Stock market up and down.

[Gunny]

Listen dumb ass. I used to play this game with my gop buddies. They'd show me when the market went up and i'd show him when it went down. For 8 yrs he used the market to show me the economy was strong. He didn't want to talk about employment, consumer confidence, inflation, etc.

The world dumped money into the stock market to prevent a complete meltdown. That's why it went off.

Are you suggesting our troubles are behind us?

Are you still saying this isn't a recession? If not for the economic stimulous package, we'd be in one, and it didn't solve the problem.

You really are the smartest dumb guy I know. You should listen more than you talk. Ever do sales? Use the 80 20 rule. Talk 20 percent of the time and listen 80, dumb ass.

You're one of the dumbest dumb guys I know. You make the average retard look like a Rhodes scholar.

Don't you need to get back to your Lego's?

 

[Paulie]

While I quite agree that something needed to be done, I wish I had your faith that what is being done is going to help.

I cannot wait to see "The PLAN".

I expect that they'll put the American taxpayer squarely at risk for picking up the lions dshare of the bill for this mess, and I am not at all sure even that is going to work because the USA is essantially broke.

Screw the people, screw the nation.

simply as that.

You can screw them a little of course, but when the greed of the ruling class is allowed to run rampant, as it has been for the last three decades or so, eventually the people are so hard pressed just to make ends meet, that the nation itself grow weak and poor...as it is becoming right now.

The plan is apparently 700 billion dollars, that even the MSM is now admitting will be printed.

Here's my unprofessional opinion on what will happen. We will stave off the "collapse" that may or may not have been imminent otherwise, and we will be entering into a period of inflation we've probably never seen before in our country's history.

I'd be buying precious metals if I were you.

 

[Diuretic]

What really would happen if we let it fail? It deserves to fail, it earned it?

Where the hell was the SEC, absent the past 5 years?

Can someone explain WHY this is happening and WHY NO ONE seems to have a handle on the whole truth and how much money is really at stake in this bail out?

And what is this bill that came about in 2000 that supposedly Phil Graham added and Clinton signed that caused or allowed this mess....who wrote this bill for Phil Graham? The banking industry??? Why did Clinton sign it and not veto it and was this the same bill of phil graham's that allowed the Enron loophole back in 2001?

I am hearing all kinds of stuff about this on the financial news but NO ONE seems to go in to it to explain it?

Won't our Credit rating being lowered hurt our country even more than bailing these suckers out because now interest rates will have to go up in order for people to buy our debt and eventually use all of our tax monies collected just to pay the interest on the debt?

And how many sets of books does the usa gvt have...?

I don't think Congress or the treasury should do anything until SOMEONE can tell us the whole story and know the whole story....jumping in to bail out is a mistake without knowing the amount it will take to bail out and WHY this happened in the first place....?

if it affects the whole WORLD why isn't the WHOLE WORLD helping to bail these suckers out?

It affects the rest of us because of the interlinking across the globe. The epicentre is Wall Street, the rest of us are having to watch out for our own victims. We didn't cause it, Wall Street caused it and the US government allowed it to happen, we're just wearing the effects.

 

[Diuretic]

While I quite agree that something needed to be done, I wish I had your faith that what is being done is going to help.

I cannot wait to see "The PLAN".

I expect that they'll put the American taxpayer squarely at risk for picking up the lions dshare of the bill for this mess, and I am not at all sure even that is going to work because the USA is essantially broke.

Screw the people, screw the nation.

simply as that.

You can screw them a little of course, but when the greed of the ruling class is allowed to run rampant, as it has been for the last three decades or so, eventually the people are so hard pressed just to make ends meet, that the nation itself grow weak and poor...as it is becoming right now.

In the wake of it, I mean when it's settled down, there has to be a reckoning. I was just listening to a BBC World Service programme discussing this. It seems that Lehmann Brothers people had a habit of taking money from their clients' accounts to pay bonuses to themselves. A British banker was explaining why this is wrong. I suspect apart from the various strange financial instruments that have been used by investment bankers and others that there has been some stupendous criminality at work as well.

 

[Vintij]

Once again, President Bush pushes the deficit beyond 10 trillion dollars total, and over 400 billion for this year alone. Jesus christ it must be nice to spend more money than any administration ever, and not have a plan to pay for it, or lower the debt in any way. That must be real nice.

Also, yes the tax payers are going to pay for this bail out but what is the difference between this bailout and the past 8 years of defense spending and other inflationary tactics? We all knew we were going to be tabbed with the bill at some point, whats another trillion dollars? This administration has got to be the worst at handling budgets because 8 years ago the dollar was not sinking to the toilet due to the printing of money, 8 years ago china did have us up to our necks in debt, 8 years ago we were exporting more than we are importing, 8 years ago we were not spending a fraction of what is going on today.

You can thank our fiscally ir-responsible president for that one.

On the bright side

I get to make money in the stock market thanks to widespread panic and volatility. I love it, people are so scared they dont know what to do with their money which drives stocks cheaper for me to buy! Thank you wall street!

 

[Paulie]

Once again, President Bush pushes the deficit beyond 10 trillion dollars total, and over 400 billion for this year alone. Jesus christ it must be nice to spend more money than any administration ever, and not have a plan to pay for it, or lower the debt in any way. That must be real nice.

Also, yes the tax payers are going to pay for this bail out but what is the difference between this bailout and the past 8 years of defense spending and other inflationary tactics? We all knew we were going to be tabbed with the bill at some point, whats another trillion dollars? This administration has got to be the worst at handling budgets because 8 years ago the dollar was not sinking to the toilet due to the printing of money, 8 years ago china did have us up to our necks in debt, 8 years ago we were exporting more than we are importing, 8 years ago we were not spending a fraction of what is going on today.

You can thank our fiscally ir-responsible president for that one.

On the bright side

I get to make money in the stock market thanks to widespread panic and volatility. I love it, people are so scared they dont know what to do with their money which drives stocks cheaper for me to buy! Thank you wall street!

I hope you're buying foreign equities. If you're staying in the US Dollar, you won't be making the kind of money you think you'll be making.

I mean, it's a no-brainer at this point.

 

[Charles_Main]

I hope you're buying foreign equities. If you're staying in the US Dollar, you won't be making the kind of money you think you'll be making.

I mean, it's a no-brainer at this point.

The only thing the Dollar has going for it, is economies around the world are faltering.

 

[Paulie]

The only thing the Dollar has going for it, is economies around the world are faltering.

Don't think for a SECOND that central banks around the world aren't debasing their own currencies to prop the Dollar up. Might sound ridiculous, but the world's bankers are all in collusion. Thanks to today's "global economy", it's entirely possible and definitely probable.

It's not like we don't purposely debase our own.

 

[sealybobo]

This is what you get when you have heavy-handed government intervention in supposedly free markets. This is socialism at its worst. Make no mistake, our financial system is in serious trouble and is now being back-stopped by the taxpayer.

It should not be a surprise to any that the markets have behaved exactly the way they did Monday -> Thursday, and then today. I covered the reasons in several posts on this forum.

Brian

A very small number of house republicans are still clinging to the FREE MARKET montra. Most agree bush and tom delay's deregulations led us to this meltdown. Corporations were allowed to do risky things they wouldn't have been able to do if they were properly regulated. You can hardly call the gop socialists, right?

And if you are arguing for freer markets and less regulations after last week, nothing will wake you up. This is why our country is divided. You are wrong but so stubborn and brainwashed that the republicans have your vote no matter how bad they screw up.

Luckily even underinformed voters get it. Perhaps you'd be better off forgetting everything you learned and start over. Assume what you know is bullshit and go from there. Don't tell us what you think went wrong, ask us what happened.

 

[Paulie]

A very small number of house republicans are still clinging to the FREE MARKET montra. Most agree bush and tom delay's deregulations led us to this meltdown. Corporations were allowed to do risky things they wouldn't have been able to do if they were properly regulated. You can hardly call the gop socialists, right?

And if you are arguing for freer markets and less regulations after last week, nothing will wake you up. This is why our country is divided. You are wrong but so stubborn and brainwashed that the republicans have your vote no matter how bad they screw up.

Luckily even underinformed voters get it. Perhaps you'd be better off forgetting everything you learned and start over. Assume what you know is bullshit and go from there. Don't tell us what you think went wrong, ask us what happened.

You're a wacko sealy. First of all, Brian has mentioned NUMEROUS times that this mess is not partisan. No particular side is any less culpable than the other.

But since you are so smart and everyone else isn't, how about explaining how more government intervention will help. Tell us why 700 billion dollars of printed money will help us. Explain how consumers aren't at fault for being too stupid to manage their own credit, and how deregulation is the REAL enemy.

You keep saying what the problem is, now step up and back it up like a man.

See if you can do it without blaming a side of the aisle, too. I know it will be tough, but just try.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's not about one or two companies failing, it's about the whole financial system of the world being under threat because of what has happened in te US. Not protecting the financial system is madness. Bush and Paulson have done exactly what they should do, they've used socialist principles to protect the current financial system. After it stabilises - and it's far from stable right now - there will have to be some clear-minded thinking by governments and institutions in the western world to see why this happened and regulate to ensure it doesn't happen again.

No, what is madness is forcing the financial giants to fund loans to low income, high risk lendees (for lack of a better word) and then blaming the administration when they fail.

We should have helped these guys out two years ago,when Bush wanted to...and Obama and those like him refused to do it.

 

[AllieBaba]

that's weird, why are "loans" and "income" in green?

 

[editec]

The plan is apparently 700 billion dollars, that even the MSM is now admitting will be printed.

Here's my unprofessional opinion on what will happen. We will stave off the "collapse" that may or may not have been imminent otherwise, and we will be entering into a period of inflation we've probably never seen before in our country's history.

I'd be buying precious metals if I were you.

Likely sage advice, Paul.

Yes, I concur with your theory.

These guys are NOT going to let the chips fall where they may because that way leads to depression.

Neither are they going to bail out the PEOPLE stuck in thse mortgages because they do not believe in the trickup theory at all.

So they will bail out private companies (the velvet glove is off and now we see what a sham their capitism has always been) and save their CLASS.

Inflation, massive and deadly, is the probable effect.

Alternatively should they not do that?

DEFLATION of the money supply is their alternate choice. We're already beginning to feel those effects as BANKS refuse to even give overnight loans to other banks.

Both "flations" kill economies.

 

[gonegolfin]

Likely sage advice, Paul.

Yes, I concur with your theory.

These guys are NOT going to let the chips fall where they may because that way leads to depression.

No, the decisions being made now do not prevent us from depression. It just may change the way we get there.

If we do have hyperinflation, how do you think this ends? At some point the currency becomes untransactable and deflation sets in. We then head into a massive a painful depression of the likes this country has never seen.

Alternatively, deflation could set in (without hyperinflation) because ... we have a derivatives collapse despite all of the new money being created (for example, interest rate swaps blow up). It could also set in because foreigners refuse to float our debt and interest rates skyrocket (also triggering defaults in interest rate swaps) before the government can adequately monetize its own debt. If it even decides to do so at that point (monetize its own debt) ... this is the scary part ... the elite may be sufficiently protected at that time such that they now allow the deflationary collapse to happen (as in the Great Depression). Remember that the banking elite would like to control when the eventual deflation (or correction if it is less severe) sets in. The gears must reverse course at some point. But if you can control when they do reverse course, you can make out OK while the masses are stuck with the bill.

This ends in depression as well.

If the problems are big enough here, all roads lead to depression ... whether we hyperinflate first or deflation immediately sets in.

DEFLATION of the money supply is their alternate choice. We're already beginning to feel those effects as BANKS refuse to even give overnight loans to other banks.
Both "flations" kill economies.

You are referring to the choice of deflation. I am referring to deflation happening regardless of the choice (or path) we are taking.


Brian

 

[Care4all]

No, what is madness is forcing the financial giants to fund loans to low income, high risk lendees (for lack of a better word) and then blaming the administration when they fail.

We should have helped these guys out two years ago,when Bush wanted to...and Obama and those like him refused to do it.

allie, no one forced anyone to loan to those that would default....

even the legislation that required banks and thrifts to consider the entire community that they were servicing for loans, it NEVER REQUIRED them to issue loans to everyone that walked through the door, NEVER specified the means banks should use to loan to the disadvantaged such as the adjustable rate mortgages, or the no money down mortgages, or the no proof of income/no money down/adjustable rate mortgages, or the no money down balloon mortgages etc....

THESE were all risky mortgages in which the Banks CHOSE to utilize with NO REGARDS to their own businesses nor the consequence of issuing so many of these risky loans were going to be to their businesses, and they did such, because they could get an immediate, profitable return, so they handed them out like candy without any sound business practice.

this mess was purely corporate greed. With cheap money (low fed rate) and deregulation of bank/insurance arena it was all pass go and collect their $200...a monopoly game to them, in which we, the tax payer, puts up real money to cover their bets and purchases.