Student Suspended For Sexual Harrassment - Wearing A Costume To Another School's Prom

[Mr. P]

This is the perfect answer to your previous question about the neighbors getting busy on their lawn...if you knew the answer already, why did you ask the question?

I call it bait.

 

[insein]

non-responsive--Federal, state and local laws limit, regulate and censor sexually based material and behavior. You seem to be advocating that they look the other way and allow private citizens to do whatever they want.

The laws are pretty clear on porn and sex in public. Public nudity laws and public sex laws are illegal almost anywhere you go. That has been a scietal decision for a very long time. IMO, you can have sex with as many or as few partners as you'd like doing all sorts of freakin shit that you want as long as its in the privacy of your own home or in the privacy of another consenting adults home. So your example is PURPOSELY extreme to confuse the argument.

Your upset that there is porn on the internet and smut on TV. You get upset when howard stern can stay on the air or when a million clones like him have success. You find it offensive when you can't allow your kid to sit down and watch a good R rated or PG-13 rated movie (clearly states not appropriate for children under 17 and 13) and find sex, nudity or partial nudity in it. You get all worked up when a porn industry that employs adults over the age of 18, distributes movies to adults over the age of 18 and makes money off of adults over the age of 18 is allowed to exist at all, despite you never buying a porno, never watching a porno and never mentioning the word porno in your household for fear of damaging your kids.

Live your life by your rules. IT really isnt that freakin hard to remove all seedy material from your life. V-Chip allows parents to lock out channels like MTV or BET so that kids dont watch the soft core music videos. You can also block all shows you dont like such as South Park, Sex and the City, anything on FOX, etc. Radio is the simplest medium to regulate. Change the channel. Dont listento Howard or any of his clones. Put in a CD and listen to whatever music you like. Movies and video games are ridiculously simple. they tell you whats in them on the box. Rated R and says contains nudity, sexually explicit material, ect, probably shouldnt buy it. If its PG-13 and says "contains sexual innuendo that parents may not find appropriate for their children" then maybe you shouldnt allow your kids to watch that if you feel they cant handle it. Video games have the easiest rating system. M is for mature. 17 years and older. T is for Teen, 13 years an older. They even now give you reasons why on the boxes. Violence, Sexual content, swearing. You have ZERO excuses for not policing your kids media content.

People enjoy their pornographic and semi-pornographic material. Otherwise it wouldnt make money. However, grown adults who dont have kids or who know how to regulate what their kids watch without interferring in other people's lives enjoy these programs otherwise they wouldnt be on the air. So you worry about your family and ill worry about mine. If we all did that, then the world would be a much happier place.

 

[dilloduck]

I call it bait.

I call it trying to pin someone down to a postition instead of listening to them flinging around opinions but not being willing to commit to them.

 

[MissileMan]

I call it bait.

Where I come from, bait works best when it resembles something real. Wait a minute...it was a crappie argument.

 

[dilloduck]

The laws are pretty clear on porn and sex in public. Public nudity laws and public sex laws are illegal almost anywhere you go. That has been a scietal decision for a very long time. IMO, you can have sex with as many or as few partners as you'd like doing all sorts of freakin shit that you want as long as its in the privacy of your own home or in the privacy of another consenting adults home. So your example is PURPOSELY extreme to confuse the argument.

Your upset that there is porn on the internet and smut on TV. You get upset when howard stern can stay on the air or when a million clones like him have success. You find it offensive when you can't allow your kid to sit down and watch a good R rated or PG-13 rated movie (clearly states not appropriate for children under 17 and 13) and find sex, nudity or partial nudity in it. You get all worked up when a porn industry that employs adults over the age of 18, distributes movies to adults over the age of 18 and makes money off of adults over the age of 18 is allowed to exist at all, despite you never buying a porno, never watching a porno and never mentioning the word porno in your household for fear of damaging your kids.

Live your life by your rules. IT really isnt that freakin hard to remove all seedy material from your life. V-Chip allows parents to lock out channels like MTV or BET so that kids dont watch the soft core music videos. You can also block all shows you dont like such as South Park, Sex and the City, anything on FOX, etc. Radio is the simplest medium to regulate. Change the channel. Dont listento Howard or any of his clones. Put in a CD and listen to whatever music you like. Movies and video games are ridiculously simple. they tell you whats in them on the box. Rated R and says contains nudity, sexually explicit material, ect, probably shouldnt buy it. If its PG-13 and says "contains sexual innuendo that parents may not find appropriate for their children" then maybe you shouldnt allow your kids to watch that if you feel they cant handle it. Video games have the easiest rating system. M is for mature. 17 years and older. T is for Teen, 13 years an older. They even now give you reasons why on the boxes. Violence, Sexual content, swearing. You have ZERO excuses for not policing your kids media content.

People enjoy their pornographic and semi-pornographic material. Otherwise it wouldnt make money. However, grown adults who dont have kids or who know how to regulate what their kids watch without interferring in other people's lives enjoy these programs otherwise they wouldnt be on the air. So you worry about your family and ill worry about mine. If we all did that, then the world would be a much happier place.

No , my example was exagerated to prove a point because I don't feel people who take a stand on smut and porn should have to alter thier lifestyles for everyone else. These are the same people who are "offended" by Christmas trees and nativity scenes. Hell, the schools don't want to even mention the word Christmas. Why can't THEY be the ones to close their eyes and plug thier ears.
The issue is who controls the public norm. People here bitch about the behavior of kids and at the same time are all for putting out every kind of bad influence they can think of in the market place and think you can tell a kid to ignore it or protect them from it somehow.
If we continue to allow people to do what ever they feel like and tell everyone who is offended by it to just "hit the off switch", we are going to have an ever growing population of morally sick people. A moral line DOES have to be drawn and telling others to move if they don't like it is bullshit.
The market place is for EVERYONE. Not just you.

 

[Mr. P]

I call it trying to pin someone down to a postition instead of listening to them flinging around opinions but not being willing to commit to them.

I know, just a jab at ya.

 

[dilloduck]

I know, just a jab at ya.

Right--well you are a " it's all the parents job" person Mr. P. You don't think the rest of society has a share of responsibilty in raising the youth of America or are you just fine with society throwing all the impediments it can to make life difficult for kids and parents ?

 

[Mr. P]

Right--well you are a " it's all the parents job" person Mr. P. You don't think the rest of society has a share of responsibilty in raising the youth of America or are you just fine with society throwing all the impediments it can to make life difficult for kids and parents ?

True, it is “ALL” the parents responsibility, IMO.
Society may assist with ratings on movies, zoning for xxx rated theaters, and laws against selling “porn” to any particular age. But, yes, in the end it’s “ALL” the parents responsibility.

It’s nice to have a rating system for movies, something Society demanded, but ya know what? I don’t trust the “system” to reflect my standards at all. So again, it’s TOTALLY up to the parent. I’ll never buy into that “It takes a village” BULLSHIT.

 

[insein]

No , my example was exagerated to prove a point because I don't feel people who take a stand on smut and porn should have to alter thier lifestyles for everyone else. These are the same people who are "offended" by Christmas trees and nativity scenes. Hell, the schools don't want to even mention the word Christmas. Why can't THEY be the ones to close their eyes and plug thier ears.

First of all, the people who cry about christmas and other christian things are the same as those that are christian and cry about pornographic things. they are a very small minority of people trying to control other people's lives.

Porn is something that i dare say 75% of ALL adults use whether they admit it or not. My parents are avid catholics. Goto church every weekend. Sent me and my sister to catholic school. Still they had pornographic material in the house. They simply TRIED to hide it from their kids (which obviously i found anyway when i was young as most normal adolescent boys do). Does that make them horrific people? Does it make anyone who looks at porn wrong and those that dont righteous?

The issue is who controls the public norm. People here bitch about the behavior of kids and at the same time are all for putting out every kind of bad influence they can think of in the market place and think you can tell a kid to ignore it or protect them from it somehow.

So then we must eliminate every bad influence in the world because no kid throughout the history of this country or time has had to deal with bad influences in their lifetime. Come on, dillo. They are bad things out there. To shield your kids in a bubble and pretend that they dont exist is not only naive but its dangerous to the kid. As a parent its not your job to protect a child from every danger that comes along. Its your job to prepare them to protect themselves.

If we continue to allow people to do what ever they feel like and tell everyone who is offended by it to just "hit the off switch", we are going to have an ever growing population of morally sick people. A moral line DOES have to be drawn and telling others to move if they don't like it is bullshit.
The market place is for EVERYONE. Not just you.

It is for everyone including me. If i want to do everything within the letter of the law to look at porn, have sex with legal, consenting adults, watch violent movies, smoke a big fucking cigar and waltz around my house naked then god damn it its my right to do so. Its your right to complain about it. Its your right to turn your head and look away. Its NOT yours or anyone elses right to make a law telling me how to live my life.

If we end up in a society where everyone has to live a certain way according to a small minority of the offended, well then we get the road we're already on. Atheists want us to eliminate god from anything government and school. Religious fanatics want us to eliminate anything pornographic from adult media in case children might get their hands on it. Everyone loves to tell other people what to do. Worry about your own lives and stop trying to tell other people what to do.

 

[dilloduck]

First of all, the people who cry about christmas and other christian things are the same as those that are christian and cry about pornographic things. they are a very small minority of people trying to control other people's lives.

So why are these minorities enacting policies that the majority disagree with?

Porn is something that i dare say 75% of ALL adults use whether they admit it or not. My parents are avid catholics. Goto church every weekend. Sent me and my sister to catholic school. Still they had pornographic material in the house. They simply TRIED to hide it from their kids (which obviously i found anyway when i was young as most normal adolescent boys do). Does that make them horrific people? Does it make anyone who looks at porn wrong and those that dont righteous?

No--it makes them considerate people who KNOW that effort should be made to protect children from certain things. Porn is fine in the privacy of one's own home.

So then we must eliminate every bad influence in the world because no kid throughout the history of this country or time has had to deal with bad influences in their lifetime.

Try to eliminate every bad influence? Great idea! It's probably not possible but is also not a reason to give up and not try at all.

Come on, dillo. They are bad things out there. To shield your kids in a bubble and pretend that they dont exist is not only naive but its dangerous to the kid. As a parent its not your job to protect a child from every danger that comes along. Its your job to prepare them to protect themselves.

Right--it's my kid and my responsibility. I know him better than anyone else. It's my responsibilty to make sure he has a safe and healthy environment to grow up in. That's MY call and that's why I would rather that he walk down a street full of churches than a street full of XXX theaters. Don't tell me to close my eyes and pretend they are not there.

If i want to do everything within the letter of the law to look at porn, have sex with legal, consenting adults, watch violent movies, smoke a big fucking cigar and waltz around my house naked then god damn it its my right to do so. Its your right to complain about it. Its your right to turn your head and look away. Its NOT yours or anyone elses right to make a law telling me how to live my life.

Sorry--people band together all the time and make laws that affect the way YOU live your life. You just like living in denial or do you want me to prove that other people CAN tell you how to live your life?

If we end up in a society where everyone has to live a certain way according to a small minority of the offended, well then we get the road we're already on.

huh?

Atheists want us to eliminate god from anything government and school. Religious fanatics want us to eliminate anything pornographic from adult media in case children might get their hands on it. Everyone loves to tell other people what to do. Worry about your own lives and stop trying to tell other people what to do.

We aren't all little islands who get to do anything we want. We are a society that bears the responsibilty of taking care of our young and weak. People will ALWAYS band together and make laws for the good of society and this will ALWAYS require some surrender of a totally hedonistic life style.

 

[Annie]

True, it is “ALL” the parents responsibility, IMO.
Society may assist with ratings on movies, zoning for xxx rated theaters, and laws against selling “porn” to any particular age. But, yes, in the end it’s “ALL” the parents responsibility.

It’s nice to have a rating system for movies, something Society demanded, but ya know what? I don’t trust the “system” to reflect my standards at all. So again, it’s TOTALLY up to the parent. I’ll never buy into that “It takes a village” BULLSHIT.

On this we agree. I didn't allow my kids to play the "Everyone else's parents let them..." argument, not going to capitulate to the hard right or left's ideas of what is 'acceptable.' I really don't have a problem with 'what's out there,' though sometimes I wish people had better taste. Be that as it may, I do know how to change a channel and I damn sure know how not to let my kids watch stuff I don't want them to. Some of it is preemptive, some just helping them develop better interests:

1.Eat dinner together-teach them the art of discussion
2.Don't let them have a tv in their room
3.Watch with them-discuss what you're watching
4.Rent videos
5.Read books together
6.Go to movies together, you chose beforehand
7.Play boardgames
8.Invite friends/relatives over, have a converstation
9.Expose them to museums and your ideas of 'good arts'. Funny how kids that have been to professional theater/orchestras tend to gravitate towards higher interests.

 

[dilloduck]

True, it is “ALL” the parents responsibility, IMO.
Society may assist with ratings on movies, zoning for xxx rated theaters, and laws against selling “porn” to any particular age. But, yes, in the end it’s “ALL” the parents responsibility.

It’s nice to have a rating system for movies, something Society demanded, but ya know what? I don’t trust the “system” to reflect my standards at all. So again, it’s TOTALLY up to the parent. I’ll never buy into that “It takes a village” BULLSHIT.

A village teaches YOUR kids---A village raises money for OUR army--A village gets together to help people in need etc etc. What fantasy world do you live in, Mr. "I do it all myself" ?

 

[insein]

On this we agree. I didn't allow my kids to play the "Everyone else's parents let them..." argument, not going to capitulate to the hard right or left's ideas of what is 'acceptable.' I really don't have a problem with 'what's out there,' though sometimes I wish people had better taste. Be that as it may, I do know how to change a channel and I damn sure know how not to let my kids watch stuff I don't want them to. Some of it is preemptive, some just helping them develop better interests:

1.Eat dinner together-teach them the art of discussion
2.Don't let them have a tv in their room
3.Watch with them-discuss what you're watching
4.Rent videos
5.Read books together
6.Go to movies together, you chose beforehand
7.Play boardgames
8.Invite friends/relatives over, have a converstation
9.Expose them to museums and your ideas of 'good arts'. Funny how kids that have been to professional theater/orchestras tend to gravitate towards higher interests.

I guess according to Dillo, your working too hard Kathi. You shouldnt have to do all that. There should laws that tell other people that they should change not you. Why are you even trying, kathi. According to dillo, its a hopeless cause anyway because there are too many bad things in the world to keep you from teaching YOUR kids how to live a good life. Why are you even here? Woe is us!

 

[Annie]

I guess according to Dillo, your working too hard Kathi. You shouldnt have to do all that. There should laws that tell other people that they should change not you. Why are you even trying, kathi. According to dillo, its a hopeless cause anyway because there are too many bad things in the world to keep you from teaching YOUR kids how to live a good life. Why are you even here? Woe is us!

Gee and here I was thinking that's what parents were supposed to do! :shocked: Not to mention enjoying our family time together...

 

[insein]

So why are these minorities enacting policies that the majority disagree with?

You tell me cause thats what your advocating.

No--it makes them considerate people who KNOW that effort should be made to protect children from certain things. Porn is fine in the privacy of one's own home.

And who is saying that porn is out there knocking on your door trying to force you to watch it?

Try to eliminate every bad influence? Great idea! It's probably not possible but is also not a reason to give up and not try at all.

Newsflash. It is impossible. Try telling a pedophile not to rape kids. Try telling a murderer not to kill people. Try telling a kidnapper not to kidnap kids. Will they say, oh i never saw it that way before? NO! These bad things are out there. All you can do as a society is lock up those that commit these crimes. All you can do as a parent is to teach kids to recognize these kinds of people and stay away from them. You can't be there to hold your kids hand the whole way. ITs impossible. Do you tell your kids to call for you every time they encounter a person they think is bad or do you tell them to recognize a bad person and react accordingly?

Right--it's my kid and my responsibility. I know him better than anyone else. It's my responsibilty to make sure he has a safe and healthy environment to grow up in. That's MY call and that's why I would rather that he walk down a street full of churches than a street full of XXX theaters. Don't tell me to close my eyes and pretend they are not there.

Don't live in the neighborhood with XXX stores lined up and down. Move to the neighborhood full of churches. If a neighborhood decides to allow a XXX store/theater in their area then dont complain when the majority said they have no problem with it. ITs alot easier for 1 person to move then for that one person to move everyone else around them out.

Sorry--people band together all the time and make laws that affect the way YOU live your life. You just like living in denial or do you want me to prove that other people CAN tell you how to live your life?

Which is bullshit. Why do a minority of people want to tell the majority of people, who have no problem living their lives peacefully, how to live their lives? It doesnt effect your life AT ALL. Someone looking at porn or going to a pornographic theater does not effect your life. If anything you should be happy. There will be more room in heaven since all these people are sinners. So why are you complaining?

We aren't all little islands who get to do anything we want. We are a society that bears the responsibilty of taking care of our young and weak. People will ALWAYS band together and make laws for the good of society and this will ALWAYS require some surrender of a totally hedonistic life style.

Society bears no such responsibilty. In a true Darwinian environment, the weak would not survive. Instead we have the weak being carried by the strong which in turn creates more weak and fewer strong. So what do we do when society becomes completely weak and the strong die off?

And who then decides what is good for society and what does no harm. Creating laws that eliminate a harmless item for the sake of the children does not HELP society. It merely hinders it and pushes it closer to totalitarianism. You are so fearful of the society that exists now, imagine if someone enacted laws that made it legal for people to run naked through the streets and have sex in your front lawn? Then they pushed it a step further. What if they outlawed prayer as something that was hurting society? What if a minority felt that prayer and churches were the ultimate evil in our society (which some do) and were determined to outlaw all of it? Would that be good for society if they said it was? Or is your determination of what is good for society the only one that matters?

Thought like yours, dillo is dangerous. You allow a vocal minority to strip away basic liberties for the "good of society" or "to protect the children" when most of soceity is getting along just fine without any restrictions. They are finding their way to live their life wholesomely without the help of governmental laws. Then if the tables are turned as is the case with these atheists, your not so quick to allow the minority the right to tell society what to do. Which way is it dillo? Minority telling people what to do or letting people decide what is right and what is wrong based on what they believe and leaving the government out of it?

 

[dilloduck]

I guess according to Dillo, your working too hard Kathi. You shouldnt have to do all that. There should laws that tell other people that they should change not you. Why are you even trying, kathi. According to dillo, its a hopeless cause anyway because there are too many bad things in the world to keep you from teaching YOUR kids how to live a good life. Why are you even here? Woe is us!

No--- I think what Kathianne is admirable and I commend her efforts. I also never said it was a hopeless cause and in fact encourage good parenting as a first line of defense. Knock off the bullshit and try responding to somethings that I actually DID say.

 

[dilloduck]

Gee and here I was thinking that's what parents were supposed to do! :shocked: Not to mention enjoying our family time together...

Right--and we need to get all those porn filters yanked from school computers too huh?

 

[insein]

Right--and we need to get all those porn filters yanked from school computers too huh?

Sigh. You come out of left field with these things.

 

[MissileMan]

Right--and we need to get all those porn filters yanked from school computers too huh?

WTF are you talking about. The V-chip and PC filters are tools for parents to use to control what their kids see. It is incumbent on the parents to use those tools however. You seem to be saying that in your ideal world, you and others who share the same taste in entertainment would render the V-chip and PC filters obsolete by choosing what we all get to watch. If it's all the same to you, no thanks!

 

[Annie]

Right--and we need to get all those porn filters yanked from school computers too huh?

Actually, yes. I think it better to set limits and enforce them. Not to mention teaching our kids to be aware and safe. Would you rather they not know that danger is out there? With or without your kinds of censorship, the dangers will still be there.