Supreme Court Upholds Arizona School Vouchers

[martybegan]

I'd just like to have the option to 'opt-out' of the Public School system and my taxes reduced accordingly.

By the other side of the coin what if I do not feel like paying for someone else's children to be educated in a public school? I can just as easily say everyone should pay for education on thier own dime, not mine.

The reality of a public education system is that it is a public good, like national defence, that serves to benefit everyone. You benefit by having a relatively educated work force that provides you goods and services you couldnt or dont want to do. Our public education provides most people with a basis to develop skill sets in whatever area. While I support states who decide to have school voucher programs for parents with kids in private schools, I dont support any idea that you could opt out of paying for public schools.

Also, most state constitutions mandate that states provide free education to school aged kids, essentially making education a right.

Thats a reasonable position to have, and I agree that at least a basic education for everyone is a worthy result of paying taxes. To be fair the whole voucher thing does cause me some concern, for the abuse potential of it due to schools not meeting certain standards.

 

[xsited1]

I'd just like to have the option to 'opt-out' of the Public School system and my taxes reduced accordingly.

By the other side of the coin what if I do not feel like paying for someone else's children to be educated in a public school? I can just as easily say everyone should pay for education on thier own dime, not mine.

The reality of a public education system is that it is a public good, like national defence, that serves to benefit everyone. You benefit by having a relatively educated work force that provides you goods and services you couldnt or dont want to do. Our public education provides most people with a basis to develop skill sets in whatever area. While I support states who decide to have school voucher programs for parents with kids in private schools, I dont support any idea that you could opt out of paying for public schools.

Also, most state constitutions mandate that states provide free education to school aged kids, essentially making education a right.

Too bad the US lags almost all industrialized nations and yet spends almost 3 times as much. But even if it was great, I still wouldn't call education a right and I wouldn't force the public to pay for it. I would support a requirement that parents must ensure their children are educated and failure to do so would be a crime.

 

[martybegan]

I'd just like to have the option to 'opt-out' of the Public School system and my taxes reduced accordingly.

By the other side of the coin what if I do not feel like paying for someone else's children to be educated in a public school? I can just as easily say everyone should pay for education on thier own dime, not mine.

The reality of a public education system is that it is a public good, like national defence, that serves to benefit everyone. You benefit by having a relatively educated work force that provides you goods and services you couldnt or dont want to do. Our public education provides most people with a basis to develop skill sets in whatever area. While I support states who decide to have school voucher programs for parents with kids in private schools, I dont support any idea that you could opt out of paying for public schools.

Also, most state constitutions mandate that states provide free education to school aged kids, essentially making education a right.

Too bad the US lags almost all industrialized nations and yet spends almost 3 times as much. But even if it was great, I still wouldn't call education a right and I wouldn't force the public to pay for it. I would support a requirement that parents must ensure their children are educated and failure to do so would be a crime.

While i can understand a position against public education, in my opinion, the benefits outweigh the costs (if done right.) Making non education a crime would result in even worse government intervention in a persons life, creating a whole new police type agency, and all the headaches that would include.

The problem is that public education has exploded past its intended point, becoming basically the prime function of local governments, with far too much overhead, and political clout.

 

[bodecea]

I'd just like to have the option to 'opt-out' of the Public School system and my taxes reduced accordingly.

By the other side of the coin what if I do not feel like paying for someone else's children to be educated in a public school? I can just as easily say everyone should pay for education on thier own dime, not mine.

The reality of a public education system is that it is a public good, like national defence, that serves to benefit everyone. You benefit by having a relatively educated work force that provides you goods and services you couldnt or dont want to do. Our public education provides most people with a basis to develop skill sets in whatever area. While I support states who decide to have school voucher programs for parents with kids in private schools, I dont support any idea that you could opt out of paying for public schools.

Also, most state constitutions mandate that states provide free education to school aged kids, essentially making education a right.

Too bad the US lags almost all industrialized nations and yet spends almost 3 times as much. But even if it was great, I still wouldn't call education a right and I wouldn't force the public to pay for it. I would support a requirement that parents must ensure their children are educated and failure to do so would be a crime.

Says who?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Too bad the US lags almost all industrialized nations and yet spends almost 3 times as much. But even if it was great, I still wouldn't call education a right and I wouldn't force the public to pay for it. I would support a requirement that parents must ensure their children are educated and failure to do so would be a crime.

Says who?

The numbers. Where have you been? This isn't new or shocking news.

Letter: U.S. education achievement lags despite big spending | oanow.com

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I'm leery of school voucher programs because it can give the government more control over private schools. Furthermore (and most importantly to me), I don't want the government to be able to tell a private school who they accept as students.

This is a serious concern. I know that at my Church we've declined State and Federal money when it comes to schooling because it comes with some serious strings attached. If I were a parochial school in Arizona, I'd be very very leary of this.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

While i can understand a position against public education, in my opinion, the benefits outweigh the costs (if done right.) Making non education a crime would result in even worse government intervention in a persons life, creating a whole new police type agency, and all the headaches that would include.

The problem is that public education has exploded past its intended point, becoming basically the prime function of local governments, with far too much overhead, and political clout.

I basically agree with all of this. A community without a means to provide an education to the poor would deteriorate into something terrible fairly quick. Eductation is the surest means of class advancement in America. I should know, I grew up pretty poor and thanks to an opportunity for an education, I now make enough money to ensure my son and daughter will have a better life than I had.

Even with the low quality of the public schools, it's still worth my tax money to make sure they exsist. I'd just like to see them actually work.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

what types of schools do you think government money will fund?

parochial schools...

The dissenting opinion goes into how this is essentially "THE FORMULA" for how to set up a preferred religion in a state. Give tax breaks for services offered by the Church of choice, selectively enforce regulations to strip those tax breaks from services offered by differing Churches, and viola! State supported religion.

That's always been a troubling part of the voucher debate. I personally am in favor of vouchers, as we're pretty much doing that at the college level anyways. I just don't like that aspect. And I can't understand why a Church would want to welcome in the tax breaks. Seems you're opening the door to a whole world of trouble.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

yeah... screw the first amendment.

how do you see this as a 'screwing' of the first amendment?

what types of schools do you think government money will fund?

parochial schools...

thanks, but i prefer not paying for people's indoctrination of their children and i don't want them trying to indoctrinate mine. I particularly don't want them sucking the money out of the public school system to enrich parochial schools.

everyone should pay for religion on their own dime... not mine.

it's that whole state-supported religion thing.

Well except for the fact that most private schools, even ones run by religious groups do not, in fact teach religion. But hey you keep claiming otherwise.

 

[Dr.House]

certainly an interesting decision...

doesn't seem to hold with precedent and the court seems to be making a distinction without a real difference but i'm sure there will be some other means of challenge to the program.

of course it doesn't hold with precedent. the rightwingnut hacks of the scalia wing of the court don't understand what precedent is.

they're allergic to stare decisis.

and no... there's no way to challenge that other than by the local legislature acting.


which means the rabid religious right got one.

they must be so proud. now they can teach creationism on the taxpayer dime.

Wouldn't it be great to cherry-pick where our tax dollars go?

I'd love to defund some leftist programs....

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I'm leery of school voucher programs because it can give the government more control over private schools.

Same here.

I am not sure you 2.............how do you see that playing out? The choice of the parent, other than the size of the tax credit is in no way indicative of where and even if the parents choose to exercise the option. *shrugs*.....I don't see any control to be had, as to the school, which really is the last partner in this as an issue..

The simplest thing to do would be to allow for school choice and let parents send their kids to any public school they want. Let the state allocate a certain amount of education spending per student and have that money follow the student to the school of their choice. This would encourage competition among the various schools to increase education standards and it keeps the government out of the private schools. It would also allow many poor inner city kids to get out of dangerous inner city schools.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Same here.

I am not sure you 2.............how do you see that playing out? The choice of the parent, other than the size of the tax credit is in no way indicative of where and even if the parents choose to exercise the option. *shrugs*.....I don't see any control to be had, as to the school, which really is the last partner in this as an issue..

The simplest thing to do would be to allow for school choice and let parents send their kids to any public school they want. Let the state allocate a certain amount of education spending per student and have that money follow the student to the school of their choice. This would encourage competition among the various schools to increase education standards and it keeps the government out of the private schools. It would also allow many poor inner city kids to get out of dangerous inner city schools.

I could get behind that. The biggest issue is busing, but you could make that part of the equation. Choose a school outside your district and you're responsible for transportation. Done.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Supreme Court has ruled in favor of an Arizona school voucher program that critics say improperly directs taxpayer funds to religious schools.

Monday's 5-4 ruling expands long-standing court precedents that citizens don't have standing to legally challenge taxes they don't like simply because they're taxpayers.

The minority on the court maintained that since the case involved claims of a violation of religious freedoms, that the Arizona plaintiffs didn't need to demonstrate a specific personal injury.

The decision, written by Justice Anthony Kennedy and joined by the court's more conservative members, preserves Arizona's school voucher program that is funded by tax credits offered to state taxpayers. Most of the students who use the voucher money attend religious schools.

Read more: Supreme Court Upholds Arizona School Vouchers - FoxNews.com

Well I guess that settles that argument eh?

Are you drunk?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm leery of school voucher programs because it can give the government more control over private schools.

Same here.

I am not sure you 2.............how do you see that playing out? The choice of the parent, other than the size of the tax credit is in no way indicative of where and even if the parents choose to exercise the option. *shrugs*.....I don't see any control to be had, as to the school, which really is the last partner in this as an issue..

The GI Bill originally passed to give returning WWII vets the opportunity to get an education. The government soon attached strings to the money, and any college that accepted a GI Bill had to meet certain minimum requirements, and then they had to offer certain classes, and now they have to jump through so many hoops that they employ people who do nothing but make sure they fill out the right forms. Government money always comes with strings attached.