Stronger Requirements to Register and Vote?

[Zander]

Proof of name, address, and citizenship when registering seems reasonable to me ........

What? You want felons to vote?

Yeah. If they have served the time, they have paid their debt to society.

Other wise we could identify the felons somehow......Would a large "F" burnt into their forehead be ok?

 

[Foxfyre]

and no matter what you do, you will always have voter fraud.

True, there are going to be people who find their way around any system. Which means the more intrusive or complicated the laws, the fewer people will vote - but the fraud will happen anyway. Bad balance if you ask me. I see nothing wrong with proving ID and citizenship when you register, and showing ID at a designated polling place. That's enough due diligence.

On a side note tomorow is primary day in PA and I'll be working the polls again, I'll let you know how many illegals and dead people we catch and how many dummies get stuffed in the ballot box.

I work the polls on occasion here too, and sometimes it goes smoothly and sometimes not so smoothly. Before the rules and laws loosened up so much, anybody not on the 'list' that was finalized seven or more days before election day was not allowed to vote. So you had to make the effort to be sure you were registered far enough in advance to get on the 'list', you had to know what precinct you were in, and you had to figure out where that precinct voted on election day.

Now voters can register anywhere and everywhere with or without identification, and if they aren't on the 'list' they are handed a provisional ballot to complete to be checked out later. And voting goes on up to three weeks this way.

So after the polls finally close, it takes weeks to sort it all out. And if it appears that the election is very close, it is amazing how a ballot box that somehow got misplaced before is magically produced and those votes all too frequently put somebody over the top. And on the very rare occasions we have requested an absentee ballot, we have received as many as three ballots in the mail. We only use one, but it makes me wonder how many more see opportunity here. . . .

There has to be a better way.

 

[goldcatt]

and no matter what you do, you will always have voter fraud.

True, there are going to be people who find their way around any system. Which means the more intrusive or complicated the laws, the fewer people will vote - but the fraud will happen anyway. Bad balance if you ask me. I see nothing wrong with proving ID and citizenship when you register, and showing ID at a designated polling place. That's enough due diligence.

On a side note tomorow is primary day in PA and I'll be working the polls again, I'll let you know how many illegals and dead people we catch and how many dummies get stuffed in the ballot box.

I work the polls on occasion here too, and sometimes it goes smoothly and sometimes not so smoothly. Before the rules and laws loosened up so much, anybody not on the 'list' that was finalized seven or more days before election day was not allowed to vote. So you had to make the effort to be sure you were registered far enough in advance to get on the 'list', you had to know what precinct you were in, and you had to figure out where that precinct voted on election day.

Now voters can register anywhere and everywhere with or without identification, and if they aren't on the 'list' they are handed a provisional ballot to complete to be checked out later. And voting goes on up to three weeks this way.

So after the polls finally close, it takes weeks to sort it all out. And if it appears that the election is very close, it is amazing how a ballot box that somehow got misplaced before is magically produced and those votes all too frequently put somebody over the top. And on the very rare occasions we have requested an absentee ballot, we have received as many as three ballots in the mail. We only use one, but it makes me wonder how many more see opportunity here. . . .

There has to be a better way.

I've done it for a few years, I had quit but one of the other women had surgery and I got called since it was last minute and I knew what I was doing. I should have said no.

It's not so bad here anymore, it's a small town and everyone knows everyone. The rolls don't change all that much either. Not much monkey business, if any. Most of that is with the absentee ballots as always, but they've tightened up the rules for those here to the point of insanity. If there's a problem, a provisional ballot is filled out on site. The new machines make it nice, no more sitting and counting! And ours have a paper trail. I can't really complain, for this kind of work it'll be an easy day.

 

[Zona]

Discussions of voter registration fraud and voter fraud has been cropping up on several threads and I think this needs its own topic.

Should registration and voting be made as easy as possible? Or would making it more proactive result in a better informed, more motivated electorate?

Does residency requirements and requiring photo ID improve integrity in the system or does it disenfranchise citizens?

Should some minimum standards be established to ensure people are competent to vote?

What are your thoughts.

If you are an American citizen who does not have a record, you should be allowed to vote. the last time this country tried to stop AMERICANS from voting, it didn't turn out too well.

i say, pass out voter registrations at gas stations, supermarkets or even wal mart for that matter.

That is what makes america great...being a citizen and being allowed to vote and not worrying about a certain group taking that away because they didn't like the way the last election went.

 

[Gem]

I have always been a bit concerned/wary when I think of this quote, often attributed to Benjamin Franklin: "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic"

I think that perhaps, if we are going to talk seriously about changing the requirements for voting - we should consider letting only those who have "paid into the system" with taxes vote for the way those monies should be spent.

 

[kyzr]

and no matter what you do, you will always have voter fraud.

Horrible attitude. What happened to "One man - One vote"? Its up to the police to crack down on voter fraud. No more "Mickey & Minnie Mouse" voting 100x. I'm even up for using SS# as part of the ID to vote. Any duplicate votes need to get scrubbed and ICE called to haul the perps away.

 

[rightwinger]

and no matter what you do, you will always have voter fraud.

Horrible attitude. What happened to "One man - One vote"? Its up to the police to crack down on voter fraud. No more "Mickey & Minnie Mouse" voting 100x. I'm even up for using SS# as part of the ID to vote. Any duplicate votes need to get scrubbed and ICE called to haul the perps away.

We could even have microchips inserted in everyones brain...then they could just read your thoughts

 

[Foxfyre]

If you are an American citizen who does not have a record, you should be allowed to vote. the last time this country tried to stop AMERICANS from voting, it didn't turn out too well.

i say, pass out voter registrations at gas stations, supermarkets or even wal mart for that matter.

That is what makes america great...being a citizen and being allowed to vote and not worrying about a certain group taking that away because they didn't like the way the last election went.

So you don't care whether a person lives and works in your state when s/he votes in your state? Do you think just saying he or she is a citizen and is who s/he says s/he is and lives where s/he says s/he lives should be enough to let him/her register? There should be no minimum residency requirement?

Those seem to be the most important items to most of the members who have contributed to the poll so far.

 

[kyzr]

and no matter what you do, you will always have voter fraud.

Horrible attitude. What happened to "One man - One vote"? Its up to the police to crack down on voter fraud. No more "Mickey & Minnie Mouse" voting 100x. I'm even up for using SS# as part of the ID to vote. Any duplicate votes need to get scrubbed and ICE called to haul the perps away.

We could even have microchips inserted in everyones brain...then they could just read your thoughts

What do microchips (aka "digital angels") have to do with ensuring honest elections? I prefer just using SS#s, but if you insist, only digital angels allowed to be here in the US, okay.

 

[goldcatt]

If you are an American citizen who does not have a record, you should be allowed to vote. the last time this country tried to stop AMERICANS from voting, it didn't turn out too well.

i say, pass out voter registrations at gas stations, supermarkets or even wal mart for that matter.

That is what makes america great...being a citizen and being allowed to vote and not worrying about a certain group taking that away because they didn't like the way the last election went.

So you don't care whether a person lives and works in your state when s/he votes in your state? Do you think just saying he or she is a citizen and is who s/he says s/he is and lives where s/he says s/he lives should be enough to let him/her register? There should be no minimum residency requirement?

Those seem to be the most important items to most of the members who have contributed to the poll so far.

To say a person must both live and work in my state, no. Lots of people live in areas where they work across state lines - Philly comes to mind first and foremost. People work there who live in NJ and DE, and people who live there work in those states. Voting is and should be based solely on residence.

There are also plenty of people who move from state to state. As long as they move in on time to meet the normal registration deadline, why should they have to have lived there a certain length of time? Voting is an incidence of citizenship, not residency or domicile.

That said, taking a copy of your lease or something else with the address over to the courthouse or the DMV when you register isn't too much to ask. It just shouldn't matter how old it is.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Discussions of voter registration fraud and voter fraud has been cropping up on several threads and I think this needs its own topic.

Should registration and voting be made as easy as possible? Or would making it more proactive result in a better informed, more motivated electorate?

Does residency requirements and requiring photo ID improve integrity in the system or does it disenfranchise citizens?

Should some minimum standards be established to ensure people are competent to vote?

What are your thoughts.

Being a strict constitutionalist and knowing that the Founding Fathers knew what was best, I say take away the vote from a majority of Americans.

 

[Foxfyre]

If you are an American citizen who does not have a record, you should be allowed to vote. the last time this country tried to stop AMERICANS from voting, it didn't turn out too well.

i say, pass out voter registrations at gas stations, supermarkets or even wal mart for that matter.

That is what makes america great...being a citizen and being allowed to vote and not worrying about a certain group taking that away because they didn't like the way the last election went.

So you don't care whether a person lives and works in your state when s/he votes in your state? Do you think just saying he or she is a citizen and is who s/he says s/he is and lives where s/he says s/he lives should be enough to let him/her register? There should be no minimum residency requirement?

Those seem to be the most important items to most of the members who have contributed to the poll so far.

To say a person must both live and work in my state, no. Lots of people live in areas where they work across state lines - Philly comes to mind first and foremost. People work there who live in NJ and DE, and people who live there work in those states. Voting is and should be based solely on residence.

There are also plenty of people who move from state to state. As long as they move in on time to meet the normal registration deadline, why should they have to have lived there a certain length of time? Voting is an incidence of citizenship, not residency or domicile.

That said, taking a copy of your lease or something else with the address over to the courthouse or the DMV when you register isn't too much to ask. It just shouldn't matter how old it is.

Okay as I am now trying to retire from a job that on occasion spans three states, I'll give you the work thing.

But only those who have established residency in a state should vote in that state and that needs to be iron clad to keep folks from registering in multiple state and just moving by the busload from poll to poll. Some of our members who live in large metropolitan areas know of what I speak.

And I think that residency needs to be established far enough in advance that there is time to actually put folks on 'the list'. The only way a person should get a provisional ballot is if they have a certificate of registration in hand that shows they met the deadline or whatever. Otherwise, I can't believe having thousands of provisional ballots cast in every election produces honest elections.

 

[goldcatt]

So you don't care whether a person lives and works in your state when s/he votes in your state? Do you think just saying he or she is a citizen and is who s/he says s/he is and lives where s/he says s/he lives should be enough to let him/her register? There should be no minimum residency requirement?

Those seem to be the most important items to most of the members who have contributed to the poll so far.

To say a person must both live and work in my state, no. Lots of people live in areas where they work across state lines - Philly comes to mind first and foremost. People work there who live in NJ and DE, and people who live there work in those states. Voting is and should be based solely on residence.

There are also plenty of people who move from state to state. As long as they move in on time to meet the normal registration deadline, why should they have to have lived there a certain length of time? Voting is an incidence of citizenship, not residency or domicile.

That said, taking a copy of your lease or something else with the address over to the courthouse or the DMV when you register isn't too much to ask. It just shouldn't matter how old it is.

Okay as I am now trying to retire from a job that on occasion spans three states, I'll give you the work thing.

But only those who have established residency in a state should vote in that state and that needs to be iron clad to keep folks from registering in multiple state and just moving by the busload from poll to poll. Some of our members who live in large metropolitan areas know of what I speak.

And I think that residency needs to be established far enough in advance that there is time to actually put folks on 'the list'. The only way a person should get a provisional ballot is if they have a certificate of registration in hand that shows they met the deadline or whatever. Otherwise, I can't believe having thousands of provisional ballots cast in every election produces honest elections.

I understand what you're saying, but if the State is doing it right the regular registration deadline is established specifically so they have time to put everyone on the rolls. If it's not enough time they need to change the regular registration deadline, not punish people for moving across state lines.

I don't like provisional ballots either, but no matter how much time you have to make up the list clerical errors will happen. In that case, the provisional ballot is better than no ballot at all when it's not the voter's screwup. They should be a lot more rare than they are, I'll give you that.

 

[Foxfyre]

To say a person must both live and work in my state, no. Lots of people live in areas where they work across state lines - Philly comes to mind first and foremost. People work there who live in NJ and DE, and people who live there work in those states. Voting is and should be based solely on residence.

There are also plenty of people who move from state to state. As long as they move in on time to meet the normal registration deadline, why should they have to have lived there a certain length of time? Voting is an incidence of citizenship, not residency or domicile.

That said, taking a copy of your lease or something else with the address over to the courthouse or the DMV when you register isn't too much to ask. It just shouldn't matter how old it is.

Okay as I am now trying to retire from a job that on occasion spans three states, I'll give you the work thing.

But only those who have established residency in a state should vote in that state and that needs to be iron clad to keep folks from registering in multiple state and just moving by the busload from poll to poll. Some of our members who live in large metropolitan areas know of what I speak.

And I think that residency needs to be established far enough in advance that there is time to actually put folks on 'the list'. The only way a person should get a provisional ballot is if they have a certificate of registration in hand that shows they met the deadline or whatever. Otherwise, I can't believe having thousands of provisional ballots cast in every election produces honest elections.

I understand what you're saying, but if the State is doing it right the regular registration deadline is established specifically so they have time to put everyone on the rolls. If it's not enough time they need to change the regular registration deadline, not punish people for moving across state lines.

I don't like provisional ballots either, but no matter how much time you have to make up the list clerical errors will happen. In that case, the provisional ballot is better than no ballot at all when it's not the voter's screwup. They should be a lot more rare than they are, I'll give you that.

Hmmm. Well there has to be a way to make the process a lot more secure and give it more certain integrity without disenfranchising the clerical errors. But if we keep thinking about it and throwing out concepts, a solution will be found. I don't think any poison exists for which no antidote is possible.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Vote at your designated polling place

No absentee ballots? Retarded.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Definately we need to check Photo ID's of all voters and also dye finger to prevent revoting. Dying fingers stop fraud in third world countries, and with all of this illegal immigration America is quickly becoming one. I don't see why doing this would be bad. I know the liberals will scream that the poor don't have an ID but they mysteriouslly have this missing ID to cash their aid check.

Not all the poor receive aid checks. Most don't you faggot.

 

[goldcatt]

Okay as I am now trying to retire from a job that on occasion spans three states, I'll give you the work thing.

But only those who have established residency in a state should vote in that state and that needs to be iron clad to keep folks from registering in multiple state and just moving by the busload from poll to poll. Some of our members who live in large metropolitan areas know of what I speak.

And I think that residency needs to be established far enough in advance that there is time to actually put folks on 'the list'. The only way a person should get a provisional ballot is if they have a certificate of registration in hand that shows they met the deadline or whatever. Otherwise, I can't believe having thousands of provisional ballots cast in every election produces honest elections.

I understand what you're saying, but if the State is doing it right the regular registration deadline is established specifically so they have time to put everyone on the rolls. If it's not enough time they need to change the regular registration deadline, not punish people for moving across state lines.

I don't like provisional ballots either, but no matter how much time you have to make up the list clerical errors will happen. In that case, the provisional ballot is better than no ballot at all when it's not the voter's screwup. They should be a lot more rare than they are, I'll give you that.

Hmmm. Well there has to be a way to make the process a lot more secure and give it more certain integrity without disenfranchising the clerical errors. But if we keep thinking about it and throwing out concepts, a solution will be found. I don't think any poison exists for which no antidote is possible.

If it can be done without discouraging or punishing legitimate voters, yes. But I stand by my first post on this thread. No matter what system you put in place somebody will find a way around it. Do what you can to limit fraud by all means, but it's better to have as many legitimate people voting as possible to dilute the fraudulent votes than to try to make fraud impossible. There's always somebody that little bit smarter and a lot less scrupulous than you and I.

 

[JWBooth]

Needs another option:

Refuse to endorse organised thievery with a vote.

 

[Foxfyre]

Needs another option:

Refuse to endorse organised thievery with a vote.

Can you (or anybody) enlarge on this one a bit JW? I thought some of the suggestions in the poll did address this, but you've really hit at the heart of the problem and why it is more serious than the occasional dead guy voting.

 

[boedicca]

To register to vote, should provide documentation to prove that they are legal citizens. To vote, they should provide valid ID to prove that they are the person whose right to vote they are exercising. I'd also like to see English made the official language. No alternate language ballots.