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I was a career Navy medic and assigned with the Marines, I was armed with the 9mm pistol, the Marines around me were armed with M16A4's and SAW's we, myself included were taught to go "toward" the gunfire. It's drummed into you.In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazy
If you're a cop and you here what are obviously people being shot, you don't sit back and wait your duty is to save lives, even if it means sacrificing your own in the attempt.
1. I don't "fantasize" about protecting anyone. 2. When in combat, fear is natural and expected, however, you must overcome the fear.Those cops for the rest of their lives will have to live with this shit....must we add to that? I am not a friend of cops, I've seen too often my people the target of their bravery......but lets keep it real, please, please please.....cops are human beings, most are not brave and the only times you see bravery with these people is when minorities are unarmed or caught off guard. And its only then people like you, herald them as hero's....you can not except this type of bravery and dismiss them next as cowards...I was a career Navy medic and assigned with the Marines, I was armed with the 9mm pistol, the Marines around me were armed with M16A4's and SAW's we, myself included were taught to go "toward" the gunfire. It's drummed into you.In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazy
If you're a cop and you here what are obviously people being shot, you don't sit back and wait your duty is to save lives, even if it means sacrificing your own in the attempt.I was in the Navy for 10 years and like you worked side by side with Marines in the intel division. I served under Reagan and lived with the threat of nuclear war everyday until the nut saw the light.....I learned how to shoot and protect myself, however, as a proud gun owner, living in da hood, there's not a day that don't go by I fantasize about protecting my family....but in reality, I'm scared shittless knowing I may have to take a life or give mine up someday...BECAUSE I'M HUMAN!!I was a career Navy medic and assigned with the Marines, I was armed with the 9mm pistol, the Marines around me were armed with M16A4's and SAW's we, myself included were taught to go "toward" the gunfire. It's drummed into you.In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazy
If you're a cop and you here what are obviously people being shot, you don't sit back and wait your duty is to save lives, even if it means sacrificing your own in the attempt.
ConcealedCarry heroes do what is needed everyday and don't freeze up. You're just pushing the Democrat line who really doesn't want mass shootings to end.What it points out in glaring unflinching reality is putting a gun in someone's hand, a teacher or janitor or someone else at the school, in no way prepares a human being for the moment they have to walk into assault rifle gunfire 'to do a job'. Even the police that are much more highly trained than any teacher at a school hesitate and have trouble functioning in the moment of reality.
And how can you a) blame people for a reaction that NOBODY can know of before actually being in a life and death situation, and b) expect people that aren't trained nearly as much as the police to react like rambo in that situation. Police are human beings, you can bet many of them are either terrified when out in the field and are involved in a gunfight, or they're traumatized to the point of great anxiety in every encounter they have with the public. The nonstop shootings of unarmed civilians we've seen illustrates with great clarity that a number of police officers are in fact terrified. Some of the police are as scared to death while doing their job as anyone that isn't a cop would be.
And even when the military goes into battle there are people that freeze up and can't function. A mortal threat to anyone throws the book out the window, extensive training and repetition is the best method for lowering the instances of freezing and inability to function but it is no guarantee. All human beings react differently when faced with their death. And anyone that would say THEY know what they would do are lying and fronting. Some people actually RUN into bullets wizzing past, some freeze, some run. To expect people like teachers, administrators, and janitors to become super-heroes a moment after going over what the Pythagorean Theorem is is ludicrous.
That did not apply to Deputy who did not enter the schoolSeriously? The bravest mf's I know are that of blacks......who else can survive 200 plus years of stupid ignorant pathetic violent white people and then end up fuckin their daughters....Brave black men do this shit every hour on the hour, TankI wouldn't expect you to understand, there is no bravery in the African community
Thank you. I was wondering about that myself. Hindsight is always 20/20I must admit that I haven’t been keeping up on this issue. It’s all just noise at this point.
But, based on what I know, I believe that the cops didn’t go in because of training and police procedures rather than out of cowardice.
For decades the accepted procedure in these cases is to cordon the offender and his hostages and wait did SWAT or HRT before breach.
My own department changed to the current AAO process to allow front line cops to breach in a very specific set of circumstances only three years ago. It took nearly two years to get all the cops through the five day training to do that.
I would not be surprised to hear, when all the facts come out, that the cops had been ordered to stay outside the hot cordon until SWAT arrived.
Dude, you have got to tone down your apparent intellect and be a bit more short winded....reading your post is like reading a fuckin novel....in one ear out the other.....now with that being said, finger pointing, second guessing, playing couch hero, in my opinion does a disservice to the dead and to the law of that county. Moving forward, the nation must find solutions.What is one to say to that? Your experiences and personal observations are what they are. I think it unfortunate that your experience consists only of cops being disappointments. The verity of your interactions and observations of police behavior doesn't, however, define the normative standards to which each of us, including you, has a reasonable basis to hold cops accountable.No disrespect, but I served 10 years in Navy and I have been privy many many times locally to see our cops in action....and I'm never impressed. They're never around when the real danger is posed. They come after the fact. I've never seen in my neck of the woods a hero story about cops, never. Now I've seen them bravely give tickets out for seat belts not being warn, I've seen many times them shoot unarmed blacks, but hero's.....I'm still waiting. My reality and I'm sticking to it!!Dude, its just a job, its just a uniform.....all this attached banter about their tax payer obligations don't mean crap. In the real world, fear takes priority. Everybody wants to jump down these men throats for wanting to stay alive and yet you give a pass to another tax paid servant that acts like a fuckin moron 24/7, ie Trump. 2 examples of people showing thier true character in light of what is expected.In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazyYes, but the fact of the matter is that cops, somewhat like soldiers, are employed, trained and paid to subordinate those urges. When they don't do so, quite simply, they aren't adequately enough doing a part of the job they signed-up to do and that they are paid to perform.In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive....Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later....In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....
Fear of perishing is a healthy emotion when its possessed and heeded in a perspicacious manner. When fear is given too great a role in governing one's thoughts and deeds, it catalyzes unsuitable, irrational and/or inapt outcomes. Such outcomes, among cops and soldiers, include not doing the very thing they are employed to do.
Does that mean that cops and actively serving soldiers are held to higher and/or more rigid behavioral standards than are the rest of us? Yes, it does. Considering them as mere men and women, I fully understand and adjudge as "normal" the FL cops choice(s) not to enter the Parkland school. Considering them as cops, I see men and women who agreed to take a job whereof they, in fact, were unwilling to fulfill all the obligations that job carries.Well, if that's how you feel about it, and I'm not suggesting you aren't entitled to feel that way with regard to your own evaluation of a career you might pursue as a cop or soldier, I'm glad you aren't one of the cops patrolling my streets.Dude, its just a job, its just a uniform.....
- Harms Way Procedure
- The "Emergency Aid Doctrine"
- Addressing cops' confusion over 'the public duty doctrine'
"Officers must balance the pros and cons of taking action against the rights, responsibilities, and the limitations of the profession imposed upon them by the Constitution, statute, and case law." Notice that self-preservation isn't part of the equation.
I think too part of what's at issue in your mind is the inadequacy with which law enforcement officers and institutions interdict rather than react to criminal behavior among the citizenry. In fairness, cops aren't psychic and they don't have crystal balls. Accordingly, the scope of crime prevention they can perform is largely limited to apprehending extant offenders and commencing the process by which they are denied subsequent opportunities to commit similar and/or worse offenses.They're never around when the real danger is posed. They come after the fact....but hero's.....I'm still waiting.
The circumstance in Parkland, FL is an uncommon one in that it was an instance in which some law enforcement officers were on-site in the midst of a crime and, seemingly, before all 17 kids had been shot dead, yet they demurred from entering the building and confronting him. Clearly, those cops didn't behave heroically, but that doesn't mean they should not have and it doesn't mean they hadn't any onus to have done so.
The normative standards some cops at Parkland and others disregarded, unless I misread your OP, is the basis for this thread's title and OP remarks. As goes whether the cops who responded to the MSD school's request for help, it's clear they didn't exert the full bore of their resources to serve their community. Had they performed the mental calculus I described in post 27, it's possible that instead of talking about 12 dead kids and two dead teachers, we'd instead be talking about some fewer quantity of such and some quantity of dead or injured cops and perhaps a dead shooter. That too would have been a sorrowful outcome and subsequent conversation, but given the expectation that cops, when called to do so, duty to enter harm's way, it'd have been an outcome and conversation concomitant with part of why communities cops.
I love how one minute when unarmed nigga's are being shot, because COPS FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES....and all of white america and the justice system rally's in their favor....but when the true cowardliness of cops comes full throttle AND THEY FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES., suddenly these cowards are unworthy? Do you see the hypocrisy here?I must admit that I haven’t been keeping up on this issue. It’s all just noise at this point.
But, based on what I know, I believe that the cops didn’t go in because of training and police procedures rather than out of cowardice.
For decades the accepted procedure in these cases is to cordon the offender and his hostages and wait did SWAT or HRT before breach.
My own department changed to the current AAO process to allow front line cops to breach in a very specific set of circumstances only three years ago. It took nearly two years to get all the cops through the five day training to do that.
I would not be surprised to hear, when all the facts come out, that the cops had been ordered to stay outside the hot cordon until SWAT arrived.
It doesn't take special training or orders to tell me to do the decent thing out of good conscience and put the lives of children above my own concerns rather than stand by while kid after kid is shot dead and I just stand by and wind my watch. I bet the feeling would be quite different if that was YOUR kid inside the building! If it takes a fucking SWAT team now to deal with one 17 year old punk, then we are all in danger and one best gun-up in your own self-defense now while you can still get them because your local police force isn't worth a damn for anything but enforcing law (making arrests after the fact), writing tickets and processing paperwork.
In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazy
[Dude, you have got to tone down your apparent intellect and be a bit more short winded....reading your post is like reading a fuckin novel....in one ear out the other.....now with that being said, finger pointing, second guessing, playing couch hero, in my opinion does a disservice to the dead and to the law of that county. Moving forward, the nation must find solutions.What is one to say to that? Your experiences and personal observations are what they are. I think it unfortunate that your experience consists only of cops being disappointments. The verity of your interactions and observations of police behavior doesn't, however, define the normative standards to which each of us, including you, has a reasonable basis to hold cops accountable.No disrespect, but I served 10 years in Navy and I have been privy many many times locally to see our cops in action....and I'm never impressed. They're never around when the real danger is posed. They come after the fact. I've never seen in my neck of the woods a hero story about cops, never. Now I've seen them bravely give tickets out for seat belts not being warn, I've seen many times them shoot unarmed blacks, but hero's.....I'm still waiting. My reality and I'm sticking to it!!Dude, its just a job, its just a uniform.....all this attached banter about their tax payer obligations don't mean crap. In the real world, fear takes priority. Everybody wants to jump down these men throats for wanting to stay alive and yet you give a pass to another tax paid servant that acts like a fuckin moron 24/7, ie Trump. 2 examples of people showing thier true character in light of what is expected.Yes, but the fact of the matter is that cops, somewhat like soldiers, are employed, trained and paid to subordinate those urges. When they don't do so, quite simply, they aren't adequately enough doing a part of the job they signed-up to do and that they are paid to perform.
Fear of perishing is a healthy emotion when its possessed and heeded in a perspicacious manner. When fear is given too great a role in governing one's thoughts and deeds, it catalyzes unsuitable, irrational and/or inapt outcomes. Such outcomes, among cops and soldiers, include not doing the very thing they are employed to do.
Does that mean that cops and actively serving soldiers are held to higher and/or more rigid behavioral standards than are the rest of us? Yes, it does. Considering them as mere men and women, I fully understand and adjudge as "normal" the FL cops choice(s) not to enter the Parkland school. Considering them as cops, I see men and women who agreed to take a job whereof they, in fact, were unwilling to fulfill all the obligations that job carries.Well, if that's how you feel about it, and I'm not suggesting you aren't entitled to feel that way with regard to your own evaluation of a career you might pursue as a cop or soldier, I'm glad you aren't one of the cops patrolling my streets.Dude, its just a job, its just a uniform.....
- Harms Way Procedure
- The "Emergency Aid Doctrine"
- Addressing cops' confusion over 'the public duty doctrine'
"Officers must balance the pros and cons of taking action against the rights, responsibilities, and the limitations of the profession imposed upon them by the Constitution, statute, and case law." Notice that self-preservation isn't part of the equation.
I think too part of what's at issue in your mind is the inadequacy with which law enforcement officers and institutions interdict rather than react to criminal behavior among the citizenry. In fairness, cops aren't psychic and they don't have crystal balls. Accordingly, the scope of crime prevention they can perform is largely limited to apprehending extant offenders and commencing the process by which they are denied subsequent opportunities to commit similar and/or worse offenses.They're never around when the real danger is posed. They come after the fact....but hero's.....I'm still waiting.
The circumstance in Parkland, FL is an uncommon one in that it was an instance in which some law enforcement officers were on-site in the midst of a crime and, seemingly, before all 17 kids had been shot dead, yet they demurred from entering the building and confronting him. Clearly, those cops didn't behave heroically, but that doesn't mean they should not have and it doesn't mean they hadn't any onus to have done so.
The normative standards some cops at Parkland and others disregarded, unless I misread your OP, is the basis for this thread's title and OP remarks. As goes whether the cops who responded to the MSD school's request for help, it's clear they didn't exert the full bore of their resources to serve their community. Had they performed the mental calculus I described in post 27, it's possible that instead of talking about 12 dead kids and two dead teachers, we'd instead be talking about some fewer quantity of such and some quantity of dead or injured cops and perhaps a dead shooter. That too would have been a sorrowful outcome and subsequent conversation, but given the expectation that cops, when called to do so, duty to enter harm's way, it'd have been an outcome and conversation concomitant with part of why communities cops.
Dude, you opened this thread with the normative exhortation that we (society) cease and desist with censuring cops (presumably some of the ones who responded to the MSD shooting in Parkland, FL) for not entering the MSD school building(s) in pursuit of the shooter. Your basis for that exhortation is innate sense of self-preservation's immutability, even among cops.finger pointing, second guessing, playing couch hero, in my opinion does a disservice to the dead and to the law of that county.
Stop hating on these cops for being HUMAN BEINGS!!...In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun [in a long time] and you want him to go into a building and save lives?
cops, somewhat like soldiers, are employed, trained and paid to subordinate those urges. When they don't do so, quite simply, they aren't adequately enough doing a part of the job they signed-up to do and that they are paid to perform.
Dude, its just a job, its just a uniform.....all this attached banter about their tax payer obligations don't mean crap.
- Harms Way Procedure
- The "Emergency Aid Doctrine"
- Addressing cops' confusion over 'the public duty doctrine'
"Officers must balance the pros and cons of taking action against the rights, responsibilities, and the limitations of the profession imposed upon them by the Constitution, statute, and case law." Notice that self-preservation isn't part of the equation.
I served 10 years in Navy and I have been privy many many times locally to see our cops in action....and I'm never impressed. They're never around when the real danger is posed. They come after the fact. I've never seen in my neck of the woods a hero story about cops, never.
My reality and I'm sticking to it!!
now with that being said, finger pointing, second guessing, playing couch hero, in my opinion does a disservice to the dead and to the law
Moving forward, the nation must find solutions.
Okay, I'll bite. Solutions to what? What exactly are the matters for which you here care to discuss solutions and solution approaches?Moving forward, the nation must find solutions.
In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazy
You are dead wrong on this. When you hire on as a policeman, you understand that your duty is to serve and protect. And if that means putting your life on the line, so be it. In the military what those men did would have been dereliction of duty, and would have been a stain on them for the rest of their lives. That is as it should be for those four men.In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazy
The pattern of "do well and receive praise; do poorly and be condemned" is not unique to cops. Indeed, it is not unique at all. What's different is that when public office/job holders blunder, the general public finds out about it and/or wants to know about it and the recriminations happen in public. When private sector personnel blunder, unless it's a really, really big blunder, it doesn't attract the general public's attention, but the recriminations nonetheless happen. (Of course, there are exceptions; I'm talking about the norms, not the exceptions.)That goes completely against how police are trained. We are trained not to take life-threatening risk but to follow safety procedure in all situations. If we risk our lives and things go well ... medals and citations all around. If we risk our lives and things go bad, for us or for innocents, then accusations and condemnations are the order of the day.
As I've said before, it's all about departmental liability. Protect and serve, but within accepted policy guidelines.
It could not have. The shooter willfully stopped shooting and exited the building, doing so by blending in with fleeing students! The guy walked right out the doors like everyone else!How could it have gone any worse for the students if the guard and officers had gone straight in? They failed, and they will wear the cowards brand for the rest of their lives.
Because despite this super human status we bestow on cops, in the real world, they're just like you and I.....and sometimes, fear paralyzes the best of us....why do you think when confronting a black person, they shoot first? Fear!!!In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazy
I usually say that 'When seconds count, the police are minutes away'
In this case, when courage counts, you're on your own
-Geaux
Nobody survives 200 years. Whites are not the most violent today.Seriously? The bravest mf's I know are that of blacks......who else can survive 200 plus years of stupid ignorant pathetic violent white people and then end up fuckin their daughters....Brave black men do this shit every hour on the hour, TankI wouldn't expect you to understand, there is no bravery in the African community
More whites are shot by cops than blacks. If you commit a crime, what do you expect? No sympathy.In the real fuckin world, the first instinct of humans is to survive.....this hero shit is for the movies and just a hand full of brave men, mainly our soldiers and firefighters. Most people just want to live...and this is apparent when you see time after time after time over the last few years, cops shooting black men first out of sheer fear, and then asking questions later. In the real world, cops are just human beings like the rest of us and their first instincts is to survive....fuck being a hero...unless its an unarmed black man with expired tags on his car, then you got a fuckin hero.
You got a deranged kid, shooting up everybody and you want cops, who haven't shot a gun since Tyrone the black guy was jay walking??????????? and you want him to go into a building and save lives? Had that been a predominate black school, they would have dropped bombs inside the school.
Bottom line, they know, white people are crazy
Any alleged person who wouldn't risk his life to save children doesn't deserve to live.
Why are you so determined to make everything about race?
