Still one country after all!

[Zein El Nour]

Here is an interesting take on the conflict:

After 61 years, it has become apparent that the Palestinians and Israelis both believe that all of the land of historical Palestine believes to them. The Palestinians belief is evident in the rhetoric and the adherence to their Right of Return. They are backed by most of the Arab societies in that. Even Palestinians advocating the two states solution reiterate that they are conceding 78% of the land that rightfully belongs to them.

The Israeli attachment to ‘Erez Israel’ or Greater Israel is also clear in the inability to let go of the West Bank, which they perceive to be the historic nucleaus of the ancient Jewish Kingdom (Judea and Samaria). Even when the Israelis withdrew from Gaza they spoke about painful concessions: they believed that they are giving up parts of what belongs to them.

We all know by now that neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are going anywhere, most of them at least. Splitting it up into two independent countries was actually neither side’s idea. The prospects of this idea to work are no better than they were 72 years ago. So in reality, what we have here is one country with two ethnic groups fighting over how to run it. In a few centuries (should humanity survive that long) the Palestinian-Israeli conflict will be referred to as a civil war!

The country is too small to divide it into two. It is still one country after all!

 

[DavidS]

After 61 years, it has become apparent that the Palestinians and Israelis both believe that all of the land of historical Palestine believes to them.

Historical Palestine?

When was Palestine ever an independent country on its own?

Answer: Never

When was Israel an independent country on its own?

Answer: Around 4500 BC - 300 AD. 4800 years.

How many countries do Arab Muslims have?

Answer: 22

How many countries do Jewish people of all ethnicities have?

Answer: Excluding Israel, 0.

I think this is pretty cut and dry. Tell the Arab countries to accept the other Arabs and give them 2 years to get out of the land. And have the Arabs, with all of their oil wealth, pay for the right of return... the right for the Arabs to return to Arab land.

Oh and there were two Kingdoms. The Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judea. Sumeria was ancient Mesopatomia, i.e. Iraq.

 

[Zein El Nour]

LOL.

It is really pointless to argue with someone clearly as ignorant as a melon, but for fun's sake I am going to answer few of your "statements"?:

After 61 years, it has become apparent that the Palestinians and Israelis both believe that all of the land of historical Palestine believes to them.

Historical Palestine?

Yes my sweet melon, it was called Palestine during the Ottoman era and British mandate at least (you know the land has a name even if it is part of a larger empire. On small example:

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated 2 November 1917) was a classified formal statement of policy by the British government stating that "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" with the understanding that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
( i won't put in a reference because you are not worth it! Just look it up)

When was Palestine ever an independent country on its own?

Answer: Never

So what? Not only is this irrelevant to what the post is talking about, but it is also flawed: independent countries or nation states did not appear in the whole middle east before the the 20th century.

When was Israel an independent country on its own?

Answer: Around 4500 BC - 300 AD. 4800 years.

LOL LOL LOL
This is the best one.... So according to you the Biblical Kingdom of Israel was actually there 3000 years before Judaism... Please just go to any elementary history book before citing dates...

How many countries do Arab Muslims have?

Answer: 22

How many countries do Jewish people of all ethnicities have?

Answer: Excluding Israel, 0.

Actually there are 24 Arab states (excluding Palestine)

How many countries for Arab Jews? 22 (Jews living in Arab and other countries see themselves as citizens of those countries! Unless you consider American Jews not American! Your statement is clearly a racist one)

And also...
How many countries for Palestinians are there? 0

I think this is pretty cut and dry. Tell the Arab countries to accept the other Arabs and give them 2 years to get out of the land. And have the Arabs, with all of their oil wealth, pay for the right of return... the right for the Arabs to return to Arab land.

As I said in the post, the Palestinians are not going anywhere! You have to live with that. And if you did not notice, you are advocating ethnic cleansing!

Oh and there were two Kingdoms. The Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judea. Sumeria was ancient Mesopatomia, i.e. Iraq.

[/QUOTE]

Again, my melon, just check any elementary book:

Samaria, or the Shomron (Hebrew: שֹׁמְרוֹן‎, Standard Šoməron Tiberian Šōmərôn; Arabic: سامريّون‎, Sāmariyyūn or ألسامرة, as-Samarah – also known as جبال نابلس, Jibal Nablus; Greek: Σαμάρει&#945 is a term used for the mountainous region in northern Israel roughly corresponding to the northern part of the West Bank.

Samaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So listen you ignorant little infant. I made this post to have a serious discussion. Clearly you are unable or incapable of doing that because you are an ignorant fascist. So before you get your basic information straight it will be a waste of time to even read your posts.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Here is an interesting take on the conflict:

After 61 years, it has become apparent that the Palestinians and Israelis both believe that all of the land of historical Palestine believes to them. The Palestinians belief is evident in the rhetoric and the adherence to their Right of Return. They are backed by most of the Arab societies in that. Even Palestinians advocating the two states solution reiterate that they are conceding 78% of the land that rightfully belongs to them.

The Israeli attachment to ‘Erez Israel’ or Greater Israel is also clear in the inability to let go of the West Bank, which they perceive to be the historic nucleaus of the ancient Jewish Kingdom (Judea and Samaria). Even when the Israelis withdrew from Gaza they spoke about painful concessions: they believed that they are giving up parts of what belongs to them.

We all know by now that neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are going anywhere, most of them at least. Splitting it up into two independent countries was actually neither side’s idea. The prospects of this idea to work are no better than they were 72 years ago. So in reality, what we have here is one country with two ethnic groups fighting over how to run it. In a few centuries (should humanity survive that long) the Palestinian-Israeli conflict will be referred to as a civil war!

The country is too small to divide it into two. It is still one country after all!

No, what we have is one country and some unincorporated land on which some stateless people live. Calling these people Palestinians does mean there really is a state of Palestine. The Palestinians have consistently preferred to remain stateless if the alternative is to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel. In 1948, they refused the UN's offer of an Arab state living in peace with a Jewish state, and as your post points out, the insistence to this day on a right of return is, in effect, a rejection of a two state solution.

The alternative to a peaceful two state solution is not one state west of the Jordan river, but one state, Israel, and some unincorporated land on which some stateless people live. This was true in 1948, and it will be true in 2048, in 2148 and beyond.

 

[editec]

There is no solution to this problem until the Jews of Israel and the Arabs of Palestine demand it of their leaders.

The UN cannot impose it, and neither the Jews alone nor the Palestinians alone, can arrive at peace.

Two peoples, each with a percieved legitmate claim to the same land = trouble.

 

[Shogun]

Oh looky.. David the jew felt the urge to stick his hooked fucking nose into another thread trying to invalidate palis..

then again.. this IS the same guy who voted yesterday that he would like to eliminate muslims from the face of the Earth.. not to mention the infamous calling for nuking muslims gathered for holiday (a circumstnacethat Princess and the rest of our zionists insist was "merely joking")


Of course it's one fucking state. Of COURSE it should be shared equally between jews and palis. No shit. But don't let a jewish zionist hear you say that out loud... the ONLY acceptable solution for them is an ironic final solution that maintains a superior status for JEWS ONLY in the land. This is why we see david the fat jew post so vehemently that palis have never mattered.. while defending stone age real estate based on burning bush myths, no less.


The ONLY road to peace is a single state of Palisrael shared by both jews and arabs equally under democratic rules that apply with no ethnic preference.


But, to make this punchline rich.. WATCH who it is that insists that saying as much amounts to wanting to see dead jews floating in the sea (jillian) while the usual suspects toss out scarlet As for the mere idea of making israel act towards it's ****** class like America acts towards our jewish populations.

 

[Shogun]

Here is an interesting take on the conflict:

After 61 years, it has become apparent that the Palestinians and Israelis both believe that all of the land of historical Palestine believes to them. The Palestinians belief is evident in the rhetoric and the adherence to their Right of Return. They are backed by most of the Arab societies in that. Even Palestinians advocating the two states solution reiterate that they are conceding 78% of the land that rightfully belongs to them.

The Israeli attachment to ‘Erez Israel’ or Greater Israel is also clear in the inability to let go of the West Bank, which they perceive to be the historic nucleaus of the ancient Jewish Kingdom (Judea and Samaria). Even when the Israelis withdrew from Gaza they spoke about painful concessions: they believed that they are giving up parts of what belongs to them.

We all know by now that neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are going anywhere, most of them at least. Splitting it up into two independent countries was actually neither side’s idea. The prospects of this idea to work are no better than they were 72 years ago. So in reality, what we have here is one country with two ethnic groups fighting over how to run it. In a few centuries (should humanity survive that long) the Palestinian-Israeli conflict will be referred to as a civil war!

The country is too small to divide it into two. It is still one country after all!

No, what we have is one country and some unincorporated land on which some stateless people live. Calling these people Palestinians does mean there really is a state of Palestine. The Palestinians have consistently preferred to remain stateless if the alternative is to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel. In 1948, they refused the UN's offer of an Arab state living in peace with a Jewish state, and as your post points out, the insistence to this day on a right of return is, in effect, a rejection of a two state solution.

The alternative to a peaceful two state solution is not one state west of the Jordan river, but one state, Israel, and some unincorporated land on which some stateless people live. This was true in 1948, and it will be true in 2048, in 2148 and beyond.

that is exactly like suggesting that native americans on a fucking reservation refuse to become a state because they are bitter about the trail of tears so it's their fucking fault that they havent polished the turd of their ethnic domination by another ethnicity.


Hell, notice how this bastard INSISTS on a JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL with no less ethnic drive than David Duke at a fucking white power conference. If white america held the same position then we'd literally have to go to war with israel over Florida, New York and Holywood.

 

[editec]

Oh looky.. David the jew felt the urge to stick his hooked fucking nose into another thread trying to invalidate palis..

You really make youself sound like a horses ass when you do that, you know.

Seriously, Shogun, you're beginning to piss me off as much as DavidS has.

The two of you ought to get a room.

 

[Shogun]

Oh looky.. David the jew felt the urge to stick his hooked fucking nose into another thread trying to invalidate palis..

You really make youself sound like a horses ass when you do that, you know.

Seriously, Shogun, you're beginning to piss me off as much as DavidS has.

The two of you ought to get a room.

I'm pissing YOU off? Big fucking deal, mr chamberlain. When you start posting your fucking input when Ole Dave is busy calling for the extermination of Muslims and the bombing of arabs during religious ceremonies then perhaps a statement like that will have more teeth than a denture wearing granny looking to pacify jews long enough to feel tritely self righteous, as it is now.

 

[Gurdari]

The country is too small to divide it into two. It is still one country after all!

I would wipe Israel off the map - just like West Germany was wiped off the map... and make one nation, called 'Holy land' in Aramaic or something so that it touches on the SHARED core of the three religions who cherish that place. Go back far enoughand they all believe in the same God, and want the same things (respect for god, peace, etc.).

 

[Shogun]

The country is too small to divide it into two. It is still one country after all!

I would wipe Israel off the map - just like West Germany was wiped off the map... and make one nation, called 'Holy land' in Aramaic or something so that it touches on the SHARED core of the three religions who cherish that place. Go back far enoughand they all believe in the same God, and want the same things (respect for god, peace, etc.).

careful. you are flirting with antisemitism.

 

[DavidS]

Yes my sweet melon, it was called Palestine during the Ottoman era and British mandate at least (you know the land has a name even if it is part of a larger empire. On small example:

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated 2 November 1917) was a classified formal statement of policy by the British government stating that "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" with the understanding that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
( i won't put in a reference because you are not worth it! Just look it up)

That's not "historical." That's not even 100 years ago. And that version of Palestine was under the control of the British Empire. It was not an independent country.

So what? Not only is this irrelevant to what the post is talking about, but it is also flawed: independent countries or nation states did not appear in the whole middle east before the the 20th century.

Really. Tell me what the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel were.

Need a map?

And

LOL LOL LOL This is the best one.... So according to you the Biblical Kingdom of Israel was actually there 3000 years before Judaism...

Not 3000. Judaism wasn't created 1500 years ago. I was mistaken it wasn't 4500 years ago it was around 4000-3900 years ago. Abraham came to Canaan around 1900 BC. Give or take a couple hundred years or so.

Moses, who received the Ten Commandments and the Torah from G-d, did not live until 1300 - 1150 BC. It wasn't until Moses received the Torah and the Ten Commandments that Judaism was founded. Before then, the Hebrews were polytheists.

Please just go to any elementary history book before citing dates...

According to you, Judaism was founded 1500 years ago and you had no idea that Israel was settled by Abraham and his army long before Moses was around and you want ME to read a history book?

Actually there are 24 Arab states (excluding Palestine) How many countries for Arab Jews? 22 (Jews living in Arab and other countries see themselves as citizens of those countries! Unless you consider American Jews not American! Your statement is clearly a racist one)

How many Christian nations for Jews? Several. How many Buddhist nations for Jews? How many Catholic and on and on and on. You think it's okay for the Jewish people not to have their rightful home where they existed for thousands of years, where Moses led his people out slavery of Egypt and into the promised land and you're calling me racist?

And also... How many countries for Palestinians are there? 0

There's no such thing as a Palestinian! They're Arabs! You already told me there were 24 countries for Arabs.

I think this is pretty cut and dry. Tell the Arab countries to accept the other Arabs and give them 2 years to get out of the land. And have the Arabs, with all of their oil wealth, pay for the right of return... the right for the Arabs to return to Arab land.

As I said in the post, the Palestinians are not going anywhere!

Don't be so sure.

You have to live with that. And if you did not notice, you are advocating ethnic cleansing!

No I'm not. I'm advocating the Arabs get up and leave our home as they are no longer welcome and return back to their own homes. I am not saying they should be killed.

Oh and there were two Kingdoms. The Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judea. Sumeria was ancient Mesopatomia, i.e. Iraq.

Again, my melon, just check any elementary book:

Samaria, or the Shomron (Hebrew: שֹׁמְרוֹן‎, Standard Šoməron Tiberian Šōmərôn; Arabic: سامريّون‎, Sāmariyyūn or ألسامرة, as-Samarah – also known as جبال نابلس, Jibal Nablus; Greek: Σαμάρει&#945 is a term used for the mountainous region in northern Israel roughly corresponding to the northern part of the West Bank.

Samaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sumer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sumer (Sumerian: ������ ki-en-ĝir15[1][2], Akkadian: Šumeru; possibly Biblical Shinar) was a civilization and a historical region located in Southern Iraq (Mesopotamia), known as the Cradle of civilization. It lasted from the first settlement of Eridu in the Ubaid period (late 6th millennium BC) through the Uruk period (4th millennium BC) and the Dynastic periods (3rd millennium BC) until the rise of Babylon in the early 2nd millennium BC. The term "Sumerian" applies to all speakers of the Sumerian language.

So listen you ignorant little infant. I made this post to have a serious discussion. Clearly you are unable or incapable of doing that because you are an ignorant fascist. So before you get your basic information straight it will be a waste of time to even read your posts.

I doubt you're trying to have a serious discussion very highly. I did not insult you in my previous post, whereas you just insulted me.

 

[DavidS]

There is no solution to this problem until the Jews of Israel and the Arabs of Palestine demand it of their leaders.

The UN cannot impose it, and neither the Jews alone nor the Palestinians alone, can arrive at peace.

Two peoples, each with a percieved legitmate claim to the same land = trouble.

Palestine was only an Arab area for 200 years or so. If they lay claim to 200 years, surely many other previous organizations can lay claim to the land because for existing there longer. And if we want to give the organization that existed there longer than any other one, the land is for the Jews, for we existed there for thousands of years.

Think about it - from the time Christ was born to today one country remained under the Jewish people. What other country do you know of today that is as it was 2000 years ago?

It's quite amazing.

 

[Zein El Nour]

No, what we have is one country and some unincorporated land on which some stateless people live. Calling these people Palestinians does mean there really is a state of Palestine. The Palestinians have consistently preferred to remain stateless if the alternative is to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel. In 1948, they refused the UN's offer of an Arab state living in peace with a Jewish state, and as your post points out, the insistence to this day on a right of return is, in effect, a rejection of a two state solution.

The alternative to a peaceful two state solution is not one state west of the Jordan river, but one state, Israel, and some unincorporated land on which some stateless people live. This was true in 1948, and it will be true in 2048, in 2148 and beyond.

So what would you like to call them? I always thought that every people decide their own name. So if they call themselves Palestinians, then they are Palestinians, regardless of what anyone else thinks! Or is that too much for them as well?

The Palestinians have preferred to remain stateless? What kind of racist remark is this? It is along the same line as "Palestinians want their children to be killed". This dehumanization of Palestinians or anyone else needs to be stopped!

I am not discussing who is right and who is wrong here (I have a very strong opinion for that matter, which I'll keep for other threads). The fact of the matter is that the Palestinians are there, and they will stay there (except maybe if another ethnic cleansing spree is carried out, as DavidS advocates).

You and the Israelis are still unable to grasp this fact and the fact that Palestinians also believe that this land as their own (all of it), again regardless of what anyone thinks and of the worn out "Palestine never existed mantra".

 

[DavidS]

So what would you like to call them? I always thought that every people decide their own name. So if they call themselves Palestinians, then they are Palestinians, regardless of what anyone else thinks! Or is that too much for them as well?

Please tell me what differentiates these so-called "Palestinians" from Arabs that live in Saudi Arabia other than the fact of their geographical location that would distinguish these people as separate from the other Arabs. Are they genetically different than Arabs? Are they religiously different than other Arabs?

Who's to say that Arab Muslims living in Gaza and the West Bank have the right to their own state vs. the Jews living in Iran and declaring independence? Should I get a bunch of my friends together and declare ourselves the 51st state of America or hell, our own little country with me as their leader?

Why do these Arabs need their own country when Arabs already have two dozen of their own other countries? So what if they lived there for a couple hundred years? The Muslims in Detroit have lived there for a couple hundred years also - do you support giving them their own state?

Please tell me - why do these people need their own state if they are no different from every other Arab living in the other Arab countries other than just "they're there." Being in a geographical location is not something anyone would take seriously as a prerequisite for having your own country.

The Palestinians have preferred to remain stateless? What kind of racist remark is this?

Please read the Camp David Peace Accords of 2001. They were given everything they wanted and they rejected it and chose violence.

It is along the same line as "Palestinians want their children to be killed". This dehumanization of Palestinians or anyone else needs to be stopped! I am not discussing who is right and who is wrong here (I have a very strong opinion for that matter, which I'll keep for other threads). The fact of the matter is that the Palestinians are there, and they will stay there (except maybe if another ethnic cleansing spree is carried out, as DavidS advocates).

So you would be okay if Mexico decided to let 40 million of its own people leave today and inhabit Texas, Arizona and New Mexico and letting them declare their own country as New New Mexico?

In America, we are supposed to deport illegal immigrants. Is this ethnic cleansing?

You and the Israelis are still unable to grasp this fact and the fact that Palestinians also believe that this land as their own (all of it), again regardless of what anyone thinks and of the worn out "Palestine never existed mantra".

The Arabs can believe whatever they wish to. Does that make whatever they believe a fact? If they believe in the tooth fairy and they grab your children by the hair and point guns to their faces and they yell to your children "Believe in the tooth fairy or else!" Would you be okay with that? If not, would you be okay with them killing your children because you didn't accept the belief of the tooth fairy? Because it's basically the same thing here... a rocket recently destroyed a kindergarten school in Israel. Thankfully the school was empty at the time. And please don't change the subject with Israel's military action. This is about the Arabs threatening to kill or trying to kill or in some instances actually killing the Israeli children because they don't believe the Arabs have a right to Israeli land.

See - the way I work is if someone threatens to harm my children, I'm going to remove their ability to do so by any means necessary.

 

[toomuchtime_]

No, what we have is one country and some unincorporated land on which some stateless people live. Calling these people Palestinians does mean there really is a state of Palestine. The Palestinians have consistently preferred to remain stateless if the alternative is to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel. In 1948, they refused the UN's offer of an Arab state living in peace with a Jewish state, and as your post points out, the insistence to this day on a right of return is, in effect, a rejection of a two state solution.

The alternative to a peaceful two state solution is not one state west of the Jordan river, but one state, Israel, and some unincorporated land on which some stateless people live. This was true in 1948, and it will be true in 2048, in 2148 and beyond.

So what would you like to call them? I always thought that every people decide their own name. So if they call themselves Palestinians, then they are Palestinians, regardless of what anyone else thinks! Or is that too much for them as well?

The Palestinians have preferred to remain stateless? What kind of racist remark is this? It is along the same line as "Palestinians want their children to be killed". This dehumanization of Palestinians or anyone else needs to be stopped!

I am not discussing who is right and who is wrong here (I have a very strong opinion for that matter, which I'll keep for other threads). The fact of the matter is that the Palestinians are there, and they will stay there (except maybe if another ethnic cleansing spree is carried out, as DavidS advocates).

You and the Israelis are still unable to grasp this fact and the fact that Palestinians also believe that this land as their own (all of it), again regardless of what anyone thinks and of the worn out "Palestine never existed mantra".

Before the modern state of Israel was created, all the people, Jews, Muslims/Arabs, Christians, etc., who lived in the Mandate were called Palestinians. Since that time the Jews, some of the Muslims/Arabs and others became Israelis and those who remained in the land west of the Jordan River but did not become Israelis can be called Palestinians as a geographic designation, but that does not imply there is or ever was a state of Palestine.

That the Palestinians have chosen to remain stateless rather than to accept a peaceful two state solution is indisputable. They clearly refused that UN's offer of an Arab state next to the Jewish state of Israel in 1948, and as your original post points out, the insistence on a right of return is tantamount to a rejection of a peaceful two state solution. Since Israel will continue to exist as a Jewish state, as a practical matter, the only alternative to a peaceful two state solution is for the Palestinians to remain stateless.

Q.E.D.: The Palestinians choose to remain stateless.

 

[Shogun]

ya.. funny how a zionist trail of tears might cause a marginalized population to refuse to settle for merely reservation land.


I know I know.. jews can do no wrong and are too chosen to be capable of racism for the sake of zion. *yawn*


Tell me, jew... how much does it scare you to consider the idea of israel treating it's non-jews as equally as WHITE AMERICA let's you function in the US?


It's knee slapping hilarious to watch all the local jews scatter like cockroaches after the light gets turned on at this simple question.

 

[Xenophon]

A one state solution is an impossibility, neither side would agree to such a thing.

 

[Shogun]

A one state solution is an impossibility, neither side would agree to such a thing.

if you will it, it is no dream. A famous jew said that. there was a time when a lot of realities were assumed to be impossible. From black american equality to the creation of israel itself... such an attitude is nothing more than a cop out.

 

[Neser Boha]

Palestine was only an Arab area for 200 years or so. If they lay claim to 200 years, surely many other previous organizations can lay claim to the land because for existing there longer. And if we want to give the organization that existed there longer than any other one, the land is for the Jews, for we existed there for thousands of years.

Think about it - from the time Christ was born to today one country remained under the Jewish people. What other country do you know of today that is as it was 2000 years ago?

It's quite amazing.

This dude's delusional.