Sweet Caroline ..........

[rayboyusmc]

since when do qualifications matter?

True: Bush, Palin, Brownie, Chertoff, and most of the Bush appointees of fox in the henhouse policy.

 

[Care4all]

oh, there is no question on the people nominated for key positions in the Bush administration being below average, and below knowledgeable for several of the positions he filled...

But this is at the Governor's discretion and I was just saying, I don't see anything special, with the steps that Caroline Kennedy has made so far in the bidding, nor the few appearances she has made regarding such, in the press...to make me feel that she would be CAPABLE of handling the very noteworthy position of Senator of New York.

I mean, it very well can be, that she is a "Diamond in the rough" type of person, and I just don't see it....but i am usually pretty good at this thing and as with Palin, I think she is not shining, in any manner....at least not yet.

Care

 

[editec]

The hypocrisy and nonstop double standards held by Democrats that includes what counts as "qualified" actually depends on whether the person has a "D" or an "R" after their name, doesn't it?

No, it does not.

You are missing the fact that the so called liberals on this board are ALSO bitching about Caroline elevation.

Nepotism is rampant in BOTH parties.

 

[jillian]

You are missing the fact that the so called liberals on this board are ALSO bitching about Caroline elevation.

Nepotism is rampant in BOTH parties.

I haven't decided yet how I feel about Caroline Kennedy being Senator. On one hand, I think it was to be anticipated. On the other hand, she will get things done because a) she can raise money like no one's business; and b) she'll be a reliable vote for Obama. Plus, he owes her for going out on a limb for him after Hillary's campaign started wading in muddy waters and that's good for NY.

What I DO find interesting is no one whines about this stuff when it's a man. No one complained when a Rockefeller went into Congress.... or when baby Bush became governor of Texas (soemthing he was wholly ill-equipped for) and later became pres. They only whined about family name when it was Hillary carrying the clinton name... and now Caroline.

Kennedy's annoy the right because they're reliable liberal votes and carry a lot of sway.

So, mostly, I feel like I don't know why this is such a huge deal. The choice here in NY is going to be a Cuomo or a Kennedy. I'd rather it be Caroline Kennedy than Andrew Cuomo.

 

[Skull Pilot]

True: Bush, Palin, Brownie, Chertoff, and most of the Bush appointees of fox in the henhouse policy.

be "fair" mr libby and include some dimocrats on your list start with our fearless leader to be.

 

[editec]

I haven't decided yet how I feel about Caroline Kennedy being Senator. On one hand, I think it was to be anticipated. On the other hand, she will get things done because a) she can raise money like no one's business; and b) she'll be a reliable vote for Obama. Plus, he owes her for going out on a limb for him after Hillary's campaign started wading in muddy waters and that's good for NY.

Yup. Her most qualifying aspect is her political suck, no doubt about that. Incidently, I don't doubt she can be a good Senator.

I don't doubt I could be a good Senator, either, but I rather doubt I'll be tapped for the office.

What I DO find interesting is no one whines about this stuff when it's a man. No one complained when a Rockefeller went into Congress.... or when baby Bush became governor of Texas (soemthing he was wholly ill-equipped for) and later became pres. They only whined about family name when it was Hillary carrying the clinton name... and now Caroline.

No one? Well I think that's a tad overstated, Jill. Plenty of us have been calling out the current scion and suggesting that he was never really qualified for that post, too.

Kennedy's annoy the right because they're reliable liberal votes and carry a lot of sway.

And they carrry a lot of sway because this society has accepted that scions will carry on generation after generation because Congress has some sort of sotto voce legacy system going on.

So, mostly, I feel like I don't know why this is such a huge deal. The choice here in NY is going to be a Cuomo or a Kennedy. I'd rather it be Caroline Kennedy than Andrew Cuomo.

It's a big deal because nepotism flies in the face of a system called meritocracy, that's why.

 

[jillian]

Yup. Her most qualifying aspect is her political suck, no doubt about that. Incidently, I don't doubt she can be a good Senator.

I don't doubt I could be a good Senator, either, but I rather doubt I'll be tapped for the office.

Yeah, me either.

No one? Well I think that's a tad overstated, Jill. Plenty of us have been calling out the current scion and suggesting that he was never really qualified for that post, too.

But the people who are whining about Caroline Kennedy sure weren't whining about Dubya. Me? I've accepted that contacts are a huge part of life. Right?Wrong? Indifferent? ... just fact.

And they carrry a lot of sway because this society has accepted that scions will carry on generation after generation because Congress has some sort of sotto voce legacy system going on.

It is nothing new for politics to be the "family business" for some families. Goes back to John Adams/John Quincy Adams. Roosevelt? Kennedy? Bush? Rockefeller?

Now we're worrying about Caroline? Hell, I had hoped her brother would be president.

It's a big deal because nepotism flies in the face of a system called meritocracy, that's why.

There are the odd people, like Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, who break through the wall.... but it's not like politicos are anything but a gentry... at least at a certain level.

 

[Shadow]

Caroline Kennedy would make a better Senator than Al Franken,and is more qualified....

That's not saying much of course, but come on most libbies don't care about qualifications...just popularity and that big "D" after the persons name. If she had been on the ballot they would have voted her in anyway because she is a Kennedy. Who cares at this point, IMO this election cycle has been a big joke...so why not Caroline.

 

[editec]

Yeah, me either.

America's loss in both cases.

But the people who are whining about Caroline Kennedy sure weren't whining about Dubya. Me? I've accepted that contacts are a huge part of life. Right?Wrong? Indifferent? ... just fact.

True, but that doesn't make their complaint any less valid. Neither does the fact that you are sanguine (or at least resigned) to the fact.

It is nothing new for politics to be the "family business" for some families. Goes back to John Adams/John Quincy Adams. Roosevelt? Kennedy? Bush? Rockefeller?

Goes back to Adam and Eve, would be my guess.

Now we're worrying about Caroline? Hell, I had hoped her brother would be president.

I'm not worried about it. I'm just tired of it.

There are the odd people, like Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, who break through the wall.... but it's not like politicos are anything but a gentry... at least at a certain level.

Yes.

Sadly for every Bill Clinton who breaks through the wall there's a hundred George Bush IIs or Caroline Kennedys shoring it up.

Nothing succeeds like success, ESPECIALLY daddy's success.

 

[jillian]

America's loss in both cases.

True, but that doesn't make their complaint any less valid. Neither does the fact that you are sanguine (or at least resigned) to the fact.

I am probably resigned to it because I don't believe in howling at the moon. I am also aware that when people have power, they take their own along. I only ask that the people they take along are capable....and that is where Bush failed. He didn't care about ability.

Goes back to Adam and Eve, would be my guess.

True,

I'm not worried about it. I'm just tired of it.

In my life/career, I have both benefitted from the people who knew me or mine (and who knew I was qualified and capable) and disadvantaged by the contacts of others. My feeling is that I can no more complain about the disadvantages than I do about the advantages.

Sadly for every Bill Clinton who breaks through the wall there's a hundred George Bush IIs or Caroline Kennedys shoring it up.

Nothing succeeds like success, ESPECIALLY daddy's success.

My dad is very successful in a particular industry. His successes have absolutely no benefit to me in my profession. But I know that if he could have, he would have. I would do the same for my son assuming he were capable...

So I guess that's why I'm resigned to it.

Just being honest.

 

[DiveCon]

what will happen, will happen
nothing we say here will change who the Governor of NY appoints
and it is within his legal rights to appoint her
even though i would wish he would find someone with at least some experience in the job

thats not saying she would be a bad pick for NY but it would imply that she got it only by name

 

[jillian]

But who are the alternatives, anyway?

Andy Cuomo? Mark Green??? Yuck.

 

[DiveCon]

But who are the alternatives, anyway?

Andy Cuomo? Mark Green??? Yuck.

no idea
i dont live in NY

you mean there isnt a decent US rep that could fill the position?
has to be at least one out of all the ones the have in NY

 

[jillian]

no idea
i dont live in NY

you mean there isnt a decent US rep that could fill the position?
has to be at least one out of all the ones the have in NY

More that Paterson would have to think about who's ox he'd gore if he picked someone out of the House of Representatives. The only one I, personally, would want to see go would be Anthony Weiner. But I don't see how Paterson could put him in without pissing off a lot of people.

Hence Caroline makes the most sense for him in terms of political cover, too.

 

[editec]

I am probably resigned to it because I don't believe in howling at the moon. I am also aware that when people have power, they take their own along. I only ask that the people they take along are capable....and that is where Bush failed. He didn't care about ability.

A not entirely unreasonable approach to this issue.

With the exception of characterizing we who are complaining about it as "howling at the moon" of course, Jillian.

That rather condensending and purposefully insulting comment I might have done without.

In my life/career, I have both benefitted from the people who knew me or mine (and who knew I was qualified and capable) and disadvantaged by the contacts of others. My feeling is that I can no more complain about the disadvantages than I do about the advantages.

How very liberal of you.

But you won't object too much, I hope, if those of us who have never had those advantages gripe a bit about the outcomes that too often come of having to work with morons whose sole claim to leadership is that they started out on third base and hit a home run, will you?

We'll try to howl at the moon such that it doesn't bother the scions in the manor house to awfully much.

My dad is very successful in a particular industry. His successes have absolutely no benefit to me in my profession. But I know that if he could have, he would have. I would do the same for my son assuming he were capable...

But your being a member of the class of people with that family success underpinning your entire life most certainly did benefit you to help you arrive at that place where your father's success made absolutely no difference, I'd wager.

There is no greater skill when going after a job or profession thatn the knowledge that you can fail to get that job, or that you can take that risk and still live indoors if it doesn't work out.

Of course, you'll probably just have to take my word for that.

Neither your nor I can ever prove that, but we can intuit that is is true based on the ironclad statistical correlation between what class people start out in, and what class they typically end up in, here in America.

In fact what class you start out in correlates to where you end up far more than education does.

Basically, and contrary to the popular myth, America has the least social mobility of any industrial nation in the Western world.

That startling statistic leads me to think that nepotism (and its bigger brother classism) are the American love affairs which dare not speak their names.

So I guess that's why I'm resigned to it.

We are both resigned to it.

Nepotism is not only human nature, but social nature, too, especially in collapsing empires.

Just being honest.

I appreciate that. Me, too.

 

[jillian]

A not entirely unreasonable approach to this issue.

With the exception of characterizing we who are complaining about it as "howling at the moon" of course, Jillian.

That rather condensending and purposefully insulting comment I might have done without.

Wasn't meant to be insulting or condescending. Apologies if it appeared that way.

How very liberal of you.

Not liberal... honest.

But you won't object too much, I hope, if those of us who have never had those advantages gripe a bit about the outcomes that too often come of having to work with morons whose sole claim to leadership is that they started out on third base and hit a home run, will you?

OK.

We'll try to howl at the moon such that it doesn't bother the scions in the manor house to awfully much.

Again, my comment wasn't intended to imply that. more a sense on my part that such complaints would be exhausting with no benefit.

But your being a member of the class of people with that family success underpinning your entire life most certainly did benefit you to help you arrive at that place where your father's success made absolutely no difference, I'd wager.

No. My dad grew up in Brownsvile.... he busted his butt.. That made HIM successful. And while he helped me get through school, moneywise, he had no ability to help me whatsoever in my career.... not one iota.

There is no greater skill when going after a job or profession thatn the knowledge that you can fail to get that job, or that you can take that risk and still live indoors if it doesn't work out.

If you knew my family, you'd know that my dad could still be living in Brownsville and that would still be the case. But trust me, the fear of not being able to support one's family is very motivating even if you know there's a safety net.

Of course, you'll probably just have to take my word for that.

Now which of us is patronizing? hmmmmmm?

Neither your nor I can ever prove that, but we can intuit that is is true based on the ironclad statistical correlation between what class people start out in, and what class they typically end up in, here in America.

Ummmm.... my dad started as a milk truck driver.

In fact what class you start out in correlates to where you end up far more than education does.

You're presuming far too much based on what I said.

Basically, and contrary to the popular myth, America has the least social mobility of any industrial nation in the Western world.

That doesn't surprise me.

That startling statistic leads me to think that nepotism (and its bigger brother classism) are the American love affairs which dare not speak their names.

Again, I think you might want to reassess where I come from. My point, and my only point, was that I have been both helped by people who wanted to help me (for whatever reason) and hurt by people who had more juice. I never meant it to imply that I had any particular power... or came from a particular family situation that benefitted me in that regard. In fact, I think my point was that my dad couldn't do a single thing for me.

Nepotism is not only human nature, but social nature, too, especially in collapsing empires.

I think it is human nature to take our friends along... again, if they are capable. Wouldn't you take your kids if you could? My only point was that I would.

I appreciate that. Me, too.

I see that. But again, you presumed a bit too much and inferred too much from what I said.

 

[elvis]

But who are the alternatives, anyway?

Andy Cuomo? Mark Green??? Yuck.

Rudy Giuliani. (dodging Jillian's right hook) lol

 

[DiveCon]

Rudy Giuliani. (dodging Jillian's right hook) lol

not gonna happen

 

[elvis]

I haven't decided yet how I feel about Caroline Kennedy being Senator. On one hand, I think it was to be anticipated. On the other hand, she will get things done because a) she can raise money like no one's business; and b) she'll be a reliable vote for Obama. Plus, he owes her for going out on a limb for him after Hillary's campaign started wading in muddy waters and that's good for NY.

What I DO find interesting is no one whines about this stuff when it's a man. No one complained when a Rockefeller went into Congress.... or when baby Bush became governor of Texas (soemthing he was wholly ill-equipped for) and later became pres. They only whined about family name when it was Hillary carrying the clinton name... and now Caroline.

Kennedy's annoy the right because they're reliable liberal votes and carry a lot of sway.

So, mostly, I feel like I don't know why this is such a huge deal. The choice here in NY is going to be a Cuomo or a Kennedy. I'd rather it be Caroline Kennedy than Andrew Cuomo.

Wasn't Rocky more experienced than Caroline? I see what you're saying in regards to name recognition, but what were Rocky's credentials before being governor?
side note: Didn't Joe Kennedy want Bobby to run for governor of New York?
(before Jack was shot) in say, 66?

 

[jillian]

Rudy Giuliani. (dodging Jillian's right hook) lol

lol....

Somehow I don't see a democratic governor appointing a repub to a NY Senate seat.

FWIW, I voted for Rudy twice for mayor. I'd NEVER vote for him for a federal position.