Tahrir Square Rape celebration

[Sky Dancer]

Aren't you the one claiming that Sharia law (the most intolerable political system) is inseperable from the "spiritual" islam?

Sharia Law can only be imposed in an Islamic theocracy. We would never put up with that in the US.

Even on my most paranoid days, I still think separation of church and state will always be the law of our land.

Sorry to disagree so soon. It is not the law of the land. In California San Fran has denounced RCC over homosexual adoption [the homosexuals want to force RCC orphanages (caring for children) to give children to homosexuals against the RCC teachings (directly against the faith)]. This is a direct attack against freedom of religion (there are other orphanages). When Oklahoma tried to pass a law to keep muslim law out of our courts, it was struck down. If we are not vigilant, our country will not have the freedoms preserved. That is part of our job as citizens, to protect liberty for the future generations.

I wasn't aware of the courts deciding to force RCC orphanages to offer children homes in gay and lesbian households. Do you have a link for that? The story is of interest to me for a couple of reasons. One. I'm a childless lesbian who would have made a great parent. Two. I was raised a Catholic. Three. I lived for several years of my childhood in RCC foster homes. Four. I am opposed to anything that smacks of theocracy.

I completely agree with you that our job as citizens is to protect liberty for future generations.

 

[logical4u]

Sharia Law can only be imposed in an Islamic theocracy. We would never put up with that in the US.

Even on my most paranoid days, I still think separation of church and state will always be the law of our land.

Sorry to disagree so soon. It is not the law of the land. In California San Fran has denounced RCC over homosexual adoption [the homosexuals want to force RCC orphanages (caring for children) to give children to homosexuals against the RCC teachings (directly against the faith)]. This is a direct attack against freedom of religion (there are other orphanages). When Oklahoma tried to pass a law to keep muslim law out of our courts, it was struck down. If we are not vigilant, our country will not have the freedoms preserved. That is part of our job as citizens, to protect liberty for the future generations.

I wasn't aware of the courts deciding to force RCC orphanages to offer children homes in gay and lesbian households. Do you have a link for that? The story is of interest to me for a couple of reasons. One. I'm a childless lesbian that would have made a great parent. Two. I was raised a Catholic. Three. I lived for several years of my childhood in RCC foster homes. Four. I am opposed to anything that smacks of theocracy.

I completely agree with you that our job as citizens is to protect liberty for future generations.

It was not a court, it was .... 2006, an anti-Catholic resolution was adopted in the City and County of San Francisco

San Francisco takes Catholic Church to Supreme Court - National practical spirituality | Examiner.com slanted against RCC

California Catholic Daily - slanted toward RCC

 

[MikeK]

Your statement sounds as if you blame Lara Logan for 'putting herself in a positon to be raped, molested and possibly killed'. She's a news reporter, and a fearless one. Should only male reporters take dangerous assignments? I'm sure Ms Logan was cautioned about the dangers of covering this event. That doesn't mean it was predictable and she deliberately set out to be gang raped.

Anderson Cooper may have been snatched and pummeled but he wasn't gang raped. That Ms Logan was is a reflection of the hatred for women this culture has.

The fault of this crime lies on the feet of the criminal, the rapist, NOT the rape survivor.

You can complain all you wish to about it but the fact remains, fools rush in where wise men (and women) fear to go.

This notion you have that rape is motivated by hatred is fanciful feminist nonsense. While it might be true that a percentage of rapists harbor pathological feelings toward women the vast majority of them just want to get laid and have no problem with taking it by force. In fact they like it better that way. They have the same mentality as those who take property by force and it's no more complicated than that.

It's not a "fault." It's a criminal propensity. It has to do with sex, not hate. Any woman who consciously places herself in a position where she is particularly vulnerable is either a fool, or is simply stupid, or she harbors a subliminal wish to be raped.

And that is common sense, not sexism or male chauvinism.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Your statement sounds as if you blame Lara Logan for 'putting herself in a positon to be raped, molested and possibly killed'. She's a news reporter, and a fearless one. Should only male reporters take dangerous assignments? I'm sure Ms Logan was cautioned about the dangers of covering this event. That doesn't mean it was predictable and she deliberately set out to be gang raped.

Anderson Cooper may have been snatched and pummeled but he wasn't gang raped. That Ms Logan was is a reflection of the hatred for women this culture has.

The fault of this crime lies on the feet of the criminal, the rapist, NOT the rape survivor.

You can complain all you wish to about it but the fact remains, fools rush in where wise men (and women) fear to go.

This notion you have that rape is motivated by hatred is fanciful feminist nonsense. While it might be true that a percentage of rapists harbor pathological feelings toward women the vast majority of them just want to get laid and have no problem with taking it by force. In fact they like it better that way. They have the same mentality as those who take property by force and it's no more complicated than that.

It's not a "fault." It's a criminal propensity. It has to do with sex, not hate. Any woman who consciously places herself in a position where she is particularly vulnerable is either a fool, or is simply stupid, or she harbors a subliminal wish to be raped.

And that is common sense, not sexism or male chauvinism.

1. Rape is NOT about sex, it's about rage and domination. It's an act of violence, not of consensual love making or sexual pleasure. It's an act of humiliation for the victim.

2. No woman harbors a subliminal wish to be beaten and gang raped.

3. Rapists are not guys who just want to get laid. If so, then that makes EVERY man who wants to have sex a rapist. This was a violent assault. Wake up.

4. Lara Logan is not a fool. She is a courageous journalist. She is braver than you are.

5. I hope you don't have daughters, a wife or a mother that is assaulted. I pray your loved ones are NEVER sexually assaulted so that you will not be in a position to hurt them further by blaming them if the unthinkable ever happened.

6. Your view of victims who are raped is indeed sexist and chauvinistic. You think men should have the privelege of raping a woman whenever they choose because they want sex, and any woman who gets in their way is to blame. That's disgusting. What century were you born in?

I've got a suggestion for you. Go work in a Rape Crisis Center for a year.

 

[spectrumc01]

My question is... If a child is the result of the rape...does she get an abortion? and what do the christians, and anti abortion people think? just wondering?

 

[Jeremy]

My question is... If a child is the result of the rape...does she get an abortion? and what do the christians, and anti abortion people think? just wondering?

They need to do way instai.....





...ah fuck it.

 

[MikeK]

1. Rape is NOT about sex, it's about rage and domination. It's an act of violence, not of love making or sexual pleasure. It's an act of humiliation for the victim.

While that might be true in a small number of cases it is not true in the majority of rapes. You need to talk with some experienced urban cops rather than forming an impression based on tv dramatizations.

2. No woman harbors a subliminal wish to be beaten and gang raped.

I didn't suggest that they did. What I said is some women harbor rape fantasies. Which, in extreme cases, develop into a subliminal wish to be raped. But a wish to be beaten and gang raped would be a sado/masochistic fantasy.

Don't take my word for it. Ask a forensic Ph.D., or research it via Google. It is a recognized phenomenon.

3. Rapists are not guys who just want to get laid. If so, then by definition that makes EVERY man who wants to have sex a rapist. This was a violent assault. Wake up.

Every man wants to drive a nice car. Some men satisfy that wish by stealing cars. The same mentality applies to the average rapist: I want it. I see an opportunity. I take it. In most cases it's nothing more complicated than that.

Again, talk to an experienced cop if you doubt it.

4. Lara Logan is not a fool. She is a courageous journalist. She is braver than you are.

What she is or is not depends entirely on how aware she was of what was likely to happen to her.

I would not park my shiny Cadillac overnight on Simpson Street and Southern Boulevard in the South Bronx -- because I'm not a fool. Nor am I stupid. Nor do I harbor a masochistic urge to suffer the loss of my car. And what we're talking about here is the same proposition. Nothing more complicated or Freudian than that.

5. I hope you don't have daughters, a wife or a mother that is assaulted. I pray your loved ones are NEVER sexually assaulted so that you will not be in a position to hurt them further by blaming them if the unthinkable ever happened.

My three girls were carefully and repeatedly warned by me and by their mother that there are some really bad men in the world and women need to avoid placing themselves in vulnerable positions.

6. Your view of victims who are raped is indeed sexist and chauvinistic.

And your view of rape is right out of some radical feminist diatribe and is rooted in resentment of the primitive superiority of the male. You seem to have difficulty dealing with the natural fact that men are physically capable of imposing their will on women in the most primitive level of interaction.

You think men should have the privelege of raping a woman whenever they choose because they want sex, and any woman who gets in their way is to blame. That's disgusting. What century were you born in?

I've said absolutely nothing to support that hysterical observation. I've stated that I deplore the crime of rape but that fact does not distort my perception of reality, which you seem to have a problem with.

I've got a suggestion for you. Go work in a Rape Crisis Center for a year.

What would I learn there? And from whom? Do you believe that every woman who is raped ends up in a crisis center? Or would you believe that only a small percentage of them do -- probably those who were victims of the psychopathic types.

The bottom line here is most men are not inclined to commit rape but some men are. There is nothing I can do about that. So sensible women should understand that and avoid placing themselves in vulnerable situations. That is and has been my only position, which I regard as common sense. But you have interpreted it as pro-rape, sexist male chauvinism.

I wonder how many here agree with you.

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Big man! - 15 minutes of fame at Lara Logan's expense...

How Could Nir Rosen Not Have Known his Lara Logan Tweets Crossed the Line?
I'd never heard of Nir Rosen until Tuesday, when he became the author of the most reviled Tweets on the planet.

Shortly after CBS sent out a news release explaining that correspondent Lara Logan "suffered a brutal and sustained sexual assault and beating" from a crowd of Egyptians following the resignation of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, Rosen started posting Tweets. (I'm cleaning up the language of his quotes here, by the way, but making no other changes.)

"Lara Logan had to outdo Anderson. Where was her buddy McCrystal."

"Yes yes its wrong what happened to her. Of course. I don't support that. But, it would have been funny if it happened to Anderson too."

"Look, she was probably groped like thousands of other women, which is still wrong, but if it was worse than I'm sorry."

His posts were quickly retweeted, triggering a tsunami of revulsion. Rosen took another post or two to realize what he'd stepped in:

"ah f--- it, I apologize for being insensitive, it's always wrong, that's obvious, but I'm rolling my eyes at all the attention she will get."

MORE

 

[Sky Dancer]

1. Rape is NOT about sex, it's about rage and domination. It's an act of violence, not of love making or sexual pleasure. It's an act of humiliation for the victim.

While that might be true in a small number of cases it is not true in the majority of rapes. You need to talk with some experienced urban cops rather than forming an impression based on tv dramatizations.

2. No woman harbors a subliminal wish to be beaten and gang raped.

I didn't suggest that they did. What I said is some women harbor rape fantasies. Which, in extreme cases, develop into a subliminal wish to be raped. But a wish to be beaten and gang raped would be a sado/masochistic fantasy.

Don't take my word for it. Ask a forensic Ph.D., or research it via Google. It is a recognized phenomenon.


Every man wants to drive a nice car. Some men satisfy that wish by stealing cars. The same mentality applies to the average rapist: I want it. I see an opportunity. I take it. In most cases it's nothing more complicated than that.

Again, talk to an experienced cop if you doubt it.


What she is or is not depends entirely on how aware she was of what was likely to happen to her.

I would not park my shiny Cadillac overnight on Simpson Street and Southern Boulevard in the South Bronx -- because I'm not a fool. Nor am I stupid. Nor do I harbor a masochistic urge to suffer the loss of my car. And what we're talking about here is the same proposition. Nothing more complicated or Freudian than that.



My three girls were carefully and repeatedly warned by me and by their mother that there are some really bad men in the world and women need to avoid placing themselves in vulnerable positions.



And your view of rape is right out of some radical feminist diatribe and is rooted in resentment of the primitive superiority of the male. You seem to have difficulty dealing with the natural fact that men are physically capable of imposing their will on women in the most primitive level of interaction.

You think men should have the privelege of raping a woman whenever they choose because they want sex, and any woman who gets in their way is to blame. That's disgusting. What century were you born in?

I've said absolutely nothing to support that hysterical observation. I've stated that I deplore the crime of rape but that fact does not distort my perception of reality, which you seem to have a problem with.

I've got a suggestion for you. Go work in a Rape Crisis Center for a year.

What would I learn there? And from whom? Do you believe that every woman who is raped ends up in a crisis center? Or would you believe that only a small percentage of them do -- probably those who were victims of the psychopathic types.

The bottom line here is most men are not inclined to commit rape but some men are. There is nothing I can do about that. So sensible women should understand that and avoid placing themselves in vulnerable situations. That is and has been my only position, which I regard as common sense. But you have interpreted it as pro-rape, sexist male chauvinism.

I wonder how many here agree with you.

Yes. I think you are pro-rape and sexist. Why do I think that? You think that women want to be brutally raped and beaten. They don't. You think women should be blamed for any rapes because they should have avoided placing themselves in vulnerable positions.

I think you ought to go work in a rape center because you don't know shit about rape.

Probably, you don't think married women get raped by their husbands, children get raped by their parents, girls get raped by boyfriends etc etc etc.

There is plenty that you as a man can do to support women. Judging them when they're violated is not support.

You can educate yourself and other men about rape and work with women and men to solve this problem.

You also don't know shit about S/M. power and trust sex play. This is not rape but sex between consenting adults, there is a safe word, both partners are in complete control and the activity can stop any time it becomes too scary.

You are completely clueless about rape. Go to a rape center and talk to some of the counselors there.

 

[MikeK]

Yes. I think you are pro-rape and sexist. Why do I think that? You think that women want to be brutally raped and beaten. They don't. You think women should be blamed for any rapes because they should have avoided placing themselves in vulnerable positions.

Those are things that you read into what I actually said.

I think you ought to go work in a rape center because you don't know shit about rape.

And exactly what would I do at this rape center?

Probably, you don't think married women get raped by their husbands, children get raped by their parents, girls get raped by boyfriends etc etc etc.

I know all that along with the fact that some men actually rape other men and boys. But if you know of a way to prevent the crime of rape please tell me what it is.

There is plenty that you as a man can do to support women.

Such as? And please be specific.

Judging them when they're violated is not support.

I haven't judged anyone. Nor do I assume that when a woman claims she's been raped it's necessarily true. Or are you willing to say that it's always true -- and always exactly the way it's reported without any mitigating factors?

You can educate yourself and other men about rape and work with women and men to solve this problem.

What is there to know that I don't already know? Again, please be specific.

You also don't know shit about S/M. power and trust sex play.

What I know about S&M behaviors is that it occurs in degrees of severity, ranging from pretend cruelty to the application of real pain which, in extreme examples, has actually resulted in death or maiming. So anything that happens within the extreme levels of those activities would not surprise me.

This is not rape but sex between consenting adults, there is a safe word, both partners are in complete control and the activity can stop any time it becomes too scary.

Are you willing to say that these games never get out of hand? Never ever?

You are completely clueless about rape.

Again, what is there to know? And, again, please be specific.

Also, please keep in mind that I am not a woman and therefore I perceive certain things differently from the way women do. As a civilized man and the father of three girls I deplore the crime of rape. But I have no idea what more you expect of me.

I know there is a spectrum of degrees in which rape is designated ranging from statutory rape, which is not rape at all in the accepted sense of the word, to forcible rape under the most sadistically pathological circumstances. I believe that some types of rape call for the death penalty but before making any such judgment I would need to know all the facts.

Go to a rape center and talk to some of the counselors there.

What would they tell me? I expect the dialogue would be pretty much what our exchange here is about.

 

[logical4u]

1. Rape is NOT about sex, it's about rage and domination. It's an act of violence, not of love making or sexual pleasure. It's an act of humiliation for the victim.

While that might be true in a small number of cases it is not true in the majority of rapes. You need to talk with some experienced urban cops rather than forming an impression based on tv dramatizations.


I didn't suggest that they did. What I said is some women harbor rape fantasies. Which, in extreme cases, develop into a subliminal wish to be raped. But a wish to be beaten and gang raped would be a sado/masochistic fantasy.

Don't take my word for it. Ask a forensic Ph.D., or research it via Google. It is a recognized phenomenon.


Every man wants to drive a nice car. Some men satisfy that wish by stealing cars. The same mentality applies to the average rapist: I want it. I see an opportunity. I take it. In most cases it's nothing more complicated than that.

Again, talk to an experienced cop if you doubt it.


What she is or is not depends entirely on how aware she was of what was likely to happen to her.

I would not park my shiny Cadillac overnight on Simpson Street and Southern Boulevard in the South Bronx -- because I'm not a fool. Nor am I stupid. Nor do I harbor a masochistic urge to suffer the loss of my car. And what we're talking about here is the same proposition. Nothing more complicated or Freudian than that.



My three girls were carefully and repeatedly warned by me and by their mother that there are some really bad men in the world and women need to avoid placing themselves in vulnerable positions.



And your view of rape is right out of some radical feminist diatribe and is rooted in resentment of the primitive superiority of the male. You seem to have difficulty dealing with the natural fact that men are physically capable of imposing their will on women in the most primitive level of interaction.


I've said absolutely nothing to support that hysterical observation. I've stated that I deplore the crime of rape but that fact does not distort my perception of reality, which you seem to have a problem with.

I've got a suggestion for you. Go work in a Rape Crisis Center for a year.

What would I learn there? And from whom? Do you believe that every woman who is raped ends up in a crisis center? Or would you believe that only a small percentage of them do -- probably those who were victims of the psychopathic types.

The bottom line here is most men are not inclined to commit rape but some men are. There is nothing I can do about that. So sensible women should understand that and avoid placing themselves in vulnerable situations. That is and has been my only position, which I regard as common sense. But you have interpreted it as pro-rape, sexist male chauvinism.

I wonder how many here agree with you.

Yes. I think you are pro-rape and sexist. Why do I think that? You think that women want to be brutally raped and beaten. They don't. You think women should be blamed for any rapes because they should have avoided placing themselves in vulnerable positions.

I think you ought to go work in a rape center because you don't know shit about rape.

Probably, you don't think married women get raped by their husbands, children get raped by their parents, girls get raped by boyfriends etc etc etc.

There is plenty that you as a man can do to support women. Judging them when they're violated is not support.

You can educate yourself and other men about rape and work with women and men to solve this problem.

You also don't know shit about S/M. power and trust sex play. This is not rape but sex between consenting adults, there is a safe word, both partners are in complete control and the activity can stop any time it becomes too scary.

You are completely clueless about rape. Go to a rape center and talk to some of the counselors there.

Sky Dancer, don't forget to mention the men (especially in prisoner status) that are raped. Did they want to be raped too? How about the little boys that are raped? Was playing alone an invitation for every pervert to rape them? MikeK is it acceptable for men and boys to be raped (just part of life that should have no bearing on how we judge the safety of our communities), or is that going to far? If women/girls are not safe on the streets, isn't that the very definition of anarchy?

 

[MikeK]

[...]

MikeK is it acceptable for men and boys to be raped (just part of life that should have no bearing on how we judge the safety of our communities), or is that going to far?

What specifically did I say that remotely suggests rape is acceptable?

If women/girls are not safe on the streets, isn't that the very definition of anarchy?

I have three daughters the oldest of whom is 47. All three were raised in New York City. None were raped. Nor was my late wife raped. Nor were any of the women we know raped (that I am aware of). So I hope you'll forgive me if I don't share your rather extreme sense of apprehension.

Rape is one among many crimes which are perpetrated in our society on a daily basis. People are murdered, robbed and brutally assaulted as well. Homes and businesses are burglarized and cars are stolen. I don't know how to eliminate such things so the only suggestion I can offer is we need to be aware of the dangers and take whatever precautions are available to us. The best thing that any woman can do to prevent being raped is to avoid placing herself in a position which would accommodate that potential. And that is the only point I've tried to make in this thread but I've been denounced as an insensitive male chauvinist.

Do you have a better suggestion?

 

[High_Gravity]

Most women who are raped don't say anything though right? all the girls I talked to who were raped never said a word.

 

[logical4u]

[...]

MikeK is it acceptable for men and boys to be raped (just part of life that should have no bearing on how we judge the safety of our communities), or is that going to far?

What specifically did I say that remotely suggests rape is acceptable?

If women/girls are not safe on the streets, isn't that the very definition of anarchy?

I have three daughters the oldest of whom is 47. All three were raised in New York City. None were raped. Nor was my late wife raped. Nor were any of the women we know raped (that I am aware of). So I hope you'll forgive me if I don't share your rather extreme sense of apprehension.

Rape is one among many crimes which are perpetrated in our society on a daily basis. People are murdered, robbed and brutally assaulted as well. Homes and businesses are burglarized and cars are stolen. I don't know how to eliminate such things so the only suggestion I can offer is we need to be aware of the dangers and take whatever precautions are available to us. The best thing that any woman can do to prevent being raped is to avoid placing herself in a position which would accommodate that potential. And that is the only point I've tried to make in this thread but I've been denounced as an insensitive male chauvinist.

Do you have a better suggestion?

I would guess you are thinking specifically of this country. I am not. My point was that if women are not safe to walk down the street in broad daylight in any community, world wide, then that country is not for freedom or liberty.

As far as males being raped, you seemed non-chalant about female rape, I was asking if you felt the same way when males were raped.

Knowing that rape happens, and accepting it are two different things.

 

[MikeK]

I would guess you are thinking specifically of this country.

I am.

I am not. My point was that if women are not safe to walk down the street in broad daylight in any community, world wide, then that country is not for freedom or liberty.

I agree. But what do you suggest we do in the way of solving the problem?

As far as males being raped, you seemed non-chalant about female rape, I was asking if you felt the same way when males were raped.

If I seem nonchalant it's because, as I've explained, no one close to me -- in fact no one I know, has been raped so I have no emotional connection to the act. But if someone raped one of my girls I know I would be enraged enough to kill him

As it is, objectively, I deplore the act of forcible rape. I believe that a man who would do something like that doesn't deserve to live in a civilized society. But I don't relate to the act in the same way as women do, nor should you expect me to.

As far as my feelings about male/male rape are concerned, I've heard about this but I've never known or heard of a specific instance. I believe that it happens mainly in prisons, which is a manifestation of the perverse and incompetently managed nature of our prison system. But I must say I do not nor have I ever felt the slightest bit concerned about it happening to me.

If I were small, frail, effeminate and pretty, then maybe. But as it is I have absolutely nothing to worry about along those lines. So I don't give it much thought.

 

[Aviatrix]

Today Lara Logan was the Keynote speaker at the Intercultural Management Institute's (IMI) annual conference. She spoke twice about working in multicultural environments. There was no mention of her experience in Tahrir Square on Feb 11th.

I wonder why she is back to public speaking, but not clearing the air about what really happened to her

 

[Intense]

Today Lara Logan was the Keynote speaker at the Intercultural Management Institute's (IMI) annual conference. She spoke twice about working in multicultural environments. There was no mention of her experience in Tahrir Square on Feb 11th.

I wonder why she is back to public speaking, but not clearing the air about what really happened to her

I suspect that she was molested and groped, not raped.

 

[Ropey]

Women are not being well treated in Egypt. They never have been and right now it is even worse as men anger at women for attempting to take part in the politics.

It didn't take to long to morph into the old, did it?

 

[High_Gravity]

Women are not being well treated in Egypt. They never have been and right now it is even worse as men anger at women for attempting to take part in the politics.

It didn't take to long to morph into the old, did it?

Women get treated like dogs in Egypt, and it looks like things may get worse for them when the Islamists take over that country.