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jillian said:Hatred? No. If they practiced their religion as they see fit and don't try to make their will into *my* law, I have no problem with anyone's belief.
Thanks, though.
T-Bor said:A freaking egg isnt human life you dolt !!! It is extremism.
Hobbit said:See, this is where you, through no fault of your own, are misinformed. Nobody's blocking stem cell research, just federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. <SNIP> The moral argument is also valid. I want abortion to stop. If 'valuable' medical research results from abortion, how much harder do you think it will be to stop?
Hobbit said:See, this is where you, through no fault of your own, are misinformed. Nobody's blocking stem cell research, just federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. So far, adult and umbilical stem cells have actually pulled off several medical miracles and get a crapload of private funding because of how valuable the research is. All forms of stem cell research have been going on for 50 years. During the same time that adult and umbilical cells have been producing miracles, embryonic stem cells have only been able to cause INCREDIBLY malignant cancer. If there was half as much of a future in embryonic stem cells as its proponents would have you believe, they'd be in the same boat as adult and umbilical stem cells, chasing investors off with a stick. The moral argument is also valid. I want abortion to stop. If 'valuable' medical research results from abortion, how much harder do you think it will be to stop?
Gem said:This is an issue where I really am not informed enough to have a firm opinion. I think that if we can find cures for diseases that debilitate and destroy life we should, but I am uncomfortable with taking steps down the road of "creating life to destroy it."
Don't get me wrong, I do think that private enterprise should be able to use aborted fetuses or donated eggs to do research. However, what if we find out that while those things were helpful...allowing those eggs to develop just a few weeks longer would yield even greater results...the end to Sickle Cell, Diabetes, etc.? Would we, as we are now, find ourselves rationalizing allowing the egg to develop just a bit more...just a few weeks closer to having a heartbeat...what if we found out that if we waited just a bit longer we could cure even more diseases...cancer, AIDS, heart disease? Once we had gone all but a step away would it be easier to go that far?
Again, dont misunderstand...I am a supporter of privately funded stem cell research, I think...I just am nervous about the implications of this step - where it will take us.
For my final thought and questions:
I'm not quite sure why stem cell research has to receive federal funding. Can someone explain that to me?
I mean, if it is the "miracle" so many claim it is...than surely private companies would be clamoring to use it to cure as many as diseases as possible...if only to benefit from the billions of dollars such cures would mean for their company.
Why would we, with out budget as strapped as it is, start funding this research rather than leaving it to a private sector? I'm not asking to be confrontational...I really just don't understand.
As I'm thinking about it now...I don't understand why, if the gov't funds stem cell research it wouldn't then be called on to fund groundbreaking cancer research, AIDS research, Diabetes research, obesity research, heart disease research, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Are we doing this already and I'm just ill-informed? If so, why are we doing this? Why is the government in the medical research business? Why aren't private medical research companies doing this and our government doing the job they were intended to do which is NOT medical research?
theHawk said:There is zero reason every taxpayer should be forced to fund this. If you believe its a good cause,....*gasp*....DONATE your own damned money to the cause.
What a concept eh?
That's a very big if. In fact, I'd say it's virtually impossible. At the point you're talking about, the embryo's stem cells have already largely differenciated, and are far less useful than 'pure' stem cells.Gem said:Don't get me wrong, I do think that private enterprise should be able to use aborted fetuses or donated eggs to do research. However, what if we find out that while those things were helpful...allowing those eggs to develop just a few weeks longer would yield even greater results...the end to Sickle Cell, Diabetes, etc.? Would we, as we are now, find ourselves rationalizing allowing the egg to develop just a bit more...just a few weeks closer to having a heartbeat...what if we found out that if we waited just a bit longer we could cure even more diseases...cancer, AIDS, heart disease? Once we had gone all but a step away would it be easier to go that far?
What? So we can take these steps, just as long as their taken in some private corporation with no oversight?Gem said:Again, dont misunderstand...I am a supporter of privately funded stem cell research, I think...I just am nervous about the implications of this step - where it will take us.
Stem cell research, for all its potential, is still in the early stages of research. The science is still in the early stages, and requires billions of dollars of funding over the next 5-10 years. No corporation, save maybe the oil companies, has that kind of dough. The government, through institutions such as the National Science Foundation, the Department of Energy, and the National Institute of Health, has traditionally funded scientific projects in the early stages that, even if they hold potential, are too expensive or too long term for private entities to fund. Often when research carryed out by private corporations, colleges, universities, or government labs begins to reach fruitation, the private sector moves in a commercializes the research. We've done this since the beginning of the Cold War, stems cells are following a path no different then the one follwed by, say, nuclear power plants or fire alarms.Gem said:I'm not quite sure why stem cell research has to receive federal funding. Can someone explain that to me?
Again, private companies don't have the resources to hire and pay the hundreds and thousands of scientists required to see this research through at an optimum level. Even with government funding, it will take several years before stem cells can become viable for many diseases.Gem said:I mean, if it is the "miracle" so many claim it is...than surely private companies would be clamoring to use it to cure as many as diseases as possible...if only to benefit from the billions of dollars such cures would mean for their company.
The reason we started funding the sciences back in the late 40's was to get ahead in the Cold War. The government, through various departments and institutions provides grants that allow scientists to work without improper influence from corporations or groups wanting to fasttrack to the market. The only major requirements for obtaning funds is that the grantee must work on the project specified, must strive to produce science, and must share his results with the rest of the scientific community, not stuff them into the corporate vault. This last measure has proven to be especially important as it allows numerous minds to look at the same data, confirm it, draw more conclusions, and build on it. Because of the manner of open inquiry mandated by the government, American scientists have been able to build on each others work and build an unquestioned scientific lead. Despite consisting of only 1/20th of the world's population, America produces nearly 1/2 of the world's science (a figure that has actually declined sharply since the 80s). Obviously, this open air of inquirement has allowed the American scientific community to blossom. The problem with private sector since, although it too plays a major role in our scientific community, is that it is uncapable of funding the amount of basic science the government does. Private corporations also tend to focus on short and medium term development at the most. The reason we know so much about heart disease and blood pressure is not because of the private sector, but because of a 60 year comprehensive government funded study of tens of thousands of Americans who volunteered to assist. Corporations don't have the resources to pull that sort of stuff, and even if they could, rather than sharing the information for the greater good, most would keep it as a company secret.Gem said:Why would we, with out budget as strapped as it is, start funding this research rather than leaving it to a private sector? I'm not asking to be confrontational...I really just don't understand.
We already are.Gem said:As I'm thinking about it now...I don't understand why, if the gov't funds stem cell research it wouldn't then be called on to fund groundbreaking cancer research, AIDS research, Diabetes research, obesity research, heart disease research, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Are we doing this already and I'm just ill-informed?
Technically, the government isn't 'doing' medical research. It is providing funds to colleges and universities, as well as private corporations, to perform studies and basic research. As well, the government runs numerous labs responsible for housing scientifically valuable, but expensive, facilities such as wind tunnels. The government provides funding because it both protects the lives of US citizens, something that I believe involves more than killing terrorists, and advances the position of the United States as the world's leading science power.Gem said:If so, why are we doing this? Why is the government in the medical research business? Why aren't private medical research companies doing this and our government doing the job they were intended to do which is NOT medical research?
jillian said:Hatred? No. If they practiced their religion as they see fit and don't try to make their will into *my* law, I have no problem with anyone's belief.
Thanks, though.
rtwngAvngr said:According to jillian and grump, respect for human life is Christian extremism. How sick is that?
Avatar4321 said:It is pretty sick. But then everything they disagree with Christianity about is based on the respect for human life.
Avatar4321 said:It is pretty sick. But then everything they disagree with Christianity about is based on the respect for human life.
)Abbey, am I an evil lefty who hates all Christians?Abbey Normal said:Nice way of putting it in a nutshell, re: all lefties.
(That reminded me of something: Do they still sell Nutshell study guides for law school?
Mr.Conley said:Abbey, am I an evil lefty who hates all Christians?
Mr.Conley said:That's a very big if. In fact, I'd say it's virtually impossible. At the point you're talking about, the embryo's stem cells have already largely differenciated, and are far less useful than 'pure' stem cells.
What? So we can take these steps, just as long as their taken in some private corporation with no oversight?
Stem cell research, for all its potential, is still in the early stages of research. The science is still in the early stages, and requires billions of dollars of funding over the next 5-10 years. No corporation, save maybe the oil companies, has that kind of dough. The government, through institutions such as the National Science Foundation, the Department of Energy, and the National Institute of Health, has traditionally funded scientific projects in the early stages that, even if they hold potential, are too expensive or too long term for private entities to fund. Often when research carryed out by private corporations, colleges, universities, or government labs begins to reach fruitation, the private sector moves in a commercializes the research. We've done this since the beginning of the Cold War, stems cells are following a path no different then the one follwed by, say, nuclear power plants or fire alarms.
Again, private companies don't have the resources to hire and pay the hundreds and thousands of scientists required to see this research through at an optimum level. Even with government funding, it will take several years before stem cells can become viable for many diseases.
The reason we started funding the sciences back in the late 40's was to get ahead in the Cold War. The government, through various departments and institutions provides grants that allow scientists to work without improper influence from corporations or groups wanting to fasttrack to the market. The only major requirements for obtaning funds is that the grantee must work on the project specified, must strive to produce science, and must share his results with the rest of the scientific community, not stuff them into the corporate vault. This last measure has proven to be especially important as it allows numerous minds to look at the same data, confirm it, draw more conclusions, and build on it. Because of the manner of open inquiry mandated by the government, American scientists have been able to build on each others work and build an unquestioned scientific lead. Despite consisting of only 1/20th of the world's population, America produces nearly 1/2 of the world's science (a figure that has actually declined sharply since the 80s). Obviously, this open air of inquirement has allowed the American scientific community to blossom. The problem with private sector since, although it too plays a major role in our scientific community, is that it is uncapable of funding the amount of basic science the government does. Private corporations also tend to focus on short and medium term development at the most. The reason we know so much about heart disease and blood pressure is not because of the private sector, but because of a 60 year comprehensive government funded study of tens of thousands of Americans who volunteered to assist. Corporations don't have the resources to pull that sort of stuff, and even if they could, rather than sharing the information for the greater good, most would keep it as a company secret.
We already are.
Technically, the government isn't 'doing' medical research. It is providing funds to colleges and universities, as well as private corporations, to perform studies and basic research. As well, the government runs numerous labs responsible for housing scientifically valuable, but expensive, facilities such as wind tunnels. The government provides funding because it both protects the lives of US citizens, something that I believe involves more than killing terrorists, and advances the position of the United States as the world's leading science power.
Oh rtwng, I don't want to play "evil mad scientist", I want to play "evil mad scientist" on you! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (key horror music)rtwngAvngr said:COme off it conley. It's sick. It's using people as lab rats. You lefty academics just want more money so you can play "evil mad scientist". Why do so many people think evil is enlightenment?
Mr.Conley said:Oh rtwng, I don't want to play "evil mad scientist", I want to play "evil mad scientist" on you! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (key horror music)
Btw, I know where you live. We are watching, always watching.
Mr.Conley said:Abbey, am I an evil lefty who hates all Christians?
I can deal with that, just as long as I get to keep posting with you.rtwngAvngr said:You can dismiss me and make fun. I understand. It's the only way you can deal with your own evil, rotten inner core of elitist selfishness. Mock away. I don't mind. You're the one who's going to hell.
