CDZ Support for Gay Marriage grows

[DustyInfinity]

Be pretend married. I just roll my eyes

How does pretend marriage work out for you?

ZING!

excellent!

You have to admit they did not have to torpedo traditional marriage to get equal footing under the law. It was a media driven power play. Republicans were asking for it though by being such A holes on civil unions.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Gay Marriage Around the World

Support for equality grows every year with a total of 30 countries legalising it so far. The number increases every year and the countries that are hostile seem to be places which are ruled by religious extremists .

This is backed up by polling which shows support at around 2 thirds in favour in Australia,US and up to 80% plus in Sweden.

I cant see this trend being reversed and can see the majority of nations having similar laws in the next decade.

In the spirit of all men being created equal should the US and EU countries take steps to encourage this ? What would you like to see ?

For myself I think it can be difficult to overturn prejudice and I dont really know whether the stick or carrot is the best way forward.

It is my opinion that America was founded as a very special place and it can only be understood by reading this sermon that was delivered in 1630 by John Winthrop and quoted all the way up to the time of JFK and Ronald Reagan:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

What we base our decision on is not dependent upon what other countries do or do not do. When America observed their founding principles and remained true to the goals and objectives upon which we were founded - and the direction the colonists began in, this nation was blessed above all the nations of the earth. We should base our decisions upon what is right and what is wrong.

For the Christian, homosexuality is a sin. In its proper perspective, however, no sin is greater than another, so it is immoral to single out people based upon their homosexuality and treat them any different than any other sinner. We tolerate people who abuse alcohol, destroy their bodies with cigarettes and drugs; we even tolerate inter-racial marriage. People who eat like pigs, adorn their bodies with body piercings and have tattoos are all committing sins. So, the gay people get no special condemnation for their sins and Christians should not treat the gay any different for their sins.

As a pragmatist, I know that the word prejudice is when you hold a belief without thought, knowledge, or reason. So, I have given this much thought outside my own belief as a Christian.

America is headed toward socialism. We all throw money into a big pot now and expect the government to hand us a Social Security check when we get old enough. That system is only viable when people put money into that pot. If you're gay, you do not reproduce. If you don't reproduce, there is no working generation to pay into the pot so that Social Security remains viable. That is worth thinking over.

Before you say to me that it is not your responsibility to reproduce for your fellow Americans benefit, then I would counter as to why we are headed toward socialism then. Why should your fellow man put money into any pot, by force, for the benefit of others when it offends his moral beliefs? If I put money into insurance premiums and that money is paid toward sex change operations or paying for diseases transmitted via sexual intercourse, am I not being forced to subsidize a practice that is morally unacceptable? I'm not claiming to be right on this, just showing a couple of instances where it is not cut and dried. How far we go in any "acceptance" of gay marriage or a gay lifestyle deserves asking really uncomfortable questions.

Taxation is not a pick and mix. We vote for parties with different spending plans and choose the one most aligned to our values. If you object to money being spent on birth control or sex changes then vote for the party that is against that. If there isnt a party then set one up.

In terms of your socialism thoughts it puzzles me. Insurance schemes are how you deal with some of lifes misfortunes. Socialism is how we deal with some of that. We are all going to get old or sick. We pay into a fund to cover us from those eventualities.The UK welfare state protects us all by virtue of its size and makes us a civilised and caring society. The NHS protects us all and has never caused anybody to go bankrupt.

Gay folk arent asking for any handouts. They just want the equality they are entitled to.

Therein is the root of socialism. Nobody is entitled to any portion of what I have earned.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Gay Marriage Around the World

Support for equality grows every year with a total of 30 countries legalising it so far. The number increases every year and the countries that are hostile seem to be places which are ruled by religious extremists .

This is backed up by polling which shows support at around 2 thirds in favour in Australia,US and up to 80% plus in Sweden.

I cant see this trend being reversed and can see the majority of nations having similar laws in the next decade.

In the spirit of all men being created equal should the US and EU countries take steps to encourage this ? What would you like to see ?

For myself I think it can be difficult to overturn prejudice and I dont really know whether the stick or carrot is the best way forward.

It is my opinion that America was founded as a very special place and it can only be understood by reading this sermon that was delivered in 1630 by John Winthrop and quoted all the way up to the time of JFK and Ronald Reagan:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

What we base our decision on is not dependent upon what other countries do or do not do. When America observed their founding principles and remained true to the goals and objectives upon which we were founded - and the direction the colonists began in, this nation was blessed above all the nations of the earth. We should base our decisions upon what is right and what is wrong.

For the Christian, homosexuality is a sin. In its proper perspective, however, no sin is greater than another, so it is immoral to single out people based upon their homosexuality and treat them any different than any other sinner. We tolerate people who abuse alcohol, destroy their bodies with cigarettes and drugs; we even tolerate inter-racial marriage. People who eat like pigs, adorn their bodies with body piercings and have tattoos are all committing sins. So, the gay people get no special condemnation for their sins and Christians should not treat the gay any different for their sins.

As a pragmatist, I know that the word prejudice is when you hold a belief without thought, knowledge, or reason. So, I have given this much thought outside my own belief as a Christian.

America is headed toward socialism. We all throw money into a big pot now and expect the government to hand us a Social Security check when we get old enough. That system is only viable when people put money into that pot. If you're gay, you do not reproduce. If you don't reproduce, there is no working generation to pay into the pot so that Social Security remains viable. That is worth thinking over.

Before you say to me that it is not your responsibility to reproduce for your fellow Americans benefit, then I would counter as to why we are headed toward socialism then. Why should your fellow man put money into any pot, by force, for the benefit of others when it offends his moral beliefs? If I put money into insurance premiums and that money is paid toward sex change operations or paying for diseases transmitted via sexual intercourse, am I not being forced to subsidize a practice that is morally unacceptable? I'm not claiming to be right on this, just showing a couple of instances where it is not cut and dried. How far we go in any "acceptance" of gay marriage or a gay lifestyle deserves asking really uncomfortable questions.

Taxation is not a pick and mix. We vote for parties with different spending plans and choose the one most aligned to our values. If you object to money being spent on birth control or sex changes then vote for the party that is against that. If there isnt a party then set one up.

In terms of your socialism thoughts it puzzles me. Insurance schemes are how you deal with some of lifes misfortunes. Socialism is how we deal with some of that. We are all going to get old or sick. We pay into a fund to cover us from those eventualities.The UK welfare state protects us all by virtue of its size and makes us a civilised and caring society. The NHS protects us all and has never caused anybody to go bankrupt.

Gay folk arent asking for any handouts. They just want the equality they are entitled to.

Therein is the root of socialism. Nobody is entitled to any portion of what I have earned.

Well if you enjoy the benefits of an advanced society then that is nonsense.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Gay Marriage Around the World

Support for equality grows every year with a total of 30 countries legalising it so far. The number increases every year and the countries that are hostile seem to be places which are ruled by religious extremists .

This is backed up by polling which shows support at around 2 thirds in favour in Australia,US and up to 80% plus in Sweden.

I cant see this trend being reversed and can see the majority of nations having similar laws in the next decade.

In the spirit of all men being created equal should the US and EU countries take steps to encourage this ? What would you like to see ?

For myself I think it can be difficult to overturn prejudice and I dont really know whether the stick or carrot is the best way forward.

It is my opinion that America was founded as a very special place and it can only be understood by reading this sermon that was delivered in 1630 by John Winthrop and quoted all the way up to the time of JFK and Ronald Reagan:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

What we base our decision on is not dependent upon what other countries do or do not do. When America observed their founding principles and remained true to the goals and objectives upon which we were founded - and the direction the colonists began in, this nation was blessed above all the nations of the earth. We should base our decisions upon what is right and what is wrong.

For the Christian, homosexuality is a sin. In its proper perspective, however, no sin is greater than another, so it is immoral to single out people based upon their homosexuality and treat them any different than any other sinner. We tolerate people who abuse alcohol, destroy their bodies with cigarettes and drugs; we even tolerate inter-racial marriage. People who eat like pigs, adorn their bodies with body piercings and have tattoos are all committing sins. So, the gay people get no special condemnation for their sins and Christians should not treat the gay any different for their sins.

As a pragmatist, I know that the word prejudice is when you hold a belief without thought, knowledge, or reason. So, I have given this much thought outside my own belief as a Christian.

America is headed toward socialism. We all throw money into a big pot now and expect the government to hand us a Social Security check when we get old enough. That system is only viable when people put money into that pot. If you're gay, you do not reproduce. If you don't reproduce, there is no working generation to pay into the pot so that Social Security remains viable. That is worth thinking over.

Before you say to me that it is not your responsibility to reproduce for your fellow Americans benefit, then I would counter as to why we are headed toward socialism then. Why should your fellow man put money into any pot, by force, for the benefit of others when it offends his moral beliefs? If I put money into insurance premiums and that money is paid toward sex change operations or paying for diseases transmitted via sexual intercourse, am I not being forced to subsidize a practice that is morally unacceptable? I'm not claiming to be right on this, just showing a couple of instances where it is not cut and dried. How far we go in any "acceptance" of gay marriage or a gay lifestyle deserves asking really uncomfortable questions.

Taxation is not a pick and mix. We vote for parties with different spending plans and choose the one most aligned to our values. If you object to money being spent on birth control or sex changes then vote for the party that is against that. If there isnt a party then set one up.

In terms of your socialism thoughts it puzzles me. Insurance schemes are how you deal with some of lifes misfortunes. Socialism is how we deal with some of that. We are all going to get old or sick. We pay into a fund to cover us from those eventualities.The UK welfare state protects us all by virtue of its size and makes us a civilised and caring society. The NHS protects us all and has never caused anybody to go bankrupt.

Gay folk arent asking for any handouts. They just want the equality they are entitled to.

Therein is the root of socialism. Nobody is entitled to any portion of what I have earned.

Well if you enjoy the benefits of an advanced society then that is nonsense.

Sometimes what you pay is more than if you had reached into your pocket and paid as you go.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Gay Marriage Around the World

Support for equality grows every year with a total of 30 countries legalising it so far. The number increases every year and the countries that are hostile seem to be places which are ruled by religious extremists .

This is backed up by polling which shows support at around 2 thirds in favour in Australia,US and up to 80% plus in Sweden.

I cant see this trend being reversed and can see the majority of nations having similar laws in the next decade.

In the spirit of all men being created equal should the US and EU countries take steps to encourage this ? What would you like to see ?

For myself I think it can be difficult to overturn prejudice and I dont really know whether the stick or carrot is the best way forward.

It is my opinion that America was founded as a very special place and it can only be understood by reading this sermon that was delivered in 1630 by John Winthrop and quoted all the way up to the time of JFK and Ronald Reagan:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

What we base our decision on is not dependent upon what other countries do or do not do. When America observed their founding principles and remained true to the goals and objectives upon which we were founded - and the direction the colonists began in, this nation was blessed above all the nations of the earth. We should base our decisions upon what is right and what is wrong.

For the Christian, homosexuality is a sin. In its proper perspective, however, no sin is greater than another, so it is immoral to single out people based upon their homosexuality and treat them any different than any other sinner. We tolerate people who abuse alcohol, destroy their bodies with cigarettes and drugs; we even tolerate inter-racial marriage. People who eat like pigs, adorn their bodies with body piercings and have tattoos are all committing sins. So, the gay people get no special condemnation for their sins and Christians should not treat the gay any different for their sins.

As a pragmatist, I know that the word prejudice is when you hold a belief without thought, knowledge, or reason. So, I have given this much thought outside my own belief as a Christian.

America is headed toward socialism. We all throw money into a big pot now and expect the government to hand us a Social Security check when we get old enough. That system is only viable when people put money into that pot. If you're gay, you do not reproduce. If you don't reproduce, there is no working generation to pay into the pot so that Social Security remains viable. That is worth thinking over.

Before you say to me that it is not your responsibility to reproduce for your fellow Americans benefit, then I would counter as to why we are headed toward socialism then. Why should your fellow man put money into any pot, by force, for the benefit of others when it offends his moral beliefs? If I put money into insurance premiums and that money is paid toward sex change operations or paying for diseases transmitted via sexual intercourse, am I not being forced to subsidize a practice that is morally unacceptable? I'm not claiming to be right on this, just showing a couple of instances where it is not cut and dried. How far we go in any "acceptance" of gay marriage or a gay lifestyle deserves asking really uncomfortable questions.

Taxation is not a pick and mix. We vote for parties with different spending plans and choose the one most aligned to our values. If you object to money being spent on birth control or sex changes then vote for the party that is against that. If there isnt a party then set one up.

In terms of your socialism thoughts it puzzles me. Insurance schemes are how you deal with some of lifes misfortunes. Socialism is how we deal with some of that. We are all going to get old or sick. We pay into a fund to cover us from those eventualities.The UK welfare state protects us all by virtue of its size and makes us a civilised and caring society. The NHS protects us all and has never caused anybody to go bankrupt.

Gay folk arent asking for any handouts. They just want the equality they are entitled to.

Therein is the root of socialism. Nobody is entitled to any portion of what I have earned.

Well if you enjoy the benefits of an advanced society then that is nonsense.

Sometimes what you pay is more than if you had reached into your pocket and paid as you go.

Nope. You dont build your own roads and bridges or keep your own fire service. We are all beneficiaries of a community effort.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It is my opinion that America was founded as a very special place and it can only be understood by reading this sermon that was delivered in 1630 by John Winthrop and quoted all the way up to the time of JFK and Ronald Reagan:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

What we base our decision on is not dependent upon what other countries do or do not do. When America observed their founding principles and remained true to the goals and objectives upon which we were founded - and the direction the colonists began in, this nation was blessed above all the nations of the earth. We should base our decisions upon what is right and what is wrong.

For the Christian, homosexuality is a sin. In its proper perspective, however, no sin is greater than another, so it is immoral to single out people based upon their homosexuality and treat them any different than any other sinner. We tolerate people who abuse alcohol, destroy their bodies with cigarettes and drugs; we even tolerate inter-racial marriage. People who eat like pigs, adorn their bodies with body piercings and have tattoos are all committing sins. So, the gay people get no special condemnation for their sins and Christians should not treat the gay any different for their sins.

As a pragmatist, I know that the word prejudice is when you hold a belief without thought, knowledge, or reason. So, I have given this much thought outside my own belief as a Christian.

America is headed toward socialism. We all throw money into a big pot now and expect the government to hand us a Social Security check when we get old enough. That system is only viable when people put money into that pot. If you're gay, you do not reproduce. If you don't reproduce, there is no working generation to pay into the pot so that Social Security remains viable. That is worth thinking over.

Before you say to me that it is not your responsibility to reproduce for your fellow Americans benefit, then I would counter as to why we are headed toward socialism then. Why should your fellow man put money into any pot, by force, for the benefit of others when it offends his moral beliefs? If I put money into insurance premiums and that money is paid toward sex change operations or paying for diseases transmitted via sexual intercourse, am I not being forced to subsidize a practice that is morally unacceptable? I'm not claiming to be right on this, just showing a couple of instances where it is not cut and dried. How far we go in any "acceptance" of gay marriage or a gay lifestyle deserves asking really uncomfortable questions.

Taxation is not a pick and mix. We vote for parties with different spending plans and choose the one most aligned to our values. If you object to money being spent on birth control or sex changes then vote for the party that is against that. If there isnt a party then set one up.

In terms of your socialism thoughts it puzzles me. Insurance schemes are how you deal with some of lifes misfortunes. Socialism is how we deal with some of that. We are all going to get old or sick. We pay into a fund to cover us from those eventualities.The UK welfare state protects us all by virtue of its size and makes us a civilised and caring society. The NHS protects us all and has never caused anybody to go bankrupt.

Gay folk arent asking for any handouts. They just want the equality they are entitled to.

Therein is the root of socialism. Nobody is entitled to any portion of what I have earned.

Well if you enjoy the benefits of an advanced society then that is nonsense.

Sometimes what you pay is more than if you had reached into your pocket and paid as you go.

Nope. You dont build your own roads and bridges or keep your own fire service. We are all beneficiaries of a community effort.

You just want an argument. NOBODY has ever advocated shutting down roads, bridges, and fire services to gays and you know it. That is NEVER been an argument made by gays to politicians.

You want the recognition so that you can impose yourself on heterosexuals for things like teaching jobs in public schools; you want legal recognition so that you can get medical and dental services for your significant other. There is no need for you to start going down the road of logical fallacies and straw man arguments that lead you to ad hominems.

Let me be blunt. Society doesn't have to acknowledge you any more than they have to accept white supremacists or Moonies for that matter. The modern American doesn't give two hoots in Hell about the Republic; all that matters is majority rule. You won't even hear REPUBLICANS extol the virtues of a REPUBLIC. At best they will tell you this is a "democratic republic" which is tantamount to saying virgin whore. The biggest difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that in a Republic you have unalienable Rights - that is to say Rights that are above the reach of government.

If someone opposes you, you are wasting their time with arm twisting techniques. They might be effective for a while, but that comes to an abrupt halt at some point. Rather than argue with you, let me suggest a page out of the right wing play book.

If you believe you have a Right to be married, don't ask for the government's permission, go get married. If you want legal permission, maybe you should just say civil union since it really isn't wise to use the power of government to change the meaning of words. But, just do it. If you don't get what you want out of society, start groups and businesses that will cater to your needs. There are no laws prohibiting you from starting an insurance company that will recognize unregistered gay marriages and giving them the same benefits provided to the heterosexuals that have asked the government to do something they claimed they had a Right to do in the first place.

If you get into states that don't want you to be a teacher in the public school system, get over it. You can't reproduce any way. So, leave those jurisdictions alone. Go to a more open atmosphere. Where I live, a Democrat, Stacey Abrams got over 48 percent of the gubernatorial vote and almost took the county I live in. She only carried a few largely populated counties. And if you look today, any place there is enough room, apartments and small cluster home communities are going up here so as to insure that Abrams will become a part of the political landscape. So, when that happens, I will put a For Sale sign on my house, find a place more conducive to my lifestyle and move there. That is my advice to you.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Taxation is not a pick and mix. We vote for parties with different spending plans and choose the one most aligned to our values. If you object to money being spent on birth control or sex changes then vote for the party that is against that. If there isnt a party then set one up.

In terms of your socialism thoughts it puzzles me. Insurance schemes are how you deal with some of lifes misfortunes. Socialism is how we deal with some of that. We are all going to get old or sick. We pay into a fund to cover us from those eventualities.The UK welfare state protects us all by virtue of its size and makes us a civilised and caring society. The NHS protects us all and has never caused anybody to go bankrupt.

Gay folk arent asking for any handouts. They just want the equality they are entitled to.

Therein is the root of socialism. Nobody is entitled to any portion of what I have earned.

Well if you enjoy the benefits of an advanced society then that is nonsense.

Sometimes what you pay is more than if you had reached into your pocket and paid as you go.

Nope. You dont build your own roads and bridges or keep your own fire service. We are all beneficiaries of a community effort.

You just want an argument. NOBODY has ever advocated shutting down roads, bridges, and fire services to gays and you know it. That is NEVER been an argument made by gays to politicians.

You want the recognition so that you can impose yourself on heterosexuals for things like teaching jobs in public schools; you want legal recognition so that you can get medical and dental services for your significant other. There is no need for you to start going down the road of logical fallacies and straw man arguments that lead you to ad hominems.

Let me be blunt. Society doesn't have to acknowledge you any more than they have to accept white supremacists or Moonies for that matter. The modern American doesn't give two hoots in Hell about the Republic; all that matters is majority rule. You won't even hear REPUBLICANS extol the virtues of a REPUBLIC. At best they will tell you this is a "democratic republic" which is tantamount to saying virgin whore. The biggest difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that in a Republic you have unalienable Rights - that is to say Rights that are above the reach of government.

If someone opposes you, you are wasting their time with arm twisting techniques. They might be effective for a while, but that comes to an abrupt halt at some point. Rather than argue with you, let me suggest a page out of the right wing play book.

If you believe you have a Right to be married, don't ask for the government's permission, go get married. If you want legal permission, maybe you should just say civil union since it really isn't wise to use the power of government to change the meaning of words. But, just do it. If you don't get what you want out of society, start groups and businesses that will cater to your needs. There are no laws prohibiting you from starting an insurance company that will recognize unregistered gay marriages and giving them the same benefits provided to the heterosexuals that have asked the government to do something they claimed they had a Right to do in the first place.

If you get into states that don't want you to be a teacher in the public school system, get over it. You can't reproduce any way. So, leave those jurisdictions alone. Go to a more open atmosphere. Where I live, a Democrat, Stacey Abrams got over 48 percent of the gubernatorial vote and almost took the county I live in. She only carried a few largely populated counties. And if you look today, any place there is enough room, apartments and small cluster home communities are going up here so as to insure that Abrams will become a part of the political landscape. So, when that happens, I will put a For Sale sign on my house, find a place more conducive to my lifestyle and move there. That is my advice to you.

You made a dumb comment and I pointed out why. Now you are upset.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Therein is the root of socialism. Nobody is entitled to any portion of what I have earned.

Well if you enjoy the benefits of an advanced society then that is nonsense.

Sometimes what you pay is more than if you had reached into your pocket and paid as you go.

Nope. You dont build your own roads and bridges or keep your own fire service. We are all beneficiaries of a community effort.

You just want an argument. NOBODY has ever advocated shutting down roads, bridges, and fire services to gays and you know it. That is NEVER been an argument made by gays to politicians.

You want the recognition so that you can impose yourself on heterosexuals for things like teaching jobs in public schools; you want legal recognition so that you can get medical and dental services for your significant other. There is no need for you to start going down the road of logical fallacies and straw man arguments that lead you to ad hominems.

Let me be blunt. Society doesn't have to acknowledge you any more than they have to accept white supremacists or Moonies for that matter. The modern American doesn't give two hoots in Hell about the Republic; all that matters is majority rule. You won't even hear REPUBLICANS extol the virtues of a REPUBLIC. At best they will tell you this is a "democratic republic" which is tantamount to saying virgin whore. The biggest difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that in a Republic you have unalienable Rights - that is to say Rights that are above the reach of government.

If someone opposes you, you are wasting their time with arm twisting techniques. They might be effective for a while, but that comes to an abrupt halt at some point. Rather than argue with you, let me suggest a page out of the right wing play book.

If you believe you have a Right to be married, don't ask for the government's permission, go get married. If you want legal permission, maybe you should just say civil union since it really isn't wise to use the power of government to change the meaning of words. But, just do it. If you don't get what you want out of society, start groups and businesses that will cater to your needs. There are no laws prohibiting you from starting an insurance company that will recognize unregistered gay marriages and giving them the same benefits provided to the heterosexuals that have asked the government to do something they claimed they had a Right to do in the first place.

If you get into states that don't want you to be a teacher in the public school system, get over it. You can't reproduce any way. So, leave those jurisdictions alone. Go to a more open atmosphere. Where I live, a Democrat, Stacey Abrams got over 48 percent of the gubernatorial vote and almost took the county I live in. She only carried a few largely populated counties. And if you look today, any place there is enough room, apartments and small cluster home communities are going up here so as to insure that Abrams will become a part of the political landscape. So, when that happens, I will put a For Sale sign on my house, find a place more conducive to my lifestyle and move there. That is my advice to you.

You made a dumb comment and I pointed out why. Now you are upset.

I made a comment you didn't like. To call it dumb is the epitome of arrogance on your part. You don't upset me in the least. You don't have that kind of power.

But, now that you initiate personal attacks, it means that I can live in your head rent free from now on.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Well if you enjoy the benefits of an advanced society then that is nonsense.

Sometimes what you pay is more than if you had reached into your pocket and paid as you go.

Nope. You dont build your own roads and bridges or keep your own fire service. We are all beneficiaries of a community effort.

You just want an argument. NOBODY has ever advocated shutting down roads, bridges, and fire services to gays and you know it. That is NEVER been an argument made by gays to politicians.

You want the recognition so that you can impose yourself on heterosexuals for things like teaching jobs in public schools; you want legal recognition so that you can get medical and dental services for your significant other. There is no need for you to start going down the road of logical fallacies and straw man arguments that lead you to ad hominems.

Let me be blunt. Society doesn't have to acknowledge you any more than they have to accept white supremacists or Moonies for that matter. The modern American doesn't give two hoots in Hell about the Republic; all that matters is majority rule. You won't even hear REPUBLICANS extol the virtues of a REPUBLIC. At best they will tell you this is a "democratic republic" which is tantamount to saying virgin whore. The biggest difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that in a Republic you have unalienable Rights - that is to say Rights that are above the reach of government.

If someone opposes you, you are wasting their time with arm twisting techniques. They might be effective for a while, but that comes to an abrupt halt at some point. Rather than argue with you, let me suggest a page out of the right wing play book.

If you believe you have a Right to be married, don't ask for the government's permission, go get married. If you want legal permission, maybe you should just say civil union since it really isn't wise to use the power of government to change the meaning of words. But, just do it. If you don't get what you want out of society, start groups and businesses that will cater to your needs. There are no laws prohibiting you from starting an insurance company that will recognize unregistered gay marriages and giving them the same benefits provided to the heterosexuals that have asked the government to do something they claimed they had a Right to do in the first place.

If you get into states that don't want you to be a teacher in the public school system, get over it. You can't reproduce any way. So, leave those jurisdictions alone. Go to a more open atmosphere. Where I live, a Democrat, Stacey Abrams got over 48 percent of the gubernatorial vote and almost took the county I live in. She only carried a few largely populated counties. And if you look today, any place there is enough room, apartments and small cluster home communities are going up here so as to insure that Abrams will become a part of the political landscape. So, when that happens, I will put a For Sale sign on my house, find a place more conducive to my lifestyle and move there. That is my advice to you.

You made a dumb comment and I pointed out why. Now you are upset.

I made a comment you didn't like. To call it dumb is the epitome of arrogance on your part. You don't upset me in the least. You don't have that kind of power.

But, now that you initiate personal attacks, it means that I can live in your head rent free from now on.

I didnt dislike your comment.I just thought it was silly.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Sometimes what you pay is more than if you had reached into your pocket and paid as you go.

Nope. You dont build your own roads and bridges or keep your own fire service. We are all beneficiaries of a community effort.

You just want an argument. NOBODY has ever advocated shutting down roads, bridges, and fire services to gays and you know it. That is NEVER been an argument made by gays to politicians.

You want the recognition so that you can impose yourself on heterosexuals for things like teaching jobs in public schools; you want legal recognition so that you can get medical and dental services for your significant other. There is no need for you to start going down the road of logical fallacies and straw man arguments that lead you to ad hominems.

Let me be blunt. Society doesn't have to acknowledge you any more than they have to accept white supremacists or Moonies for that matter. The modern American doesn't give two hoots in Hell about the Republic; all that matters is majority rule. You won't even hear REPUBLICANS extol the virtues of a REPUBLIC. At best they will tell you this is a "democratic republic" which is tantamount to saying virgin whore. The biggest difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that in a Republic you have unalienable Rights - that is to say Rights that are above the reach of government.

If someone opposes you, you are wasting their time with arm twisting techniques. They might be effective for a while, but that comes to an abrupt halt at some point. Rather than argue with you, let me suggest a page out of the right wing play book.

If you believe you have a Right to be married, don't ask for the government's permission, go get married. If you want legal permission, maybe you should just say civil union since it really isn't wise to use the power of government to change the meaning of words. But, just do it. If you don't get what you want out of society, start groups and businesses that will cater to your needs. There are no laws prohibiting you from starting an insurance company that will recognize unregistered gay marriages and giving them the same benefits provided to the heterosexuals that have asked the government to do something they claimed they had a Right to do in the first place.

If you get into states that don't want you to be a teacher in the public school system, get over it. You can't reproduce any way. So, leave those jurisdictions alone. Go to a more open atmosphere. Where I live, a Democrat, Stacey Abrams got over 48 percent of the gubernatorial vote and almost took the county I live in. She only carried a few largely populated counties. And if you look today, any place there is enough room, apartments and small cluster home communities are going up here so as to insure that Abrams will become a part of the political landscape. So, when that happens, I will put a For Sale sign on my house, find a place more conducive to my lifestyle and move there. That is my advice to you.

You made a dumb comment and I pointed out why. Now you are upset.

I made a comment you didn't like. To call it dumb is the epitome of arrogance on your part. You don't upset me in the least. You don't have that kind of power.

But, now that you initiate personal attacks, it means that I can live in your head rent free from now on.

I didnt dislike your comment.I just thought it was silly.

There is nothing idiotic about the truth. Having applied the principles to my own life for decades, it works.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Nope. You dont build your own roads and bridges or keep your own fire service. We are all beneficiaries of a community effort.

You just want an argument. NOBODY has ever advocated shutting down roads, bridges, and fire services to gays and you know it. That is NEVER been an argument made by gays to politicians.

You want the recognition so that you can impose yourself on heterosexuals for things like teaching jobs in public schools; you want legal recognition so that you can get medical and dental services for your significant other. There is no need for you to start going down the road of logical fallacies and straw man arguments that lead you to ad hominems.

Let me be blunt. Society doesn't have to acknowledge you any more than they have to accept white supremacists or Moonies for that matter. The modern American doesn't give two hoots in Hell about the Republic; all that matters is majority rule. You won't even hear REPUBLICANS extol the virtues of a REPUBLIC. At best they will tell you this is a "democratic republic" which is tantamount to saying virgin whore. The biggest difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that in a Republic you have unalienable Rights - that is to say Rights that are above the reach of government.

If someone opposes you, you are wasting their time with arm twisting techniques. They might be effective for a while, but that comes to an abrupt halt at some point. Rather than argue with you, let me suggest a page out of the right wing play book.

If you believe you have a Right to be married, don't ask for the government's permission, go get married. If you want legal permission, maybe you should just say civil union since it really isn't wise to use the power of government to change the meaning of words. But, just do it. If you don't get what you want out of society, start groups and businesses that will cater to your needs. There are no laws prohibiting you from starting an insurance company that will recognize unregistered gay marriages and giving them the same benefits provided to the heterosexuals that have asked the government to do something they claimed they had a Right to do in the first place.

If you get into states that don't want you to be a teacher in the public school system, get over it. You can't reproduce any way. So, leave those jurisdictions alone. Go to a more open atmosphere. Where I live, a Democrat, Stacey Abrams got over 48 percent of the gubernatorial vote and almost took the county I live in. She only carried a few largely populated counties. And if you look today, any place there is enough room, apartments and small cluster home communities are going up here so as to insure that Abrams will become a part of the political landscape. So, when that happens, I will put a For Sale sign on my house, find a place more conducive to my lifestyle and move there. That is my advice to you.

You made a dumb comment and I pointed out why. Now you are upset.

I made a comment you didn't like. To call it dumb is the epitome of arrogance on your part. You don't upset me in the least. You don't have that kind of power.

But, now that you initiate personal attacks, it means that I can live in your head rent free from now on.

I didnt dislike your comment.I just thought it was silly.

There is nothing idiotic about the truth. Having applied the principles to my own life for decades, it works.

You didnt state the truth. You gave an opinion that was not backed by facts. I pointed out several obvious flaws in your comment which you have yet to refute.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You just want an argument. NOBODY has ever advocated shutting down roads, bridges, and fire services to gays and you know it. That is NEVER been an argument made by gays to politicians.

You want the recognition so that you can impose yourself on heterosexuals for things like teaching jobs in public schools; you want legal recognition so that you can get medical and dental services for your significant other. There is no need for you to start going down the road of logical fallacies and straw man arguments that lead you to ad hominems.

Let me be blunt. Society doesn't have to acknowledge you any more than they have to accept white supremacists or Moonies for that matter. The modern American doesn't give two hoots in Hell about the Republic; all that matters is majority rule. You won't even hear REPUBLICANS extol the virtues of a REPUBLIC. At best they will tell you this is a "democratic republic" which is tantamount to saying virgin whore. The biggest difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that in a Republic you have unalienable Rights - that is to say Rights that are above the reach of government.

If someone opposes you, you are wasting their time with arm twisting techniques. They might be effective for a while, but that comes to an abrupt halt at some point. Rather than argue with you, let me suggest a page out of the right wing play book.

If you believe you have a Right to be married, don't ask for the government's permission, go get married. If you want legal permission, maybe you should just say civil union since it really isn't wise to use the power of government to change the meaning of words. But, just do it. If you don't get what you want out of society, start groups and businesses that will cater to your needs. There are no laws prohibiting you from starting an insurance company that will recognize unregistered gay marriages and giving them the same benefits provided to the heterosexuals that have asked the government to do something they claimed they had a Right to do in the first place.

If you get into states that don't want you to be a teacher in the public school system, get over it. You can't reproduce any way. So, leave those jurisdictions alone. Go to a more open atmosphere. Where I live, a Democrat, Stacey Abrams got over 48 percent of the gubernatorial vote and almost took the county I live in. She only carried a few largely populated counties. And if you look today, any place there is enough room, apartments and small cluster home communities are going up here so as to insure that Abrams will become a part of the political landscape. So, when that happens, I will put a For Sale sign on my house, find a place more conducive to my lifestyle and move there. That is my advice to you.

You made a dumb comment and I pointed out why. Now you are upset.

I made a comment you didn't like. To call it dumb is the epitome of arrogance on your part. You don't upset me in the least. You don't have that kind of power.

But, now that you initiate personal attacks, it means that I can live in your head rent free from now on.

I didnt dislike your comment.I just thought it was silly.

There is nothing idiotic about the truth. Having applied the principles to my own life for decades, it works.

You didnt state the truth. You gave an opinion that was not backed by facts. I pointed out several obvious flaws in your comment which you have yet to refute.

You pointed out nothing of the sort. You just have a high opinion of yourself. It could be your attitude rather than your lifestyle that has you bitching on a discussion board and trying to pretend to have a monopoly on human virtue that is at the root of your real problem.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Ok, explain how you are overtaxed in relation to the many benefits you get.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Ok, explain how you are overtaxed in relation to the many benefits you get.

When it comes to roads and bridges, I pay over 40 cents a gallon in gas for using them. That was one of your arguments.

Insofar as fire services, I pay over $1600 a year in property taxes for a small retirement home which is maybe 1500 or so square feet. They charge me school taxes and I have no kids in school. They charge me for water run-off and I live in a bowl where the water is diverted to a large hole on my property. None of it runs into the street to become the county's problem. And to add insult to injury, the county does not allow us to reclaim the runoff water and use it for lawns and gardens. How utterly stupid!

I'm trying to figure out what services I get. I practice Krav Maga and carry a weapon, so my personal security is pretty well covered; the cops show up after crimes have been committed to write out a police report that you can give to the insurance company for any losses, but that don't cover $1600 a year in property taxes. I think that sales tax is 8 percent here AND the SOBs (and I don't mean Swell Old Boys) forced me to put insurance and a tag on a Bronco that sits in under the carport and has not been on a street in over 25 years. We also have a state income tax and the federal income tax. In short, I live off 45 percent of what I make and the government takes 55 percent in taxes.

Don't know what that had to do with your issue, but I really don't get much for what I pay in.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Ok, explain how you are overtaxed in relation to the many benefits you get.

When it comes to roads and bridges, I pay over 40 cents a gallon in gas for using them. That was one of your arguments.

Insofar as fire services, I pay over $1600 a year in property taxes for a small retirement home which is maybe 1500 or so square feet. They charge me school taxes and I have no kids in school. They charge me for water run-off and I live in a bowl where the water is diverted to a large hole on my property. None of it runs into the street to become the county's problem. And to add insult to injury, the county does not allow us to reclaim the runoff water and use it for lawns and gardens. How utterly stupid!

I'm trying to figure out what services I get. I practice Krav Maga and carry a weapon, so my personal security is pretty well covered; the cops show up after crimes have been committed to write out a police report that you can give to the insurance company for any losses, but that don't cover $1600 a year in property taxes. I think that sales tax is 8 percent here AND the SOBs (and I don't mean Swell Old Boys) forced me to put insurance and a tag on a Bronco that sits in under the carport and has not been on a street in over 25 years. We also have a state income tax and the federal income tax. In short, I live off 45 percent of what I make and the government takes 55 percent in taxes.

Don't know what that had to do with your issue, but I really don't get much for what I pay in.

You benefit from schools even if you do not have kids. You benefit from having people educated so that they can perform all the tasks that society needs to keep moving. If you cant see that its probably not worth us carrying on this conversation.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Veterans dishonourably discharged for being gay can reclaim benefits under new Rhode Island bill

Rhode Island’s governor kicked off Veteran’s Day weekend by approving legislation that will extend local and state benefits to veterans who were dishonourably discharged for their sexuality.

Great news. Another injustice put right.

 

[Syriusly]

Be pretend married. I just roll my eyes

How does pretend marriage work out for you?

ZING!

excellent!

You have to admit they did not have to torpedo traditional marriage to get equal footing under the law. It was a media driven power play. Republicans were asking for it though by being such A holes on civil unions.

As a man who has been happily married to my wife for decades- how has this torpedoed my 'traditional marriage'?

Allowing two men or two women to marry doesn't affect my 'traditional marriage' in the least.

And no- there really was no other way for gay Americans to get marriage equality. As you pointed out the Right went to great lengths to not only prevent gay Americans from marrying- they also went to great lengths to deny them a legal equivalent.

So a few people went to court- and won. No one else's marriage was harmed.

 

[Syriusly]

Gay Marriage Around the World

Support for equality grows every year with a total of 30 countries legalising it so far. The number increases every year and the countries that are hostile seem to be places which are ruled by religious extremists .

This is backed up by polling which shows support at around 2 thirds in favour in Australia,US and up to 80% plus in Sweden.

I cant see this trend being reversed and can see the majority of nations having similar laws in the next decade.

In the spirit of all men being created equal should the US and EU countries take steps to encourage this ? What would you like to see ?

For myself I think it can be difficult to overturn prejudice and I dont really know whether the stick or carrot is the best way forward.

It is my opinion that America was founded as a very special place and it can only be understood by reading this sermon that was delivered in 1630 by John Winthrop and quoted all the way up to the time of JFK and Ronald Reagan:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

What we base our decision on is not dependent upon what other countries do or do not do. When America observed their founding principles and remained true to the goals and objectives upon which we were founded - and the direction the colonists began in, this nation was blessed above all the nations of the earth. We should base our decisions upon what is right and what is wrong.

For the Christian, homosexuality is a sin. In its proper perspective, however, no sin is greater than another, so it is immoral to single out people based upon their homosexuality and treat them any different than any other sinner. We tolerate people who abuse alcohol, destroy their bodies with cigarettes and drugs; we even tolerate inter-racial marriage. People who eat like pigs, adorn their bodies with body piercings and have tattoos are all committing sins. So, the gay people get no special condemnation for their sins and Christians should not treat the gay any different for their sins.

As a pragmatist, I know that the word prejudice is when you hold a belief without thought, knowledge, or reason. So, I have given this much thought outside my own belief as a Christian.

America is headed toward socialism. We all throw money into a big pot now and expect the government to hand us a Social Security check when we get old enough. That system is only viable when people put money into that pot. If you're gay, you do not reproduce. If you don't reproduce, there is no working generation to pay into the pot so that Social Security remains viable. That is worth thinking over.

Before you say to me that it is not your responsibility to reproduce for your fellow Americans benefit, then I would counter as to why we are headed toward socialism then. Why should your fellow man put money into any pot, by force, for the benefit of others when it offends his moral beliefs? If I put money into insurance premiums and that money is paid toward sex change operations or paying for diseases transmitted via sexual intercourse, am I not being forced to subsidize a practice that is morally unacceptable? I'm not claiming to be right on this, just showing a couple of instances where it is not cut and dried. How far we go in any "acceptance" of gay marriage or a gay lifestyle deserves asking really uncomfortable questions.

Taxation is not a pick and mix. We vote for parties with different spending plans and choose the one most aligned to our values. If you object to money being spent on birth control or sex changes then vote for the party that is against that. If there isnt a party then set one up.

In terms of your socialism thoughts it puzzles me. Insurance schemes are how you deal with some of lifes misfortunes. Socialism is how we deal with some of that. We are all going to get old or sick. We pay into a fund to cover us from those eventualities.The UK welfare state protects us all by virtue of its size and makes us a civilised and caring society. The NHS protects us all and has never caused anybody to go bankrupt.

Gay folk arent asking for any handouts. They just want the equality they are entitled to.

Therein is the root of socialism. Nobody is entitled to any portion of what I have earned.

off topic

 

[DustyInfinity]

Be pretend married. I just roll my eyes

How does pretend marriage work out for you?

ZING!

excellent!

You have to admit they did not have to torpedo traditional marriage to get equal footing under the law. It was a media driven power play. Republicans were asking for it though by being such A holes on civil unions.

As a man who has been happily married to my wife for decades- how has this torpedoed my 'traditional marriage'?

Allowing two men or two women to marry doesn't affect my 'traditional marriage' in the least.

And no- there really was no other way for gay Americans to get marriage equality. As you pointed out the Right went to great lengths to not only prevent gay Americans from marrying- they also went to great lengths to deny them a legal equivalent.

So a few people went to court- and won. No one else's marriage was harmed.

Yes, married people were not harmed, but redefining traditions was unnecessary and harmful. Rewriting traditions does have an effect. It would be much the same to redefine Christmas. While Republicans were begging for this to happen, the proper thing would have been to keep fighting for civil unions. It is like, I can't get what I want, so I will redefine your traditions to get what I want. That was extremely aggressive.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Ok, explain how you are overtaxed in relation to the many benefits you get.

When it comes to roads and bridges, I pay over 40 cents a gallon in gas for using them. That was one of your arguments.

Insofar as fire services, I pay over $1600 a year in property taxes for a small retirement home which is maybe 1500 or so square feet. They charge me school taxes and I have no kids in school. They charge me for water run-off and I live in a bowl where the water is diverted to a large hole on my property. None of it runs into the street to become the county's problem. And to add insult to injury, the county does not allow us to reclaim the runoff water and use it for lawns and gardens. How utterly stupid!

I'm trying to figure out what services I get. I practice Krav Maga and carry a weapon, so my personal security is pretty well covered; the cops show up after crimes have been committed to write out a police report that you can give to the insurance company for any losses, but that don't cover $1600 a year in property taxes. I think that sales tax is 8 percent here AND the SOBs (and I don't mean Swell Old Boys) forced me to put insurance and a tag on a Bronco that sits in under the carport and has not been on a street in over 25 years. We also have a state income tax and the federal income tax. In short, I live off 45 percent of what I make and the government takes 55 percent in taxes.

Don't know what that had to do with your issue, but I really don't get much for what I pay in.

You benefit from schools even if you do not have kids. You benefit from having people educated so that they can perform all the tasks that society needs to keep moving. If you cant see that its probably not worth us carrying on this conversation.

It's not worth our having this conversation. Technologically, we've gone as far as we need to without having the technology destroy our lives and our Liberties.