Taliban split with Al Qaeda; Seek Peace

Typical Western colonial mindset and hubris

"We know what's best for you. Even though your culture is thousands of years old. Everything you do is so wrong. We are smarter, and besides, we have modern technology. So you must change to OUR way of thinking and lifestyle".

Ah, Sunni...that's typical of ALL systems, isn't it?

Islam didn't spread over 2/3s of the globe in acentury because of the power of it arguments, it spread largely by the power of the scimitar.

Do bear in mind that at one time North Africa and the Mid east was mostly inhabited by Christians,

And had it not been for folks like Charles (the hammer) Martel, Islam would have established itself in Europe via the same gentle means of persuasion, too.

You knew this, right?
 
Typical Western colonial mindset and hubris

"We know what's best for you. Even though your culture is thousands of years old. Everything you do is so wrong. We are smarter, and besides, we have modern technology. So you must change to OUR way of thinking and lifestyle".
what culture is thousands of years old? the muslim culture or islam or sharia law?

sheesh....so ill informed! :eusa_eh:
 
Ah, Sunni...that's typical of ALL systems, isn't it?

Islam didn't spread over 2/3s of the globe in acentury because of the power of it arguments, it spread largely by the power of the scimitar.

Do bear in mind that at one time North Africa and the Mid east was mostly inhabited by Christians,

And had it not been for folks like Charles (the hammer) Martel, Islam would have established itself in Europe via the same gentle means of persuasion, too.

You knew this, right?
Actually, your veiw is highly Eurocentric. Yes, there was fighting in North Africia and parts of the ME and Europe. But Islam was NOT spread by the sword as the popular media says.

Islam mainly spread through merchants and traders. Indonesia which is mainly Islamic and has the largest Muslim population in the world, and Malyasia, wich is totally Islamic, are two examples of Islams spread by traders.

Also, China, Russia, and India, have very large Muslim populations which came about by the peoples contact with Muslim merchants. Not by warfare or the sword.

Many African countries are Muslim because of trade contacts also.

The 2/3's world wide spread of Islam by the sword is one of the Big lies of Western history.

But saddly, most people believe the sword non sense. All Muslims know that conversion to Islam by force is forbidden by the Quran, and and conversion done this way is invalid.
 
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The Population Bomb ― Why Islam World's Fastest-growing Religion
by Swadhin

09 May, 2007

The best way to describe the most powerful weapon aiding the advent of the evil ideology of Islam is the late Yasser Arafat's statement that his greatest asset and weapon was not any militant group but the Arab mother. Arafat knew, as we must know, that the rate of reproduction of Muslims threatens to make Israel a Muslim-majority state by the end of the century! No need for any serious diplomacy or peace deals - just keep the mania going for a few more decades, and Israeli Muslims will be powerful enough to force the Jews into submission.

The prospect of this demographic, population "jihad" - multiplying to increase the Muslim community's political power - is a disgusting but the most powerful, final weapon in the armory of Islam's evil armies. Aided by social and cultural factors, Muslim men and women are encouraged by religious leaders to procreate more, have as many children as possible, in order to overwhelm the "Kaffirs." Such tactics are endorsed by the (Un) holy Qur'an, which instructs Muslims to always bear enmity towards the "Kaffirs," to lie and deceive in order to serve Allah's cause, to enslave them and spill their blood. Some major examples of the population bomb are:
- India has a resident Muslim population that is procreating twice as rapidly as its Hindu population. A news documentary by an Indian news channel STAR News (now NDTV) on the population problem reveals that Muslims are refusing/rejecting family planning schemes owing to the instructions of their religious leaders that increasing the population will empower Indian Muslims to take over the government. In addition, Bangladesh has sent more than 20 million of its own nationals into northeastern India - the states of Assam, Tripura, Meghalaya, West Bengal, Arunachal Pradesh and Nagaland are already flooded by Bengali Muslims, who will soon become the majorities.

- The rapid decline of native populations is making it a real threat that France, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Britain, Ireland and some other European nations may become Muslim-majority by the end of the century. The indigenous peoples of Europe will be reduced to minorities or pluralities in their own homeland.

- The populations of Russia and China are also declining, while their native Muslim populations are growing at twice or thrice the national average.

- The Muslim populations in the U.S. and Canada are rapidly growing. The Muslim population will have overtaken the Jewish population in the U.S. by the next decade. As was evident in a 2004 conference held by the Democratic Party for the Arab American community, politicians like Howard Dean, who pledged "impartiality" and "neutrality" of the U.S., will help remove the last protector and friend of Israel.

www.islam-watch.org/.../Islam-Population-Bomb-Fastest-growing-Religion.htm
 
what culture is thousands of years old?
If you read the preceding post, I was refering to Afghanistain. But the same could be said of Iraq, Iran, and many other countries.

Islam is only a little over 1400 years old. But there were obviously people with ancient cultures lthousands of years old iving there before the arrival of Islam.
 
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Actually, your veiw is highly Eurocentric. Yes, there was fighting in North Africia and parts of the ME and Europe. But Islam was NOT spread by the sword as the popular media says.
Blather. You really have no respect for the history of Islam, do you?

You want me to start quote Islamic historians who outlined in excellent historic detail the numerous wars of expansion that took Islam from the religions of one tribe of Bedoins and made it a world class religion?

I can, you know.

Unlike you, Islamic historians are thoughly honest folk, and quite proud of their religion's victorious and often noble history.

They document their military victories just as seriously as any Christian historian does, and about this history there really is very little debate among historians of either religion.

To some extent Islam spread though trade, and to some extend Islam spread though very astute diplomacy, to be sure. Many Slvic converts to Islam did so because their choice was to become part of an even less civilized Christian nation, I am fully aware of that.

But the history of Islam spans nearly 1400 years.

And the early history of Islam, (even up to the 16th century) no less than the later history of Chistendom, is the history of the conquest and conversion by the sword, or by intimidation and exclusion of the conquored peoples from meaningful participation in an Ilamic dominated society by those who refused to convert.

This is NOT an EUROCENTRIC view of history, champ.

Maybe you ought to spend some time reading Islamic historians just to convince youself about that.
 
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Was Islam Spread by the Sword?


It is a common misconception with some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force.

The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.

Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths. Freedom of religion is ordained in the Quran itself:

“There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong.” (Quran 2:256)

The noted historian De Lacy O’Leary wrote:[1] “History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book Heroes and Hero worship, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: “The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one; in one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and tries to propagate with that will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.”

If Islam was spread by the sword, it was the sword of intellect and convincing arguments. It is this sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Quran says in this connection:

“Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best.” (Quran 16:125)

The facts speak for themselves
· Indonesia is the country that has the largest number of Muslims in the world, and the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. But, no Muslim army ever went to Indonesia or Malaysia. It is an established historical fact that Indonesia entered Islam not due to war, but because of its moral message. Despite the disappearance of Islamic government from many regions once ruled by it, their original inhabitants have remained Muslims. Moreover, they carried the message of truth, inviting others to it as well, and in so doing endured harm, affliction and oppression. The same can be said for those in the regions of Syria and Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, North Africa, Asia, the Balkans and in Spain. This shows that the effect of Islam on the population was one of moral conviction, in contrast to occupation by western colonialists, finally compelled to leave lands whose peoples held only memories of affliction, sorrow, subjugation and oppression.

· Muslims ruled Spain (Andalusia) for about 800 years. During this period the Christians and Jews enjoyed freedom to practice their respective religions, and this is a documented historical fact.

· Christian and Jewish minorities have survived in the Muslim lands of the Middle East for centuries. Countries such as Egypt, Morocco, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan all have significant Christian and Jewish populations.

· Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years, and therefore had the power to force each and every non-Muslim of India to convert to Islam, but they did not, and thus more than 80% of the Indian population remains non-Muslim.

· Similarly, Islam spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. And likewise no Muslim army was ever dispatched to the East Coast of Africa.

· An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, yearbook 1986, gives the statistics of the increase of the percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in The Plain Truth magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, while Christianity had increased by 47%. During this fifty-year period, there was no “Islamic conquest” yet Islam spread at an extraordinary rate.

· Today the fastest growing religion in America and Europe is Islam. The Muslims in these lands are a minority. The only sword they have in their possession is the sword of truth. It is this sword that is converting thousands to Islam.

· Islamic law protects the privileged status of minorities, and that is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world. Islamic law also allows non-Muslim minorities to set up their own courts, which implement family laws drawn up by the minorities themselves. The life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred whether they are Muslims or not.

Conclusion
It is clear, therefore, that Islam did not spread by the sword. The “sword of Islam” did not convert all the non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries. In India, where Muslims ruled for 800 years, they are still a minority. In the U.S.A., Islam is the fastest growing religion and has over six million followers.

In his book The World’s Religions, Huston Smith discusses how the prophet Muhammad granted freedom of religion to the Jews and Christians under Muslim rule:

The Prophet had a document drawn up in which he stipulated that Jews and Christians “shall be protected from all insults and harm; they shall have an equal right with our own people to our assistance and good offices,” and further, “they shall practice their religion as freely as the Muslims.”[2]

Smith points out that Muslims regard that document as the first charter of freedom of conscience in human history and the authoritative model for those of every subsequent Muslim state.

Footnotes:
[1] In his book Islam at the Crossroads, p.8.

[2] Quoted in The World’s Religions by Huston Smith, Harper Collins, 1991, p. 256

The Religion of Islam - Was Islam Spread by the Sword?
 
Was Islam Spread by the Sword?


It is a common misconception with some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force.

The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.

Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths. Freedom of religion is ordained in the Quran itself:

“There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong.” (Quran 2:256)

The noted historian De Lacy O’Leary wrote:[1] “History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book Heroes and Hero worship, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: “The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one; in one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and tries to propagate with that will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.”

If Islam was spread by the sword, it was the sword of intellect and convincing arguments. It is this sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Quran says in this connection:

“Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best.” (Quran 16:125)

The facts speak for themselves
· Indonesia is the country that has the largest number of Muslims in the world, and the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. But, no Muslim army ever went to Indonesia or Malaysia. It is an established historical fact that Indonesia entered Islam not due to war, but because of its moral message. Despite the disappearance of Islamic government from many regions once ruled by it, their original inhabitants have remained Muslims. Moreover, they carried the message of truth, inviting others to it as well, and in so doing endured harm, affliction and oppression. The same can be said for those in the regions of Syria and Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, North Africa, Asia, the Balkans and in Spain. This shows that the effect of Islam on the population was one of moral conviction, in contrast to occupation by western colonialists, finally compelled to leave lands whose peoples held only memories of affliction, sorrow, subjugation and oppression.

· Muslims ruled Spain (Andalusia) for about 800 years. During this period the Christians and Jews enjoyed freedom to practice their respective religions, and this is a documented historical fact.

· Christian and Jewish minorities have survived in the Muslim lands of the Middle East for centuries. Countries such as Egypt, Morocco, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan all have significant Christian and Jewish populations.

· Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years, and therefore had the power to force each and every non-Muslim of India to convert to Islam, but they did not, and thus more than 80% of the Indian population remains non-Muslim.

· Similarly, Islam spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. And likewise no Muslim army was ever dispatched to the East Coast of Africa.

· An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, yearbook 1986, gives the statistics of the increase of the percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in The Plain Truth magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, while Christianity had increased by 47%. During this fifty-year period, there was no “Islamic conquest” yet Islam spread at an extraordinary rate.

· Today the fastest growing religion in America and Europe is Islam. The Muslims in these lands are a minority. The only sword they have in their possession is the sword of truth. It is this sword that is converting thousands to Islam.

· Islamic law protects the privileged status of minorities, and that is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world. Islamic law also allows non-Muslim minorities to set up their own courts, which implement family laws drawn up by the minorities themselves. The life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred whether they are Muslims or not.

Conclusion
It is clear, therefore, that Islam did not spread by the sword. The “sword of Islam” did not convert all the non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries. In India, where Muslims ruled for 800 years, they are still a minority. In the U.S.A., Islam is the fastest growing religion and has over six million followers.

In his book The World’s Religions, Huston Smith discusses how the prophet Muhammad granted freedom of religion to the Jews and Christians under Muslim rule:

The Prophet had a document drawn up in which he stipulated that Jews and Christians “shall be protected from all insults and harm; they shall have an equal right with our own people to our assistance and good offices,” and further, “they shall practice their religion as freely as the Muslims.”[2]

Smith points out that Muslims regard that document as the first charter of freedom of conscience in human history and the authoritative model for those of every subsequent Muslim state.

Footnotes:
[1] In his book Islam at the Crossroads, p.8.

[2] Quoted in The World’s Religions by Huston Smith, Harper Collins, 1991, p. 256

The Religion of Islam - Was Islam Spread by the Sword?
Islam has no one to blame but themselves for their PR problems. Islamic leaders could have suppressed the militants that perverted their religion at a time when their faith was under scrutiny by the entire western nations. Yet they did nothing to fix their image.
 
Islam has no one to blame but themselves for their PR problems. Islamic leaders could have suppressed the militants that perverted their religion at a time when their faith was under scrutiny by the entire western nations. Yet they did nothing to fix their image.
We are NOT going to change anything just because of bad press in the morally bankrupt West.

We actually don't care about the lies and bad PR by the Zionist owned and controlled media here in the US.

Believe me, you seem to care alot more about it than we do!!
 
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We are NOT going to change anything just because of bad press in the morally bankrupt West.

We actually don't care about the lies and bad PR by the Zionist owned and controlled media here in the US.

Believe me, you seem to care alot more about it than we do!!

I don't think he asked you to change anything I believe he said that the problem is not with your religion but the problem is with those who pervert your religion to excuse terrorism and cruel acts against humanity. Also your religious leaders could have seperated from and dissolved the extremist who perverted your religion causing the undue tensions in the middle east.
 
I don't think he asked you to change anything I believe he said that the problem is not with your religion but the problem is with those who pervert your religion to excuse terrorism and cruel acts against humanity. Also your religious leaders could have seperated from and dissolved the extremist who perverted your religion causing the undue tensions in the middle east.
I see no problem with Islam or how it is practiced or represented.

The tensions in the Middle East are caused by the Zionists in Israel and the illegal foreign troops in Islamic countries.
 
SURAH 47: MUHAMMAD or AL QITAL (The Fighting).

47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.


47:8 But those who reject (Allah),- for them is destruction, and (Allah) will render their deeds astray (from their mark).

47:34 Those who reject Allah, and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, then die rejecting Allah,- Allah will not forgive them.

The Koran teaches that Islam should be the only religion in the world. It teaches that all Muslims should fight against all non-Muslims until everyone in the world is forced, by either warfare or peaceful means, to become Muslims and live according to Islamic law as it is recorded in the Koran and other Islamic writings (See the Koran in surah 47:1-6 and surah 8:38-39).
Muhammad (Arabic: سورة محمد Muḥammad) is the 47th sura of the Qur'an with 38 ayat.

The surah orders believers to obey Muhammad and not to reject any part of what he has revealed, as well as to "smite" and "subdue" the "unbelievers" in battle.

Sunni, your still trying to tell tow the propaganda line I see. Your stale comeback about our western arguements are wrong because we get the information from Western sources always seems to make me chuckle , because even when I show you the Koran and the wording is obvious that the middle age image of Islam with a sword in one hand and a Koran in the other is only a vision taken from the Koran itself. I suppose that walking on a 747 full of innocent people with a hand held radio packed with C-4 and then blowing it up over Scottland is a peaceful way to convert the non-believers? Perhaps, you meant the pilot of the Egypt Air 767 who flew it into the Atlantic with over 200 people on board , that must be what you mean by peaceful. Then again there is always those peaceful men who were simple pilots who accidently flew aircraft into the World Trade Center all in the name of peace , to convert the non-believers.
 
I see no problem with Islam or how it is practiced or represented.

The tensions in the Middle East are caused by the Zionists in Israel and the illegal foreign troops in Islamic countries.

So you have no problem with the people of your religion killing each other by the thousands in the name of the same religion?
 
Navy1960 the two verwses from the Quran that you posted to back up you anti Islamic hysteria are as follows:

47:8 But those who reject (Allah),- for them is destruction, and (Allah) will render their deeds astray (from their mark).

47:34 Those who reject Allah, and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, then die rejecting Allah,- Allah will not forgive them.


Navy1960 there is NOTHING here telling people to kill other people for Islam as you alledge.

The verses say that "Allah" will take judgment on them for rejecting Islam and punish them..

The Bible basically says the same thing for those who reject Christianity. God will judge and punish them.
 
We are NOT going to change anything just because of bad press in the morally bankrupt West.

We actually don't care about the lies and bad PR by the Zionist owned and controlled media here in the US.

Believe me, you seem to care alot more about it than we do!!

If they are lies, you might want to care considering the TSP, GITMO, and the invasion of two Islamic countries.
 

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