Sucession is a Legal Right of each State

[NYcarbineer]

So, it is ok with you if the SCOTUS creates new law out of thin air? We should just shut our face and know our place?

You get to amend the Constitution if there's enough of you, lol.

I didn't say anything about amending the Constitution. You have any other brilliant posts to make? And like Maggie, you didn't answer the question.

Quit acting like a fucking child. You asked if you had recourse if the SCOTUS did something you didn't like. Yes, you can amend the Constitution. What do YOU think you can do?

 

[Charles Stucker]

You might find it instructive to learn that whether you call what you did Reductio ad Absurdum or a Strawman, it was a fallacy nonetheless.

When you extend another person's statement with reductio, and label it as such, you show that the original statement is far too wide to for a basis for debate. The statement that the law is whatever the SCOTUS decides is based on an uncontested ruling by the SCOTUS. I guarantee that if a military coup took place it could do anything desired without regard to either the constitution, the federal laws of the land, or the SCOTUS.
Just because the 1869 court aggrandized upon themselves the right to rule all secession illegal, in the modern era of "self-determination" a move by the federal government to "crush treasonous rebellion" by force would meet with universal scorn. Sauce for the goose, as the saying goes. To promote local self determination in regions of other countries and then deny the right in the United States, allegedly a bastion of liberty, is hypocritical at best and treason against the principles on which the country was founded at worst (that worst being along the lines of the 'Reign of Terror' in Republican France were a civil war to erupt and be lost by the federal government - even if unlikely I cannot imagine it getting a lot worse than that)

 

[ihopehefails]

Secession would be a de facto violation of dozens maybe hundreds of federal laws. The Constitution doesn't have to say you can't secede because it already says the states can't violate or ignore or supersede federal laws.

What does that matter, if the State is removing itself from the law and jurisdiction of the Federal system? How can it break US law when it is no longer part of the US?
Yes, I know, might makes right and the breakaway State would be forced back into the fold. But which side would be violating the law?

A State cannot arbitrarily and unilaterally exempt itself from Federal law any more than you as an individual can.

Can counties secede from a State? Can townships secede from counties? Can you and your 2 acres of property secede from your township?

If the law is unconstitutional or goes outside the powers that the constitution grants the federal government then any state or person being prosecuted by that law in a court can nullify the law once the courts find the law unconstitutional. Its the reason why laws that violate the free speech or the first amendment are nullified once a person enters a court.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

You get to amend the Constitution if there's enough of you, lol.

I didn't say anything about amending the Constitution. You have any other brilliant posts to make? And like Maggie, you didn't answer the question.

Quit acting like a fucking child. You asked if you had recourse if the SCOTUS did something you didn't like. Yes, you can amend the Constitution. What do YOU think you can do?

I didn't ask any such thing. Learn to read better. I am not acting like a child. You made another not so brilliant post.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nullification? What?? Nullification was buried with Calhoun and the Confederacy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Nullification? What?? Nullification was buried with Calhoun and the Confederacy.

Was there an amendment to the Constitution forbidding nullification?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I didn't say anything about amending the Constitution. You have any other brilliant posts to make? And like Maggie, you didn't answer the question.

Quit acting like a fucking child. You asked if you had recourse if the SCOTUS did something you didn't like. Yes, you can amend the Constitution. What do YOU think you can do?

I didn't ask any such thing. Learn to read better. I am not acting like a child. You made another not so brilliant post.

I didn't say you said anything about amending the Constitution, for one thing. Now answer the question.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What does that matter, if the State is removing itself from the law and jurisdiction of the Federal system? How can it break US law when it is no longer part of the US?
Yes, I know, might makes right and the breakaway State would be forced back into the fold. But which side would be violating the law?

A State cannot arbitrarily and unilaterally exempt itself from Federal law any more than you as an individual can.

Can counties secede from a State? Can townships secede from counties? Can you and your 2 acres of property secede from your township?

If the law is unconstitutional or goes outside the powers that the constitution grants the federal government then any state or person being prosecuted by that law in a court can nullify the law once the courts find the law unconstitutional. Its the reason why laws that violate the free speech or the first amendment are nullified once a person enters a court.

What does that have to do with secession?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Secession is a theoretical concept embedded originally in the Virginia and Kentucky resolutions by Madison and Jefferson. Calhoun dusted it off and trotted it out from the 1830s until his death. The theory was always a loser, and the CW murdered it. Let's move on.

 

[ihopehefails]

I am all for seccession. The fewer states and people the easier it would be to govern.

Can we kick a few states out? I would start with Texas. They don't want to be part of the Union anyway. Mississippi, Alabama and California would be my next nominations to kick out.

Don't forget to include Arizona because I wouldn't mind living in a society that doesn't have communist wackos running the federal government.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The constitution strictly says that the federal government may only dictate to a state about what it can do when the constitution says they can about things that are prohibited to them. All other powers are reserved for the state and the last time I checked there is nothing in the constitution that says a state can't depart.

I don't think that states should leave but it is still a right that they have which makes the union a voluntary union of states that can leave and stay as they please. The civil war did not alter the constitution with new amendments forbidding each state from leaving. It only made the idea of leaving unthinkable because we know their would be a war where any state that wants to leave will be crushed by the US armed forces. This situation is not the path to freedom but to tyranny of the federal government because how can you say each state enjoys a status of being free if the federal government interferes with their own domestic affairs and forbids them from forming their own federation with other states or countries for that matter.

The Supreme Court ruled in 1869 that a State does not have a unilateral right to leave the Union. That any acceptable procedure for a State to be allowed to leave must be created , presumably by all the States through the Congress. Or possibly an Amendment to the Constitution.

Further the Civil War settled that dispute by force of arms, at least until Congress creates a procedure or we have another Civil War and the Union fails to win.