Study: Offshore wind could generate all U.S. electricity

[mdn2000]

So you cannot debate anything in the study?

Neither can you, and who cares? You haven't represented yourself as even being coherent much less having a rational grasp of the facts.

In fact you embody the term strawman.

You state, "Neither can you", so partially we agree, you just stated that you believe I cant at the same time admitting that you are the same as me, so you have stated you cannot debate what you have posted.

As you are wrong about your idea of Green Energy, so I can see how your wrong about what I know.

You have made assumptions about me, as you have made assumptions about what you posted.

The study is not a study at all, oits a paid for by Obama with our tax money advertisement full of pure propaganda.

There are no facts in the so called "study"

Its not a study at all, its simply an incorrect idea presented by professors with zero experience.

They even begin by stating "we use estimates and assumptions".

So you have not read what you post, you cannot debate what you post, you do not even know that Obama paid professors to make propaganda.

This is pure propaganda, nothing more.

Not one person is addressing the "study", not in its defense.

It is not a study, its propaganda, it states specifically they are making assumptions.

Its paid for by government, to enrich politician's pockets and the pockets of big business.

The fact that nobody is willing to debate the so called "Study", proves there is nothing in the study but propaganda.

 

[GHook93]

I did a similar trend about energy goals. There is no reason we should be extending all our renewable non-populating energy sources (Solar, Wind, Biomass, Hydroelectric and even nuclear). Your article makes 25% of countries usage of wind a plausible reality (20% offshore, 5% inland like on farms in IL, which we are having success with). 15% hydro should have already happened. Biomass/Waste should be a no brainer. Solar, technology must get better, but the abundance of sun in the Southern and Desert states should be taken advantage off.

Our
Here should be the nations goals by 2025:
Wind - 25% (yes it will require a lot of construction and possibly better technology, but I am a believer because of what IL has accomplished in should a short time)
Solar - 10% (Technology MUST get better, but I think it could be possible it plants are built in the right parts of the country - Sunbelt states like AZ and NV.)
Hydro -15% (There are alot of untapped and under-tapped stated like VT, ME, NH, CO, UT that could start to develop Hydro energy, but efficiency would also have to increase also - Look at some states like OR they are getting 90% of energy from Hydro)
Biomass - 5% (Make the nations waste turn into something beneficial other than waste)
That's 55% renewable green sources!

Nuclear - 25% (It makes no sense why its been decades since we expanded our nuclear products or why no nuclear plants have been built in the last few decades)
Coal and Natural Gas - 20% (Call me a hippie, but I prefer the others above over these 2).
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2715007-post1.html

But more important than this is getting our cars off of oil, esp foreign oil!

U.S. offshore winds, abundant off the coasts of 26 states, have the potential to generate four times as much power as the nation's present electric capacity, a new Department of Energy report says.

Developing this resource would help the United States reduce air pollution, achieve 20% of its electricity (or about 54 gigawatts) from wind by 2030 and create more than 43,000 permanent, well-paid technical jobs, according to the 240-page study by DOE's National Renewable Energy Laboratory.

Study: Offshore wind could generate all U.S. electricity - Green House - USATODAY.com

nuf sed

 

[Douger]

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[mdn2000]

I did a similar trend about energy goals. There is no reason we should be extending all our renewable non-populating energy sources (Solar, Wind, Biomass, Hydroelectric and even nuclear). Your article makes 25% of countries usage of wind a plausible reality (20% offshore, 5% inland like on farms in IL, which we are having success with). 15% hydro should have already happened. Biomass/Waste should be a no brainer. Solar, technology must get better, but the abundance of sun in the Southern and Desert states should be taken advantage off.

Our
Here should be the nations goals by 2025:
Wind - 25% (yes it will require a lot of construction and possibly better technology, but I am a believer because of what IL has accomplished in should a short time)
Solar - 10% (Technology MUST get better, but I think it could be possible it plants are built in the right parts of the country - Sunbelt states like AZ and NV.)
Hydro -15% (There are alot of untapped and under-tapped stated like VT, ME, NH, CO, UT that could start to develop Hydro energy, but efficiency would also have to increase also - Look at some states like OR they are getting 90% of energy from Hydro)
Biomass - 5% (Make the nations waste turn into something beneficial other than waste)
That's 55% renewable green sources!

Nuclear - 25% (It makes no sense why its been decades since we expanded our nuclear products or why no nuclear plants have been built in the last few decades)
Coal and Natural Gas - 20% (Call me a hippie, but I prefer the others above over these 2).
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2715007-post1.html

But more important than this is getting our cars off of oil, esp foreign oil!

U.S. offshore winds, abundant off the coasts of 26 states, have the potential to generate four times as much power as the nation's present electric capacity, a new Department of Energy report says.

Developing this resource would help the United States reduce air pollution, achieve 20% of its electricity (or about 54 gigawatts) from wind by 2030 and create more than 43,000 permanent, well-paid technical jobs, according to the 240-page study by DOE's National Renewable Energy Laboratory.

Study: Offshore wind could generate all U.S. electricity - Green House - USATODAY.com

nuf sed

How much electricity will it take to pump the water to the solar plants.

If you are know this topic you must be aware water is a problem, a problem which is causing the government of Arizona to suspend licences for solar farms.

So Solar is out for the fact it takes to much water, as you know there is very little water in Arizona and California. I know you will do a google search and come back with "dry solar", vs "wet solar", that still leaves the question of millions of gallons of water used to wash the solar panels so the issue of water has proven critical to the success of Solar.

Solar has just failed with no technological solution. The laws of nature have killed solar.

This is pure fact, water, the lack of, the need of, prevents Solar from being used.

I will wait for you to concede, afterwards I will address the next type energy falsely called Green.

Solar pollutes as well, but given water kills the issue there is nothing to debate.

 

[GHook93]

sorry chumpo but my own math and my own experience in solar and water current engineering had long ago convinced me that there is far more than enough energy latent in those media to power our consumption.

10 years ago the figure was batted around that solar energy available at the earth's surface was 10,000 times the value of our entire energy consumption.

To bad the cost of capturing all that Energy would be astronomical both in cash cost and the sheer size of space you would need to cover with solar panels eh.

We need to work on solar collection in Orbit IMO.

Not at all.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep4L18zOEYI[/ame]

I like the idea, but that has to be very expensive. What about maintenance? That has to be expensive also! I am also not sure how a car would stay on the road driving on glass!

 

[mdn2000]

The user who started this thread cut and pasted from an article in USA Today, USA Today cut and pasted as well as linked to a 16 page summary.

That is all the proof you idiots need.

Its not proof at all, its not even a study, maybe its a summary of a study, summaries have never been accepted as fact, summaries are not even a source in a debate.

This is all it takes though to convince the fools. The price of electricity is already going up because of government mandating extremely expensive electricity.

Those who support "Green Energy and Renewables" are Jackasses.

The Jackasses dont care if we are paying extremely high electrical rates. Its just starting, 500$ a month is the new average electrical bill.

500$ a month, I guess all of you are rich.

Jackasses, all of you.

 

[KissMy]

Here should be the nations goals by 2025:
Wind - 25% (yes it will require a lot of construction and possibly better technology, but I am a believer because of what IL has accomplished in should a short time)
Solar - 10% (Technology MUST get better, but I think it could be possible it plants are built in the right parts of the country - Sunbelt states like AZ and NV.)
Hydro -15% (There are alot of untapped and under-tapped stated like VT, ME, NH, CO, UT that could start to develop Hydro energy, but efficiency would also have to increase also - Look at some states like OR they are getting 90% of energy from Hydro)
Biomass - 5% (Make the nations waste turn into something beneficial other than waste)
That's 55% renewable green sources!

Nuclear - 25% (It makes no sense why its been decades since we expanded our nuclear products or why no nuclear plants have been built in the last few decades)
Coal and Natural Gas - 20% (Call me a hippie, but I prefer the others above over these 2).
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2715007-post1.html

But more important than this is getting our cars off of oil, esp foreign oil!

Your targets are a physical impossibility
-Wind only creates power 25% of the time.
-Solar only creates power 15% of the time.
A lot of the time the wind blows while the sun shines. So these percentages overlap. There is no way to store enough power for the days the wind does not blow or sun don't shine. You will need way more hydro electric storage than we have room for. V2G Hybrid Electric Autos can help with storage on a smart grid.

You also can't have nuclear plants as your only source of power when the wind & sun are not producing. Nuclear Plants take most of the day to ramp power up & down. They are only good for base-load power & are very expensive. We will still be dependent on fossil fuels for peak & swing power loads, because these plants can respond very rapidly.

I read somewhere that Texas wind farms generate more power than the grid consumes while the wind blows. The problem is transmission line operators won't send the excess power to other regions or states during these high production periods. These wind farms have to dump & burn off this excess power. By not being able to sell this power when the wind blows these wind farms may go broke.

 

[mdn2000]

Here should be the nations goals by 2025:
Wind - 25% (yes it will require a lot of construction and possibly better technology, but I am a believer because of what IL has accomplished in should a short time)
Solar - 10% (Technology MUST get better, but I think it could be possible it plants are built in the right parts of the country - Sunbelt states like AZ and NV.)
Hydro -15% (There are alot of untapped and under-tapped stated like VT, ME, NH, CO, UT that could start to develop Hydro energy, but efficiency would also have to increase also - Look at some states like OR they are getting 90% of energy from Hydro)
Biomass - 5% (Make the nations waste turn into something beneficial other than waste)
That's 55% renewable green sources!

Nuclear - 25% (It makes no sense why its been decades since we expanded our nuclear products or why no nuclear plants have been built in the last few decades)
Coal and Natural Gas - 20% (Call me a hippie, but I prefer the others above over these 2).
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2715007-post1.html

But more important than this is getting our cars off of oil, esp foreign oil!

Your targets are a physical impossibility
-Wind only creates power 25% of the time.
-Solar only creates power 15% of the time.
A lot of the time the wind blows while the sun shines. So these percentages overlap. There is no way to store enough power for the days the wind does not blow or sun don't shine. You will need way more hydro electric storage than we have room for. V2G Hybrid Electric Autos can help with storage on a smart grid.

You also can't have nuclear plants as your only source of power when the wind & sun are not producing. Nuclear Plants take most of the day to ramp power up & down. They are only good for base-load power & are very expensive. We will still be dependent on fossil fuels for peak & swing power loads, because these plants can respond very rapidly.

I read somewhere that Texas wind farms generate more power than the grid consumes while the wind blows. The problem is transmission line operators won't send the excess power to other regions or states during these high production periods. These wind farms have to dump & burn off this excess power. By not being able to sell this power when the wind blows these wind farms may go broke.

You make some factual points at the begining of your post.

You also make bad assumptions, not your fault, its sometimes hard to learn these things when so many people are wrong.

All the Nuclear power plants in the USA run continuously, never ramping up or down for while over a year.

Most plants are on a fuel cycle that is 18 months, some plants are on 24 month fuel cycles.

04/07/09 Susquehanna nuclear plant sets record

APRIL 7, 2009
Contact: Joe Scopelliti, 866-832-4474
[email protected]
Unit 2 at Susquehanna nuclear power plant starts refueling outage after 723 consecutive days generating electricity

Second longest run ever by a U.S. nuclear plant underscores commitment to reliability and safety by plant workers

Ending the second longest run ever by a nuclear generating unit in the United States, operators safely shut down the Unit 2 reactor at PPL Corporation’s Susquehanna nuclear power plant in northeastern Pennsylvania on Tuesday (4/7) to begin a planned refueling and maintenance outage.

Unit 2 generated electricity for 723 consecutive days since its last refueling and maintenance outage in 2007. That is a record for the Susquehanna plant, and the second longest run ever by a nuclear generating unit in the United States, according to figures provided by the Nuclear Energy Institute.

Continuous operation of Unit 2 helped the two-unit Susquehanna plant set a record by generating 19,046,000 megawatt-hours in 2008, which is enough to power about 2 million homes.

Palo Verde had a recent record as well, in the Arizona desert, our largest plant, actually three plants on one site.

So Nuclear power plants run continuously at 100% or very near 100% power.

Once you learn this fact than you need to realize that this is clean, steady, smooth power.

Nothing is perfect though, that is why you need a power protector to plug your computer into any electrical wall.

Now the worlds largest wind farm wants to be able to drop peak power on the grid, the wind farm cannot tell the operators of the grid when or how much and for how long they will have power. The wind power is a problem, its intermittent, as soon as the energy is released onto the smooth, clean, grid it creates a spike, that spike can be felt all the way to your home as your computer suddenly stops working, that is even with your expensive power protector. You can use an UPS, anything you like, but attach it to the grid with wind power and you have a major problem.

The solution is an expensive cost, on the wind farm. So expensive the Wind Farms want someone else to pay for the solution, that is what is known to us as the Smart Grid.

You get to pay all the costs so that someone else gets rich, you even get to pay higher electrical rates (today if you live in California, tomorrow for the rest of the jackasses) making everyone in the "Green Energy industry" very rich.

Wind energy is taking money from everyone to give to the rich. That is why Obama can say tax the rich and they are quiet, they know Obama will pass the laws to make them rich. I bet you Obama will even be paid to make speeches for these same people after Obama leaves office.

That is the payoff, getting a big fee for making a speech.

 

[KissMy]

The solution is an expensive cost, on the wind farm. So expensive the Wind Farms want someone else to pay for the solution, that is what is known to us as the Smart Grid.

You get to pay all the costs so that someone else gets rich, you even get to pay higher electrical rates (today if you live in California, tomorrow for the rest of the jackasses) making everyone in the "Green Energy industry" very rich.

Wind energy is taking money from everyone to give to the rich. That is why Obama can say tax the rich and they are quiet, they know Obama will pass the laws to make them rich. I bet you Obama will even be paid to make speeches for these same people after Obama leaves office.

That is the payoff, getting a big fee for making a speech.

Yes ! Those Green Speaking Fees can really make some serious Green. Former President Bill Clinton's Global Initiative organization has garnered more than $63 Billion from about 170 countries.

 

[rdean]

Rare earths are needed to make certain parts that are used in the turbines. In 2002, Republicans made sure our only rare earths mine was shut down. Now, 97% of the worlds rare earths are bought from China.

China could now cripple our military of they wanted to. Our military hi tech now depends on the Chinese.

I know, I know, right wingers will claim I'm bashing Republicans. Believe me, I wish it weren't the truth. I don't want to believe they sold out this country for a few fucking bucks.

US concerns about rare earths scarcity gain momentum

Momentum is building in the US to address the nation's growing dependence on China for rare earth materials, crucial for developing clean energy, military and manufacturing technologies.

China: All Your Rare-Earth Metals Belong to Us | Danger Room | Wired.com

the Pentagon has become increasingly concerned over Chinese demand for specialty steels and titanium, which are key to armor plating, aircraft design and other high-end weaponry

--------------------------

Any attempt to lesson our dependence on foreign energy will only come from Chinese help.

I'm going to make a bet right now. Any attempt to open that mine or lesson America's dependence on Chinese rare earths will be met with stiff opposition from the Senate Republicans.

You heard it here first. let's see if it happens. I've been able to predict everything they've done for the last 9 years. If it's bad for America, count on Republicans to do it.

 

[martybegan]

Energy Producing Winds only Blow 25% of the time. What the fuck should we do for the other 75% of the time?

Power Capacity factor

Peak Nameplate.........Continuous Average 8766hr/y
Baseload Power Plant.......90%
Hydro Electric Dam..........50%
Wind Turbine..................25%
Solar Tracker..................21%
Static PV Solar................15%

Average US Household uses 12,000kw per year.
Size required per home
5kw Solar
3kw Wind
1.5kw Hydro
0.8kw Baseload Power Plant

A rational system would have to involve some sort of stored energy mechanism. I would go with a 2 level water system, where you use some of the wind energy to pump water from a low to a high elevation, and when the wind dies down, let the water flow through a turbine. It would reduce the overall effective energy from the wind power, but would reduce the downtime (at least until all the water is in a lower state)

This does however add land use to the issue.

A stupid idea. You obviously have no idea how much energy that requires and how little energy the wind produces.

I have a degree in chemical engineering. I think I have a general grasp of what it would require. For example, it would lower the average output as the pumps would require some of the power generated, but would allow some power supply to continue in calm periods. Again, its just and idea.

 

[martybegan]

Here should be the nations goals by 2025:
Wind - 25% (yes it will require a lot of construction and possibly better technology, but I am a believer because of what IL has accomplished in should a short time)
Solar - 10% (Technology MUST get better, but I think it could be possible it plants are built in the right parts of the country - Sunbelt states like AZ and NV.)
Hydro -15% (There are alot of untapped and under-tapped stated like VT, ME, NH, CO, UT that could start to develop Hydro energy, but efficiency would also have to increase also - Look at some states like OR they are getting 90% of energy from Hydro)
Biomass - 5% (Make the nations waste turn into something beneficial other than waste)
That's 55% renewable green sources!

Nuclear - 25% (It makes no sense why its been decades since we expanded our nuclear products or why no nuclear plants have been built in the last few decades)
Coal and Natural Gas - 20% (Call me a hippie, but I prefer the others above over these 2).
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2715007-post1.html

But more important than this is getting our cars off of oil, esp foreign oil!

Your targets are a physical impossibility
-Wind only creates power 25% of the time.
-Solar only creates power 15% of the time.
A lot of the time the wind blows while the sun shines. So these percentages overlap. There is no way to store enough power for the days the wind does not blow or sun don't shine. You will need way more hydro electric storage than we have room for. V2G Hybrid Electric Autos can help with storage on a smart grid.

You also can't have nuclear plants as your only source of power when the wind & sun are not producing. Nuclear Plants take most of the day to ramp power up & down. They are only good for base-load power & are very expensive. We will still be dependent on fossil fuels for peak & swing power loads, because these plants can respond very rapidly.

I read somewhere that Texas wind farms generate more power than the grid consumes while the wind blows. The problem is transmission line operators won't send the excess power to other regions or states during these high production periods. These wind farms have to dump & burn off this excess power. By not being able to sell this power when the wind blows these wind farms may go broke.

This is where the concept of phyiscal storage of the power comes in. The example of using it to pump water to a higher elevation, and then allowing the water to power turbines at a later time when the wind power is lower is what i stated earlier in the thread.

 

[GHook93]

I did a similar trend about energy goals. There is no reason we should be extending all our renewable non-populating energy sources (Solar, Wind, Biomass, Hydroelectric and even nuclear). Your article makes 25% of countries usage of wind a plausible reality (20% offshore, 5% inland like on farms in IL, which we are having success with). 15% hydro should have already happened. Biomass/Waste should be a no brainer. Solar, technology must get better, but the abundance of sun in the Southern and Desert states should be taken advantage off.

Our
Here should be the nations goals by 2025:
Wind - 25% (yes it will require a lot of construction and possibly better technology, but I am a believer because of what IL has accomplished in should a short time)
Solar - 10% (Technology MUST get better, but I think it could be possible it plants are built in the right parts of the country - Sunbelt states like AZ and NV.)
Hydro -15% (There are alot of untapped and under-tapped stated like VT, ME, NH, CO, UT that could start to develop Hydro energy, but efficiency would also have to increase also - Look at some states like OR they are getting 90% of energy from Hydro)
Biomass - 5% (Make the nations waste turn into something beneficial other than waste)
That's 55% renewable green sources!

Nuclear - 25% (It makes no sense why its been decades since we expanded our nuclear products or why no nuclear plants have been built in the last few decades)
Coal and Natural Gas - 20% (Call me a hippie, but I prefer the others above over these 2).
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2715007-post1.html

But more important than this is getting our cars off of oil, esp foreign oil!

Study: Offshore wind could generate all U.S. electricity - Green House - USATODAY.com

nuf sed

How much electricity will it take to pump the water to the solar plants.

If you are know this topic you must be aware water is a problem, a problem which is causing the government of Arizona to suspend licences for solar farms.

So Solar is out for the fact it takes to much water, as you know there is very little water in Arizona and California. I know you will do a google search and come back with "dry solar", vs "wet solar", that still leaves the question of millions of gallons of water used to wash the solar panels so the issue of water has proven critical to the success of Solar.

Solar has just failed with no technological solution. The laws of nature have killed solar.

This is pure fact, water, the lack of, the need of, prevents Solar from being used.

I will wait for you to concede, afterwards I will address the next type energy falsely called Green.

Solar pollutes as well, but given water kills the issue there is nothing to debate.

I went to school in AZ, so I know about water scarity there. To my defense, I was unaware, and still ignorant, to how much water is used in the solar power process. Maybe you could explain it to me.

 

[mdn2000]

Rare earths are needed to make certain parts that are used in the turbines. In 2002, Republicans made sure our only rare earths mine was shut down. Now, 97% of the worlds rare earths are bought from China.

China could now cripple our military of they wanted to. Our military hi tech now depends on the Chinese.

I know, I know, right wingers will claim I'm bashing Republicans. Believe me, I wish it weren't the truth. I don't want to believe they sold out this country for a few fucking bucks.

US concerns about rare earths scarcity gain momentum

Momentum is building in the US to address the nation's growing dependence on China for rare earth materials, crucial for developing clean energy, military and manufacturing technologies.

China: All Your Rare-Earth Metals Belong to Us | Danger Room | Wired.com

the Pentagon has become increasingly concerned over Chinese demand for specialty steels and titanium, which are key to armor plating, aircraft design and other high-end weaponry

--------------------------

Any attempt to lesson our dependence on foreign energy will only come from Chinese help.

I'm going to make a bet right now. Any attempt to open that mine or lesson America's dependence on Chinese rare earths will be met with stiff opposition from the Senate Republicans.

You heard it here first. let's see if it happens. I've been able to predict everything they've done for the last 9 years. If it's bad for America, count on Republicans to do it.

Boy have you got the story wrong, your going to thank me after you read this.

It was Bill Clinton,

The Idiot's Guide to Chinagate

Thanks to Bill Clinton, China can now hit any city in the USA, using state-of-the-art solid-fueled missiles with dead-accurate, computerized guidance systems and multiple warheads.

China probably has suitcase nukes as well. These enable China to strike by proxy – equipping nuclear-armed terrorists to do its dirty work while the Chinese play innocent. Some intelligence sources claim that China maintains secret stockpiles of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons on U.S. soil, for just such contingencies.

In 1997, Clinton allowed China to take over the Panama Canal. The Chinese company Hutchison Whampoa leased the ports of Cristobal and Balboa, on the east and west openings of the canal, respectively, thus controlling access both ways.

A public outcry stopped Clinton in 1998 from leasing California's Long Beach Naval Yard to the Chinese firm COSCO. Even so, China can now strike U.S. targets easily from its bases in Panama, Vancouver and the Bahamas.

How did the Chinese catch up so fast? Easy. We sold them all the technology they needed – or handed it over for free. Neither neglect nor carelessness is to blame. Bill Clinton did it on purpose.

Rare earth metals, thanks for helping me here, you gave me information that is critical.

Rare earth metals, meaning not plentiful, rare, are being used in Green energy, at a rate that is not sustainable.

I will pull all my current information together with this to show how Green Energy will weaken us militarily by depleting the earth of the rare earth metals needed for weapons.

No liberal can ever point their fingers at republicans again, here, as posted, linked, and proved, rare earth metals are a concern, solar panels, wind mills, every form of green energy will use every rare earth metal, deplete the entire earth, and thus leave the USA without the rare earth metals needed to provide weapons for our defense.

 

[mdn2000]

I did a similar trend about energy goals. There is no reason we should be extending all our renewable non-populating energy sources (Solar, Wind, Biomass, Hydroelectric and even nuclear). Your article makes 25% of countries usage of wind a plausible reality (20% offshore, 5% inland like on farms in IL, which we are having success with). 15% hydro should have already happened. Biomass/Waste should be a no brainer. Solar, technology must get better, but the abundance of sun in the Southern and Desert states should be taken advantage off.

Our
Here should be the nations goals by 2025:
Wind - 25% (yes it will require a lot of construction and possibly better technology, but I am a believer because of what IL has accomplished in should a short time)
Solar - 10% (Technology MUST get better, but I think it could be possible it plants are built in the right parts of the country - Sunbelt states like AZ and NV.)
Hydro -15% (There are alot of untapped and under-tapped stated like VT, ME, NH, CO, UT that could start to develop Hydro energy, but efficiency would also have to increase also - Look at some states like OR they are getting 90% of energy from Hydro)
Biomass - 5% (Make the nations waste turn into something beneficial other than waste)
That's 55% renewable green sources!

Nuclear - 25% (It makes no sense why its been decades since we expanded our nuclear products or why no nuclear plants have been built in the last few decades)
Coal and Natural Gas - 20% (Call me a hippie, but I prefer the others above over these 2).
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2715007-post1.html

But more important than this is getting our cars off of oil, esp foreign oil!

How much electricity will it take to pump the water to the solar plants.

If you are know this topic you must be aware water is a problem, a problem which is causing the government of Arizona to suspend licences for solar farms.

So Solar is out for the fact it takes to much water, as you know there is very little water in Arizona and California. I know you will do a google search and come back with "dry solar", vs "wet solar", that still leaves the question of millions of gallons of water used to wash the solar panels so the issue of water has proven critical to the success of Solar.

Solar has just failed with no technological solution. The laws of nature have killed solar.

This is pure fact, water, the lack of, the need of, prevents Solar from being used.

I will wait for you to concede, afterwards I will address the next type energy falsely called Green.

Solar pollutes as well, but given water kills the issue there is nothing to debate.

I went to school in AZ, so I know about water scarity there. To my defense, I was unaware, and still ignorant, to how much water is used in the solar power process. Maybe you could explain it to me.

This is most likely better discussed in my thread, "solar is dead".

Each solar site is unique, thus the answer should be specific to a project. The California has mandated that citizens must buy extremely expensive Green Energy, 33% of the electricity we consume will be green, ordered by Republicans and Democrat politicians bought by lobbyist, special interests, unions, etc. etc..

Solar Power's share forced down our throats will cover over 200 square miles of turtle habitat, it will take more water than allowed by law, and after stealing my hard work through confiscatory tax rates and higher electrical rates in the form of million dollar subsidies, they will use my money to offset the damage they do. Further they will find a way to take my water, they will put more demand on the system I need for life, demand that will take more of my money through extremely high water prices, so high I can no longer afford to fill a simple swimming pool for my young children.

Thanks, your ideas really suck and your education in which you speak also sucks.

Here is a link for a project in the Mojave, what is clear, its a government project, a huge waste of tax payers money. Not one of the salaries of these politicians are added to the cost of the project, millions of dollars in public money is spent on the bureaucrats just for one project.

Abengoa Mojave Solar Power Plant Licensing Case Documents Page

 

[CountofTuscany]

U.S. offshore winds, abundant off the coasts of 26 states, have the potential to generate four times as much power as the nation's present electric capacity, a new Department of Energy report says.

Developing this resource would help the United States reduce air pollution, achieve 20% of its electricity (or about 54 gigawatts) from wind by 2030 and create more than 43,000 permanent, well-paid technical jobs, according to the 240-page study by DOE's National Renewable Energy Laboratory.

Study: Offshore wind could generate all U.S. electricity - Green House - USATODAY.com

nuf sed

Wind power is making a strong foothold in NYS.

 

[mdn2000]

U.S. offshore winds, abundant off the coasts of 26 states, have the potential to generate four times as much power as the nation's present electric capacity, a new Department of Energy report says.

Developing this resource would help the United States reduce air pollution, achieve 20% of its electricity (or about 54 gigawatts) from wind by 2030 and create more than 43,000 permanent, well-paid technical jobs, according to the 240-page study by DOE's National Renewable Energy Laboratory.

Study: Offshore wind could generate all U.S. electricity - Green House - USATODAY.com

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Wind power is making a strong foothold in NYS.

A foothold secured by government mandates, government guaranteed loans, subsidies that eliminate risk and guarantee profit.

Land, government mandates the use of windmills that use large tracts of lands, the government gives a company a subsidy to by the land, of if its government land the BLM allows the destruction of the land for the personal financial gain of a few people.

Less land is now available for people, we pay more because we must compete with the government, which we cant, everyone profits, banks who lend us higher amounts of money to purchase land, higher land prices mean the government collects higher taxes thus they can mandate more windmills, take more land, more of our money.

Sometimes you dont need a link to an article to know what is happening in the world, try it sometime.

 

[Old Rocks]

Here should be the nations goals by 2025:
Wind - 25% (yes it will require a lot of construction and possibly better technology, but I am a believer because of what IL has accomplished in should a short time)
Solar - 10% (Technology MUST get better, but I think it could be possible it plants are built in the right parts of the country - Sunbelt states like AZ and NV.)
Hydro -15% (There are alot of untapped and under-tapped stated like VT, ME, NH, CO, UT that could start to develop Hydro energy, but efficiency would also have to increase also - Look at some states like OR they are getting 90% of energy from Hydro)
Biomass - 5% (Make the nations waste turn into something beneficial other than waste)
That's 55% renewable green sources!

Nuclear - 25% (It makes no sense why its been decades since we expanded our nuclear products or why no nuclear plants have been built in the last few decades)
Coal and Natural Gas - 20% (Call me a hippie, but I prefer the others above over these 2).
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2715007-post1.html

But more important than this is getting our cars off of oil, esp foreign oil!

Your targets are a physical impossibility
-Wind only creates power 25% of the time.
-Solar only creates power 15% of the time.
A lot of the time the wind blows while the sun shines. So these percentages overlap. There is no way to store enough power for the days the wind does not blow or sun don't shine. You will need way more hydro electric storage than we have room for. V2G Hybrid Electric Autos can help with storage on a smart grid.

You also can't have nuclear plants as your only source of power when the wind & sun are not producing. Nuclear Plants take most of the day to ramp power up & down. They are only good for base-load power & are very expensive. We will still be dependent on fossil fuels for peak & swing power loads, because these plants can respond very rapidly.

I read somewhere that Texas wind farms generate more power than the grid consumes while the wind blows. The problem is transmission line operators won't send the excess power to other regions or states during these high production periods. These wind farms have to dump & burn off this excess power. By not being able to sell this power when the wind blows these wind farms may go broke.

Fucking dumb. Iowa already produces 14% of the electricity it uses from the wind. And that number is going up as we speak.

A combination of wind, solar, and geothermal could easily, with the existing hydro, power this whole nation. Add nuclear into the mix, and a nationwide distributed grid, and we could have clean power for the foreseeable future.

 

[Revere]

Nuclear energy won't be expanded in this country under this regime. Dream on.

 

[Revere]

You can't power transportation (trucks, cars, busses) with those energy sources in the "forseeable future."