Take the guns first, due process second.

[OldLady]

one of the first things trump did when he got the keys to the white house:

Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Christopher Wilson
Senior Writer
Yahoo NewsAugust 5, 2019

In the wake of this weekend’s mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, President Trump was quick to point to mental illness as a cause, echoing a Republican talking point that emerged in interviews and social media posts on Sunday.

“Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun,” said Trump in a speech Monday morning from the White House. He said the country “must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms, and that, if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process.”

But in his first full month in office, Trump signed a bill rolling back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with mental illnesses to purchase firearms. The rule would have used Social Security records to add about 75,000 names to the database used in background checks of gun buyers (from licensed firearms dealers). People receiving supplemental-income support for mental disability and those found unfit to handle their own financial affairs would have been precluded from purchasing firearms. While the rule went on the books just before Trump took office in January 2017, compliance was not mandatory until December 2017.
[...]
Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Of those 75,000, have any done anything to justify their names being added to a data base of any kind?

I agree with you. I have worked with a lot of people with a "mental health" SSI disability. Most of them are not dangerous in the least. However, those mentally incompetent enough to lose their rights? That's a real high bar in a court of law, and if they can't be trusted to make decisions for themselves, they don't need to be trusted with a decision about who to shoot, either.

There's also a huge problem here with Mental Health being anyone's ringer, to begin with.

Some of a psychotropic drugs' side effects, are: manic, violent behavior.

Now - in some cases, these psychotropic side-effects occur in one in 2-million folks... that experience this side effect, so we deem the drugs okay to use. I'd agree with doing that, statistically. It's so rare, that it's not right at all to limit the other 1, 999, 999 other folks that won't experience this sort of side effect.

But I'm employing the same logic within the gun debate. It's very rare, even more rare than the statistic of folks that experience violent side-effects on these drugs, for someone to become a mass shooter. Not only that, but most of the folks are either pre-determined to have had a mental illness, or determined as much after the shootings. Something like 94% of shooters? (I'm going off memory)

So - we have a problem that really might be impossible to resolve. I guess we can employ mitigating factors. I dunno if there's any good answer.

You've lost me. ERPO is about individuals exhibiting homicidal/suicidal behavior. One person at a time. I'm not sure how statistical rarity of mass shootings factors into that at all.

Oh -

To be more clear - - - my point was that if I were to address the camp that wants to point to mental health as one of the underlying factors of mass shootings (which I'd agree with, they're all mentally ill)...

I'd say it's worth-noting/consideration that one of the ways we ADDRESS mental health is to prescribe medications... which have manic/violent behavior listed as some of their side effects.

So the statistics are... that the side effects rarely occur............and we USE the fact that they're rare to justify continuing to approve of giving the Meds....

Mass shootings are also rare, even rarer than these medicinal side effects.

I wonder how many shooters were, or have been in the past, on any psychotropic medications? I'd love to know that percentage, I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

Aiming high, if we really want to address the issue of people needlessly dying - we can look to statistics and tackle the issues in order...beginning with the ones that'd give us our biggest statistically (positive) outcome...but there's got to be a line drawn...not some vague line but a definitive line...as to how far we'd go to limit freedoms to prevent deaths or other negative outcomes. I think the right is usually on "your liberty ends where it negatively effects mine," as the line they draw. It makes good sense to me, but I'd like to see a definitive line on all sides promoting that we "do something" when "x-occurs."

I'd like to see a definitive line on all sides promoting that we "do something" when "x-occurs."
That would be great. If the Red Flag law was national, it would be a lot easier to discuss particulars, because all 17 states that have such a law have different versions. Some limit reports to family members or law enforcement, some restrict it to law enforcement only. Others include school administrators and mental health professionals.

 

[Crixus]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

No. Are you good with the demoncraps doing the same thing?

So is it okay if a republican does?

 

[Crixus]

My understanding is that such an emergency order would be based on pretty substantial evidence to start with, Crixus.

You mean like the evidence Obama's DOJ and FBI had they used to get FISA Warrants to spy on Trump's team....? This is the same govt whose CIA was forced to admit they illegally spied on US Senators and even USSC Justices....

Just Sayin'...

And took over healthcare and so on. There is not one thing the government has gotten right.

 

[Rustic]

My understanding is that such an emergency order would be based on pretty substantial evidence to start with, Crixus.

You mean like the evidence Obama's DOJ and FBI had they used to get FISA Warrants to spy on Trump's team....? This is the same govt whose CIA was forced to admit they illegally spied on US Senators and even USSC Justices....

Just Sayin'...

And took over healthcare and so on. There is not one thing the government has gotten right.

If you want to fuck something up let the federal government do it...

There is no reason for the laws to be the same in urban and rural areas.
just asking for disaster if anybody wants that

 

[JusticeHammer]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

No. Are you good with the demoncraps doing the same thing?

So is it okay if a republican does?

I answered the question. You're turn coward.

 

[Crixus]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

No. Are you good with the demoncraps doing the same thing?

So is it okay if a republican does?

I answered the question. You're turn coward.

What did you answer you brainless slave? The question was t what did Trumps cock fast like. I doubt you know, but we all know you really would like to. At any rate, your orange Jesus just told you he would take your guns. And your stupid ass laps it up like a good hamster.

 

[JusticeHammer]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

No. Are you good with the demoncraps doing the same thing?

So is it okay if a republican does?

I answered the question. You're turn coward.

What did you answer you brainless slave? The question was t what did Trumps cock fast like. I doubt you know, but we all know you really would like to. At any rate, your orange Jesus just told you he would take your guns. And your stupid ass laps it up like a good hamster.

Yeah, you just proved how unintelligent and unhinged you are. Goodnight scumbag.

 

[Crixus]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

No. Are you good with the demoncraps doing the same thing?

So is it okay if a republican does?

I answered the question. You're turn coward.

What did you answer you brainless slave? The question was t what did Trumps cock fast like. I doubt you know, but we all know you really would like to. At any rate, your orange Jesus just told you he would take your guns. And your stupid ass laps it up like a good hamster.

Yeah, you just proved how unintelligent and unhinged you are. Goodnight scumbag.

Trumpkin elected a gun banner. Tell the truth, you really are an Obama guy aren't you? Pay attention all. Right here before yalls eyes you get to see where a trumpkin stands when his president says he will ban guns. Teumpkins are the new FUDS.

 

[JusticeHammer]

No. Are you good with the demoncraps doing the same thing?

So is it okay if a republican does?

I answered the question. You're turn coward.

What did you answer you brainless slave? The question was t what did Trumps cock fast like. I doubt you know, but we all know you really would like to. At any rate, your orange Jesus just told you he would take your guns. And your stupid ass laps it up like a good hamster.

Yeah, you just proved how unintelligent and unhinged you are. Goodnight scumbag.

Trumpkin elected a gun banner. Tell the truth, you really are an Obama guy aren't you? Pay attention all. Right here before yalls eyes you get to see where a trumpkin stands when his president says he will ban guns. Teumpkins are the new FUDS.

You're an idiot. Go Trump, Dems suck.

 

[playtime]

one of the first things trump did when he got the keys to the white house:

Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Christopher Wilson
Senior Writer
Yahoo NewsAugust 5, 2019

In the wake of this weekend’s mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, President Trump was quick to point to mental illness as a cause, echoing a Republican talking point that emerged in interviews and social media posts on Sunday.

“Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun,” said Trump in a speech Monday morning from the White House. He said the country “must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms, and that, if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process.”

But in his first full month in office, Trump signed a bill rolling back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with mental illnesses to purchase firearms. The rule would have used Social Security records to add about 75,000 names to the database used in background checks of gun buyers (from licensed firearms dealers). People receiving supplemental-income support for mental disability and those found unfit to handle their own financial affairs would have been precluded from purchasing firearms. While the rule went on the books just before Trump took office in January 2017, compliance was not mandatory until December 2017.
[...]
Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Of those 75,000, have any done anything to justify their names being added to a data base of any kind?

if they are incapable to be in charge of their OWN FINANCES, that should clue you in. are you saying despite that, some should be in charge of a deadly weapon?

 

[playtime]

one of the first things trump did when he got the keys to the white house:

Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Christopher Wilson
Senior Writer
Yahoo NewsAugust 5, 2019

In the wake of this weekend’s mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, President Trump was quick to point to mental illness as a cause, echoing a Republican talking point that emerged in interviews and social media posts on Sunday.

“Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun,” said Trump in a speech Monday morning from the White House. He said the country “must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms, and that, if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process.”

But in his first full month in office, Trump signed a bill rolling back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with mental illnesses to purchase firearms. The rule would have used Social Security records to add about 75,000 names to the database used in background checks of gun buyers (from licensed firearms dealers). People receiving supplemental-income support for mental disability and those found unfit to handle their own financial affairs would have been precluded from purchasing firearms. While the rule went on the books just before Trump took office in January 2017, compliance was not mandatory until December 2017.
[...]
Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

lol
Obama was clueless on the issue, Gun control to him was never about guns… It was always about control

 

[playtime]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

RW's didn't moan a single peep when Romney put a ban on military weapons in Mass.

if you actually believe they're going to pull their lips off of Trumps fat ass and speak out REGARDLESS what he does to gun rights you're kidding yourself.

ronny reagan banned assault rifles & W. let them back on the market.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

The alternative is complete ban and confiscation, so what do you expect?

.

 

[playtime]

one of the first things trump did when he got the keys to the white house:

Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Christopher Wilson
Senior Writer
Yahoo NewsAugust 5, 2019

In the wake of this weekend’s mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, President Trump was quick to point to mental illness as a cause, echoing a Republican talking point that emerged in interviews and social media posts on Sunday.

“Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun,” said Trump in a speech Monday morning from the White House. He said the country “must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms, and that, if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process.”

But in his first full month in office, Trump signed a bill rolling back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with mental illnesses to purchase firearms. The rule would have used Social Security records to add about 75,000 names to the database used in background checks of gun buyers (from licensed firearms dealers). People receiving supplemental-income support for mental disability and those found unfit to handle their own financial affairs would have been precluded from purchasing firearms. While the rule went on the books just before Trump took office in January 2017, compliance was not mandatory until December 2017.
[...]
Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Please point out any of the changes that Trump made that affected the shooters in El Paso and Dayton? I'll wait.

they weren't part of the 75K, & loooooopholes.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

RW's didn't moan a single peep when Romney put a ban on military weapons in Mass.

if you actually believe they're going to pull their lips off of Trumps fat ass and speak out REGARDLESS what he does to gun rights you're kidding yourself.

ronny reagan banned assault rifles & W. let them back on the market.

And, Fuck Ronny Reagan's racist gun-grabbing ass.

.

 

[Crixus]

one of the first things trump did when he got the keys to the white house:

Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Christopher Wilson
Senior Writer
Yahoo NewsAugust 5, 2019

In the wake of this weekend’s mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, President Trump was quick to point to mental illness as a cause, echoing a Republican talking point that emerged in interviews and social media posts on Sunday.

“Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun,” said Trump in a speech Monday morning from the White House. He said the country “must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms, and that, if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process.”

But in his first full month in office, Trump signed a bill rolling back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with mental illnesses to purchase firearms. The rule would have used Social Security records to add about 75,000 names to the database used in background checks of gun buyers (from licensed firearms dealers). People receiving supplemental-income support for mental disability and those found unfit to handle their own financial affairs would have been precluded from purchasing firearms. While the rule went on the books just before Trump took office in January 2017, compliance was not mandatory until December 2017.
[...]
Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Of those 75,000, have any done anything to justify their names being added to a data base of any kind?

if they are incapable to be in charge of their OWN FINANCES, that should clue you in. are you saying despite that, some should be in charge of a deadly weapon?

Probably not, but then we are most likely talking about really messed up folks, and folks like that are covered on the yellow paper so really they are a non issue.

 

[playtime]

Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.

Oh, yeah. If we'd only vote Democrat, the Dems would gladly let us keep our guns. Dream on.

Did you keep your guns when Obama was president? Is Trump not threatening your guns? It's OK because so far he has only banned bump stops?

Know what that reminds me of. I walk out to my pasture to find a wolf munching on my cows. So do I shoot the wolves? Na, I shoot the neighbors cat instead. The very fact that the Vagas shooter used a bump stock most likely saved lives. They were nothing but a gimmick. All Teump did with that ban was raise the price of a bump stock from $39.99 to $500.00.

^The very fact that the Vagas shooter used a bump stock most likely saved lives.

"Many firearms experts determined the Las Vegas shooter’s use of a bump stock actually prevented more casualties and (injuries) due to its inconsistency, inaccuracy, and lack of control."
— Michael Williams on Tuesday, October 17th, 2017 in press release

Did bump stocks prevent more casualties in Las Vegas?

 

[Crixus]

So this is what Trump said. Mike Pence says take ANYTHING that is dangerous. I gotta ask how this squares with Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.



So I ask you die hard trumpkins, y'all good with this?

The alternative is complete ban and confiscation, so what do you expect?

.

So to be clear, you are okay with what's coming out of trumps mouth on that video? I could be wrong, if so please post it he video if you can, but while Obama was a shit stain, to my recollection he and Jose Biden never sat across a table from each other on the news and preposed that the government be able to enter a citizens home and confiscate all the dangerous stuff. I am not seeing Trump as "better then the alternative" here. From my POV they are the same.

 

[Crixus]

Trumps claim to love the 2nd amendment and his promise to protect it, yet here he is trying to remove it, as well as the 4th amendment.

Oh, yeah. If we'd only vote Democrat, the Dems would gladly let us keep our guns. Dream on.

Did you keep your guns when Obama was president? Is Trump not threatening your guns? It's OK because so far he has only banned bump stops?

Know what that reminds me of. I walk out to my pasture to find a wolf munching on my cows. So do I shoot the wolves? Na, I shoot the neighbors cat instead. The very fact that the Vagas shooter used a bump stock most likely saved lives. They were nothing but a gimmick. All Teump did with that ban was raise the price of a bump stock from $39.99 to $500.00.

^The very fact that the Vagas shooter used a bump stock most likely saved lives.

"Many firearms experts determined the Las Vegas shooter’s use of a bump stock actually prevented more casualties and (injuries) due to its inconsistency, inaccuracy, and lack of control."
— Michael Williams on Tuesday, October 17th, 2017 in press release

Did bump stocks prevent more casualties in Las Vegas?

You ever try one? Jam o matic. But that brings up another point. Trump banned them, basically did for them what Obama did for the AR-15, so why more shootings? And I don't give a crap what politifact says. They also said Hillary never lied about anything. Try harder trumpkin, you are not doing so good.

 

[playtime]

one of the first things trump did when he got the keys to the white house:

Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Christopher Wilson
Senior Writer
Yahoo NewsAugust 5, 2019

In the wake of this weekend’s mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, President Trump was quick to point to mental illness as a cause, echoing a Republican talking point that emerged in interviews and social media posts on Sunday.

“Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun,” said Trump in a speech Monday morning from the White House. He said the country “must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms, and that, if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process.”

But in his first full month in office, Trump signed a bill rolling back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it more difficult for people with mental illnesses to purchase firearms. The rule would have used Social Security records to add about 75,000 names to the database used in background checks of gun buyers (from licensed firearms dealers). People receiving supplemental-income support for mental disability and those found unfit to handle their own financial affairs would have been precluded from purchasing firearms. While the rule went on the books just before Trump took office in January 2017, compliance was not mandatory until December 2017.
[...]
Trump blames 'mental illness' for shootings, but rolled back Obama regulation on gun sales

Of those 75,000, have any done anything to justify their names being added to a data base of any kind?

if they are incapable to be in charge of their OWN FINANCES, that should clue you in. are you saying despite that, some should be in charge of a deadly weapon?

Probably not, but then we are most likely talking about really messed up folks, and folks like that are covered on the yellow paper so really they are a non issue.

only 75, 000 (outa how many gunowners natinwide) were affected. but donny gav them the go ahead.