Steve Gardner was there with Kerry

[ScreamingEagle]

Steve Gardner ACTUALLY served under Kerry on his Swift Boat for the first 2 months of the 4 short months that Kerry served in Vietnam. He is a member of the Swift Boat vets group putting on the ad.

He says that when they attacked a sampan they killed a man who had raised a gun at them and a boy (probably the man's son). He said that Kerry reported that there were an extra 4 people on the sampan which did not exist. He said that Kerry also did not report that they had killed a boy.

Gardner also says that they were never in Cambodia on the Swift boat as Kerry claimed. He states that the Swift Boats were not sent into the Cambodia area.

O'Reilly had him on his show today but barely allowed the guy to state his case and then proceeded to give a spiel about being fair to both sides which just was a bunch of hot air and did not address Garder's accusations in any depth or meaningful way.

 

[smirkinjesus]

Steve Gardner ACTUALLY served under Kerry on his Swift Boat for the first 2 months of the 4 short months that Kerry served in Vietnam. He is a member of the Swift Boat vets group putting on the ad.

He says that when they attacked a sampan they killed a man who had raised a gun at them and a boy (probably the man's son). He said that Kerry reported that there were an extra 4 people on the sampan which did not exist. He said that Kerry also did not report that they had killed a boy.

Gardner also says that they were never in Cambodia on the Swift boat as Kerry claimed. He states that the Swift Boats were not sent into the Cambodia area.

O'Reilly had him on his show today but barely allowed the guy to state his case and then proceeded to give a spiel about being fair to both sides which just was a bunch of hot air and did not address Garder's accusations in any depth or meaningful way.

Where was Bush when all this was going on? Oh that's right, he was **********edited by moderator************

 

[Avatar4321]

Where was Bush when all this was going on? Oh that's right, he was drinking and snorting coke.

First, id like to see you back that up.

Second, its irrelevant. Kerry is using his Vietnam service as a reason to elect him president. Members of his own crew and unit are claiming that his version of his vietnam service is innaccurate.

If you are going to say something, deal with the testimony that contradicts Kerry. If you cant refute it, just keep your mouth shut, you just make yourself look dumber otherwise.

 

[Annie]

Where was Bush when all this was going on? Oh that's right, he was drinking and snorting coke.

You of course have something to back this up with? Link, something?

 

[smirkinjesus]

First, id like to see you back that up.

Second, its irrelevant. Kerry is using his Vietnam service as a reason to elect him president. Members of his own crew and unit are claiming that his version of his vietnam service is innaccurate.

If you are going to say something, deal with the testimony that contradicts Kerry. If you cant refute it, just keep your mouth shut, you just make yourself look dumber otherwise.

Oh, I never look dumb, you should know that by now. As I've said many times already, this is an assinine strategy to use against Kerry. Kerry risked his life defending his country, Bush did not. That's all there is to this, it will backfire on Bush.

 

[Annie]

Oh, I never look dumb, you should know that by now. As I've said many times already, this is an assinine strategy to use against Kerry. Kerry risked his life defending his country, Bush did not. That's all there is to this, it will backfire on Bush.

Trust me, you do look dumb. We do know that and you have written a slanderous post. Now, if you have nothing to back this up, why don't you edit or delete, so I don't have to?

 

[smirkinjesus]

Trust me, you do look dumb. We do know that and you have written a slanderous post. Now, if you have nothing to back this up, why don't you edit or delete, so I don't have to?

Hey, if everyone can throw around some smut about Kerry, why can't I do the same about Bush without getting my post "edited"? You really want me to go find you a link with the same level of substance as the crap previously posted about Kerry? There's a few thousand out there. Which one do you want?

 

[Avatar4321]

Oh, I never look dumb, you should know that by now. As I've said many times already, this is an assinine strategy to use against Kerry. Kerry risked his life defending his country, Bush did not. That's all there is to this, it will backfire on Bush.

Again you ignore the fact that Bush flew in one of the most dangerous planes in the military at the time and every time he got in for training he risked his life for his country. You also ignore the fact that he could have been deployed at any time.

And of course you ignore the fact that Kerry volunteered for the swift boats because they werent going to be in harms way. It wasnt until after Kerry got the assignment that they put sent them into hostile areas. then you ignore the fact that Kerry is basing his claim on the Presidency on his four months in Vietnam, hence any eye witnesses that contradict Kerry's account of what happened are completely relevant to the discussion since its Kerry himself that brought the topic up. If Bush was running on his National Guard service you might have an argument. He isnt. President Bush is running on the fact that because of his administration two nations have been liberated and three hostile nations are now at the negociation table.

Again its better to be silent and been seen as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[Tom E]

Yes I agree smirk does look dumb slandering someone like that.

To get back to the subject of breakfest food ( waffles ) Kerry in his new book states that he was someplace else during Christmas, not in Cambodia as he testified in Congress.

 

[Annie]

Hey, if everyone can throw around some smut about Kerry, why can't I do the same about Bush without getting my post "edited"? You really want me to go find you a link with the same level of substance as the crap previously posted about Kerry? There's a few thousand out there. Which one do you want?

Yep. something that backs up:

Originally Posted by smirkinjesus
Where was Bush when all this was going on? Oh that's right, he was drinking and snorting coke.

Substantial source, not an echo.

 

[Avatar4321]

Hey, if everyone can throw around some smut about Kerry, why can't I do the same about Bush without getting my post "edited"? You really want me to go find you a link with the same level of substance as the crap previously posted about Kerry? There's a few thousand out there. Which one do you want?

First, there is no smut about Kerry.

Second, Kerry and Edwards invited the American people to learn about Kerry from the people that served with him. The people that served in his unit are speaking and now he is trying to shut them up with law suits. what does that tell you?

Third, if you want something of the level of whats being said about Kerry then you need to find some eyewitnesses. I know thats a difficult concept for michael moore worshippers who think they can totally fabricate things and call it a documentary but those are the standards of the real world.

 

[Annie]

First, there is no smut about Kerry.

Second, Kerry and Edwards invited the American people to learn about Kerry from the people that served with him. The people that served in his unit are speaking and now he is trying to shut them up with law suits. what does that tell you?

Third, if you want something of the level of whats being said about Kerry then you need to find some eyewitnesses. I know thats a difficult concept for michael moore worshippers who think they can totally fabricate things and call it a documentary but those are the standards of the real world.

I'm waiting ever so patiently for his response and linky!

 

[Annie]

Still waiting. . . .

 

[smirkinjesus]

Again you ignore the fact that Bush flew in one of the most dangerous planes in the military at the time and every time he got in for training he risked his life for his country. You also ignore the fact that he could have been deployed at any time.

And of course you ignore the fact that Kerry volunteered for the swift boats because they werent going to be in harms way. It wasnt until after Kerry got the assignment that they put sent them into hostile areas. then you ignore the fact that Kerry is basing his claim on the Presidency on his four months in Vietnam, hence any eye witnesses that contradict Kerry's account of what happened are completely relevant to the discussion since its Kerry himself that brought the topic up. If Bush was running on his National Guard service you might have an argument. He isnt. President Bush is running on the fact that because of his administration two nations have been liberated and three hostile nations are now at the negociation tabl



Again its better to be silent and been seen as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Good lord. This is what you guys sound like to me, I'm not a democrat, maybe I should be... I don't totally hate Bush, but here goe

"Everything that Kerry could have ever possibly done, had alterior sneaky motives! In fact, he volunteered to go to Vietnam because he knew it was perfectly safe! He never would have gone, had he known it was risky! And Bush?..... every synapse firing in Bush's Brain is like, totally eminating Goodness, and Patriotism and love for America! Bush would have gone to Vietnam, but he knew it was totally safe! Therefore, why bother if he can't risk his life for the good of his country, for the good of us all? He's better then that!!! So instead, he chose to fly really really scary risky planes, that's far far braver then John Kerry! Everything bad said about Kerry is TRUE! tehehe! Everything Bad about Bush, is like so totally false....ooohhhh bad."

It's like listening to valley girls around here sometimes. I mean, I can see fault with Kerry, I can see plenty of fault with Bush. But the crap around here is so thick, the only think that keeps me going is occasionally, once in awhile a "Conservative" on here will post something that really does make me think... So I guess you have to wade through a tub of shit before you get to a gem.

 

[Yurt]

Good lord. This is what you guys sound like to me, I'm not a democrat, maybe I should be... I don't totally hate Bush, but here goe

"Everything that Kerry could have ever possibly done, had alterior sneaky motives! In fact, he volunteered to go to Vietnam because he knew it was perfectly safe! He never would have gone, had he known it was risky! And Bush?..... every synapse firing in Bush's Brain is like, totally eminating Goodness, and Patriotism and love for America! Bush would have gone to Vietnam, but he knew it was totally safe! Therefore, why bother if he can't risk his life for the good of his country, for the good of us all? He's better then that!!! So instead, he chose to fly really really scary risky planes, that's far far braver then John Kerry! Everything bad said about Kerry is TRUE! tehehe! Everything Bad about Bush, is like so totally false....ooohhhh bad."

It's like listening to valley girls around here sometimes. I mean, I can see fault with Kerry, I can see plenty of fault with Bush. But the crap around here is so thick, the only think that keeps me going is occasionally, once in awhile a "Conservative" on here will post something that really does make me think... So I guess you have to wade through a tub of shit before you get to a gem.

Uh, once again you through around thoughts that make random sense, if at all. Please provide a link to your above assertions. Also, why have you not in substance addressed the fact that if indeed Kerry is lying or had lied, this is bad for the country. This guy's whole platform is his "great" military service. If his platform is false, then how much should we trust the rest?

 

[Annie]

Uh, once again you through around thoughts that make random sense, if at all. Please provide a link to your above assertions. Also, why have you not in substance addressed the fact that if indeed Kerry is lying or had lied, this is bad for the country. This guy's whole platform is his "great" military service. If his platform is false, then how much should we trust the rest?

we're all waiting, not that patiently anymore....

 

[Avatar4321]

Good lord. This is what you guys sound like to me, I'm not a democrat, maybe I should be... I don't totally hate Bush, but here goe

"Everything that Kerry could have ever possibly done, had alterior sneaky motives! In fact, he volunteered to go to Vietnam because he knew it was perfectly safe! He never would have gone, had he known it was risky! And Bush?..... every synapse firing in Bush's Brain is like, totally eminating Goodness, and Patriotism and love for America! Bush would have gone to Vietnam, but he knew it was totally safe! Therefore, why bother if he can't risk his life for the good of his country, for the good of us all? He's better then that!!! So instead, he chose to fly really really scary risky planes, that's far far braver then John Kerry! Everything bad said about Kerry is TRUE! tehehe! Everything Bad about Bush, is like so totally false....ooohhhh bad."

It's like listening to valley girls around here sometimes. I mean, I can see fault with Kerry, I can see plenty of fault with Bush. But the crap around here is so thick, the only think that keeps me going is occasionally, once in awhile a "Conservative" on here will post something that really does make me think... So I guess you have to wade through a tub of shit before you get to a gem.

Amazing how you can write all of that without saying a darn thing thats relevent to the conversation.

John Kerry is basing his presidential bid on his time in Vietnam. A large group of Veterans who served in his unit, including one of his commanders and the doctor who treated him for one of his purple hearts are challenging John Kerry's account of what happened in Vietnam. This is a challenge to his basis to be President. It is completely relevant.

President Bush's National Guard service, which contrary to your opinion is no less honorable than Kerry's service, is irrelevant because this isnt the basis of his claim to be President. President Bush's bid for relection is based on the liberation of two nations, and strong Foriegn policy against terrorism. Plus his domestic agenda for the second term.

Furthermore no one here has critisized Kerry for going to Vietnam. So your argument that people are finding fault for him on serving is irrelevant. What is happening is that Eye witnesses are reporting things that are contrary to what Kerry claims to have done and they did not recieve a favorable impression of Kerry during his service. When are you going to address this???? Enough of the straw men and changing the topic. Just deal with what the Veterans who served with Kerry are saying.

Last, I would say that the fact that John Kerry served in Vietnam does not excuse him for his actions returning home any more than Benedict Arnold being a war hero excused him for his betrayal later.

Now will you please try to deal with the issues rather than going on a "I hate Bush" rant?

 

[smirkinjesus]

Still waiting. . . .

Please,

Here is a bs link to Bush drunkeness:
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#drunk

Here is a bs link to Bush's cocaine use:
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#cocaine

Bolth are just as substantive as the crap y'all post about Kerry's medals & Vietnam service. It's not difficult to dig up dirt on anyone. Such is the state of the political diologue these days. I'm done with my rant. If you "edit" this one, being that it is of the same caliber as everyone else's, then I'm done with this site.

 

[Annie]

Please,

Here is a bs link to Bush drunkeness:
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#drunk

Here is a bs link to Bush's cocaine use:
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#cocaine

Bolth are just as substantive as the crap y'all post about Kerry's medals & Vietnam service. It's not difficult to dig up dirt on anyone. Such is the state of the political diologue these days. I'm done with my rant. If you "edit" this one, being that it is of the same caliber as everyone else's, then I'm done with this site.

Geez, doesn't pass the bonafides. If you have something pm me. I'm going to edit that post. I'll be more than happy to unedit, if you can come up with a respectable source.

 

[Annie]

Please,

Here is a bs link to Bush drunkeness:
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#drunk

Here is a bs link to Bush's cocaine use:
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#cocaine

Bolth are just as substantive as the crap y'all post about Kerry's medals & Vietnam service. It's not difficult to dig up dirt on anyone. Such is the state of the political diologue these days. I'm done with my rant. If you "edit" this one, being that it is of the same caliber as everyone else's, then I'm done with this site.

Why would I edit this? The links stand for themselves and are not on the level of those regarding Kerry's medals or his Vietnam service record. Let's see, we have MSN, Instapundit, NYT, WaPo, Newsweek, different calibre altogether. Big L for you!