Strom Thurmond...Jesse Helms...Where Was the Reverence Then??

[Oddball]

Well aside from being an old fart I think Kennedy passed, what, how many pieces of legislation? More than Thurmond, and he got a long a lot better than the guy who was known as "Senator No."

So many righties and psuedolibertarians like yourself will try to trivialize everything Kennedy has done in the Senate but agree with him or not he got a lot more shit done than the average president, let alone senator.

Big whoop.

I'l take a hundred "Senator No" types over a bloviating bellicose Kent Dorfman, who pretends that he's doing the whole world a big fat favor with his every proclamation.

 

[Political Junky]

IM not-in-the-least HO, neither Thurmond nor Helms really deserved to have had their wrinkled up old butts parked in the Senate for anywhere near as long as they were.

Thurmond was a segregationationist-turned-neocon, and the only thing I can recall Helms doing of any relative value is whistling Dixie when he was in an elevator with Maxine "Pickle Puss" Waters.

While Three Martini Ted used his name to evade service in Korea, Thurmond was a Normandy vet and bona-fide ass kicker:



Strom Thurmond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aside from the aforementioned encounter, Helms was the longest serving elected Senator in NC, and every bit the kind of hardassed party man that the hack from Hyannis was.

Where were the leftists in media and elsewhere when those old "loins" kicked the bucket??

To repeat....Fuck Ted Kennedy.

Dude, what you think is totally irrelevant to anything, so do yourself a favor and wander away somewhere and stare at a hole in the floor. Strom Thurmond was Mr. Dixiecrat, a bum, and a general all-around under-the-white-sheet racist. You don't like all this? Kiss my butt. Take it elsewhere.

Ah. there's the humanitarian liberal reverence we were looking for. Give Ringo a prize, Dude.

Poor cons, demand respect for their own, while uttering the most vile things about those they disagree with.

 

[Oddball]

WRONG-O!!!!!

I'm demanding nothing at all. Just pointing out the glaring differences in covereage for the deaths of long-serving Seators with (R)s by their names and the media leg-humping festival for Senator Salty Dog.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Xenophon]

I know a man who enlisted in the Marines, then the Navy Medical Corp where he was validictorian,

The Navy isn't a college, you don't get to be 'valedictorian' of the Navy.

Where do you people come up with this stupid shit?

 

[JakeStarkey]

WRONG-O!!!!!

I'm demanding nothing at all. Just pointing out the glaring differences in covereage for the deaths of long-serving Seators with (R)s by their names and the media leg-humping festival for Senator Salty Dog.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Sure ya are, Dude. Two hack southern racist Rs and one liberal D who actually did some good things in the Senate. Tuff luck. That's the breaks, buddy.

 

[Oddball]

Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment.

 

[jillian]

Speaking of verbal assaults of SCOTUS nominees and justices, have you forgotten Tanqueray Ted's verbal lambasting of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas so soon?

Thomas wasn't qualified to sit on the supreme court and was only nominated to give the finger to the senate for rejecting Bork.

Bork had no understanding of stare decisis. He also wasn't appropriate for the Court. That said, in retrospect, the senate probably should have said...well, the president was elected...and elections have consequences.... including wingnuts and incompetents like Bork and Thomas.

The military record was made in comparison with Kennedy and nobody else. In one of the other threads, I compared his dubious record -where he used his family name to avoid Korean service

like Bush did getting out of going to Vietnam and learning to fly an obsolete plane?

 

[elvis]

Dude, what you think is totally irrelevant to anything, so do yourself a favor and wander away somewhere and stare at a hole in the floor. Strom Thurmond was Mr. Dixiecrat, a bum, and a general all-around under-the-white-sheet racist. You don't like all this? Kiss my butt. Take it elsewhere.

Ah. there's the humanitarian liberal reverence we were looking for. Give Ringo a prize, Dude.

Poor cons, demand respect for their own, while uttering the most vile things about those they disagree with.

point out the vile things I said about Teddy, smartass. and me thinking he should have been dealt with harsher for Mary Jo doesn't count.

 

[Sinatra]

Now, to get the thread back on track, where was all the reverence from the left for Hems and Thurmond?

July 1, 2003

Strom Thurmond was the only man whom I knew who in a literal sense lived in three distinct and separate periods of American history, and lived what would have been considered a full life in each of those periods, particularly in his beloved South.

Born into an era of essentially unchallenged and unexamined mores of the South, reaching his full maturity in a era of fully challenged and critically examined bankrupt mores of his beloved South, and living out his final three decades in a South that had formally rejected its past on race -- in each of these stages, my observation -- and I was only with him the last three decades -- Strom represented exactly where he came from.

There's an old hymn that includes these lyrics: "Once to every man and nation comes the moment to decide/ In the strife of truth with falsehood, for the good or evil side/ Then it is the brave man chooses while the coward stands aside"...

I went to the Senate emboldened, angered and outraged at age 29 about the treatment of African-Americans in this country, what everything that for a period in his life Strom had represented...

Strom knew America was changing, and that there was a lot he didn't understand about that change. Much of that change challenged many of his long-held views. But he also saw his beloved South Carolina and the people of South Carolina changing as well, and he knew the time had come to change himself.

But I believe the change came to him easily. I believe he welcomed it, because I watched others of his era fight that change and never ultimately change.

It would be humbling to think that I was among those who had some influence on his decision, but I know better. The place in which I work is a majestic place. If you're there long enough, it has an impact on you. You cannot if you respect those with whom you serve fail to understand how deeply they feel about things differently than you. And over time, I believe it has an affect on you.

This is a man, who in 1947, the New York Times ran a lead editorial saying, "Strom Thurmond, Hope of the South," and talked about how he had set up reading programs, get better books for separate, but equal schools. This is a man who was opposed to the poll tax. This is am an who I watched vote for the extension of the Voting Rights Act. This is a man who I watched vote for the Martin Luther King Holiday.

And it's fairly easy to say today that that was pure political expediency, but I choose to believe otherwise. I choose to believe that Strom Thurmond was doing what few do once they pass the age of 50: He was continuing to grow, continuing to change.

His offices were next door to mine in the Russell Building, or more appropriately mine were next to his. And over the years, I remember seeing a lot change, including the number of African- Americans on his staff and African-Americans who sought his help.

For the man who will see, time heals, time changes and time leads him to truth. But only a special man like Strom would have the courage to accept it, the grace to acknowledge it and the humility in the face of lasting enmity and mistrust to pursue it until the end.

There's a personal lesson that comes from a page in American political history that is yet unwritten, but nevertheless, it resonates in my heart. I mentioned it on the floor of the Senate the other day. It's a lesson of redemption that I think applies today, and I think Strom, as he listens, will appreciate it.

When I first arrived in the Senate, in 1972, I met with John Stennis, another old Southern senator, who became my friend. We sat at the other end of this gigantic, grand mahogany table he used as his desk that had been the desk of Richard Russell's. It was a table upon which the Southern Manifesto was signed, I am told. The year was 1972.

Senator Stennis patted the leather chair next to him when I walked in to pay my respects as a new young senator, which was the order of the day. And he said, Sit down, sit down, sit down here, son. And those who serve with him know he always talked like this.

And he looked at me and he said, Son, what made you run for the Senate? And like a darn fool I told him the exact truth before I could of it, I said, Civil rights, sir. And as soon as I did I could feel the beads of perspiration pop out of my head and get that funny feeling. And he looked at me and said, Good, good, good. And that was the end of the conversation. (LAUGHTER)

Well, 18 years later, after us having shared a hospital suite for three months at Walter Reed and after him having tried to help me in another pursuit I had, we'd become friends.

I saw him sitting behind that same table 18 years later, only this time in a wheelchair. His leg had been amputated because of cancer. And I was going to look at offices, because in my seniority his office was available as he was leaving.

I went in and sat down and he looked at me as if it were yesterday and he said, Sit down, Joe, sit down, and tapped that chair. And he said something that startled me. He said, Remember the first time you came to see me, Joe? And I shook my head, I didn't remember. And he leaned forward and he recited the story.

I said to him, I was a pretty smart young fellow, wasn't I, Mr. Chairman? He said, Joe, I wanted to tell you something then that I'm going to tell you now. You are going to take my office, aren't you? And I said, Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.

And he ran his hand back and forth across that mahogany table in a loving way, and he said, You see this table, Joe? This is the God's truth. He said, You see this table?

And I said, Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. He said, This table was the flagship of the Confederacy from 1954 to 1968. He said, We sat here, most of us from the Deep South, the old Confederacy, and we planned the demise of the civil rights movement.

Then he looked at me and said, And now it's time, it's time that this table go from the possession of a man against civil rights to a man who is for civil rights.

And I was stunned. And he said, One more thing, Joe, he said. The civil rights movement did more to free the white man than the black man.

And I looked at him, I didn't know what he meant, and he said in only John Stennis fashion, he said, It freed my soul, it freed my soul.

Strom Thurmond's soul is free today. His soul is free. The Bible says, Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow, come now and let us reason together, though your sins may be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.

Strom, today there are no longer any issues to debate, there's only peace, a patch of common ground and the many memories that you've left behind.

- Joe Biden, delivering eulogy for Strom Thurmond.

I was not aware of this speech from Joe Biden. What a wonderful story.

Thank you for sharing.

And to the original point of making much of the passing of Kennedy - it is an appropriate question. Kennedy was a Senator of many years. A man of far fewer. A child of great privilege and wealth, who verbalized a desire to help those in need, while maintaining a system in place to keep those people in need - not a hand up mind you, but simply a hand out. He embodied the modern liberal era of America and as such, is being given much devotion by the equally liberal media. So be it - most of America shrugs at the passing of this Senator...

 

[DiveCon]

Speaking of verbal assaults of SCOTUS nominees and justices, have you forgotten Tanqueray Ted's verbal lambasting of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas so soon?

Thomas wasn't qualified to sit on the supreme court and was only nominated to give the finger to the senate for rejecting Bork.

Bork had no understanding of stare decisis. He also wasn't appropriate for the Court. That said, in retrospect, the senate probably should have said...well, the president was elected...and elections have consequences.... including wingnuts and incompetents like Bork and Thomas.

The military record was made in comparison with Kennedy and nobody else. In one of the other threads, I compared his dubious record -where he used his family name to avoid Korean service

like Bush did getting out of going to Vietnam and learning to fly an obsolete plane?

sorry, but the F-102 and the unit he joined, were IN Vietnam at the time he joined
so that dog dont hunt

 

[Sweet Willy]

Now, to get the thread back on track, where was all the reverence from the left for Hems and Thurmond?

July 1, 2003

Strom Thurmond was the only man whom I knew who in a literal sense lived in three distinct and separate periods of American history, and lived what would have been considered a full life in each of those periods, particularly in his beloved South.

Born into an era of essentially unchallenged and unexamined mores of the South, reaching his full maturity in a era of fully challenged and critically examined bankrupt mores of his beloved South, and living out his final three decades in a South that had formally rejected its past on race -- in each of these stages, my observation -- and I was only with him the last three decades -- Strom represented exactly where he came from.

There's an old hymn that includes these lyrics: "Once to every man and nation comes the moment to decide/ In the strife of truth with falsehood, for the good or evil side/ Then it is the brave man chooses while the coward stands aside"...

I went to the Senate emboldened, angered and outraged at age 29 about the treatment of African-Americans in this country, what everything that for a period in his life Strom had represented...

Strom knew America was changing, and that there was a lot he didn't understand about that change. Much of that change challenged many of his long-held views. But he also saw his beloved South Carolina and the people of South Carolina changing as well, and he knew the time had come to change himself.

But I believe the change came to him easily. I believe he welcomed it, because I watched others of his era fight that change and never ultimately change.

It would be humbling to think that I was among those who had some influence on his decision, but I know better. The place in which I work is a majestic place. If you're there long enough, it has an impact on you. You cannot if you respect those with whom you serve fail to understand how deeply they feel about things differently than you. And over time, I believe it has an affect on you.

This is a man, who in 1947, the New York Times ran a lead editorial saying, "Strom Thurmond, Hope of the South," and talked about how he had set up reading programs, get better books for separate, but equal schools. This is a man who was opposed to the poll tax. This is am an who I watched vote for the extension of the Voting Rights Act. This is a man who I watched vote for the Martin Luther King Holiday.

And it's fairly easy to say today that that was pure political expediency, but I choose to believe otherwise. I choose to believe that Strom Thurmond was doing what few do once they pass the age of 50: He was continuing to grow, continuing to change.

His offices were next door to mine in the Russell Building, or more appropriately mine were next to his. And over the years, I remember seeing a lot change, including the number of African- Americans on his staff and African-Americans who sought his help.

For the man who will see, time heals, time changes and time leads him to truth. But only a special man like Strom would have the courage to accept it, the grace to acknowledge it and the humility in the face of lasting enmity and mistrust to pursue it until the end.

There's a personal lesson that comes from a page in American political history that is yet unwritten, but nevertheless, it resonates in my heart. I mentioned it on the floor of the Senate the other day. It's a lesson of redemption that I think applies today, and I think Strom, as he listens, will appreciate it.

When I first arrived in the Senate, in 1972, I met with John Stennis, another old Southern senator, who became my friend. We sat at the other end of this gigantic, grand mahogany table he used as his desk that had been the desk of Richard Russell's. It was a table upon which the Southern Manifesto was signed, I am told. The year was 1972.

Senator Stennis patted the leather chair next to him when I walked in to pay my respects as a new young senator, which was the order of the day. And he said, Sit down, sit down, sit down here, son. And those who serve with him know he always talked like this.

And he looked at me and he said, Son, what made you run for the Senate? And like a darn fool I told him the exact truth before I could of it, I said, Civil rights, sir. And as soon as I did I could feel the beads of perspiration pop out of my head and get that funny feeling. And he looked at me and said, Good, good, good. And that was the end of the conversation. (LAUGHTER)

Well, 18 years later, after us having shared a hospital suite for three months at Walter Reed and after him having tried to help me in another pursuit I had, we'd become friends.

I saw him sitting behind that same table 18 years later, only this time in a wheelchair. His leg had been amputated because of cancer. And I was going to look at offices, because in my seniority his office was available as he was leaving.

I went in and sat down and he looked at me as if it were yesterday and he said, Sit down, Joe, sit down, and tapped that chair. And he said something that startled me. He said, Remember the first time you came to see me, Joe? And I shook my head, I didn't remember. And he leaned forward and he recited the story.

I said to him, I was a pretty smart young fellow, wasn't I, Mr. Chairman? He said, Joe, I wanted to tell you something then that I'm going to tell you now. You are going to take my office, aren't you? And I said, Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.

And he ran his hand back and forth across that mahogany table in a loving way, and he said, You see this table, Joe? This is the God's truth. He said, You see this table?

And I said, Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. He said, This table was the flagship of the Confederacy from 1954 to 1968. He said, We sat here, most of us from the Deep South, the old Confederacy, and we planned the demise of the civil rights movement.

Then he looked at me and said, And now it's time, it's time that this table go from the possession of a man against civil rights to a man who is for civil rights.

And I was stunned. And he said, One more thing, Joe, he said. The civil rights movement did more to free the white man than the black man.

And I looked at him, I didn't know what he meant, and he said in only John Stennis fashion, he said, It freed my soul, it freed my soul.

Strom Thurmond's soul is free today. His soul is free. The Bible says, Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow, come now and let us reason together, though your sins may be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.

Strom, today there are no longer any issues to debate, there's only peace, a patch of common ground and the many memories that you've left behind.

- Joe Biden, delivering eulogy for Strom Thurmond.

I was not aware of this speech from Joe Biden. What a wonderful story.

Thank you for sharing.

And to the original point of making much of the passing of Kennedy - it is an appropriate question. Kennedy was a Senator of many years. A man of far fewer. A child of great privilege and wealth, who verbalized a desire to help those in need, while maintaining a system in place to keep those people in need - not a hand up mind you, but simply a hand out. He embodied the modern liberal era of America and as such, is being given much devotion by the equally liberal media. So be it - most of America shrugs at the passing of this Senator...

I paid my respects to both Jessie and Strom at their passing. I despised both men's politics but each served their constituents well. If you represent a bunch of racist rednecks....welll.....good job fellas.

 

[elvis]

Speaking of verbal assaults of SCOTUS nominees and justices, have you forgotten Tanqueray Ted's verbal lambasting of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas so soon?

Thomas wasn't qualified to sit on the supreme court and was only nominated to give the finger to the senate for rejecting Bork.

Bork had no understanding of stare decisis. He also wasn't appropriate for the Court. That said, in retrospect, the senate probably should have said...well, the president was elected...and elections have consequences.... including wingnuts and incompetents like Bork and Thomas.

The military record was made in comparison with Kennedy and nobody else. In one of the other threads, I compared his dubious record -where he used his family name to avoid Korean service

like Bush did getting out of going to Vietnam and learning to fly an obsolete plane?

sorry, but the F-102 and the unit he joined, were IN Vietnam at the time he joined
so that dog dont hunt

Is that a Gergenism?