Studies show Republicans privatizing of public schools a costly failure

[eflatminor]

One of the DOE biggest programs is pre-k education and other early education programs of which for every dollar spent creates 10 dollars in economic benefits



I see so according to you have an educated labor force doesn't help the economy.


Its already been tried and has failed horribly


Most of Americans failing schools are schools that do not get enough education funding because they are in poor areas.
Here is how you improve Americans education system
1) Governments should mandate that in teachers represent the same ethnicity as their students; because this is shown to increased education outcomes by 13%.
2) Provided all poor children with pre-k education and early education programs; of which created 10 dollars in benefits for every dollar spent
3) Regulate textbook costs and new editions/requirements like UK and Japan does which reutls in books costing 50%
4) Eliminate abstinence sex education, which results in more STD's and teen pregnancies
5) Mandate that school food not contain too much sugar, salt, fat and be hethier which has shown to increased education outcomes by 5% and reduce obesity/sicknesses
6) Government could mandate school uniforms which in Long beach reduced misconduct by 86% and increased attendance by 4%
7) Mandate every school have elementary school students attend a anti-bully program which in Seattle caused bullying to drop by 72%
8) Crack down on for profit colleges that leave students with lots of debt poor job prospects and subpar education
9) Move away from a grade based system to a more comprehensive informative system were learning is elevated instead of getting an A
The real ways to improve education would be to do all of the above.

I disagree with just about everything you've written here. You obviously worship at the alter of the central planners. Good luck with that. Personally, I'll stick with choice, competition and liberty.

I see so you are against improving the education system. The reason being is that if people are educated that wont be conservatives

I do not believe central planners of any political persuasion are capable of improving our current educational system. It is their belief that they know what's best for others that has put our education system in the shape it is. Choice, competition, consequence...these are the characteristics required to produce excellence. You get none of that with monopolies, especially government monopolies.

Lastly, I am not a conservative. When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is the left boot or the right boot is of no consequence.

 

[starcraftzzz]

I disagree with just about everything you've written here. You obviously worship at the alter of the central planners. Good luck with that. Personally, I'll stick with choice, competition and liberty.

I see so you are against improving the education system. The reason being is that if people are educated that wont be conservatives

I do not believe central planners of any political persuasion are capable of improving our current educational system. It is their belief that they know what's best for others that has put our education system in the shape it is. Choice, competition, consequence...these are the characteristics required to produce excellence. You get none of that with monopolies, especially government monopolies.

Lastly, I am not a conservative. When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is the left boot or the right boot is of no consequence.

I see so you chose to ignore reality because of some ideological belief. Just like people who think the earth is flat or 6,000 years old.

 

[eflatminor]

I see so you are against improving the education system. The reason being is that if people are educated that wont be conservatives

I do not believe central planners of any political persuasion are capable of improving our current educational system. It is their belief that they know what's best for others that has put our education system in the shape it is. Choice, competition, consequence...these are the characteristics required to produce excellence. You get none of that with monopolies, especially government monopolies.

Lastly, I am not a conservative. When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is the left boot or the right boot is of no consequence.

I see so you chose to ignore reality because of some ideological belief. Just like people who think the earth is flat or 6,000 years old.

Funny, I was thinking just how much you're ignoring reality, that reality being a miserably failing and overly costly public education system. Otherwise, you can spew all the rhetoric you care to and avoid addressing the points at hand with logic, reason or specificity. That is your right. I will choose to engage without resorting to emotionally based arguments. That probably means we have nothing more to say to one another so I just say, all the best to you.

 

[starcraftzzz]

I do not believe central planners of any political persuasion are capable of improving our current educational system. It is their belief that they know what's best for others that has put our education system in the shape it is. Choice, competition, consequence...these are the characteristics required to produce excellence. You get none of that with monopolies, especially government monopolies.

Lastly, I am not a conservative. When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is the left boot or the right boot is of no consequence.

I see so you chose to ignore reality because of some ideological belief. Just like people who think the earth is flat or 6,000 years old.

Funny, I was thinking just how much you're ignoring reality, that reality being a miserably failing and overly costly public education system.

As already shown public schools have better test scores and cost less then private schools. Example one of you denying reality.

Otherwise, you can spew all the rhetoric you care to and avoid addressing the points at hand with logic, reason or specificity. That is your right. I will choose to engage without resorting to emotionally based arguments. That probably means we have nothing more to say to one another so I just say, all the best to you.

That is the thing is that I am not spewing rhetoric I am stating facts, your are the one whose failed to post a single study; you sre the one who objected to 8 measures that have been proven to improve education just because those measures didn't fit your ignorant ideology.
You don't even make arguments. Your repsoen to my list of 8 things that would improve education was "I do not believe central planners of any political persuasion are capable of improving our current educational system" You didn't even considering the proposals on their merit you just rejected them because you have some "feeling/belief" .

 

[Ariux]

Nope incorrect Charter schools get more money from the govt then do public schools; and in fact they get 50% more money in total

Even if I hand't checked the per-student funding of the schools in the chart before my earlier reply, claiming the charter schools get 50% more money, I'd know you're so full of shit that it must be oozing out of every pore in your body.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Nope incorrect Charter schools get more money from the govt then do public schools; and in fact they get 50% more money in total

Even if I hand't checked the per-student funding of the schools in the chart before my earlier reply, claiming the charter schools get 50% more money, I'd know you're so full of shit that it must be oozing out of every pore in your body.

So why do you find reality to be full of shit? Facts remains charter schools get 50% more funding the public schools

 

[Ariux]

So why do you find reality to be full of shit? Facts remains charter schools get 50% more funding the public schools

You are such a shitbrained, drooling idiot. Don't you care about walking around with toilet paper stuck to your shoe and boogers hanging from your hook/flat nose? You must have some sort of negative-intelligence to even think it possible that government funding of charter schools could be more, much more, than that of the 100% government-controlled schools.

This is in regard to the NYC schools featured in the OP:
Charter Schools Get Less Money Per Student, Study Says [DUH!]
"According to the city schools, the gap in public funding is actually $877 per pupil, and $3,412 per pupil for those in private space [i.e. not in a government building]."

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well ok then, you wonder why the Obama's send their kids to private schools? or any politicians for that matter.

but hey, whatever you do, don't give the citizens of this a country a CHOICE...just blame the Republicans in Rdeans twilight zone world

Safety.

How can a government controlled school not be safe?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

^A Standard study on charter schools found 37% of charter schools saw less educational gain then public schools compared to 17% that did better., meaning if you were to extrapolate the data turning all charter schools to public schools would increase educational quality by 20%.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/education/31kipp.html?_r=1&ref=us
^KIPP private charter schools receive more taxpayer dollars per student then public schools do. They get around 8% more. When you include private funding the reason that KIPP charter schools do so well is because they have 50% more funds then public schools do, and because of those extra funds they are able to extend class times mon-fri and have class on Saturday.

About Those Milwaukee Vouchers | ThinkProgress
^Milwaukee students who take vouchers and go to private schools score anywhere from 10-30% lower on standardized tests.

Public Schools Outperform Private Schools in Math Instruction
^ILL researchers have found that public school students outscore private score students in math because public schools have more certified teachers, and curriculum that de-emphasized learning by rote methods.

Vouchers don’t change a thing in Washington DC
Vouchers Get a Failing Grade
Evaluation of the DC Opportunity Scholarship Program: Impacts After One Year - Introduction

The Milwaukee Voucher Failure | ThinkProgress
^Vouchers fail in Milwaukee

Vouchers in Arizona lead to corruption; Vouchers completely fail.
Vouchers lead to tax fraud, and voucher money goes to enriching CEO's
Voucher FAIL in Arizona | ThinkProgress

----------------------vouchers

Your math really sucks.

Tell me something, even if your math is accurate, why should we penalize the 17% of students that benefit from charter schools?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Charter schools, which are also government schools, do about as well, and they do it with several thousand dollars less of taxpayer money per student,

Nope incorrect Charter schools get more money from the govt then do public schools; and in fact they get 50% more money in total

C

Also, Charter schools improve the performance of regular public schools (competition).

As usual, liberals have shit for brains.

Incorrect again charter schools actually have worse performance then publci schools

Yes you having no idea what you are talking about means other people are stupid

I would think a person who thinks more money is the solution to all of our education problems as long as the money is spent on public schools would support the more expensive charter schools. That would assume that said person is actually smart enough to know that charter schools are public schools, which might be the problem here.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nope incorrect Charter schools get more money from the govt then do public schools; and in fact they get 50% more money in total


Incorrect again charter schools actually have worse performance then publci schools

Yes you having no idea what you are talking about means other people are stupid

This is why we need to close the US Department of Education, eliminate the UFT and let the parents, communities and the various states figure out how to run the schools without the Federal government

Local communities already run their schools. Further more ending the US department of education would result in schools having less money and would hurt the economy because of cuts to pre-school and other education programs

How would it result in them having less money?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let's get this straight: The idea of taking money from taxpayers, running it through Washington bureaucracies, then doling it out to state education departments with strings attached is an efficient use of money? Please.

One of the DOE biggest programs is pre-k education and other early education programs of which for every dollar spent creates 10 dollars in economic benefits

..and would hurt the economy because of cuts to pre-school and other education programs-----
The tremendous increase in tax dollars to government run schools (fed, state and local) sure as hell hasn't resulted in improvement to the economy.

I see so according to you have an educated labor force doesn't help the economy.

Maybe it's time to have competition and choice in the business of education?

Its already been tried and has failed horribly

. More taxpayer dollars isn't the answer; competition is.

Most of Americans failing schools are schools that do not get enough education funding because they are in poor areas.
Here is how you improve Americans education system
1) Governments should mandate that in teachers represent the same ethnicity as their students; because this is shown to increased education outcomes by 13%.
2) Provided all poor children with pre-k education and early education programs; of which created 10 dollars in benefits for every dollar spent
3) Regulate textbook costs and new editions/requirements like UK and Japan does which reutls in books costing 50%
4) Eliminate abstinence sex education, which results in more STD's and teen pregnancies
5) Mandate that school food not contain too much sugar, salt, fat and be hethier which has shown to increased education outcomes by 5% and reduce obesity/sicknesses
6) Government could mandate school uniforms which in Long beach reduced misconduct by 86% and increased attendance by 4%
7) Mandate every school have elementary school students attend a anti-bully program which in Seattle caused bullying to drop by 72%
8) Crack down on for profit colleges that leave students with lots of debt poor job prospects and subpar education
9) Move away from a grade based system to a more comprehensive informative system were learning is elevated instead of getting an A
The real ways to improve education would be to do all of the above.

I love magic money that multiplies just because someone says it happens.

 

[Flopper]

Private schools by their nature segregate students by, race, income level, ethnicity, and religion, not a good thing for the country.

I don't know about that. Why would the good people of say, Harlem, want their children educated by rich white guys in Washington and the state capital? Segregation in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing as long as it's based on individual choice. Local communities are better able to education their own than central planners in my humble opinion. Schools voluntarily segregated (without violating any individual rights of course) can structure their efforts far more efficiently than attempting to be all things to all students.

Further, the educational results produced by the central planners and the exorbitant costs associated with government monopolies are clearly failing our children. Choice is needed, which only a free market can provide.

Private schools maintain a criteria for admission which may be economic, academic, ethnic, or religious. They separate students into categories which emphasizing differences and that is something we certainly do not need. Most our problems in society come from a lack of understanding of other people of differing backgrounds.

 

[MeBelle]

Love John Stossel, the Libertarian!

Fox Business | Business News & Stock Quotes - Saving & Investing
There is more than one video to watch, if anyone cares to.

In Charter schools these are the teachers and administrators that have the passion to teach.

Charter Schools Don't Succeed?! - Stossel's Take Blog - Fox Business

Putting Teachers' Unions Ahead of Kids - Stossel's Take Blog - Fox Business
Keep reading and click on the links, if you care about teaching our children.

Education: Too Important for a Government Monopoly by John Stossel on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent

 

[Artevelde]

Private schools by their nature segregate students by, race, income level, ethnicity, and religion, not a good thing for the country.

I don't know about that. Why would the good people of say, Harlem, want their children educated by rich white guys in Washington and the state capital? Segregation in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing as long as it's based on individual choice. Local communities are better able to education their own than central planners in my humble opinion. Schools voluntarily segregated (without violating any individual rights of course) can structure their efforts far more efficiently than attempting to be all things to all students.

Further, the educational results produced by the central planners and the exorbitant costs associated with government monopolies are clearly failing our children. Choice is needed, which only a free market can provide.

Private schools maintain a criteria for admission which may be economic, academic, ethnic, or religious. They separate students into categories which emphasizing differences and that is something we certainly do not need. Most our problems in society come from a lack of understanding of other people of differing backgrounds.

Imagine everybody being the same. That would be horrible. Nothing wrong with a bit of freedom and diversity.

 

[editec]

Charter schools are mostly just a variant of the same socialized educational system because they still depend on societies to pay them.

The fact that the schools themselves aren't controlled by the government isn't really a big deal because the government still controls their finances.

He who has the gold still rules the schools, kiddies.

.

 

[dblack]

Charter schools are mostly just a variant of the same socialized educational system because they still depend on societies to pay them.

The fact that the schools themselves aren't controlled by the government isn't really a big deal because the government still controls their finances.

He who has the gold still rules the schools, kiddies.

.

Yep. Pretty much the standing rule with anything. Every time we delegate more of our needs to government, we give them more power over us.

 

[eflatminor]

As already shown public schools have better test scores and cost less then private schools. Example one of you denying reality.

Link? Oh wait, are you referring to the oh-so-biased link in the OP? First, that does not compare public to private. Charter schools are far from free market enterprises. Sorry, that doesn't fit. Show us where public schools have better test scores and cost less then private schools. If you can't, I call liar...full of shit...you get the idea.

you sre the one who objected to 8 measures that have been proven to improve education

Proven? Link please.

I read your list and find it to be nothing more than another case of "If you'd just follow MY way of planning, everything would be roses!" My God how many times have we heard that? Guess what pal, you don't know what's best for other people's children anymore than the central planners you bow down to. It's really pathetic but it's your right to be just so sure you know what's best, all evidence to contrary.

 

[kwc57]

The day the Public Schools can tell parents that their children are no longer welcome at their particular school (like private schools do), that will be the day that schools start improving.

I wasn't sure you had any conservative in you, but by golly you do!!!

 

[eflatminor]

Most our problems in society come from a lack of understanding of other people of differing backgrounds.

I strongly disagree with this statement but let's not get off track.

I also disagree that public schools help to improve the "understanding of other people of differing backgrounds" to a greater extent than private schools. Just because people would be given a choice with free market education doesn't mean they would choose schools that are not diverse. Unless of course you're just sure that other people are not capable of making the 'right' choice and they therefore need your guidance to be sure they do the right thing? Oh my, another central planner that's just sure he knows what's best for others...