Stop whining about making less money you fools

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Low ballers are folks who charge less than the going rate, which lowers the market value of the services they provide, screwing both them all other businesses like them. Whether or not they're playing by the rules to get there, is another matter entirely.

In some cases maybe but for the most part this is a bullshit excuse for not being competitive. Being able to read the market is far more important than being fixated on an arbitrary dollar value.
I am often told I'm not the lowest bid but I'm hired anyhow on reputation. So the "low baller" loses out more often than not in my experience.

It's wanting to sustain the $80 / hr or whatever that plumbers in the region are charging, and not have some asshole fuck up the value perception by charging only $20 / hr.

Noodle on that; maybe you'll grow a funtioning brain cell.

Like I said. You don't know what you're talking about.

You called me a low baller so lets dig into your claim.

The average plumber around here gets about 125 an hour.
For a new shower valve installation my charge starts at 150 and it takes on average 30 minutes.
Roman tub valves I get 250 and it takes about an hour or just over.
Vessel installation I get 60 bucks and it takes 20 minites.
Sink faucets I get 125 and the time is also short.
Tub installation I charge half the price of the tub depending on the model.
Extra shower heads or body valves 80 bucks and it takes about 15 minutes
Custom shower pans a flat rate between 300 and 500 depending on size
Heated floor 10 sq ft to run water or electrical lines.


You don't know me or my business. You don't know the market value in my region for the services I offer. So when I say I've offered deep discounts and you call me a low baller you just look foolish.

Just tuck your tail and slither out fool

 

[Koios]

In some cases maybe but for the most part this is a bullshit excuse for not being competitive. Being able to read the market is far more important than being fixated on an arbitrary dollar value.
I am often told I'm not the lowest bid but I'm hired anyhow on reputation. So the "low baller" loses out more often than not in my experience.

It's wanting to sustain the $80 / hr or whatever that plumbers in the region are charging, and not have some asshole fuck up the value perception by charging only $20 / hr.

Noodle on that; maybe you'll grow a funtioning brain cell.

Like I said. You don't know what you're talking about.

You called me a low baller so lets dig into your claim.

The average plumber around here gets about 125 an hour.
For a new shower valve installation my charge starts at 150 and it takes on average 30 minutes.
Roman tub valves I get 250 and it takes about an hour or just over.
Vessel installation I get 60 bucks and it takes 20 minites.
Sink faucets I get 125 and the time is also short.
Tub installation I charge half the price of the tub depending on the model.
Extra shower heads or body valves 80 bucks and it takes about 15 minutes
Custom shower pans a flat rate between 300 and 500 depending on size
Heated floor 10 sq ft to run water or electrical lines.


You don't know me or my business. You don't know the market value in my region for the services I offer. So when I say I've offered deep discounts and you call me a low baller you just look foolish.

Just tuck your tail and slither out fool

When?

 

[Dick Tuck]

For some the logic of how to stay in business through tough times without firing their help is a mystery. Funny how not once have I mentioned politics in this thread and yet the left still find reasons to bitch and moan. Guess I should just fire everyone, close the doors and get on the govt teet. Then the left will cheer....

Fire your labor and stay in business then. For some on the right, the concept of appreciating the leverage that employees bring is a mystery. I call them the Too Stupid To Be In Business set.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Have you seen a more impoverish city than Detroit?

California has the highest poverty rate in the nation.

California Poverty Rate Highest In Nation Based On New Census Department Figures

But Cali is a 'blue' state and to include it in their little table would not support the intended narrative that only conservative, 'red' states have impoverished citizens.

So you don't see any factual errors in the graphic.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's wanting to sustain the $80 / hr or whatever that plumbers in the region are charging, and not have some asshole fuck up the value perception by charging only $20 / hr.

Noodle on that; maybe you'll grow a funtioning brain cell.

Like I said. You don't know what you're talking about.

You called me a low baller so lets dig into your claim.

The average plumber around here gets about 125 an hour.
For a new shower valve installation my charge starts at 150 and it takes on average 30 minutes.
Roman tub valves I get 250 and it takes about an hour or just over.
Vessel installation I get 60 bucks and it takes 20 minites.
Sink faucets I get 125 and the time is also short.
Tub installation I charge half the price of the tub depending on the model.
Extra shower heads or body valves 80 bucks and it takes about 15 minutes
Custom shower pans a flat rate between 300 and 500 depending on size
Heated floor 10 sq ft to run water or electrical lines.


You don't know me or my business. You don't know the market value in my region for the services I offer. So when I say I've offered deep discounts and you call me a low baller you just look foolish.

Just tuck your tail and slither out fool

When?

Someone did umpteen posts ago. I assumed it was you since you carried on the term. A term that was pointlessly used to begin with.

My apologies but my overall point stands

 

[Koios]

Like I said. You don't know what you're talking about.

You called me a low baller so lets dig into your claim.

The average plumber around here gets about 125 an hour.
For a new shower valve installation my charge starts at 150 and it takes on average 30 minutes.
Roman tub valves I get 250 and it takes about an hour or just over.
Vessel installation I get 60 bucks and it takes 20 minites.
Sink faucets I get 125 and the time is also short.
Tub installation I charge half the price of the tub depending on the model.
Extra shower heads or body valves 80 bucks and it takes about 15 minutes
Custom shower pans a flat rate between 300 and 500 depending on size
Heated floor 10 sq ft to run water or electrical lines.


You don't know me or my business. You don't know the market value in my region for the services I offer. So when I say I've offered deep discounts and you call me a low baller you just look foolish.

Just tuck your tail and slither out fool

When?

Someone did umpteen posts ago. I assumed it was you since you carried on the term. A term that was pointlessly used to begin with.

My apologies but my overall point stands

Which one? This: 'Just tuck your tail and slither out fool'?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Koios it doesn't matter. I've made my points in this thread and I've grown tired arguing over the semantics of this or that word or phrase.

The bottom line is we as individuals are responsible for our own futures including our place of employment. Work hard, pay attention in school and you run a good chance of going far in life. Sit back and fuck off then go crying to everyone else that your job sucks.....

 

[Cammmpbell]

For some the logic of how to stay in business through tough times without firing their help is a mystery. Funny how not once have I mentioned politics in this thread and yet the left still find reasons to bitch and moan. Guess I should just fire everyone, close the doors and get on the govt teet. Then the left will cheer....

Ahhhh doubt that. You're more than likely used to a little more than what the elderly, sick and poverty stricken draw from the government. The median income in Tennessee is about $52,000 a year and I draw more pension than that.....thanks to the union.

People never stop to think that the union raised wages and benefits for everyone. In the early 1950's a carpenter or plumber earned about $100 a week with few benefits and a corporate executive made four or five times that. Now the CEO's load up their boards of directors whith their hand picked "good ol' boys" and earn 400-500 times what an ordinary worker earns. The guys at the top just couldn't stand it when working people began to make a living too.

This isn't the 50's any longer. Likewise we are no longer a society that stands on an assembly line turning bolts for a living. .

I wish you knew how rediculous you sppear:

I witnessed first hand what the unions did for the working man. In 1953 I hired in on what was at that time considered a good job...$1.71 an hour. Six months later the union negotiated for an increase for the classification I had hired in for and they made it retroactive. I was paid a lump sum of $0.10 per hour for every hour I had worked during that six months. When I hired in the company had a "shared" pension plan. Each pay period a deduction was taken from my check to pay my part. Two years later the union successfully negotiated for and was granted a company funded pension plan. It was also retroactive....I received a lump sum check covering every penny I had paid to that point.

When negotiations were ongoing for a new benefit for the hourly employees the salaried personnel of course were not included because they were not members of the union so every time we got a benefit the company gave the same thing to the salaried....sometimes no more than a couple of weeks before we got it.

Companies will not give or pay anyone a goddamned cent more than they have to and if I told you about the toxic and radioactive materials we worked in until OSHA and some regulations were in place you wouldn't believe it. It was 1974 when the company first issued individual film badges to measure what each employee was subjected to and then because of what they saw being recorded, for the first time they began to improve working conditions in the uranium plant where I was working. Before that the men working in the feed plant where the uranium was flourinated and heated would shovel the stuff with 18" spades and were not even issued shoe covers or simple masks. Those of us in the process cascade worked with our street clothes on and tracked that light green powder(uo2f2) away from the plant and into our homes. Sometimes when the atmosphere was heavy the flourine in the air was so dense that it would irritate one's nostrils.

In January 1953 about 100 of us were divided into four shifts and worked 24/7 until mid April cleaning up the biggest uraninum spill in the plant's history. There were five large individual plants at the site, K-33 at that time contained the third most construction steel of any in the world...falling behind the Eifel Tower and the Empire State Building. The effected plant(K-27) was about a quarter mile long, 100 yards wide and had three floors. An operator was heating up a 10 ton cylinder of feed material and the copper pigtail between the cylinder and the 5" feed line into the cell ruptured and all ten tons of material escaped into the plant. All the way from one end of the plant to the other and on all three floors icycles of the material condensed on the six inch contruction steel beams. The powder on the floors was half an inch deep in most places. We ran so many vacuum cleaners that one operator was assigned to the circuit breaker panel to reset them when they tripped from overload. The thousands of bags in the vacuum cleaners were all filled and guess what the labels we placed on each one said..."Class D Household Filth" You can bet your ass the company buried it in a land fill. To this day some of the highly radioactive materials are still being dealt with.

Beginning in the mid 1980's the company fought law suits but so many were sick and dying the DOL finally set up a fund, $140,000 per sick employee which was usually claimed by the survivors. Thank goodness in the early 60's I was caught in a broad reduction in force and managed to get another job in the computing center.

Anybody who thinks a company is their friend or that the company will do one inconvenient thing or give one extra penny to ordinary workers has their head so far up their ass that they will never see daylight again. Unions made the middle class of America and folks who can't see it just don't want to.

 

[Koios]

Koios it doesn't matter. I've made my points in this thread and I've grown tired arguing over the semantics of this or that word or phrase.

The bottom line is we as individuals are responsible for our own futures including our place of employment. Work hard, pay attention in school and you run a good chance of going far in life. Sit back and fuck off then go crying to everyone else that your job sucks.....

Not so tired as to let it go, apparently.

Meanwhile, I like my "job." (self employed in an enterprise that requires very little of my time.)

Sweet work if you can get it, but getting there is the trick. 30+ years as a marketing exec at Dir/VP level for some int'l concerns. Meeting some folks who have novel stuff that holds high margin and sells with little effort to a vertical market predisposed to buying it. You gotta pay your dues, but the reward can be pretty cushy.

How's low margin treatin' you? Pretty sweet is it?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I have no doubt that unions once served a valuable service for the working man. Key word once

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Koios it doesn't matter. I've made my points in this thread and I've grown tired arguing over the semantics of this or that word or phrase.

The bottom line is we as individuals are responsible for our own futures including our place of employment. Work hard, pay attention in school and you run a good chance of going far in life. Sit back and fuck off then go crying to everyone else that your job sucks.....

Not so tired as to let it go, apparently.

Meanwhile, I like my "job." (self employed in an enterprise that requires very little of my time.)

Sweet work if you can get it, but getting there is the trick. 30+ years as a marketing exec at Dir/VP level for some int'l concerns. Meeting some folks who have novel stuff that holds high margin and sells with little effort to a vertical market predisposed to buying it. You gotta pay your dues, but the reward can be pretty cushy.

How's low margin treatin' you? Pretty sweet is it?

I was trained for my field in prison. I am VERY content with where my life has gone when I consider where it could have went. Then again I am not driven by the almighty dollar. I have a comfortable life and that's good enough for me.

 

[Koios]

Koios it doesn't matter. I've made my points in this thread and I've grown tired arguing over the semantics of this or that word or phrase.

The bottom line is we as individuals are responsible for our own futures including our place of employment. Work hard, pay attention in school and you run a good chance of going far in life. Sit back and fuck off then go crying to everyone else that your job sucks.....

Not so tired as to let it go, apparently.

Meanwhile, I like my "job." (self employed in an enterprise that requires very little of my time.)

Sweet work if you can get it, but getting there is the trick. 30+ years as a marketing exec at Dir/VP level for some int'l concerns. Meeting some folks who have novel stuff that holds high margin and sells with little effort to a vertical market predisposed to buying it. You gotta pay your dues, but the reward can be pretty cushy.

How's low margin treatin' you? Pretty sweet is it?

I was trained for my field in prison. I am VERY content with where my life has gone when I consider where it could have went. Then again I am not driven by the almighty dollar. I have a comfortable life and that's good enough for me.

Refuge of losers. Fuck that. Make it pay.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Not so tired as to let it go, apparently.

Meanwhile, I like my "job." (self employed in an enterprise that requires very little of my time.)

Sweet work if you can get it, but getting there is the trick. 30+ years as a marketing exec at Dir/VP level for some int'l concerns. Meeting some folks who have novel stuff that holds high margin and sells with little effort to a vertical market predisposed to buying it. You gotta pay your dues, but the reward can be pretty cushy.

How's low margin treatin' you? Pretty sweet is it?

I was trained for my field in prison. I am VERY content with where my life has gone when I consider where it could have went. Then again I am not driven by the almighty dollar. I have a comfortable life and that's good enough for me.

Refuge of losers. Fuck that. Make it pay.

I make good money. No need to rip off consumers just for greed

 

[Koios]

I was trained for my field in prison. I am VERY content with where my life has gone when I consider where it could have went. Then again I am not driven by the almighty dollar. I have a comfortable life and that's good enough for me.

Refuge of losers. Fuck that. Make it pay.

I make good money. No need to rip off consumers just for greed

Seems I was tainted. Damnit! Never should have read Good to Great (actually true; since it showed its author's ignorance of how companies in fact grow and prosper, sustainably.)

And greed or what we business people call "profit motive," can help. It's taxed more and helps with the deficit thing. You can buy Sub Zero instead of Samsung. Helps out more here at home, and makes for a whopper of a commish for the appliance salesperson. And that money gets moving around, some maybe even accruing to folks who pay for your product or service. Not all bad.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I knew you were in jail, Gramps. But I didn't know that you learned your trade there. You would think a person who owes his livelihood to the progressive nature of our publicly funded correctional system would have an overall different POV.

Now...have you or have you not said that you are dealing with the "hard times" by doing most of the work yourself with one or two helpers? Did I imagine that?

 

[Cammmpbell]

Koios it doesn't matter. I've made my points in this thread and I've grown tired arguing over the semantics of this or that word or phrase.

The bottom line is we as individuals are responsible for our own futures including our place of employment. Work hard, pay attention in school and you run a good chance of going far in life. Sit back and fuck off then go crying to everyone else that your job sucks.....

Not so tired as to let it go, apparently.

Meanwhile, I like my "job." (self employed in an enterprise that requires very little of my time.)

Sweet work if you can get it, but getting there is the trick. 30+ years as a marketing exec at Dir/VP level for some int'l concerns. Meeting some folks who have novel stuff that holds high margin and sells with little effort to a vertical market predisposed to buying it. You gotta pay your dues, but the reward can be pretty cushy.

How's low margin treatin' you? Pretty sweet is it?

Nothing new.....the mantra of the wealthy and the Republican party is, "I've Got Mine, Now By God You Get Yours."

The only thing that pisses me off more than that is when the ignorant pricks thump their bibles and think they will rise up out of the grave, meet their ghost floating on a cloud, fly off to paradise to live forever while those of us who don't share their belief burn in a pit. ROTFLMAO!!!!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

[I[/I]

I knew you were in jail, Gramps. But I didn't know that you learned your trade there. You would think a person who owes his livelihood to the progressive nature of our publicly funded correctional system would have an overall different POV.

Now...have you or have you not said that you are dealing with the "hard times" by doing most of the work yourself with one or two helpers? Did I imagine that?

I have cut back on some of my skilled subs and do that portion. But I don't do much beyond that. I draw up our own blueprints now. In depth plumbing and electrical etc. But the bulk of physical work and custom glass is still done by others. Depending on how this winter goes I may lose another. Its been a bit slower this fall than the last few years.and that was pretty slow to begin with.

And by the way I have stated on several occasions that I'm glad I was imprisoned. Sadly most who go don't learn a damn thing. Although when I got out I took some business management courses on my own.

 

[LoneLaugher]

As I said. The value of labor is very mysterious.

 

[Oldguy]

Why are you so intentionally stupid? I have a set cubic foot price. I bend that policy on occasion to help out struggling home owners who otherwise couldn't afford nice upgrades. Other businesses call it a sale. I don't offer sales.
Stop being stupid

Really?

And then, there is this:

"Then there are customers like my current one who I've made a fortune off of because he has more money than self control. We just installed a fucking hand hammered copper tub in his master suite."

Wanna tell me again about that cubic foot price?

 

[Oldguy]

Nope; the guys (gals) who run the market into the groud, making the pie that businesses share, smaller.

Nope. Low ballers as you call them are uninsured contractors. Contractors who hire illegal or unquallified help. Contractors who are not licensed. And other manner of sheisty individuals.

When the market dives smart companies adjust accordingly. Many have sales. Others give away a percentage of products or labor to attract business during the slow season. Hell the flooring companies like home depot and carpet one offer free installation when you buy certain amounts.

I suspect you simply have not one fucking clue what you are talking about. Likewise union companies don't bend and as a consequence their contractors call me every year during the slow season looking for work. I sympathize with them but unionizing was their choice not mine.

Low ballers are folks who charge less than the going rate, which lowers the market value of the services they provide, screwing both them all other businesses like them. Whether or not they're playing by the rules to get there, is another matter entirely.

And, lowballer's pay about the same for materials and transportation as everyone else. A 2X4 is a 2X4 and the cost doesn't vary much from business to business.

The ONLY place they can make up the difference in price is by skirting regulations and permits, none or under insuring or, more commonly, lower wages and benefits for their employees.

EVERYBODY but the lowballer loses from that.