SunEdison Solar Farm Beats Gas With Biggest Colorado Project

[flacaltenn]

Both wind and solar are cheaper without subsidies than is dirty coal. I have not seen any subsidies for the grid scale batteries.

Another Mega Battery Factory in U.S., This One For the Grid | Xconomy

Eikeland said Alevo chose North Carolina, which hasn’t provided any financial incentives, because it could locally source many of the components and machinery it needed. The entire battery except for the electrolyte will be assembled in North Carolina; one local supplier is engineering company Parker Hannifin. “We spent years looking to secure the location that’s capable of a multi-gigawatt capacity,” Eikeland says. The company hopes to operate in the U.S. and has a supply agreement with a Chinese energy project developer.

As for funding, Eikeland says the company has raised hundreds of millions of dollars from private investors, all in equity. It plans to start deploying its first battery systems next July.

'Largest ever' U.S. energy storage system takes shape

Energy storage specialist Alevo Group has announced plans to deliver the largest U.S. energy storage deployment to date, after signing a deal to provide 200MW of capacity.

The company, which emerged from stealth mode last autumn with news that it had raised around $1 billion to support the development of its advanced battery technology, revealed that it has signed a deal with energy services firm Customized Energy Solutions (CES).

The joint operational agreement will see the two companies work together to provide 200MW of grid frequency regulation services to the wholesale power market through Alevo's GridBank energy storage systems. These are 2MW capacity batteries stored in shipping containers.

Alevo said that the deal will allow CES to provide energy storage-based frequency regulation services to its customer base in the U.S. and Canada, and "represents the largest ever energy storage deployment in the U.S."

Grid scale storage, at the generation end and the customer end, is now a reality.

First of all -- whoever wrote that happy tripe has no concept of engineering storage units. You can't specify storage capacity in MegaWatts.. If they meant MW-HOURS than each of those containers is enough for 2000 homes for ONE HOUR. Article says they will manufacturing 40 of those per month..

Secondly, "grid frequency regulation capacity " is NOT storage capacity. It's the process of synchronizing very sketchy generators so that they don't DAMAGE the grid or your refrigerator.

In fact Japan -- who does far better than us in grid engineering REQUIRES every solar/ wind installation to have a MINIMUM amount of storage (like 15 to 40 minutes) to keep the grid from going haywire with every puff of wind or cloud passing by.. That's a cost that we may REGRET not requiring once we get sucked deeper into this hysteria without a real plan..

 

[martybegan]

Both wind and solar are cheaper without subsidies than is dirty coal. I have not seen any subsidies for the grid scale batteries.

Another Mega Battery Factory in U.S., This One For the Grid | Xconomy

Eikeland said Alevo chose North Carolina, which hasn’t provided any financial incentives, because it could locally source many of the components and machinery it needed. The entire battery except for the electrolyte will be assembled in North Carolina; one local supplier is engineering company Parker Hannifin. “We spent years looking to secure the location that’s capable of a multi-gigawatt capacity,” Eikeland says. The company hopes to operate in the U.S. and has a supply agreement with a Chinese energy project developer.

As for funding, Eikeland says the company has raised hundreds of millions of dollars from private investors, all in equity. It plans to start deploying its first battery systems next July.

'Largest ever' U.S. energy storage system takes shape

Energy storage specialist Alevo Group has announced plans to deliver the largest U.S. energy storage deployment to date, after signing a deal to provide 200MW of capacity.

The company, which emerged from stealth mode last autumn with news that it had raised around $1 billion to support the development of its advanced battery technology, revealed that it has signed a deal with energy services firm Customized Energy Solutions (CES).

The joint operational agreement will see the two companies work together to provide 200MW of grid frequency regulation services to the wholesale power market through Alevo's GridBank energy storage systems. These are 2MW capacity batteries stored in shipping containers.

Alevo said that the deal will allow CES to provide energy storage-based frequency regulation services to its customer base in the U.S. and Canada, and "represents the largest ever energy storage deployment in the U.S."

Grid scale storage, at the generation end and the customer end, is now a reality.

First of all -- whoever wrote that happy tripe has no concept of engineering storage units. You can't specify storage capacity in MegaWatts.. If they meant MW-HOURS than each of those containers is enough for 2000 homes for ONE HOUR. Article says they will manufacturing 40 of those per month..

Secondly, "grid frequency regulation capacity " is NOT storage capacity. It's the process of synchronizing very sketchy generators so that they don't DAMAGE the grid or your refrigerator.

In fact Japan -- who does far better than us in grid engineering REQUIRES every solar/ wind installation to have a MINIMUM amount of storage (like 15 to 40 minutes) to keep the grid from going haywire with every puff of wind or cloud passing by.. That's a cost that we may REGRET not requiring once we get sucked deeper into this hysteria without a real plan..

Stop pestering them with Engineering facts, it makes their heads spin.

It's like Architects who design these wonderful elegant structures, who's dreams are ruined by some structural engineer who tells them, "that's great, if gravity here was the same it is on the moon"

 

[Old Rocks]

Interesting. I have heard all this kind of talk before. Concerning computers in peoples homes. Concerning hybrids and EV's. Concerning ever getting the price of solar below a dollar a watt.

Oncor proposes giant leap for grid, batteries

Utility-scale batteries have been a holy grail within the energy sector for years. With enough storage space, surplus electricity can be generated at night, when plants usually sit idle, to be used the next day, when demand is highest. Power outages would become less frequent. Wind and solar power, susceptible to weather conditions, could be built on a larger scale. The only problem has been that the price of batteries has been too high to make economic sense. But if they’re purchased on a large enough scale, that won’t be the case for long, said Oncor CEO Bob Shapard.

“Everyone assumed the price point was five to six years out. We’re getting indications from everyone we’ve talked to they can get us to that price by 2018,” he said in an interview Wednesday.

The Dallas-based transmission company is proposing the installation of 5,000 megawatts of batteries not just in its service area but across Texas’ entire grid. That is the equivalent of four nuclear power plants on a grid with a capacity of about 81,000 megawatts.

Ranging from refrigerator- to dumpster-size, the batteries would be installed behind shopping centers and in neighborhoods. Statewide, Oncor estimates a total price tag of $5.2 billion. A study commissioned by Oncor with the Brattle Group, a Massachusetts consulting firm that provides power market analysis for state regulators, says the project would not raise bills. Revenue from rental of storage space on the batteries, along with a decrease in power prices and transmission costs, should actually decrease the average Texas residential power bill 34 cents to $179.66 a month, the report said.

 

[flacaltenn]

Interesting. I have heard all this kind of talk before. Concerning computers in peoples homes. Concerning hybrids and EV's. Concerning ever getting the price of solar below a dollar a watt.

Oncor proposes giant leap for grid, batteries

Utility-scale batteries have been a holy grail within the energy sector for years. With enough storage space, surplus electricity can be generated at night, when plants usually sit idle, to be used the next day, when demand is highest. Power outages would become less frequent. Wind and solar power, susceptible to weather conditions, could be built on a larger scale. The only problem has been that the price of batteries has been too high to make economic sense. But if they’re purchased on a large enough scale, that won’t be the case for long, said Oncor CEO Bob Shapard.

“Everyone assumed the price point was five to six years out. We’re getting indications from everyone we’ve talked to they can get us to that price by 2018,” he said in an interview Wednesday.

The Dallas-based transmission company is proposing the installation of 5,000 megawatts of batteries not just in its service area but across Texas’ entire grid. That is the equivalent of four nuclear power plants on a grid with a capacity of about 81,000 megawatts.

Ranging from refrigerator- to dumpster-size, the batteries would be installed behind shopping centers and in neighborhoods. Statewide, Oncor estimates a total price tag of $5.2 billion. A study commissioned by Oncor with the Brattle Group, a Massachusetts consulting firm that provides power market analysis for state regulators, says the project would not raise bills. Revenue from rental of storage space on the batteries, along with a decrease in power prices and transmission costs, should actually decrease the average Texas residential power bill 34 cents to $179.66 a month, the report said.

Haven't a clue why storage needs to be DISTRIBUTED all over the grid.. That's solving the problem one building at a time if they plan to program these localized batteries when to store and when to use. Like I said, the Japanese understand WHAT they want to store and WHEN they want to use it. So do the Chinese with that $500Mill building I showed. It's a nightmare to spread this all around the grid in little chunks that all need service and maintenance and CONTROL... That's nothing but a big UPS backup like I have for my lab..

And the $5.2Bill is gonna set back the cause for wind/solar in terms of true price competition. Because they are PRIME reason for this expenditure and ugly use of resources. And these batteries don't live forever.. If they buffer a solar complex they probably last a lot longer than buffering a wind farm.. But these costs are for a limited (say 25 to 40 yrs) lifetime.. For that matter, they will probably outlast the useful life of a solar panel or wind mill...

. And WTF is with this "revenue from renting storage space on the batteries"??? Are they gonna charge MORE for "Stored" ? And who the fuck is 'RENTING STORAGE SPACE"? Sounds like an MBA thesis -- not an engineering plan.. My bet guess is they will require WIND and SOLAR operators to rent this space.. So the claim that this offsets consumer costs is bullshit..

""With enough storage space, surplus electricity can be generated at night, when plants usually sit idle, to be used the next day, when demand is highest."" That right thar is an excuse to neglect safety demand margins on the grid. Because if you force your main generators to run at near full capacity IN SPITE of grid demand, the traditional "banked excess" will be slim all day long..

 

[Old Rocks]

Now why should storage be distributed all over the grid? Really? Know what a good bump on the line does to PLC's? Sometimes as long as 3 hours to get the mill back up. A 2 megawatt hr battery would prevent the bump from getting through to the mills system, and, if the grid were down for a significant time, give us time to take the mill down softly. Some alloys are not salvageable when the heat treating process is interrupted.