Supreme Court Issue: Can The Government MANDATE the purchase of a product?

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by AVG-JOE, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. AVG-JOE
    Offline

    AVG-JOE American Mutt Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    22,890
    Thanks Received:
    4,886
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Location:
    Your Imagination
    Ratings:
    +7,022
    If the Supreme Court upholds the argument that the government does NOT have the right to mandate the purchase of health insurance, can I use that as precedent in my case against the government mandating that I buy and use clothing when out in public?

    :eusa_think:


    All About Nude Hiking | Open Journey
     
  2. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,576
    Thanks Received:
    8,171
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,220
    You have posed the question wrong. The Question is whether the Federal Government can mandate the purchase of a product.

    And that, of course, presumes that the Supreme Court will even take up the issue. They could simply let the lower court ruling stand and say nothing.
     
  3. Mr. Shaman
    Offline

    Mr. Shaman Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    23,892
    Thanks Received:
    817
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +819
    I think we're gonna have to find-out if there are any Judges heavily-invested (directly....or, thru a Lobbyist), first.

    Sometimes, they make mistakes. :rolleyes:

    HERE
     
  4. MikeK
    Offline

    MikeK Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    13,191
    Thanks Received:
    1,985
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Location:
    Brick, New Jersey
    Ratings:
    +3,727
    There is some very compelling precedent. The Militia Act of 1792 required every "able bodied male" to serve in the state militia and presented a list of firearms, one of which he was required to report to duty with. By effect, this would require said males to buy or otherwise acquire a gun.

    Also, the Founding Fathers mandated that all merchant seamen purchase health insurance.
    Government Health Care Was Championed By The Founding Fathers | Lake Minnetonka Liberty

    These are two very strong hooks to hang Obama's bill on.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. Avorysuds
    Offline

    Avorysuds Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    13,834
    Thanks Received:
    1,655
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Eugene Oregon
    Ratings:
    +2,141
    Show me where there is a mandate to buy cloths...

    Yeah, you failed...
     
  6. kyzr
    Offline

    kyzr Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,447
    Thanks Received:
    450
    Trophy Points:
    130
    Ratings:
    +630
    If the majority of states opt out of Obamacare and the courts say its unconstitutional, and the USSC says its illegal, which they will, and Congress doesn't fund it. It won't happen.

    Lets all just look for a certain birth certificate.....
     
  7. Soggy in NOLA
    Offline

    Soggy in NOLA Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2009
    Messages:
    32,951
    Thanks Received:
    4,335
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +11,667
    Ok, then why didn't they? Oh, that's right they went the taxation route.

    Nice try.
     
  8. rdean
    Offline

    rdean rddean

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    60,220
    Thanks Received:
    6,907
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    chicago
    Ratings:
    +15,064
    It's all about commerce. We currently pay between 40 billion and 50 billion a year for the health care of people who have no insurance by paying rising income and property taxes. It's called "government emergency health care", but it's really "soak the middle class".

    Get it? We pay between 40 and 50 billion. For a "service".

    The judge said there is no commerce.

    Commerce is the exchange of goods and services from the point of production to the point of consumption to satisfy human wants. It comprises the trading of something of economic value such as goods, services, information, or money between two or more entities.

    Commerce: Definition from Answers.com

    Could it be any more "simple"?

    Republicans apparently have the answer. Close emergency rooms and let the fuckers die. If they aren't rich, who care if they live or die?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
  9. bucs90
    Offline

    bucs90 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    26,548
    Thanks Received:
    5,995
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +19,210
    Hmm. I actually find that argument interesting. It's true. The government will arrest you if you go into public without clothing. Sure, parents buy us clothing up to age 18, but, they aren't required to do that either. Thats an interesting case.

    My belief, however, is that no, government cannot make us buy a product from a private company.

    Lets use healthcare as the example. And how it violates the 4th and 5th amendment, in my opinion, as a former cop.

    4th Amendment protects us from unlawful search and seizure. Only applies to governments or agents acting on behalf of government (contractors). If I do not want health insurance, but am mandated to have it, then I am then required by government to go through a medical screening against my own will, by a doctor acting on behalf of the government, or directly for the government. That is a "search" of my person, without warrant or probable cause of a crime, thus, illegal. Plain and simple. You can't search my body without a warrant or probable cause that I committed a crime. And no insurance will cover me without first doing a screening.

    Second, the 5th. I have the right to remain silent. It is impossible to purchase health insurance without speaking. Thus, if I decide to remain silent for the remainder of my life, I will not be able to purchase health insurance. By practicing my 5th amendment right, I would violate Obamacare. It is unlawful.

    But none of this matters now. Florida federal judge has ruled on it. Obamacare is illegal.
     
  10. gekaap
    Offline

    gekaap BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,795
    Thanks Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +135
    I don't think that the militia issue is a good comparison. The constitution gives explicit authority to Congress "to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia." In that way, Congress had explicit authority to require all able bodied men be part of the militia, and that those men obtain weapons toward that end. (Note, however, that the SD bill being discussed elsewhere would not fall under similar effect because it does not pertain to arming the militia, it pertains to arming all ordinary citizens). The challenges against the health care bill are based on the position that the constitution does not explicitly grant the power to require people to obtain health insurance. So one in a question of explicit power, and the other a question of implicit power.
     

Share This Page