Stop running up the National debt

[davidlee]

As of Wednesday December 5th the United States National debt was calculated at $16, 338, 943, 716, 61 dollars. Every man women and child owes 53,775 for their share of the national debt. I hope these numbers shock people and make them realize what impact this has on our lives. This is a disgrace in my opinion. The American people should not be subject to have to pay for a debt that they had no part in creating.

As most people know there is an ongoing argument discussion into what is being called the fiscal cliff. There’s a thing in place called the Bush tax cuts. On December 31st at midnight these tax cuts expire. To be honest I have no idea what it all entails. What I do know is it raises taxes on everybody. This in turn could prove as a disaster for the American economy

The American economy is already a disaster in my opinion were a Country that spends too much on things. We as Country spend $11.00 for every $7.00 brought in. Ask yourself this if you ran your house like United State Government runs the Country we would all be homeless. This is a travesty to the future of this Country. The children of this Country deserve better

 

[The Infidel]

I say lets go over the cliff... Lets ALL feel the pain together.

 

[occupied]

My Bush tax cut was not that much and made no noticeable difference in my life, only people who oppose taxation on principle are having a cow over them and while they never made a difference in any individual life the cost has added a lot to that debt. It is also important to note that the debt is piling up more from stuff congress spent on years and years ago rather than new spending programs which have declined pretty steeply from the last administration.

 

[ilia25]

As of Wednesday December 5th the United States National debt was calculated at $16, 338, 943, 716, 61 dollars. Every man women and child owes 53,775 for their share of the national debt. I hope these numbers shock people and make them realize what impact this has on our lives. This is a disgrace in my opinion. The American people should not be subject to have to pay for a debt that they had no part in creating.

As most people know there is an ongoing argument discussion into what is being called the fiscal cliff. There’s a thing in place called the Bush tax cuts. On December 31st at midnight these tax cuts expire. To be honest I have no idea what it all entails. What I do know is it raises taxes on everybody. This in turn could prove as a disaster for the American economy

The American economy is already a disaster in my opinion were a Country that spends too much on things. We as Country spend $11.00 for every $7.00 brought in. Ask yourself this if you ran your house like United State Government runs the Country we would all be homeless. This is a travesty to the future of this Country. The children of this Country deserve better

Stop screaming nonsense! Our biggest problem is a weak economy and the lack of jobs -- not the debt or deficits.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Your Income Tax only goes to pay the INTEREST on the National Debt, nothing else.

 

[Freemason9]

As of Wednesday December 5th the United States National debt was calculated at $16, 338, 943, 716, 61 dollars. Every man women and child owes 53,775 for their share of the national debt. I hope these numbers shock people and make them realize what impact this has on our lives. This is a disgrace in my opinion. The American people should not be subject to have to pay for a debt that they had no part in creating.

As most people know there is an ongoing argument discussion into what is being called the fiscal cliff. There’s a thing in place called the Bush tax cuts. On December 31st at midnight these tax cuts expire. To be honest I have no idea what it all entails. What I do know is it raises taxes on everybody. This in turn could prove as a disaster for the American economy

The American economy is already a disaster in my opinion were a Country that spends too much on things. We as Country spend $11.00 for every $7.00 brought in. Ask yourself this if you ran your house like United State Government runs the Country we would all be homeless. This is a travesty to the future of this Country. The children of this Country deserve better

You should understand that the federal debt is not at all comparable to consumer debt, household debt, or any other kind of debt. And, actually, you are needlessly alarmed by it. In some ways, federal debt is healthy under a federal reserve system--since an expanding economy requires an expanding money supply, and we expand our money supply by creating debt. (I know that sounds odd, but it is THE ONLY WAY the U.S. creates more money).

This isn't to say that things can't get out of whack--tax policy since 1980, for example, has created a rapidly increasing debt level that accompanied highly concentrated wealth accumulation (and a consequent decline in middle class incomes).

But I merely point these things out so that you can look more deeply into what the ramifacations of federal fiscal policy are in terms of federal debt, income, and wealth distribution.

We have far greater issues than the federal debt, believe me.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

In some ways, federal debt is health under a federal reserve system--since an expanding economy requires an expanding money supply, and we expand our money supply by creating debt. (I know that sounds odd, but it is THE ONLY WAY the U.S. creates more money).

Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[Freemason9]

In some ways, federal debt is health under a federal reserve system--since an expanding economy requires an expanding money supply, and we expand our money supply by creating debt. (I know that sounds odd, but it is THE ONLY WAY the U.S. creates more money).

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Explain, then, how the U.S. monetary supply expands--in YOUR mind. This should be interesting.

Nearly the entire U.S. money supply is based upon debt issuance.

 

[Votto]

As of Wednesday December 5th the United States National debt was calculated at $16, 338, 943, 716, 61 dollars. Every man women and child owes 53,775 for their share of the national debt. I hope these numbers shock people and make them realize what impact this has on our lives. This is a disgrace in my opinion. The American people should not be subject to have to pay for a debt that they had no part in creating.

As most people know there is an ongoing argument discussion into what is being called the fiscal cliff. There’s a thing in place called the Bush tax cuts. On December 31st at midnight these tax cuts expire. To be honest I have no idea what it all entails. What I do know is it raises taxes on everybody. This in turn could prove as a disaster for the American economy

The American economy is already a disaster in my opinion were a Country that spends too much on things. We as Country spend $11.00 for every $7.00 brought in. Ask yourself this if you ran your house like United State Government runs the Country we would all be homeless. This is a travesty to the future of this Country. The children of this Country deserve better

Wrong!!

The debt if more like $86 trillion.

Cox and Archer: Why $16 Trillion Only Hints at the True U.S. Debt - WSJ.com

What you are spoon fed by the two party system and the media is not accurate. Those in government are cooking the books like those in Wall Street.

Until they are truthful with the American people and themselves about the real debt, just know it is all smoke and mirrors to try and gain support. In truth, raising or lowering taxes is like trying to empty or fill an ocean with a spoon. Neither party is interested in addressing the real problems.

 

[Freemason9]

As of Wednesday December 5th the United States National debt was calculated at $16, 338, 943, 716, 61 dollars. Every man women and child owes 53,775 for their share of the national debt. I hope these numbers shock people and make them realize what impact this has on our lives. This is a disgrace in my opinion. The American people should not be subject to have to pay for a debt that they had no part in creating.

As most people know there is an ongoing argument discussion into what is being called the fiscal cliff. There’s a thing in place called the Bush tax cuts. On December 31st at midnight these tax cuts expire. To be honest I have no idea what it all entails. What I do know is it raises taxes on everybody. This in turn could prove as a disaster for the American economy

The American economy is already a disaster in my opinion were a Country that spends too much on things. We as Country spend $11.00 for every $7.00 brought in. Ask yourself this if you ran your house like United State Government runs the Country we would all be homeless. This is a travesty to the future of this Country. The children of this Country deserve better

Wrong!!

The debt if more like $86 trillion.

Cox and Archer: Why $16 Trillion Only Hints at the True U.S. Debt - WSJ.com

What you are spoon fed by the two party system and the media is not accurate. Those in government are cooking the books like those in Wall Street.

Until they are truthful with the American people and themselves about the real debt, just know it is all smoke and mirrors to try and gain support. In truth, raising or lowering taxes is like trying to empty or fill an ocean with a spoon. Neither party is interested in addressing the real problems.

NO, the debt is nowhere near "$86 trillion." That is just trash stirred up by right wingers to excite their base. This number reflects future obligations without considering future revenue streams. It is hogwash.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

In some ways, federal debt is health under a federal reserve system--since an expanding economy requires an expanding money supply, and we expand our money supply by creating debt. (I know that sounds odd, but it is THE ONLY WAY the U.S. creates more money).

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Explain, then, how the U.S. monetary supply expands--in YOUR mind. This should be interesting.

Nearly the entire U.S. money supply is based upon debt issuance.

First off, an expanding economy does not require monetary inflation. In fact, monetary inflation is bad for an economy overall. In increases prices or ruins purchasing power (same outcome, mostly).

Treasury issuance is built on monetized debt, yes. But this isn't the only way it happens. There are two types of "money" supply. M1 and M2. They happen in totally different ways.

The federal reserve, under operation twist and QE3 is also expanding the available M2 by purchasing assets from the private sector...especially mortgage bundles.

 

[The Infidel]

My Bush tax cut was not that much and made no noticeable difference in my life, only people who oppose taxation on principle are having a cow over them and while they never made a difference in any individual life the cost has added a lot to that debt. It is also important to note that the debt is piling up more from stuff congress spent on years and years ago rather than new spending programs which have declined pretty steeply from the last administration.

Typical... Blame everybody else. Obama is without blame.

 

[zeke]

Man that debt is killing me. Interest rates on mortgages lowest is 40 years. Profits on Wall street kicking ass. Borrowing costs unbelievable good. Wages flat or declining. Which sucks for the wage earner but works well for the business owner. And it is business and wall street that are benefitting most from low cost of money the most.

Just what is it that you think the debt is doing to harm good ole middle class people like me, at this time?

 

[The Infidel]

As of Wednesday December 5th the United States National debt was calculated at $16, 338, 943, 716, 61 dollars. Every man women and child owes 53,775 for their share of the national debt. I hope these numbers shock people and make them realize what impact this has on our lives. This is a disgrace in my opinion. The American people should not be subject to have to pay for a debt that they had no part in creating.

As most people know there is an ongoing argument discussion into what is being called the fiscal cliff. There’s a thing in place called the Bush tax cuts. On December 31st at midnight these tax cuts expire. To be honest I have no idea what it all entails. What I do know is it raises taxes on everybody. This in turn could prove as a disaster for the American economy

The American economy is already a disaster in my opinion were a Country that spends too much on things. We as Country spend $11.00 for every $7.00 brought in. Ask yourself this if you ran your house like United State Government runs the Country we would all be homeless. This is a travesty to the future of this Country. The children of this Country deserve better

Stop screaming nonsense! Our biggest problem is a weak economy and the lack of jobs -- not the debt or deficits.

Get a clue.... It's all tied together.

 

[The Infidel]

Man that debt is killing me. Interest rates on mortgages lowest is 40 years. Profits on Wall street kicking ass. Borrowing costs unbelievable good. Wages flat or declining. Which sucks for the wage earner but works well for the business owner. And it is business and wall street that are benefitting most from low cost of money the most.

Just what is it that you think the debt is doing to harm good ole middle class people like me, at this time?

Ha...

 

[Votto]

As of Wednesday December 5th the United States National debt was calculated at $16, 338, 943, 716, 61 dollars. Every man women and child owes 53,775 for their share of the national debt. I hope these numbers shock people and make them realize what impact this has on our lives. This is a disgrace in my opinion. The American people should not be subject to have to pay for a debt that they had no part in creating.

As most people know there is an ongoing argument discussion into what is being called the fiscal cliff. There’s a thing in place called the Bush tax cuts. On December 31st at midnight these tax cuts expire. To be honest I have no idea what it all entails. What I do know is it raises taxes on everybody. This in turn could prove as a disaster for the American economy

The American economy is already a disaster in my opinion were a Country that spends too much on things. We as Country spend $11.00 for every $7.00 brought in. Ask yourself this if you ran your house like United State Government runs the Country we would all be homeless. This is a travesty to the future of this Country. The children of this Country deserve better

Wrong!!

The debt if more like $86 trillion.

Cox and Archer: Why $16 Trillion Only Hints at the True U.S. Debt - WSJ.com

What you are spoon fed by the two party system and the media is not accurate. Those in government are cooking the books like those in Wall Street.

Until they are truthful with the American people and themselves about the real debt, just know it is all smoke and mirrors to try and gain support. In truth, raising or lowering taxes is like trying to empty or fill an ocean with a spoon. Neither party is interested in addressing the real problems.

NO, the debt is nowhere near "$86 trillion." That is just trash stirred up by right wingers to excite their base. This number reflects future obligations without considering future revenue streams. It is hogwash.

Yes, the WSJ is run by a bunch of crazy right wingers, that is common knowledge.

Too bad Jon Stewart does not tell you these things.

How is the article wrong spanky? If you can't answer me that, then shut up.

 

[g5000]

Your Income Tax only goes to pay the INTEREST on the National Debt, nothing else.

This is sheer bullshit.

.

 

[Freemason9]

Wow. Just, wow:

First off, an expanding economy does not require monetary inflation. In fact, monetary inflation is bad for an economy overall. In increases prices or ruins purchasing power (same outcome, mostly).

There is no agreement among economists--and little hard evidence--that monetary inflation has a causal relationship with price inflation. Given this, I don't know why you would believe that monetary inflation is bad "overall" for any economy.

Treasury issuance is built on monetized debt, yes. But this isn't the only way it happens. There are two types of "money" supply. M1 and M2. They happen in totally different ways.

M1 and M2 are actually two measures of money supply, but that is immaterial--the expanding money supply originates from debt issuance.

The federal reserve, under operation twist and QE3 is also expanding the available M2 by purchasing assets from the private sector...especially mortgage bundles.

Yes. The FR purchases assets with--what??? They make their purchases by issuing paper debt. Where else did you think the money came from? Printing presses?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

There is no agreement among economists--and little hard evidence--that monetary inflation has a causal relationship with price inflation. Given this, I don't know why you would believe that monetary inflation is bad "overall" for any economy.

The more money in rotation, the less purchasing power each unit has. There are ways to offset this. In the 80s, it was done by trade deficits, and other hyperinflating currencies that began hoarding dollars in the face of national currency tanking. Much money went out into the world, but not nearly all of it returned. As one example.

M1 and M2 are actually two measures of money supply, but that is immaterial--the expanding money supply originates from debt issuance.

Only if actual notes and coins are the exact same thing as credit/fractional lending. They are not.

Yes. The FR purchases assets with--what??? They make their purchases by issuing paper debt. Where else did you think the money came from? Printing presses?

By buying bonds (from banks) with newly created "money" (ditigal numbers added to a banks balance for further fractional lending). It adds to a banks ability to lend. This is not debt issuance. It is credit issuance.

I agree with your premise that the US is a debt society, but it not nearly as simple as you're trying to make it out to be.

 

[Freemason9]

The more money in rotation, the less purchasing power each unit has. There are ways to offset this. In the 80s, it was done by trade deficits, and other hyperinflating currencies that began hoarding dollars in the face of national currency tanking. Much money went out into the world, but not nearly all of it returned. As one example.

This is not why the money supply expands; indeed, the target of monetary expansion is the growth in GNP. If those rates matched, price inflation (which you refer to) should (theoretically) be zero. However--in a capitalist economy--increasing profits is the target, and that is done by stroking the economy via making more dollars available; hence, there tends to be a "build in" for a certain rate of inflation (1% to 2.5% has historically been considered as optimal).

Only if actual notes and coins are the exact same thing as credit/fractional lending. They are not.

Well, that's exactly my point. Reserve lending (you refer to it as credit/fractional lending) is not related to notes and coins. It is the creation of the potential (practically immeasurable in fixed terms) of new money in the system.

By buying bonds (from banks) with newly created "money" (ditigal numbers added to a banks balance for further fractional lending). It adds to a banks ability to lend. This is not debt issuance. It is credit issuance.

Let's get serious, though . . . credit issuance is (functionally) the very same thing as debt issuance in a hyperactive financial industry. No money manager would allow a pool of funds to go unused.

Interesting dialogue, thanks for that.