Stone to rehablitate Hilter Stalin and Mao.

[Sunni Man]

A couple of hundred years from now.

Hitler will be looked at in a different light.

What do you mean?

You mean he'll be viewed more as a victim of psychosis?

Nope

 

[Sodafin]

By the end of Napolean's life. He was vilified throughout europe as an evil person.

But now in France he is hailed as a patriot and a hero.

As time goes by and generations pass.

Hitler will also be rehabilited. It's just the way things happen over time.

Firstly - you really haven't spent a lot of time in Germany recently, have you?

Hitler is vilified in Germany - he is remembered as the man who disgraced Germany, who destroyed the economy and the infrastructure, and stained the name of German people forever.

Secondly -

Napoleon was never really a dictator at home.

The reputation of dictators has tended to get worse over time - not better.

Are you also going to claim that the Romanian people will come to miss Ceacescu, that the Albanians will miss Xoxha or the Paraguayans miss Stroessner?

Baruch -

Given Hitler was right wing, and Stone left wing, I strongly doubt Stone is going to praise him, somehow.

 

[Bfgrn]

Oliver Stone has a history as well. He admires people like that.

And it isn't as if no one believe that Hitler has to be studied in terms of context. It is the only way to understand anything about him. Stalin also has to be studied in context. Neither of these guys were just thunderclaps from a blue sky.

I have no problem with understanding, but I fear what Oliver Stone will offer is justification, which is a different kettle of spoiled fish.

To put things to you directly... Finland was an ally of Hitler during the war. Did they have good reasons? Given the context, I kind of think there was valid logic for that. Finland didn't participate in Germany's stupidity (Most of Germany's allies were squicked out by what they saw going on, even the Japanese consular staff actively subverted the final solution) but given what Finland went through during the winter war.... it is understandable. Justified... That is a different question.

Do you pull this shit out of your ass? Oliver Stone loathes 'people like that'...

If you want to study people that glorify despots like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, look no farther that today's GOP...

Educate yourself about 'The Family'

They are the Family—fundamentalism's avant-garde, waging spiritual war in the halls of American power and around the globe. They consider themselves the new chosen—congressmen, generals, and foreign dictators who meet in confidential cells, to pray and plan for a "leadership led by God," to be won not by force but through "quiet diplomacy." Their base is a leafy estate overlooking the Potomac in Arlington, Virginia, and Jeff Sharlet is the only journalist to have reported from inside its walls.

The Family is about the other half of American fundamentalist power—not its angry masses, but its sophisticated elites. Sharlet follows the story back to Abraham Vereide, an immigrant preacher who in 1935 organized a small group of businessmen sympathetic to European fascism, fusing the far right with his own polite but authoritarian faith. From that core, Vereide built an international network of fundamentalists who spoke the language of establishment power, a "family" that thrives to this day. In public, they host Prayer Breakfasts; in private, they preach a gospel of "biblical capitalism," military might, and American empire. Citing Hitler, Lenin, and Mao as leadership models, the Family's current leader, Doug Coe, declares, "We work with power where we can, build new power where we can't."

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Given Hitler was right wing, and Stone left wing, I strongly doubt Stone is going to praise him, somehow.

Hitler writes from the grave

My Dear Juliusi,

Landsberg prison, which I entered on April 1, 1924, and where I wrote "Mein Kampf," is strangely similar to this place that I entered after shooting myself to death on the afternoon of April 30, 1945, and from where I write this letter. I found myself in both places involuntarily, yet they have each provided me with peace as well as perspective to write of the ideas that fueled our movement. I dedicated "Mein Kampf" to the dead heroes of the so-called Beer Hall Putsch who fell on Nov. 9, 1923, with loyal faith in the resurrection of their peopleii. I dedicate this letter to you along with the nine other heroes who were martyred at the Nuremberg tribunal and who joined me here on Oct. 16, 1946.

In the timeless eternity of our existence here, I often reflect upon my single biggest mistake – underestimating America. Early in 1941, Ribbentrop and I promised the Japanese foreign minister, Yosuke Matsuoka, that should Japan become engaged in a war against the United States, Germany would join the war immediately. However, to us, the Three-Power Pact had as its goal frightening and keeping America out of the war. I encouraged Japan to immediately take an active part in the war against Englandiii and not to provoke America. Although I didn't see much future for the Americans, I did not want them in the war until we had put down Russia.

Exactly one month after the Japanese betrayed me by attacking Pearl Harbor I told you all at our Berlin headquarters that America is a decayed country. My feelings about America were feelings of hatred and deep repugnance. Everything about the behavior of American society reveals that it's half Judaized and the other half Negrified. How can one expect a state like that to hold together?iv. Well, America did hold together and she seized victory from us. However, and this is important my friend, she has finally adopted many of the vital ideas for which we lived and died. Could not this be described as an ultimate victory?

Let me explain. First and foremost we were socialists. As national socialists, or Nazis, we knew that government must control the people. Thus, we understood that the old German tradition of citizens owning guns had to end. On March 18, 1938, we enacted our Law on Weapons and ruled that only government officials were allowed to own firearms. You can imagine my approval as I watched Sen. Thomas Dodd craft America's Gun Control Act of 1968 by having our own law of 1938 translated for him by an official of The Library of Congressv. My dear Julius, we can be proud of how similarly the two laws read. Those advocating gun control in America are naïve and well-meaning. They will help socialism prevail. We told the German people that gun-control laws were needed to curb gang activity and preserve democracy. What those laws really did was help our national socialist government prevail.

Do you remember, dear Julius, how we Nazis always understood that German citizens were our future and the destiny of our nation? We did everything possible to keep our people healthy. In the same way that wise farmers must accept responsibility for the health of their herds, we used the power of government to keep our flocks healthy. Since both mind and body were supposed to belong to the Fuhrer, we tried to criminalize the smoking of cigarettes.

Our Ministry of Science and Education ordered elementary schools to discuss the dangers of tobaccovi. Government-sponsored cultural and educational events were declared to be "smoke-free." In the late 1930s, we called for increased taxes on cigarettes and later instituted bans on cigarette advertising. I am most proud of the legislation we introduced prohibiting sales of cigarettes to minors. We set up counseling centers for the psychological treatment of smokers and we established smoke-free restaurants.

We soon managed to prohibit smoking on Luftwaffe properties and followed that with prohibiting smoking in post offices, government buildings and many workplaces. "No Smoking" cars were established on all German trains with fines levied upon violators, and in 1940 SS Chief Heinrich Himmler announced a smoking ban for all on-duty police and SS officers. Our comrade, Hermann Goring, decreed that soldiers may not smoke in public, and most of our cities banned smoking on public transport in order to protect the ticket takers from the hazards of second-hand smoke. We can indeed be proud that today America has also come to realize the importance of central government taking the initiative in regulating what people do not have the good sense to do voluntarily. We may have lost that battle of ideas in the middle of the 20th century, but with the help of foolish Americans, we Nazis are winning in the long run.

Do you remember that awkwardness in late 1940, my dear Julius? The American consulate in Leipzig reported to the American State Department that we were conducting compassionate euthanasia on the patients in the Grafeneck Mental Asylum in Wurttemberg. What uproar resulted in America! But now, one of America's most prestigious universities has appointed as professor of bioethics (whatever that is), one who openly advocates putting to death the mentally defective, the terminally ill and even severely disabled infants. He would give parents and doctors the right to actually kill – not just withhold treatment – imperfect newborns. What genius! The professor insists that a newborn has no greater right to life than pigs, cows and dogs. He is one of us, Julius.

And the best part of it is that those who yesterday loudly protested our comparatively mild policies in Wurttemberg have today not uttered even a squeak of protest. The ridiculous idea that all human life is sacred is now finally under attack in America. One president was re-elected even after he affirmed the legitimacy of exterminating infants during birth, and some American doctors in their province of Oregon have begun doing away with the elderly and weak. Yes, America is certainly coming around to our way of seeing things.

Finally, dear Julius, you will remember what I frequently said and wrote in "Mein Kampf": "The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the peoplevii." I said that as long as we explain how the government is working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation. It is truly heartwarming to see how well this lesson has been learned by some Americans. In the name of "the children," incursions into the private lives of American citizens have been made that we Nazis would have gazed at with open-mouthed admiration. Does it matter that our bodies failed as long as our spirit still triumphs?

I know you have a question to ask me, my friend: What about the Jews? After all, how can I say that much of America is adopting our views when Jews still exert such disproportionate influence in that country? Grasp the genius of your Fuhrer, my good friend. You see, dear Julius, with well-meaning earnestness, most American Jews are solidly behind the ideas I have been describing. In the mistaken belief that they are making America safer for minorities, many American Jews have joined those advocating ever larger and ever more powerful government. In reality, what they are doing is making America more hospitable to our form of socialism. When it eventually arrives, they too will see the real dangers, but by then, it will be too late.

Now they only see danger in illiterate thugs with no hair on their heads and in degenerate psychopaths with second-hand Nazi regalia. American Jews are frightened by a handful of the sort of lowlifes we used to execute, instead of being terrified of the real danger they themselves are helping to create – government with almost limitless power to tax and grow.

And it wasn't just the Jews. Joseph Goebbels put it quite correctly when he said, "The Fuhrer is deeply religious though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so, it is a branch of the Jewish raceviii." We can be confident that America will preserve and develop our Nazi ideas of human perfectability because of one stroke of genius that even Reich minister of propaganda, the great Joseph Goebbels, has to admire. Those who are advocating socialism in America, whether deliberately or inadvertently, have succeeded in turning the term "Nazi" into a slur that may only be used against conservatives. Never is it used against those on the left who are precisely the Americans doing most to advance our agenda. We are winning, Julius, thanks to those American Democrats, we are winning. Heil Hitler.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Oliver Stone has a history as well. He admires people like that.

And it isn't as if no one believe that Hitler has to be studied in terms of context. It is the only way to understand anything about him. Stalin also has to be studied in context. Neither of these guys were just thunderclaps from a blue sky.

I have no problem with understanding, but I fear what Oliver Stone will offer is justification, which is a different kettle of spoiled fish.

To put things to you directly... Finland was an ally of Hitler during the war. Did they have good reasons? Given the context, I kind of think there was valid logic for that. Finland didn't participate in Germany's stupidity (Most of Germany's allies were squicked out by what they saw going on, even the Japanese consular staff actively subverted the final solution) but given what Finland went through during the winter war.... it is understandable. Justified... That is a different question.

Do you pull this shit out of your ass? Oliver Stone loathes 'people like that'...

If you want to study people that glorify despots like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, look no farther that today's GOP...

Educate yourself about 'The Family'

They are the Family—fundamentalism's avant-garde, waging spiritual war in the halls of American power and around the globe. They consider themselves the new chosen—congressmen, generals, and foreign dictators who meet in confidential cells, to pray and plan for a "leadership led by God," to be won not by force but through "quiet diplomacy." Their base is a leafy estate overlooking the Potomac in Arlington, Virginia, and Jeff Sharlet is the only journalist to have reported from inside its walls.

The Family is about the other half of American fundamentalist power—not its angry masses, but its sophisticated elites. Sharlet follows the story back to Abraham Vereide, an immigrant preacher who in 1935 organized a small group of businessmen sympathetic to European fascism, fusing the far right with his own polite but authoritarian faith. From that core, Vereide built an international network of fundamentalists who spoke the language of establishment power, a "family" that thrives to this day. In public, they host Prayer Breakfasts; in private, they preach a gospel of "biblical capitalism," military might, and American empire. Citing Hitler, Lenin, and Mao as leadership models, the Family's current leader, Doug Coe, declares, "We work with power where we can, build new power where we can't."

Godwin'ed in 23!

 

[Bfgrn]

Oliver Stone has a history as well. He admires people like that.

And it isn't as if no one believe that Hitler has to be studied in terms of context. It is the only way to understand anything about him. Stalin also has to be studied in context. Neither of these guys were just thunderclaps from a blue sky.

I have no problem with understanding, but I fear what Oliver Stone will offer is justification, which is a different kettle of spoiled fish.

To put things to you directly... Finland was an ally of Hitler during the war. Did they have good reasons? Given the context, I kind of think there was valid logic for that. Finland didn't participate in Germany's stupidity (Most of Germany's allies were squicked out by what they saw going on, even the Japanese consular staff actively subverted the final solution) but given what Finland went through during the winter war.... it is understandable. Justified... That is a different question.

Do you pull this shit out of your ass? Oliver Stone loathes 'people like that'...

If you want to study people that glorify despots like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, look no farther that today's GOP...

Educate yourself about 'The Family'

They are the Family—fundamentalism's avant-garde, waging spiritual war in the halls of American power and around the globe. They consider themselves the new chosen—congressmen, generals, and foreign dictators who meet in confidential cells, to pray and plan for a "leadership led by God," to be won not by force but through "quiet diplomacy." Their base is a leafy estate overlooking the Potomac in Arlington, Virginia, and Jeff Sharlet is the only journalist to have reported from inside its walls.

The Family is about the other half of American fundamentalist power—not its angry masses, but its sophisticated elites. Sharlet follows the story back to Abraham Vereide, an immigrant preacher who in 1935 organized a small group of businessmen sympathetic to European fascism, fusing the far right with his own polite but authoritarian faith. From that core, Vereide built an international network of fundamentalists who spoke the language of establishment power, a "family" that thrives to this day. In public, they host Prayer Breakfasts; in private, they preach a gospel of "biblical capitalism," military might, and American empire. Citing Hitler, Lenin, and Mao as leadership models, the Family's current leader, Doug Coe, declares, "We work with power where we can, build new power where we can't."

Godwin'ed in 23!

Hey pea brain... the SUBJECT is Hitler...hello???

 

[RadiomanATL]

Do you pull this shit out of your ass? Oliver Stone loathes 'people like that'...

If you want to study people that glorify despots like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, look no farther that today's GOP...

Educate yourself about 'The Family'

They are the Family—fundamentalism's avant-garde, waging spiritual war in the halls of American power and around the globe. They consider themselves the new chosen—congressmen, generals, and foreign dictators who meet in confidential cells, to pray and plan for a "leadership led by God," to be won not by force but through "quiet diplomacy." Their base is a leafy estate overlooking the Potomac in Arlington, Virginia, and Jeff Sharlet is the only journalist to have reported from inside its walls.

The Family is about the other half of American fundamentalist power—not its angry masses, but its sophisticated elites. Sharlet follows the story back to Abraham Vereide, an immigrant preacher who in 1935 organized a small group of businessmen sympathetic to European fascism, fusing the far right with his own polite but authoritarian faith. From that core, Vereide built an international network of fundamentalists who spoke the language of establishment power, a "family" that thrives to this day. In public, they host Prayer Breakfasts; in private, they preach a gospel of "biblical capitalism," military might, and American empire. Citing Hitler, Lenin, and Mao as leadership models, the Family's current leader, Doug Coe, declares, "We work with power where we can, build new power where we can't."

Godwin'ed in 23!

Hey pea brain... the SUBJECT is Hitler...hello???

So? Just because the SUBJECT is Hitler is not an automatic Godwin.

A Godwin is when you start comparing your political opponents to Hitler or Nazi's that you have Godwin'ed.

Know your meme, ya over dramatic and hyperbolic fuck.

 

[Sunni Man]

By the end of Napolean's life. He was vilified throughout europe as an evil person.

But now in France he is hailed as a patriot and a hero.

As time goes by and generations pass.

Hitler will also be rehabilited. It's just the way things happen over time.

Firstly - you really haven't spent a lot of time in Germany recently, have you?

Hitler is vilified in Germany - he is remembered as the man who disgraced Germany, who destroyed the economy and the infrastructure, and stained the name of German people forever.

Sure, now he is disliked.

But I was talking about say a hundred years from now.

As generations pass and historical memories fade.

Hitler and the Nazis will be viewed differently.

 

[Harry Dresden]

This is the era that makes a hero of Dexter Morgan. Stone must figure that if Dexter is a hero, Pol Pot is an even greater hero.

but Dexter only kills those who need to be killed.....except for the few he fucked up on....but his intentions were good....

 

[Sunni Man]

A couple of hundred years from now.

Holocaust Museums will close from lack of attendance.

And the nation of Israel will just be a footnote in the history books.

By then the people of europe be allowed to judge Hitler's actions without breaking the law.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Given Hitler was right wing, and Stone left wing, I strongly doubt Stone is going to praise him, somehow.

You need to get out of your intellectual prison. A tyrant is a person who kills a person who thinks for himself. By wholesale lots. Don't get lost in weird distinctions without a difference.

Just because the uniforms were better designed does not mean Hitler was right wing. A centrally planned government controlled economy is not right wing.

If you get lost in irrelevancies like this you wind up excusing bad guys because they are your bad guys. Oliver Stone is famous for this kind of bad behavior. It is what made JFK such a horrible movie.

It is ok to distinguish in degree. A lot of times, you need to deal with the issue of a degree of difference, and make a deal with the devil on that basis. Which is what Churchill did in the summer of 1941. Heck that is what Finland did that summer as well. They just made different choices based on who was a greater direct threat.

You can't go the route of my psychotic megalomanic mass murderer is a good psychotic megalomanic mass murderer and yours isn't.

Now Napoleon, for all his bad reputation was a huge improvement on what went before. Especially for the french. The expenses of his wars as time went on were borne mostly by his catspaws. So judging Napoleon, we work on the basis degree rather than kind, and he was a better deal. Not always. He smashed everything in his path, the good as well as the bad, and he destroyed republics as well as kingdoms. And he fundamentally broke forever the power of the nobility all through europe. Because of him, kings in europe have no more relevance than the kings in a deck of cards. And for that, he earns a monument. But to judge his rule as anything but a negative in itself it to lose your moral compass.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hitler, Stalin and Mao are the Left's Holy Trinity

 

[Bfgrn]

Godwin'ed in 23!

Hey pea brain... the SUBJECT is Hitler...hello???

So? Just because the SUBJECT is Hitler is not an automatic Godwin.

A Godwin is when you start comparing your political opponents to Hitler or Nazi's that you have Godwin'ed.

Know your meme, ya over dramatic and hyperbolic fuck.

Hyperbole? Hey pea brain...THEY COMPARE themselves to Hitler and Mao!

Just because you choose to be an ignorant f_ck is YOUR problem...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the Family men who stood over John Ensign as he wrote a baldly insincere breakup letter to his mistress were naive about hearts that want what they want, they don't claim ignorance about the strongmen with whom they build bonds of prayer and foreign aid. They admire them. Counseling Rep. Tiahrt, Doug Coe offered Pol Pot and Osama bin Laden as men whose commitment to their causes is to be emulated. Preaching on the meaning of Christ's words, he says, "You know Jesus said 'You got to put Him before mother-father-brother sister? Hitler, Lenin, Mao, that's what they taught the kids. Mao even had the kids killing their own mother and father. But it wasn't murder. It was for building the new nation. The new kingdom."

Sex and power inside "the C Street House"
Sanford, Ensign, and other regulars receive guidance from the invisible fundamentalist group known as the Family

By Jeff Sharlet

 

[PixieStix]

Oliver Stone's 'Secret History' to put Hitler 'in context'
TCA -- Director Oliver Stone's upcoming Showtime documentary miniseries "Secret History of America" promises to put mass murderers such as Stalin and Hitler "in context."

"Stalin, Hitler, Mao, McCarthy -- these people have been vilified pretty thoroughly by history," Stone told reporters at the Television Critics Association's semi-annual press tour in Pasadena.

Oliver Stone's 'Secret History' to put Hitler 'in context'--The Live Feed | THR
At some point you just have to say What ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz7_3n7xyDg

Yeah, "WHATEVER" indeed. Oliver Stone is what is wrong with our education, the younger generation gets their history lessons from hollywood

"You cannot approach history unless you have empathy for the person you may hate," Stone said during the show's trailer, which promised to put historical villains "in context." ~Oliver IDIOT Stone~

Empathy???

 

[MaggieMae]

Interesting to see people rush to judge a concept without even reading the link...

"He's not saying we're going to come out with a more positive view of Hitler," emphasized professor Peter Kuznick, the lead writer on the project. "But we're going to describe him as a historical phenomenon and not just somebody who appeared out of nowhere."

History. Scary. Wrong. It must be stopped.

Looks to me like Stone simply wants to take the tome "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and make it so that the layperson can understand how it happened. Hitler WAS a phenomenon, but so is Satan.

 

[Big Fitz]

His next major project is to put Satan in context.

Last Oliver Stone movie I watched was "Wall Street", which was good, but still a tad looney.

 

[MaggieMae]

Hitler was greatly misunderstood

Probably so.

Certainly at the time I think very few people understood many aspects of his life which have since been discovered and put into a greater context. It is only when we read the Ian Kershaw biography's, and books such as those written by Hitler's secretary that we gain a fuller picture of the man.

Realistically, these days he'd probably have spent most of his life in psychiatric unit.

When I think about it, not many people (Americans) under 50 know much about that era other than the Nazis committed genocide against six million Jews. And, historically, that was (in Hitler's own words), the "final solution." So you need to go back and read what led up to it. And since fewer and fewer people like to read at all anymore, especially history, a movie would be the best tool.

 

[Sodafin]

But I was talking about say a hundred years from now.

As generations pass and historical memories fade.

Hitler and the Nazis will be viewed differently.

I suppose it is possible that in 100 years he will be hated even more than he is now, but I think that is far more likely than the idea that the man who destroyed his own country, and who took 8 million German lives, and who was clearly psychotic, will somehow be reborn a hero.

That is just a fantasy.

As you suggest - the only way that could happen is if people forget what he did.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Interesting to see people rush to judge a concept without even reading the link...

"He's not saying we're going to come out with a more positive view of Hitler," emphasized professor Peter Kuznick, the lead writer on the project. "But we're going to describe him as a historical phenomenon and not just somebody who appeared out of nowhere."

History. Scary. Wrong. It must be stopped.

Looks to me like Stone simply wants to take the tome "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and make it so that the layperson can understand how it happened. Hitler WAS a phenomenon, but so is Satan.

That may be, and in itself it is a laudable goal. But Stone is not the man I would trust to do the job Stone is already being devious in his explanation. I have never seen an honest discussion of the man that didn't start from a discussion of context.

 

[garyd]

The notion of Hitler as a rightwinger is largely a late thirties fiction created by the American Stalinist left -a rather large crowd at the time all things considered - who wished to differentiate between Hitler and Uncle Joe which differentiation was required only because they took different sides in the Spanish Civil War. Prior to that they had as much Fulsome prasie for Adolph and Benito as they had for Joe.

What people such as BFRGN don't know about history would fill a book though they'd refuse to read it.