Swedish Pentecostal Pastor On Trial For Anti-Gay Hate Speech

[Powerman]

No. I'm not making your argument for you. You said things have been proven to be untrue in the Bible. So, what are they? I don't need every one. Just give like, 3 examples. This is your claim that things were proven to be untrue, not my claim that things are proven true.

Fair enough. I'll provide you with a couple examples.

For one we know the flood story to be a complete myth for several reasons.

1. It's scientifically impossible that it could have happened
2. There is geological evidence to suggest that it was merely a local river that may have killed no more than 1000 people
3. It is a complete plagerism of the Epic of Gilgamesh which is an old Babylonian tale and one that people believe is the first story ever written


The Bible says that the earth sits on top of pillars. We know that is not the case.

In the story of the Exodus the Pharoah's magicians are able to reproduce several of the plagues and magic tricks that Yahweh performs. Unless you believe in magic then this contradicts the idea that there is only one God.

In the bible there is mention of giant men who were over 11 feet tall and 7 feet wide. Nonsense...

They also claim that rain comes from God opening up the skies...if this book had any merit then they would know that there is a scientific explanation for such things.

I've given you an example of things that are obviously not true or just absurd in the bible.

Can you now tell me anything in the bible that IS true?

 

[Powerman]

Well you seem to be unable to understand how there can be areas of self determination even when global macro events may be known. can you explain your trouble? It seems to be an intellectual problem.

You do realize that you pretty much just said nothing right?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Fair enough. I'll provide you with a couple examples.

For one we know the flood story to be a complete myth for several reasons.

1. It's scientifically impossible that it could have happened
2. There is geological evidence to suggest that it was merely a local river that may have killed no more than 1000 people
3. It is a complete plagerism of the Epic of Gilgamesh which is an old Babylonian tale and one that people believe is the first story ever written


The Bible says that the earth sits on top of pillars. We know that is not the case.

In the story of the Exodus the Pharoah's magicians are able to reproduce several of the plagues and magic tricks that Yahweh performs. Unless you believe in magic then this contradicts the idea that there is only one God.

In the bible there is mention of giant men who were over 11 feet tall and 7 feet wide. Nonsense...

They also claim that rain comes from God opening up the skies...if this book had any merit then they would know that there is a scientific explanation for such things.

I've given you an example of things that are obviously not true or just absurd in the bible.

Can you now tell me anything in the bible that IS true?

Your proof that things are untrue rests, for the most part, on the fact that you think it's absurd. 11 feet tall men? That couldn't have happened! It's a lie! Giant flood? Scientifically impossible! (whatever that means)

Most of what you've posted suggests that the bible exaggerates as opposed to lies. It suggests that, when written, the authors didn't have the understanding of the world around them as much as we do now. Not that they were lying.

I can't provide you with any truth or mistruth from the Bible as I don't consider myself a Christian, and when I was a Christian, I certainly wasn't an expert on the Bible. For me to do so, or attempt to do so, would make me look rather silly.

 

[GotZoom]

I don't see how people can compare pedophilia which is clearly not consensual to consensual homosexuality. You'd really have to be a fucking idiot to see the 2 in the same light. And I will gladly hurl any warranted insult at any fucking idiot on this board that believes that.

A bit over-reactive and sensitive aren't we?

Is there something you care to share with us that might explain to us your over-the-top reaction?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You do realize that you pretty much just said nothing right?

Here's an example, you're gonna die. That is predermined. How you live your life till then is not predetermined. So some things ARE predermined, and some things are NOT predermined. Maybe you don't believe the concept of prophetic knowledge is incompatible with the concept of free will, but it's just not for the same reason. Some things are known some, some things arent. You're free to do what you want, however, the day of judgement is coming. You get to choose good or evil. What say you?

 

[theim]

Well I believe it is hate speech. It just so happens to be hate speech that is consistent with the Bible. Why should something hateful be protected just because it is part of a religion? I personally believe that he should be able to say what he wants if for no other reason to expose himself and his stupid religion for what it is. Hateful primitive nonsense.

You sir, are an ignorant buffoon at best, a totalitarian at worst. Do you study history? Do you read? Do you know what tends to happen when Free Speech is redefined as Free Speech Within The Approved Parameters Of The Government? Whether it's hateful or not is utterly irrelevent. You cannot go about banning what people say. So it's a "hate crime" to dissent against homosexuality? What happens if some government beurocrats decide that dissenting against the government is a hate crime, because the purpose of their "social democracy" is to help people? For someone who spends an excessive amount of time professing hatred of "superstition", you sure don't do too much thinking yourself.

 

[Said1]

I don't believe in the idea of "sin." I believe that we are smart enough in today's society to intuitively tell what is right and wrong. If it is natural for someone to be homosexual why can't they have CONSENSUAL sex with another homosexual? Doesn't seem to be harmful to me. And I personally find the idea quite repugnant. But repugnant!=evil.

I don't see how people can compare pedophilia which is clearly not consensual to consensual homosexuality. You'd really have to be a fucking idiot to see the 2 in the same light. And I will gladly hurl any warranted insult at any fucking idiot on this board that believes that.

Intuitively? We don't live within "the state of nature" anymore.

 

[KarlMarx]

The bible says homosexuality is a sin? Great. The bible says a lot of things, most of which have proven not to be true.

And where is your proof that the majority of pedophiles are homosexuals? It's been proven on this board that there are more girl cases of opposite sex pedophilia than same sex. So you either have a bad memory are you just told an outright lie. Which is it?

Yes, most cases involve contact with the opposite sex. However, on a per capita basis, gay men abuse boys at a much higher rate than the general population.

Most of the Bible has been proven not to be true?!?!?! Au contraire, most of the events in the Bible have been validated as historically accurate. Sure, the creation story, and some of the stories early on in Genesis (which constitutes less than 2-3% of the total number of chapters in the Bible) are open to debate, but from Abraham on, the veracity of the accounts within the Bible are accurate....

Joseph sold to the Ishmaelites for 20 pieces of silver (the going rate for slaves at the time)

The name of "Moses" comes from the Egyptian word "meses" - which can mean "comes forth", is born of

The Philistines, David's arch-nemeses, may have been "the Sea People" who invaded the Aegean and Egypt about the time of David (1000 BC)

Augustus was emperor during the time of the birth of Christ, Tiberius was emperor during the time of his death.... the going rate for slaves during Roman times, 30 pieces of silver

Pontius Pilate DID exist...

The historian Josephus also independently corroborated many of the statements within the New Testament

The Christmas Star mentioned in the Gospels, was either an alignment of the planets or a super-nova both of which occured around 4-6 BC.....

Evidence of a great catastrophe which leveled two ancient cities near the shores of the Dead Sea have been unearthed by archeologists (the cities were known as "Sodom and Gommorha" in the Bible.....

The city of Pi Ramses which was one of the cities of pharaoh also has been unearthed in Egypt

Egyptian women gave birth sitting up, as has been stated in the first chapters of Exodus

The island of Santorini exploded in the Agean around the time of the Exodus, which may account for the parting of the Red or Reed Sea (drawback of the sea is a common occurrence before a tsunami hits)...

 

[theHawk]

STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - A Pentecostal pastor charged with hate speech for denouncing homosexuality as a "cancerous tumor" defended his views in Sweden's highest court Wednesday, saying gay sex was an abnormality on a par with pedophilia.

Ake Green, 64, delivered a fiery anti-gay sermon two years ago that triggered a legal battle testing the limits of Sweden's freedom of speech.

Wow.

What I don't understand is where is the "hate speech" at? How is comparing it to pedophilia hate speech? I guess they're not allowed to debate such things anymore over there. Europe really has gone down the drain....

 

[MissileMan]

It has been proven time and time again the a majority of pedophiles are homosexuals. Case Closed.

Sorry GZ, but this is blatantly false. Heterosexual pedophiles outnumber homosexual pedophiles on the order of 9-19:1 depending on which studies are cited.

 

[GotZoom]

Sorry GZ, but this is blatantly false. Heterosexual pedophiles outnumber homosexual pedophiles on the order of 9-19:1 depending on which studies are cited.

Not that it will matter to you that much but:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26040&highlight=pedophile

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25279&highlight=pedophile

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19974&highlight=pedophile

 

[Powerman]

You sir, are an ignorant buffoon at best, a totalitarian at worst. Do you study history? Do you read? Do you know what tends to happen when Free Speech is redefined as Free Speech Within The Approved Parameters Of The Government? Whether it's hateful or not is utterly irrelevent. You cannot go about banning what people say. So it's a "hate crime" to dissent against homosexuality? What happens if some government beurocrats decide that dissenting against the government is a hate crime, because the purpose of their "social democracy" is to help people? For someone who spends an excessive amount of time professing hatred of "superstition", you sure don't do too much thinking yourself.

When did I say that free speech should be limited? I didn't. Why do you have a problem with me saying that comparing homosexuals to pedophiles is hate speech. What if I compared black people to monkeys? Would that be considered ok.

And I never said it was a hate "crime" to speak out against gays. I don't even like the term hate crime anyway. If you kill someone because they are black that makes you a murderer. The fact that you are racist doesn't matter to me. If you kill someone because they are gay which is what the bible says to do then you're a stupid fundamentalist murderer. The fact that you are a religious fundamentalist idiot to me is irrelevant to me because I'm more worried about the fact that you are a murderer.

Maybe you should try rehashing your points a little bit better. I never said free speech should be limited and while I said it is hateful speech I never said it was a crime. No go back in the corner and think before you post.

 

[MissileMan]

Not that it will matter to you that much but:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26040&highlight=pedophile

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25279&highlight=pedophile

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19974&highlight=pedophile

I've been involved in those threads and know what they say, and even those who are vehemently opposed to homosexuals have never claimed that the majority of pedophiles are homosexual as you did. There is an alleged higher percentage of homosexual pedophiles as compared to the percentage of homosexuals within the general population. Again, the percentage varies depending on which study is cited. Some 75% of molestation victims were molested by the OPPOSITE sex. Clearly, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual.

 

[GotZoom]

I've been involved in those threads and know what they say, and even those who are vehemently opposed to homosexuals have never claimed that the majority of pedophiles are homosexual as you did. There is an alleged higher percentage of homosexual pedophiles as compared to the percentage of homosexuals within the general population. Again, the percentage varies depending on which study is cited. Some 75% of molestation victims were molested by the OPPOSITE sex. Clearly, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual.

Sigh.

Here goes.

Homosexuals Molest Children At A Far Higher Rate Than Heterosexuals

Homosexuals account for only 1-2% of our population based on current surveys. The National Opinion Research Center in 1992 found that 2.8% of men and 1.4% of women identified themselves as “homosexual” or “bisexual. A 1995 survey of 18-49-year-old men published by the Journal of Sex Research indicated that 2.6% of them had engaged in homosexual sex within the prior 12 months; 4% had had homosexual sex within the past five years. In other words, at least 98-99% of our population is heterosexual in orientation.

Homosexual activists routinely claim that most child molesters are “heterosexual” males, thus shifting the focus away from their own very high rates of molestation. Since 98-99% of the population is heterosexual, it is technically correct to say that most molestations are done by heterosexuals. However, statistics indicate that homosexuals pose a far more serious threat to children than do heterosexuals.

For example: In 1987, Dr. Stephen Rubin of Whitman College conducted a ten-state study of sex abuse cases involving school teachers. He studied 199 cases. Of those, 122 male teachers had molested girls, while 14 female teachers had molested boys. He also discovered that 59 homosexual male teachers had molested boys and four female homosexual teachers had molested girls. In other words, 32 percent of those child molestation cases involved homosexuals. Nearly a third of these cases come from only 1-2% of the population.

Dr. Judith Reisman, in her book, Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences, describes the research done by Dr. Gene Abel. This researcher compared the molestation rates of self-confessed homosexual and heterosexual child molesters. In a sample of 153 homosexual molesters, they confessed to a total of 22,981 molestations. This is equivalent to 150 children per molester. Self-admitted heterosexual molesters admitted to 4,435 molestations. This comes to 19.8 victims per molester. Dr. Abel concluded that homosexuals “sexually molest young boys at an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls.”

This high rate of molestations by homosexuals is consistent with other studies conducted during the past several decades. Here are just a few studies that show homosexuals molesting children at epidemic rates:

The Los Angeles Times conducted a survey in 1985 of 2,628 adults across the U.S. Of those, 27% of the women and 16% of the men had been sexually molested. Seven percent of the girls and 93% of the men had been molested by adults of the same sex. This means that 40% of child molestations were by homosexuals. (Los Angeles Times, August 25-6, 1985)

In 1984, a Vermont survey of 161 adolescents who were sex offenders found that 35 of them were homosexuals (22%). (Wasserman, J., “Adolescent Sex Offenders—Vermont, 1984” Journal American Medical Association, 1986; 255:181-2)

In 1991, of the 100 child molesters at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons, a third were heterosexual, a third were bisexual, and a third were homosexual. (Dr. Raymond Knight, “Differential Prevalence of Personality Disorders in Rapists and Child Molesters,” Eastern Psychological Association Conference, New York, April 12, 1991)

Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two studies on child molesters and calculated that 34% and 32% of the sex offenders were homosexual. In cases these doctors had handled, 36% of the molesters were homosexuals. (Freund, K. “Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 1984; 10:193-200)

http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php

 

[Powerman]

Yes, most cases involve contact with the opposite sex. However, on a per capita basis, gay men abuse boys at a much higher rate than the general population.

Most of the Bible has been proven not to be true?!?!?! Au contraire, most of the events in the Bible have been validated as historically accurate. Sure, the creation story, and some of the stories early on in Genesis (which constitutes less than 2-3% of the total number of chapters in the Bible) are open to debate, but from Abraham on, the veracity of the accounts within the Bible are accurate....

Joseph sold to the Ishmaelites for 20 pieces of silver (the going rate for slaves at the time)

The name of "Moses" comes from the Egyptian word "meses" - which can mean "comes forth", is born of

The Philistines, David's arch-nemeses, may have been "the Sea People" who invaded the Aegean and Egypt about the time of David (1000 BC)

Augustus was emperor during the time of the birth of Christ, Tiberius was emperor during the time of his death.... the going rate for slaves during Roman times, 30 pieces of silver

Pontius Pilate DID exist...

The historian Josephus also independently corroborated many of the statements within the New Testament

The Christmas Star mentioned in the Gospels, was either an alignment of the planets or a super-nova both of which occured around 4-6 BC.....

Evidence of a great catastrophe which leveled two ancient cities near the shores of the Dead Sea have been unearthed by archeologists (the cities were known as "Sodom and Gommorha" in the Bible.....

The city of Pi Ramses which was one of the cities of pharaoh also has been unearthed in Egypt

Egyptian women gave birth sitting up, as has been stated in the first chapters of Exodus

The island of Santorini exploded in the Agean around the time of the Exodus, which may account for the parting of the Red or Reed Sea (drawback of the sea is a common occurrence before a tsunami hits)...

But what you are stating as truth is that certain people existed. That's not even the important stuff in the bible. If you can prove that the earth was covered with water above mount Everest with a few feet to spare then you're onto something.

 

[MissileMan]

Sigh.

Here goes.

Homosexuals Molest Children At A Far Higher Rate Than Heterosexuals

Homosexuals account for only 1-2% of our population based on current surveys. The National Opinion Research Center in 1992 found that 2.8% of men and 1.4% of women identified themselves as “homosexual” or “bisexual. A 1995 survey of 18-49-year-old men published by the Journal of Sex Research indicated that 2.6% of them had engaged in homosexual sex within the prior 12 months; 4% had had homosexual sex within the past five years. In other words, at least 98-99% of our population is heterosexual in orientation.

Homosexual activists routinely claim that most child molesters are “heterosexual” males, thus shifting the focus away from their own very high rates of molestation. Since 98-99% of the population is heterosexual, it is technically correct to say that most molestations are done by heterosexuals. However, statistics indicate that homosexuals pose a far more serious threat to children than do heterosexuals.

For example: In 1987, Dr. Stephen Rubin of Whitman College conducted a ten-state study of sex abuse cases involving school teachers. He studied 199 cases. Of those, 122 male teachers had molested girls, while 14 female teachers had molested boys. He also discovered that 59 homosexual male teachers had molested boys and four female homosexual teachers had molested girls. In other words, 32 percent of those child molestation cases involved homosexuals. Nearly a third of these cases come from only 1-2% of the population.

Dr. Judith Reisman, in her book, Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences, describes the research done by Dr. Gene Abel. This researcher compared the molestation rates of self-confessed homosexual and heterosexual child molesters. In a sample of 153 homosexual molesters, they confessed to a total of 22,981 molestations. This is equivalent to 150 children per molester. Self-admitted heterosexual molesters admitted to 4,435 molestations. This comes to 19.8 victims per molester. Dr. Abel concluded that homosexuals “sexually molest young boys at an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls.”

This high rate of molestations by homosexuals is consistent with other studies conducted during the past several decades. Here are just a few studies that show homosexuals molesting children at epidemic rates:

The Los Angeles Times conducted a survey in 1985 of 2,628 adults across the U.S. Of those, 27% of the women and 16% of the men had been sexually molested. Seven percent of the girls and 93% of the men had been molested by adults of the same sex. This means that 40% of child molestations were by homosexuals. (Los Angeles Times, August 25-6, 1985)

In 1984, a Vermont survey of 161 adolescents who were sex offenders found that 35 of them were homosexuals (22%). (Wasserman, J., “Adolescent Sex Offenders—Vermont, 1984” Journal American Medical Association, 1986; 255:181-2)

In 1991, of the 100 child molesters at the Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons, a third were heterosexual, a third were bisexual, and a third were homosexual. (Dr. Raymond Knight, “Differential Prevalence of Personality Disorders in Rapists and Child Molesters,” Eastern Psychological Association Conference, New York, April 12, 1991)

Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clark Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two studies on child molesters and calculated that 34% and 32% of the sex offenders were homosexual. In cases these doctors had handled, 36% of the molesters were homosexuals. (Freund, K. “Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 1984; 10:193-200)

http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php

And none of that equals

It has been proven time and time again the majority of pedophiles are homosexuals. Case Closed.

 

[Powerman]

"The National Opinion Research Center in 1992 found that 2.8% of men and 1.4% of women identified themselves as “homosexual” or “bisexual"

I'm glad you are using up to date information.

But this is the thing. You didn't come out and say that it was on a per capita basis. You acted as if the number of pedophiles overall was made up of a majority of homosexuals. That's a lie.

 

[Powerman]

And none of that equals

 

[GotZoom]

Ohhh..ok.

What a clever post.

When you take those numbers, and do the math based on homosexuals being only 1 to 2 percent of the total population....

It's cool..you won't see it.

You don't want to.

No worries.

 

[Powerman]

Ohhh..ok.

What a clever post.

When you take those numbers, and do the math based on homosexuals being only 1 to 2 percent of the total population....

It's cool..you won't see it.

You don't want to.

No worries.

The point is you tried to act as if the majority of pedophiles are homos when that simply wasn't the case. Be careful about how you say things next time.