Support for Unions Plunges to All Time Low

[noose4]

And it's not really a shock that the number of people in unions has declined as business interests have been successful at pushing laws to de facto ban unions in most state.

and its no surprise that as unions decline the working class drifts closer to being poor rather than middle class.

Actually, that should increase unionization. The other major driver is the shift from blue-collar to white-collar.

it should but many have bought into the propaganda put forth by the right.

 

[noose4]

I can't speak for other countries but in the US Labor unions ceased to have anything to do with helping the working man nearly fifty years ago. Unions began as a means to level the playing field between the individual laborer and management, now they hold the power and that has proven to be as bad for the country as the other way around. This is especially so now that 80 odd percent of current union members are government workers. And a good 20% of those are in what in the private sector would be white collar jobs.

Unions in the US now are simply shills for ever larger government because most of their members benefit from ever larger government unlike the majority of Americans who have to pay for said government not only in terms of cash but in terms of increasing government intervention in how they lead their lives day to day.

as a union member(non government worker) i would agree with this except for the fact that i make $10 an hour more than my non union counterparts in the same field with full medical coverage a 401k and a pension vacation with pay, sick leave, double time after nine hours of time and a half overtime, free education programs, etc.

 

[Sinatra]

I can't speak for other countries but in the US Labor unions ceased to have anything to do with helping the working man nearly fifty years ago. Unions began as a means to level the playing field between the individual laborer and management, now they hold the power and that has proven to be as bad for the country as the other way around. This is especially so now that 80 odd percent of current union members are government workers. And a good 20% of those are in what in the private sector would be white collar jobs.

Unions in the US now are simply shills for ever larger government because most of their members benefit from ever larger government unlike the majority of Americans who have to pay for said government not only in terms of cash but in terms of increasing government intervention in how they lead their lives day to day.

as a union member(non government worker) i would agree with this except for the fact that i make $10 an hour more than my non union counterparts in the same field with full medical coverage a 401k and a pension vacation with pay, sick leave, double time after nine hours of time and a half overtime, free education programs, etc.

And yet these same unions are part of the cause of jobs going overseas - and factories shutting down, as well as contributing to the boom and bust cycle of business.

So while you may have benefited personally - perhaps, many more are suffering because of these same unions. Unions continue to fade - and while this administration is fighting to keep them alive, their demise is inevitable...

 

[garyd]

Yet your dues money goes to politicians who are desperately trying to kill the goose that lays those lovely golden eggs that you love so well.

 

[noose4]

I can't speak for other countries but in the US Labor unions ceased to have anything to do with helping the working man nearly fifty years ago. Unions began as a means to level the playing field between the individual laborer and management, now they hold the power and that has proven to be as bad for the country as the other way around. This is especially so now that 80 odd percent of current union members are government workers. And a good 20% of those are in what in the private sector would be white collar jobs.

Unions in the US now are simply shills for ever larger government because most of their members benefit from ever larger government unlike the majority of Americans who have to pay for said government not only in terms of cash but in terms of increasing government intervention in how they lead their lives day to day.

as a union member(non government worker) i would agree with this except for the fact that i make $10 an hour more than my non union counterparts in the same field with full medical coverage a 401k and a pension vacation with pay, sick leave, double time after nine hours of time and a half overtime, free education programs, etc.

And yet these same unions are part of the cause of jobs going overseas - and factories shutting down, as well as contributing to the boom and bust cycle of business.

So while you may have benefited personally - perhaps, many more are suffering because of these same unions. Unions continue to fade - and while this administration is fighting to keep them alive, their demise is inevitable...

so you side with the companies that would turn u.s. workers into the equivalent of third world slave shop workers over those who want u.s. workers to actually be able to afford a decent life? jobs go overseas because even non union workers will not accept the pay that third world workers accept.

 

[garyd]

Nope, he is merely informing you that the reality is that any company competing in the world market will quickly find it damn hard to make a profit if they have to pay you ten time what their competition pay their workers, plus deal with all the various federal, state, and local rules and regulations, not a few of which are mutually incompatible and some of which may be all but impossible at current technological capabilities.

 

[Polk]

Nope, he is merely informing you that the reality is that any company competing in the world market will quickly find it damn hard to make a profit if they have to pay you ten time what their competition pay their workers, plus deal with all the various federal, state, and local rules and regulations, not a few of which are mutually incompatible and some of which may be all but impossible at current technological capabilities.

That makes it sound like labor unions are really powerful in this country. They aren't. The AFL-CIO wishes it had the political influence of TUC, RENGO, or the DGB.

 

[MaggieMae]

The American public knows this loud loud loud scream for the "public option" is coming from the unions. They, the unions simply want to shift the cost of their healthcare onto the backs of the American taxpayer. I don't like it.

Ironically those "public" Americans who represent the naysayers aren't nearly as informed of the fact that DEFEAT of the public option has been financed entirely by 3,300 health care lobbyists, six lobbyists for each of the 535 members of the House and Senate, and three times the number of people registered to lobby on defense, thus far spending in excess of $300 million.

Six Lobbyists Per Lawmaker Work on Health Overhaul (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

 

[MaggieMae]

On Labor Day, support for unions plunges to all-time low
By: Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent
09/07/09 8:42 AM EDT


This Labor Day brings word of a new Gallup poll showing that American public support for labor unions has taken a sharp dive in the last year and is at its lowest point since Gallup began polling in 1936.

In response to the question, "Do you approve or disapprove of labor unions?" just 48 percent of respondents said they approve, while 45 percent said they disapprove. That's a steep fall from August 2008, when the numbers were 59 percent approve, 31 percent disapprove, and it's the first time approval of unions has ever fallen below 50 percent.

Broken down by political party, Gallup found support for unions has fallen the most among critically-important independent voters. Last year, 63 percent of independents said they approved of unions. Now, just 44 percent say the same thing. Among Republicans, 29 percent support unions, versus 38 percent last year. Only among Democrats does union support remain strong, although it, too, has fallen: 66 percent support today, versus 72 percent support a year ago.

On Labor Day, support for unions plunges to all-time low | Washington Examiner

Well, it isn't surprising. Democrats still support them, and Republicans have been trained with slogans to hate them. Union jobs are only about 7 percent of our companies now, once at around 40 percent at peak. They've used globalization to attack them, as well as general "outsourcing" (such an innocuous word for destroying American standard's of living) of jobs, another word for globalization. Numerous trade agreements continue to plauge unions, as well as America's employment picture. There is an undenyable link between unfettered globalization, and our 18 percent unemployment rate, yet no talk on the corporate media of it.

And as far as opinion, people are fraking sheep. With the whole of the corporate media attacking unions, and the idea of unions, selling them false ideas about the effects of unions, it isn't surprising that after 30 years of this on the media, the media that calls itself liberal, people have followed the corporations over the cliff, and started hating them.

But the truth is, it wasn't the unions that sold us out. It is the politicians on both sides of the aisle, who've sold out American labor, and created this rush to the bottom. They are bought and paid for by the very rich, and corporate contributions, and they do the bidding of corporate citizens, and ignore what has been happening to real American citizens. With no real opposition party, no real party with any concern for American labor (thanks Bill Clinton, for f*cking nothing), Democrats continue to erode their own support.

Even in the health care debate, with 60 democrats, they demonstrate they are not on the sides of the people, who by totals as great as 80 percent, want a public option, and good health care reform. When Democrats gain power, it's even more apparent how they are all owned by corporations, and Obama has inherited the problem of an increasingly oligarchic, plutocratic, and inequal country.

Some valid points - but it is equally valid to point out that unions have themselves become very big business. There is no real distinction between Big Business and Unions - they are essentially one and the same.

And like some in big business, unions have become corrupted and negligent in protecting the American worker. Legacy costs of the car Big Three have near crippled the car companies - and make no mistake, the bailout of the car companies was just as much about bailing out the unions as anything. If those companies had restructured on their own, the unions might very well have disolved - and that trend would have spread throughout the country. They are an absolete model whose viability diminished with each labor law passage during the last century. Now they are a lobbying ponzi scheme based upon the backs and union dues of the workers they pretend to protect.

More Americans grow weary of the radicalism within the unions, and this most recent polling shows that....

Unions became obsolete models when manufacturing jobs by the thousands began going overseas, factories were shuttered, and cheap labor became the norm. Membership in unions became the only way blue collar workers could earn a decent living but there just weren't enough anymore. So they became the bad guys.

 

[garyd]

Close but no cigar.

 

[MaggieMae]

Some valid points - but it is equally valid to point out that unions have themselves become very big business. There is no real distinction between Big Business and Unions - they are essentially one and the same.

And like some in big business, unions have become corrupted and negligent in protecting the American worker. Legacy costs of the car Big Three have near crippled the car companies - and make no mistake, the bailout of the car companies was just as much about bailing out the unions as anything. If those companies had restructured on their own, the unions might very well have disolved - and that trend would have spread throughout the country. They are an absolete model whose viability diminished with each labor law passage during the last century. Now they are a lobbying ponzi scheme based upon the backs and union dues of the workers they pretend to protect.

More Americans grow weary of the radicalism within the unions, and this most recent polling shows that....

In part I agree with your points. Unions in the US are without ideology, very largely. That goes back to Gompers. Unions in the US have been and still are involved in a symbiotic relationship with business and with capitalism. They support business and they support capitalism. It's against their own interests to ruin a company, that's down to other factors. Incompetent management, poor economic conditions are perhaps two of those factors, greedy unions aren't. The concept of “clawback” isn't unknown in other countries that hav collective bargaining on a company basis but in the US it has become an art form. Unions, cooperating to ensure the health of a company and therefore the jobs of its members and of course its own income stream from dues, will bargain away previous gains.

Unions in the US were probably the first to have to combat the human resources movement which was aimed at removing unions from companies (but without thugs and guns). It appears that the human resources movement has been successful, no doubt aided by reactionary propaganda machines in the mainstream media – corporate owned of course – which demonised unions. There has been corruption in the US labour movement, sadly, but there's corruption in all aspects of public life so it's not unique to unions. Unions in the US can reinvent themselves but it would take a huge effort by vested interests who are not likely to kick themselves out of good jobs to repair unionism.

The problem with US unions is radicalism yes, but more a lack of it rather than its existence.

Not sure what radicalism you are referencing - the destruction of capitalism?

If so, I disagree with you entirely - you are simply being silly.

Unions are radicalized today - spending money to push social agendas as much as actual worker issues. The mainstream union body funds more radical branches, and the entire entity is one big nasty mess these days.

There is a forceful anti-liberal backlash brewing right now - and unions are going to suffer from that backlash - the poll indicates they already are...

So if unions push social agendas, doesn't the US Chamber of Commerce push corporate agendas? Are they both evil? No, neither is. There simply is a balance which is after all, the American way.

 

[MaggieMae]

Would that be the knee-cap czar?

'Industrial czar'

This genius will now make it possible for the workers of the American world to unite in a worker's paradise where the USA will produce all kinds of goods that people will be thrilled to over pay for.

If they money or jobs to buy anything that is.

The audience response to the "Industrial Czar" announcement was laughably tepid. Even the union folks were thinking "WTF" on that one.

Well done there Obama...

Just goes to show he probably ignores the silly politics of the rabid right. Hell, if they didn't have some stupid thing to whine about to propel into the 24/7 news cycle, the Party of No would be out of business. The rest of the world laughs.

 

[Sinatra]

'Industrial czar'

This genius will now make it possible for the workers of the American world to unite in a worker's paradise where the USA will produce all kinds of goods that people will be thrilled to over pay for.

If they money or jobs to buy anything that is.

The audience response to the "Industrial Czar" announcement was laughably tepid. Even the union folks were thinking "WTF" on that one.

Well done there Obama...

Just goes to show he probably ignores the silly politics of the rabid right. Hell, if they didn't have some stupid thing to whine about to propel into the 24/7 news cycle, the Party of No would be out of business. The rest of the world laughs.

It goes to show how out of touch this president is - even amidst an audience of supporters...

 

[garyd]

Hell I don't think anyone in this is evil unlike a lot of leftist here and more than a few on the right. Nor do I think their are very many dictionary conservative in this country. I don't think anyone here thinks much of the status quo at the moment.

I do think however that there are very real differences of opinion about how best to proceed to resolve the problems facing us at the moment. I do not believe that those who disagree with me are necessarily evil or stupid (though some them clearly are stupid) I just think they are wrong.

 

[MaggieMae]

Would that be the knee-cap czar?

'Industrial czar'

This genius will now make it possible for the workers of the American world to unite in a worker's paradise where the USA will produce all kinds of goods that people will be thrilled to over pay for.

If they money or jobs to buy anything that is.

Ah...I suppose that he/she will be in favor of that new legislation? What is it called? Open card or something like that.

I see lots of blog opinions and tracking articles for the union voting bill, but I see no polling information. Care to share?

 

[MaggieMae]

Ah...I suppose that he/she will be in favor of that new legislation? What is it called? Open card or something like that.

I only saw a few minutes of the speech, which is all I can take of that huckster these days.

He was in full campaign mode, no jacket or tie, 'man of the people' pushing his health care come hell or high water, and giving the Union crowd what they want, a leader to take them out of the wilderness.

The man is more tone deaf to the mood of the nation then Bush ever was, he belives all he has to do is go back on the campaign trail and all will be rosey again.

He was all fired up before a friendly audience, just as BOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH used to be when he was out promoting his stay the course crap to an all-military audience. But I can understand why you could only take a few minutes if you hate Obama in the first place; many couldn't stand to listen to George W. Bush mangle the English language either.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ah...I suppose that he/she will be in favor of that new legislation? What is it called? Open card or something like that.

I only saw a few minutes of the speech, which is all I can take of that huckster these days.

He was in full campaign mode, no jacket or tie, 'man of the people' pushing his health care come hell or high water, and giving the Union crowd what they want, a leader to take them out of the wilderness.

The man is more tone deaf to the mood of the nation then Bush ever was, he belives all he has to do is go back on the campaign trail and all will be rosey again.

I agree.

The problem is, very few are calling him on it.

Oh please. Immediately after his speech, the pundits were all saying how he was back in campaign mode. So? He's campaigning--for health care reform. Duh...

 

[Sinatra]

Hell I don't think anyone in this is evil unlike a lot of leftist here and more than a few on the right. Nor do I think their are very many dictionary conservative in this country. I don't think anyone here thinks much of the status quo at the moment.

I do think however that there are very real differences of opinion about how best to proceed to resolve the problems facing us at the moment. I do not believe that those who disagree with me are necessarily evil or stupid (though some them clearly are stupid) I just think they are wrong.

Again, well said.

 

[MaggieMae]

I only saw a few minutes of the speech, which is all I can take of that huckster these days.

He was in full campaign mode, no jacket or tie, 'man of the people' pushing his health care come hell or high water, and giving the Union crowd what they want, a leader to take them out of the wilderness.

The man is more tone deaf to the mood of the nation then Bush ever was, he belives all he has to do is go back on the campaign trail and all will be rosey again.

Did you notice his blue collar shirt??

Oh these silly Democrats...

I forgot to mention that subtle bit of propaganda.

I just love to watch this silly sniping by the little children. If Obama HAD worn a "blue shirt," you idiots would have been making fun of that. OH LOOKIE--HE EVEN WORE A 'BLUE' SHIRT- )

I have yet to see anyone comment on what he actually SAID, which was, of course emphasis on how the middle class and blue collar workers have been left in the dust. [Idiots...]

 

[MaggieMae]

i have no tears for unionists, buch of lazy good for nothing assholes who make more than the job is worth and do nothing but run comapnies out of business. weep for the $75 an hour GM worker, lolz..fuck them i hope they all lose their fucking jobs

Ouch!

How about those legacy costs - allowing people to collect a paycheck and NOT work?

The unions are crippling the very companies that provide the jobs that in turn provide the union dues that make the unions big business...

Excuse me? Businesses are going under at a rapid rate today because of the financial crisis brought about by greedy Wall Street investors. Unions have suffered under that weight as well.