carpet ride to utopia.

With privatization, the taxpayers not only have to subsidize operating costs, they also subsidize PROFITS. And the entitlement programs' operating costs are LOWER than private entities.

We can only imagine in horror the consequences if Bush had been successful privatizing Social Security prior to the crash and burn we just lived through

It's a lose/lose enema stuck in our asses by Wall Street gangsters and Republicans.

Look, I'm no friend of Wall Street nor the Republicans, but to say that Paulson should be in jail is shrill nonsense.

His statement that Wall Street "decided" to boost stock and market values to loot social security is deranged bullshit, and betrays his utter lack of knowledge of how markets work.

He makes unsubstantiated claims about altering the CPI to lower SS payments. Some have made that allegation, but to say it worth certainty and weave it into a conspiracy is laughable.

He makes tenuous connections between the funds of social security and what they are used for. He doesn't even seem to understand the nature of the debt that he is ranting about.

His overarching thesis about deregulation and privatizing SS is beyond strange.

He's a shrill hack making wild allegations. He's no better than Anne Coulter.
 
Roberts article is full of half truths and ad hominem attacks.

He's no better than Anne Coulter.

No better than that guy Coulter? WOW...

No Toro, the half truths and NO truths that have been perpetrated on the American people for decades by the right and Republicans is this whole idea of privatization. The 'magic' hand of the market is a carpet ride to utopia.

With privatization, the taxpayers not only have to subsidize operating costs, they also subsidize PROFITS. And the entitlement programs' operating costs are LOWER than private entities.

We can only imagine in horror the consequences if Bush had been successful privatizing Social Security prior to the crash and burn we just lived through

It's a lose/lose enema stuck in our asses by Wall Street gangsters and Republicans.

Look, I'm no friend of Wall Street nor the Republicans, but to say that Paulson should be in jail is shrill nonsense.

His statement that Wall Street "decided" to boost stock and market values to loot social security is deranged bullshit, and betrays his utter lack of knowledge of how markets work.

He makes unsubstantiated claims about altering the CPI to lower SS payments. Some have made that allegation, but to say it worth certainty and weave it into a conspiracy is laughable.

He makes tenuous connections between the funds of social security and what they are used for. He doesn't even seem to understand the nature of the debt that he is ranting about.

His overarching thesis about deregulation and privatizing SS is beyond strange.

He's a shrill hack making wild allegations. He's no better than Anne Coulter.

There is one big difference...he was THERE...

Paul Craig Roberts
United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy
In office - 1981–1982
President - Ronald Reagan

Paul Craig Roberts served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration earning fame as a co-founder of "Reaganomics."
 

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