Surge to Nowhere

[DeadCanDance]

If someone came to you six years ago and said that for only $2 trillion, you could have for your colony a burned out country, a failed state, and a semi-permanent incubator of terrorism and hatred against the US, would you have ponied up the money? That's what you've got, and that is what it cost you. Detroit could have used some of that money. New Orleans could have used some of that money. Appalachia has lots of schools that need to be painted.

The argument could be made that Israel is safer with Saddam Hussein out of power. But that argument does not hold water. Current Iraqi leaders such as Muqtada al-Sadr and Adnan Dulaimi are not less anti-Israel than Saddam, and it turns out he did not have WMD with which to attack Israel anyway. The Shiites of Iraq will certainly side with Hizbullah against Israel, which may actually mean that Israel is less secure now than before. Moreover, to have substantial turmoil on their doorstep just cannot be good for the Israelis.

You could argue that US petroleum corporations are now well placed to bid on Iraqi oil development. But what with doomsday cults planning a takeover of the petroleum facilities, it will be some time before it is safe for US corporations to operate in Iraq. China and Holland (Shell) are being looked upon favorably by the Iraqi government as investors.

And anyway, if the US government had thrown the $2 trillion and more that Iraq will end up costing at green energy development, both we and the earth would have been far better off. At a time when the US military is paying 60,000 Sunni Arab Iraqis $300 a month each not to fight us, it is pretty hard to justify letting the US working class sink, without any government help, into penury and homelessness in the face of the mortgage crisis and the recession. The Iraq War may or may not be good for Houston. It is certainly bad for Iraq and for everyone else.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/18/AR2008011802873.html

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Cry me a river

 

[Alucard]

b

If someone came to you six years ago and said that for only $2 trillion, you could have for your colony a burned out country, a failed state, and a semi-permanent incubator of terrorism and hatred against the US, would you have ponied up the money? That's what you've got, and that is what it cost you. Detroit could have used some of that money. New Orleans could have used some of that money. Appalachia has lots of schools that need to be painted.

The argument could be made that Israel is safer with Saddam Hussein out of power. But that argument does not hold water. Current Iraqi leaders such as Muqtada al-Sadr and Adnan Dulaimi are not less anti-Israel than Saddam, and it turns out he did not have WMD with which to attack Israel anyway. The Shiites of Iraq will certainly side with Hizbullah against Israel, which may actually mean that Israel is less secure now than before. Moreover, to have substantial turmoil on their doorstep just cannot be good for the Israelis.

You could argue that US petroleum corporations are now well placed to bid on Iraqi oil development. But what with doomsday cults planning a takeover of the petroleum facilities, it will be some time before it is safe for US corporations to operate in Iraq. China and Holland (Shell) are being looked upon favorably by the Iraqi government as investors.

And anyway, if the US government had thrown the $2 trillion and more that Iraq will end up costing at green energy development, both we and the earth would have been far better off. At a time when the US military is paying 60,000 Sunni Arab Iraqis $300 a month each not to fight us, it is pretty hard to justify letting the US working class sink, without any government help, into penury and homelessness in the face of the mortgage crisis and the recession. The Iraq War may or may not be good for Houston. It is certainly bad for Iraq and for everyone else.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/18/AR2008011802873.html

I think the best thing for you to do now would be to get a gun and kill youself to end the misery... As a matter of fact it would be the best thing you could do for your country too!...

I will personlly give $300.00 to a homeless minority in your honor once we have official word of you demise!

Thanks for doing all you can for the needy...

 

[rayboyusmc]

3900 dead real American Patriots.

FOR WHAT? There was less a threat when Bush attacked than there is today from the terrorists.

Like General Butler said: War Is (Still) A Racket

The arms manufacturers profit and our military die.

What a crock of crap.

 

[Alucard]

BUSH attacked??

That is the only crock of crap I smell...

ONLY Congress has that authority....

Stop lying about the president to advance you anti american agenda...

When American supposed veterans like you speak falsehoods about our president, you only boost moral of islamic extremists who in return kill american kids... because men like you attack your president instead of supporting our troops...

So every time you open that hole in your brainless head remember your words are the reason many terrorists are motivated to press on and attack Americans fighting for our country...

I would say a good portion of the blood of those Three thousand nine hundred kids is on the hands of you and the rest of liberals that do nothing more than hurt the effort...

Someday... hopefully soon... we will round up all the treasonist AlQueda sympathizers like yourself and give you what you deserve...

 

[AllieBaba]

It's impossible to gauge whether there's less or more of a threat. It's just a make-believe claim. The only way we can really determine that is based on this...have there been more attacks on American soil since we went to war?

Nope.

So there's the proof. No more attacks = safer.

 

[Alucard]

It's impossible to gauge whether there's less or more of a threat. It's just a make-believe claim. The only way we can really determine that is based on this...have there been more attacks on American soil since we went to war?

Nope.

So there's the proof. No more attacks = safer.

Of course it is a make believe claim... Men like him are living in fantasy worlds... They lie so much they start to believe their own lies...

Like most pets his memory is short... and he already forgot the day our friends and neighbors were jumping 80 stories from the World Trade Center because it was the least painful way to die...

Much safer then....

 

[rayboyusmc]

Stop lying about the president to advance you anti american agenda...

Up yours sweetie. I put in my twenty + in the Corps. I didn't do it because I am anti American. What a bigoted bullshit statement. If you don't have facts, then do the personal attack.

I don't believe I have called you anti American even if you follow lock step with Bush. Or do you want a USA that only believes what you do?

When freedom is speech is outlawed, then the terrorists have won and so have the Americans who fear free speech.

Even the CIA (I don't believe they are a liberal organization) said that the terrorist threat has increased since Bush lied to Congress to get his war. He did lie about WMDs etfukkingcetera. But you are still in denial.

WASHINGTON — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by U.S. intelligence agencies has found that the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2003272931_terrorintel24.html

The fact that we have not had a second attack doesn't prove anything.

Think about those attacks that have been discovered and prevented. It wasn't from the war in Iraq, it was by good intelligence and police work. That is the way we will defeat terrorism. Infiltrate and kill them from within.

You can't beat terrorism on a frigging conventional battelfield. All you can do is kill some of the low level fighters and maybe a few leaders, and make a great recruiting tool for them.

The problem with this approach is that it takes time and doesn't make money like a convetional war.

Have a grape day.

 

[rayboyusmc]

and he already forgot the day our friends and neighbors were jumping 80 stories from the World Trade Center because it was the least painful way to die...

No I haven't forgot that.

Did you forget that all but one of those who attacked US were Saudi's? You know, the Saudi's who are Bush's friends. He just did the little sword dance with them. Is Ossama a Saudi or an Iraqi?

Saddam didn't do it. Even Bush has admitted that there was no tie between 9-11 and Saddam. You need to quit listening to the Cheney's lies.

I guess Lemmings could be pets.

 

[Alucard]

Up yours sweetie. I put in my twenty + in the Corps. I didn't do it because I am anti American. What a bigoted bullshit statement. If you don't have facts, then do the personal attack..

Facts... ok lets deal with facts... where is the evidence bush lied...

I'll wait... but I wont hold my breath because there is NONE... So that makes YOU the liar doesnt it...

In your 20+ did you learn anything about propaganda used to help the enemy... I guess not.. because you supply plenty....or are you lying about that too.

I don't believe I have called you anti American even if you follow lock step with Bush. Or do you want a USA that only believes what you do?..

I am by no way a die hard Bushie, But I do respect the position which
is obviously more than you can say... And to call me Anti american simply would not apply to trhe text.. I am not the one making statements that endanger our troops... that was you!

When freedom is speech is outlawed, then the terrorists have won and so have the Americans who fear free speech.

Your words are borderline treason ... how do you think our founding fathers who wrote the declaration would of handled someone like you in the late 1700's?.... I'll tell you ... they would of rightfully killed you already!

Even the CIA (I don't believe they are a liberal organization) said that the terrorist threat has increased since Bush lied to Congress to get his war. He did lie about WMDs etfukkingcetera. But you are still in denial

Once again calling the president a liar... Are you confusing him with the Clintons? Once again ... NO FACTS... do you need me to post on of the several thousand links showing the country IS safer now....

The fact that we have not had a second attack doesn't prove anything.

That sentence is my favorite... What grade did you quit school?...

Listen to what you said... "THE FACT" that we have not had a second attack "DOESNT PROVE ANYTHING"... how fucking stupid can you be... Oh thats right... when it comes to libs facts are just plain too confusing and inconveinient..

Think about those attacks that have been discovered and prevented. It wasn't from the war in Iraq, it was by good intelligence and police work. That is the way we will defeat terrorism. Infiltrate and kill them from within..

I agree... And I also believe our inteligence on saddam before the war was good.. I believe he had wmd's... and thanks to the interferance of the UN he had plenty of time to get them thru syria and int the soviet union... Where we disagree is ....who is the enemy within?... I think it is men like you that attack the administration out of pure hatred... I do agree however with what we should do with them...

You can't beat terrorism on a frigging conventional battelfield. All you can do is kill some of the low level fighters and maybe a few leaders, and make a great recruiting tool for them.

The problem with this approach is that it takes time and doesn't make money like a convetional war...

"Build it and they will come" How many thousands AQ fighters and supporters and leaders came to Iraq to challenge us and died...?

It is amazing that the military let you go!... You clearly have all the answers on how to conquer terrorism...

 

[DeadCanDance]

It's impossible to gauge whether there's less or more of a threat. It's just a make-believe claim. The only way we can really determine that is based on this...have there been more attacks on American soil since we went to war?

Nope.

So there's the proof. No more attacks = safer.

LMAO!

I'll remember that you used the caveat "on american soil" next time you talk about terrorist attacks during the clinton admin.

There was only one "attack on american soil" during the clinton years too. So, I guess we don't have to count all the attacks that have happened against americans and our allies in iraq, in saudi arabia, in africa, or in turkey, spain, or london.

 

[maineman]

BUSH attacked??

That is the only crock of crap I smell...

ONLY Congress has that authority....

Stop lying about the president to advance you anti american agenda...

When American supposed veterans like you speak falsehoods about our president, you only boost moral of islamic extremists who in return kill american kids... because men like you attack your president instead of supporting our troops...

So every time you open that hole in your brainless head remember your words are the reason many terrorists are motivated to press on and attack Americans fighting for our country...

I would say a good portion of the blood of those Three thousand nine hundred kids is on the hands of you and the rest of liberals that do nothing more than hurt the effort...

Someday... hopefully soon... we will round up all the treasonist AlQueda sympathizers like yourself and give you what you deserve...

congress certainly did not attack Iraq. They merely gave Bush the authority to do so after he had exhausted all diplomatic alternatives - which he never did.

And for a guy who has the laughing Christ as his avatar, you certainly wish ill on people in ways that I am pretty sure Jesus would not do.

 

[Alucard]

LMAO!

I'll remember that you used the caveat "on american soil" next time you talk about terrorist attacks during the clinton admin.

There was only one "attack on american soil" during the clinton years too. So, I guess we don't have to count all the attacks that have happened against americans and our allies in iraq, in saudi arabia, in africa, or in turkey, spain, or london.

Bill clintons NON REACTION to terror is the reason we were attacked on 9/11...

Bills famous words" We will track down these terrorists and kill them"...

...then he went and got a blowjob instead...

 

[Alucard]

congress certainly did not attack Iraq. They merely gave Bush the authority to do so after he had exhausted all diplomatic alternatives - which he never did.

And for a guy who has the laughing Christ as his avatar, you certainly wish ill on people in ways that I am pretty sure Jesus would not do.

I'm tired of repeating myself MM... Beating up, and making up lies about the administration, and dwelling on the past, is not going to help us move ahead...

I am not a big supporter of the Iraq war... But I am a supporter of the troops and as you know I believe discrediting the administration hurts our boys in Iraq...

I want to get out of there too... But , we have to stay and secure the situation first....especially if you and rayboy are right... We owe that to the Iraqi people...

I want Bin Ladins head on a plate, And there is one place we will agree he is not hiding...Iraq...

Lets get this done and get to the job at hand... defeating AQ...

I wish no ill will on rayboy... I'm just pointing out the fact that you walk a thin line of commiting treason when you knowingly lie about the commander and cheif... And the penalty for treason is death...

 

[Zoomie1980]

If someone came to you six years ago and said that for only $2 trillion, you could have for your colony a burned out country, a failed state, and a semi-permanent incubator of terrorism and hatred against the US, would you have ponied up the money? That's what you've got, and that is what it cost you. Detroit could have used some of that money. New Orleans could have used some of that money. Appalachia has lots of schools that need to be painted.

The argument could be made that Israel is safer with Saddam Hussein out of power. But that argument does not hold water. Current Iraqi leaders such as Muqtada al-Sadr and Adnan Dulaimi are not less anti-Israel than Saddam, and it turns out he did not have WMD with which to attack Israel anyway. The Shiites of Iraq will certainly side with Hizbullah against Israel, which may actually mean that Israel is less secure now than before. Moreover, to have substantial turmoil on their doorstep just cannot be good for the Israelis.

You could argue that US petroleum corporations are now well placed to bid on Iraqi oil development. But what with doomsday cults planning a takeover of the petroleum facilities, it will be some time before it is safe for US corporations to operate in Iraq. China and Holland (Shell) are being looked upon favorably by the Iraqi government as investors.

And anyway, if the US government had thrown the $2 trillion and more that Iraq will end up costing at green energy development, both we and the earth would have been far better off. At a time when the US military is paying 60,000 Sunni Arab Iraqis $300 a month each not to fight us, it is pretty hard to justify letting the US working class sink, without any government help, into penury and homelessness in the face of the mortgage crisis and the recession. The Iraq War may or may not be good for Houston. It is certainly bad for Iraq and for everyone else.


Iraq is a mess for sure. Very mismanaged. We should have used an iron fist like we did in Japan after WWII (over 1,000,000 Japanese civilians died in the first year of US occupation mostly due to MacAurthor's draconian occupation policies). But we didn't and the rest is history.

But answer us this. Just what would Detroit use the money for? Make more gas-guzzling, crap vehicles the American public won't buy? And what would New Orleans do with it? They've already rebuilt the part of town that matters, the part that makes money. Would bring back the refuse that made that city one of America's two third world cities (the other being El Paso).

And just what is the government supposed to do for the "working class" again? They don't pay any taxes, so just how are the supposed to get any "relief"? Relief from what? They certainly aren't taxed very much.... (For you info, the top 1% of income earners pay 38% of the nation's taxes, the top 5% 57%, the top 10% pay 75% and the top 20% pay 85%. meaning the bottom 80% pays only 15% of the nation's tax burden...so there's just not much more the government can do that group.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Bill clintons NON REACTION to terror is the reason we were attacked on 9/11...

Bills famous words" We will track down these terrorists and kill them"...

...then he went and got a blowjob instead...

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 you retard.

Your president has made terrorism worse, with his war on iraq.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 you retard.

Your president has made terrorism worse, with his war on iraq.

No, he made sure we get to fight them over there and not in Myrtle Beach, Long Island, or Ft Lauderdale....

 

[Annie]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 you retard.

Your president has made terrorism worse, with his war on iraq.

I may have missed this, assumed you were American. Who's your President?

 

[rayboyusmc]

I think it is men like you that attack the administration out of pure hatred

No the real danger to our counry is people like you who can't let anyone say anything that you consider unpatriotic.

Your rants show no understanding of what this country was founded for.

Show me the logic statement that proves the war in Iraq is working because there wasn't a second attack. Remember the Saudis attacked US and we in turn attacked Iraq.

The laughing Christ is your avatar? Not the Christ I was taught about.

Let's just quit our non dialogue. You won't hear anything I say or even prove and I don't ever want to believe like you do.

I also respect the position of President. I have no respect for the person who is in the office right now. Of course you could attack Clinton when he was in and that was okay? Seems hypocritical.

Like I said 3900 dead real American Patriots and when Bush and Cheney leave office they will be able to get their blind trusts that profitted from this war.

WWJD?

 

[AllieBaba]

Hey, you're saying unpatriotic things right now. I don't see you getting shut down.

It's not the right but the left who consistently try to shut down anyone who doesn't agree with them, and cuts the legs out of the military whenever they get a chance.

You're so full of the crap you've eaten up at the knees of American-hating liberal journalists you can't see straight. Try thinking for yourself.