Sustainable engergy independence?

[Old Rocks]

Mr H........I would like to see a graph that compars COST per Kilowatt on that chart. Nuclear costs a lot to build but provides good "clean" energy. I think the Gov't should build the Nuke plants and lease them to the energy COs. Solar power has a GREAT potential for CLEAN CHEAP POWER. After the initial cost is done it is ALL FREE POWER....Same thing with Wind though it would require some maitinance it would be basically FREE power. How you poeple can express disgust with FREE CLEAN power stuns me.

This bunch of trolls basically are echo boxes for the Rushpublican Talking Points. They have no knowledge of the real world, and I do believe that some of them only get out of their mothers basements when the need to make a trip to the local Seven-Eleven for another case of beer

 

[Oddball]

Big fat hairy deal.

Point out the metals smelting and fabrication plant that works on wind and/or solar.

Since the alternative energies are startup industries, the amount of power they are contributing is still a small fractional amount of the total power needed. However, since the power from the mills, geothermal, and solar is put on the same grid as the other power, it is fair to say that all of the above plants work on the power that they create. One might also note that in Oregon and Washington state, the majority of our power is non-polluting. For most of our power is generated by the dams on the mighty Columbia.

If you had to build the Grand Coolee today, environmentalist whacko moonbats like you would shit yourselves over some minnow or mosquito.

Best quit while you're behind, you old foo.

 

[Oddball]

Mr H........I would like to see a graph that compars COST per Kilowatt on that chart. Nuclear costs a lot to build but provides good "clean" energy. I think the Gov't should build the Nuke plants and lease them to the energy COs. Solar power has a GREAT potential for CLEAN CHEAP POWER. After the initial cost is done it is ALL FREE POWER....Same thing with Wind though it would require some maitinance it would be basically FREE power. How you poeple can express disgust with FREE CLEAN power stuns me.

This bunch of trolls basically are echo boxes for the Rushpublican Talking Points. They have no knowledge of the real world, and I do believe that some of them only get out of their mothers basements when the need to make a trip to the local Seven-Eleven for another case of beer

And blathereing whacko idiots like you have no fucking idea how real world business accounting and cost-benefit analyses work.

 

[Old Rocks]

Mr H........I would like to see a graph that compars COST per Kilowatt on that chart. Nuclear costs a lot to build but provides good "clean" energy. I think the Gov't should build the Nuke plants and lease them to the energy COs. Solar power has a GREAT potential for CLEAN CHEAP POWER. After the initial cost is done it is ALL FREE POWER....Same thing with Wind though it would require some maitinance it would be basically FREE power. How you poeple can express disgust with FREE CLEAN power stuns me.

Energy Futures – A quick guide to alternative energy | Paths to Global Markets

There is a pretty good breakdown of costs at this site. One thing to remember, centralized power, nukes, coal plants, also mean centralized profits. Wind, solar, and geo-thermal are not centralized, so the profits get spread around in the general population. Much preferable to have many people having a good addition to their incomes, than just a few very wealthy people getting even more wealthy.

Their take on solar is out of date, as the cost of solar has taken an order of magnititude drop in price, and will shortly take an even steeper drop. Also, since we have hundreds of square miles of commercial rooftops that can be used, and are already on the grid, that reduces the cost of bringing that source on grid.

 

[Old Rocks]

Mr H........I would like to see a graph that compars COST per Kilowatt on that chart. Nuclear costs a lot to build but provides good "clean" energy. I think the Gov't should build the Nuke plants and lease them to the energy COs. Solar power has a GREAT potential for CLEAN CHEAP POWER. After the initial cost is done it is ALL FREE POWER....Same thing with Wind though it would require some maitinance it would be basically FREE power. How you poeple can express disgust with FREE CLEAN power stuns me.

Problem being that the break-even point, viz. installation and maintenance costs, cannot be reached in a decent time frame. Otherwise, entrepreneurs who smelled a fatter bottom line or a more competitive price structure already would have made the conversion on their own. Moreover, there'd be no need for massive subsidies.

Really? Then why the hell have we been giving the coal and oil companies massive subsidies for generations?

 

[Old Rocks]

Big fat hairy deal.

Point out the metals smelting and fabrication plant that works on wind and/or solar.

Since the alternative energies are startup industries, the amount of power they are contributing is still a small fractional amount of the total power needed. However, since the power from the mills, geothermal, and solar is put on the same grid as the other power, it is fair to say that all of the above plants work on the power that they create. One might also note that in Oregon and Washington state, the majority of our power is non-polluting. For most of our power is generated by the dams on the mighty Columbia.

If you had to build the Grand Coolee today, environmentalist whacko moonbats like you would shit yourselves over some minnow or mosquito.

Best quit while you're behind, you old foo.

If we were to build the Grand Coolee today, we would put a very good fish ladder on it. There used to be a run of Kings that went all the way to Montana to spawn that was destroyed by the failure to put a fish ladder at the Grand Coolee dam. Many of them weighed in at 90 lbs+.

Environmentalist whacko moonbats. Braindead Rsuhpublican wingnuts. Very easy to reduce the arguement to that level.

By the way, come to Oregon and refer to our salmon as some irrelevant minnow. Do so in the presence of some of our more enthusiastic conservative outdoorsmen and women. The result will make a very interesting video.

 

[Old Rocks]

Mr H........I would like to see a graph that compars COST per Kilowatt on that chart. Nuclear costs a lot to build but provides good "clean" energy. I think the Gov't should build the Nuke plants and lease them to the energy COs. Solar power has a GREAT potential for CLEAN CHEAP POWER. After the initial cost is done it is ALL FREE POWER....Same thing with Wind though it would require some maitinance it would be basically FREE power. How you poeple can express disgust with FREE CLEAN power stuns me.

This bunch of trolls basically are echo boxes for the Rushpublican Talking Points. They have no knowledge of the real world, and I do believe that some of them only get out of their mothers basements when the need to make a trip to the local Seven-Eleven for another case of beer

And blathereing whacko idiots like you have no fucking idea how real world business accounting and cost-benefit analyses work.

We have 22 wind farms built or in the process of coming on line in Oregon. These are being built by businesses for profit. And they are turning enough profit that it is hard for the state to keep up with the permitting process. If we could get a large capicity grid from Klamath Falls east to the Idaho border, there would ten times that many just on that grid.

 

[Oddball]

So what?...None of those could've been built without massive subsidies and without the burning of huge amounts of coal, oil or natural gas in the manufacturing and installation processes.

Like I said, you have NFI about business accounting or cost/benefit analyses.

 

[Old Rocks]

So what?...None of those could've been built without massive subsidies and without the burning of huge amounts of coal, oil or natural gas in the manufacturing and installation processes.

Like I said, you have NFI about business accounting or cost/benefit analyses.

LOL. Exactly the same arguements were used against building the dams on the Columbia River during Roosevelts administration. No one argued those benefits when we were smelting aluminum for the B-17's a short time later.

 

[Mr. H.]

sustainable:... of, relating to, or being a method of harvesting or using a resource so that the resource is not depleted or permanently damaged.

This is management of resources. It includes natural resources such as hydrocarbons.
Any plan must include coal, oil, and natural gas.

 

[mdn2000]

Old Crock, I checked your link to the story and in the story there is no information indicating your lie is true, there is nothing in the story, did you not think I would look. You are a fool.

Old Crock, why did you post false information in Climate Change, I just spent the last hour looking at all the threads once again and its right there, you knowingly posted a false story that was proven false that Old Crock knew was false, why does Old Crock lie?

Old Crock, you cannot even debate your idiotic assertions, you simply post a link to someone a little bit more intelligent than Old Crock and Old Crock beleives that to be reason and debate.

So according to Old Crock the wind farms installed capacity can already meet Washington states entire electrical needs yet there are 26 more wind farms planned, how can that be, you already have more than enough capacity so more wind farms are going to be installed? That makes no sense.

Sure corporations will install more wind farms, its the law, they are simply following law passed by politicians that are as smart as Old Crock, Old Crock who lies in posts, remember the false data Old Crock has knowingly posted.

Further, Old Crock states they will do this simply for profit yet Old Crock does not tell us that this profit is in the form of taking more taxes from all the people of the United States and giving the money to huge corporations, this is the profit Old Crock is talking about, taking taxes to give to corporations. The other little detail Old Crock hides is that the states and federal government will tax Oil, Gas, Coal, Natural Gas, and Nuclear power to make this electrical power so expensive so that tax subsidized wind farms will be perceived to have value and be competive in price.

Yes, Old Crock will happily have all our electrical bills go up 1000%

Old Crock, your link that shows the wind farms capacity is a link to a lie, there was no information in the story at all to even give an indication that the energy claimed was produced.

The story only showed that if it was true no more wind farms would be needed.

So tell us about the Hansen lie you posted in Climate Change.

 

[Oddball]

So what?...None of those could've been built without massive subsidies and without the burning of huge amounts of coal, oil or natural gas in the manufacturing and installation processes.

Like I said, you have NFI about business accounting or cost/benefit analyses.

LOL. Exactly the same arguements were used against building the dams on the Columbia River during Roosevelts administration. No one argued those benefits when we were smelting aluminum for the B-17's a short time later.

Thanks for confirming that you have NFI.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

This bunch of trolls basically are echo boxes for the Rushpublican Talking Points. They have no knowledge of the real world, and I do believe that some of them only get out of their mothers basements when the need to make a trip to the local Seven-Eleven for another case of beer

And blathereing whacko idiots like you have no fucking idea how real world business accounting and cost-benefit analyses work.

We have 22 wind farms built or in the process of coming on line in Oregon. These are being built by businesses for profit. And they are turning enough profit that it is hard for the state to keep up with the permitting process. If we could get a large capicity grid from Klamath Falls east to the Idaho border, there would ten times that many just on that grid.

I hope we do get one here in Klameth Falls. Their is a landowner trying to fight it because it will destroy her view.....HER VIEW I couldn't really give a shit LESS about HER VIEW. We need to bring these wind farms on-line ASAP......Oh and by the way I hated the Kennedy's for the EXACT SAME reason because they did not want them off the coast of their land. I for one think they look beautiful.

 

[xÞx]

sustainable energy, these are proven sustainable enegy sources

Nuclear
Oil
Coal
Natural gas

I must not understand the definition of sustainability.

You must not understand a whole lot about energy. Name one form of energy that will not use one of the the above four for the production of said energy.

The second sentence is quite ironic when places after the first

Either way you understand sustainability and each of these four energies are proven sustainable into the future for thousands of years, stuff like windmills and solar panels need be replaced much more ofter than other type of power plant.

We have fossil fuel resources that'll last thousands of years?

source?

Its the ignorant that believe in the sustainability of wind and solar,

The sun's going to stop?

if it does, we have bigger problems that eletricity

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Now I don't like Gov't mandates but if every house in high intensity areas with a lot sun because they would provide power when it is MOST needed(when people use the most power to cool their houses. Just think of how much it would save during PEAK hours. California would no longer face rolling brown and black outs.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

If we could get to the moon and get Hydrogen3 we could produce nuclear power with almost NONE of the nuke waste.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

A long way away I will be the first to admit but just think about the possibilities.

 

[mdn2000]

We have fossil fuel resources that'll last thousands of years?

source?

Where is your source? The source for oil is the ground.

The sun's going to stop?

if it does, we have bigger problems that eletricity

Yep, the sun is going to stop, every night the sun stops, not to mention rainy days.

Either way solar or windmills must be manufactored with fossil fuels.

Wind blows about 10% of the time in the areas wind farms are located.

Solar in the best location receives sun 10% -20% of the year.

Not very sustainable.

Oregon is receiving grants for wind farms, that is a direct subsidy, not to mention massive tax breaks.

No matter, you need OIL for solar and wind, without oil you cannot make a windmill nor a solar panel.

Wind and Solar power besides being extremely expensive and ultra low power depend on oil. Run out of oil than you aint got wind or solar.

Why do the idiots simply post what they think without researching what they are told to think.

Fools.

 

[Old Rocks]

We have fossil fuel resources that'll last thousands of years?

source?

Where is your source? The source for oil is the ground.

The sun's going to stop?

if it does, we have bigger problems that eletricity

Yep, the sun is going to stop, every night the sun stops, not to mention rainy days.

The next generation of solar cells are about 40% efficient, and will pick up energy even on cloudy days.

Either way solar or windmills must be manufactored with fossil fuels.

And when we started building trucks and cars, the parts were brought in on horse drawn wagons. So we should require everybody to keep horses so we can continue to build trucks and cars? That is the illogic of your arguement.

Wind blows about 10% of the time in the areas wind farms are located.

Now just where did you pull that figure out of, your ass? Because it is complete bullshit.

Solar in the best location receives sun 10% -20% of the year.

I see. Most of the US is in total darkness for 80% to 90% of the year. That is what you just said. What a damned moronic statement!

Not very sustainable.

Really? That is why people are putting up wind turbines and solar panels at rates that double and triple every year?

Oregon is receiving grants for wind farms, that is a direct subsidy, not to mention massive tax breaks.

Exactly as have the coal and oil companies for decades. Time to put that money out for clean energy.
No matter, you need OIL for solar and wind, without oil you cannot make a windmill nor a solar panel.

And you needed horses to deliver the parts for the first trucks and automobiles. How many horse drawn wagons do you see entering the gates at the plants at present?

Wind and Solar power besides being extremely expensive and ultra low power depend on oil. Run out of oil than you aint got wind or solar.

Wind is at the same cost as dirty coal right now. And half the cost of the projected cost of clean coal. Solar will be even cheaper as the new technology comes on line.

Why do the idiots simply post what they think without researching what they are told to think.

Why are you talking to yourself? You have not posted a single link to support you assertations.

Fools.

Proposed renewable-energy bill is better than nothing | Grist

Note what happens to the cost of coal in a "clean coal" plant. And that cost will only go up, whereas the costs of the alternatives continue downward, expecially wind and solar.

 

[mdn2000]

We have fossil fuel resources that'll last thousands of years?

source?

Where is your source? The source for oil is the ground.

The sun's going to stop?

if it does, we have bigger problems that eletricity

Yep, the sun is going to stop, every night the sun stops, not to mention rainy days.

The next generation of solar cells are about 40% efficient, and will pick up energy even on cloudy days.

Either way solar or windmills must be manufactored with fossil fuels.

And when we started building trucks and cars, the parts were brought in on horse drawn wagons. So we should require everybody to keep horses so we can continue to build trucks and cars? That is the illogic of your arguement.

Wind blows about 10% of the time in the areas wind farms are located.

Now just where did you pull that figure out of, your ass? Because it is complete bullshit.

Solar in the best location receives sun 10% -20% of the year.

I see. Most of the US is in total darkness for 80% to 90% of the year. That is what you just said. What a damned moronic statement!

Not very sustainable.

Really? That is why people are putting up wind turbines and solar panels at rates that double and triple every year?

Oregon is receiving grants for wind farms, that is a direct subsidy, not to mention massive tax breaks.

Exactly as have the coal and oil companies for decades. Time to put that money out for clean energy.
No matter, you need OIL for solar and wind, without oil you cannot make a windmill nor a solar panel.

And you needed horses to deliver the parts for the first trucks and automobiles. How many horse drawn wagons do you see entering the gates at the plants at present?

Wind and Solar power besides being extremely expensive and ultra low power depend on oil. Run out of oil than you aint got wind or solar.

Wind is at the same cost as dirty coal right now. And half the cost of the projected cost of clean coal. Solar will be even cheaper as the new technology comes on line.

Why do the idiots simply post what they think without researching what they are told to think.

Why are you talking to yourself? You have not posted a single link to support you assertations.

Fools.

Proposed renewable-energy bill is better than nothing | Grist

Note what happens to the cost of coal in a "clean coal" plant. And that cost will only go up, whereas the costs of the alternatives continue downward, expecially wind and solar.

Your links are useless, my post stands as fact. Seriously, dont you get it, you are taking money out of my pocket, my tax money, my children's money, for lousy, weak, expensive energy.

Who are you to take my money, there is nothing proposed or made that is sustainable, everything is going to run out, if you continue to post links that you think dispute this fact than you must be nothing more than a political hack.

Tell me, are you a Marxist. Seriously, what is your purpose, I have told you the facts and not one person is able to dispute my fact, so given fact, whats your drive, marxism.