Stay the course or not stay the course ?

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by ekrem, Nov 8, 2006.

  1. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    I am not that familiar with US inner politics, as you are Americans.
    But i know that Rumfsfeld was one of the big "makers" of US foreign policy.
    He defended many times the US course in the region and especially Iraq-war.

    Now his department as defence minister was long overdue, as he and his plan failed when we see what is going on in Iraq.
    150.000 Soldiers, as a dwarf-army was not enough and dissolveing Iraqi army and police was a big fault.
    Politicians who fail their policy have to be fired from their position. So it is in every country. Now it is the point where it happened in the USA.

    So the USA accepts there is a failure and now fires Rumsfeld. Is George Bush despite his "staying the course" quotes now accepting that what is going on in Iraq is a failure?
    And what do you think what will come next, how the USA will act in the Mid-East and what it will do in Iraq especially?

    Firing Rumfsfeld is a sign, that USA will not stay the course much long in Iraq anymore. Or do you interpret firing of Rumfsfeld in an other way, i am just asking.
    And which options has the USA to improve situation in Iraq.
    I know that this Forum is mostly Republican, so please answer not in past but in present (based on Rumfsfeld firing as defence minister and planner of Iraq-war).
     
  2. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    As i see it, US policy was under 2 terms of George Bush made of a inner circle of some elite people (Bush-Cheney-Rumfsfeld clique). And they gave not much about other views. Even if the course of this elite was wrong they were stolid as they had the only power in Washington and therefore were able to form foreign policy like they wanted.

    Now the Rumfsfeld-clique, picture them as a walnut, was broken up.
    Will now come a time, where George Bush has to make compromisses and listen to others in Washington, too? Like Democrats or Republicans in his own party, who are not to be classified as Neocons and were therefore not in that power-elite so far under Bush government?

    Senator John McCain, friend of Turkey:
    http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=30010

    For example, there are some positive words from Richard Lugar and others, too, who were quoted as saying to intensify cooperation with Turkey in reliance to Iraq in last months.
    Off course Rumfsfeld-clique did not listened, as power structure in Washington gave them no reason to listen.

    I know of Baker commission and that the results will in the near future made public. So far i read from Baker-commission that Kirkuk should fell to Sunnite Arabs, if Iraq would be partitioned, which we, as Turkey, could live with.
    But our first position is not to split Iraq. And if USA splits Iraq in a way which would be a disadvantage for Turkey, like integration of Kirkuk to Kurdish regional government, Turkey would off course intervene. No matter what.
    Because such partition plans are long time, even in effect when US Soldiers are home by their family.
    Turkey would have to live with such a situation and there is no need to live with a situation which is against Turkish interests. Agree ?

    Maybe US policy within Washington itself will become now multi-polar and away from Bush-Unilateralism.
    Form my standpoint this is good, as current US government is stolid. From outside view.
    But better is to abolish unilateralism of US policy in Mid-East, too. And make over-regional cooperation to improve situation in Iraq, for example with Turkey like John McCain said. For such thing to happen Washington has to get multi-polar and away from Bush-unilateralism.
     
  3. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    JOHN MCCAIN TO EUROPE
    April 28, 2006

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,413817,00.html

    Reality is, that Turkey intensified during Bush era cooperation with Iran and Syria because of Bush-government's Kurdish policy. Which was a uniting factor between Turkey, Iran and Syria. And boosted cooperation from zero to never before dimensions within 3 years.

    Every time John McCain speaks of Turkey, be it general or special on Iraq, it is very positive and i think, if he will run for president in 2008 that USA-Turkey relations will improve again significant.
    What now remains is: Waiting for Bush to pack his bag and leave White House and Senator John McCain announcing his candidature for 2008.
    The first step with Rumfsfeld was done.

    So you recognized so far, that i am no fan of unilateralist Bush.
    Be it Clinton woman or John McCain, we can live good with both and both will make good relations to Turkey again like in pre-Iraq war.
    So counting the days. Tic-Tac.
     
  4. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    George Bush in a long 6 years in office was just 1 time in Turkey.
    And that even in 2004. A long 4 years after he got into White House.

    Even in pre-Iraq war negotiations with Turkey small politicians only came to Turkey.
    And that visit in January 2004 was combined with the Istanbul-NATO Summit.
    Maybe this Summit was not in Turkey, Bush would have not come to Turkey.
    He stayed, made some good propaganda photos in front of a mosque and went away. So this visit was neutrally speaking "neutral" to both relations:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    McCain is completely other, in 6 years he was multiple times in Turkey.
    The last time in August 2006, together with Lindsay Graham.
    But most times he came alone, or with him were only unimpressive Senators so that Turkish press was not reporting over them.
    But the last visit they reported about Lindsay Graham from Carolina besides John McCain, too.
     
  5. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    Rumsfeld resigned. He was not fired.
     
  6. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    I don't see your point.
     
  7. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    Yes, obiously in diplomatical circles this term is used.
     
  8. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I think it's that Graham and McCain are recognizing that Turkey should be considered a major power?
     
  9. William Joyce
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    William Joyce Chemotherapy for PC

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    These men were the white gentiles whose strings were pulled by a group of Jews who wanted Iraq invaded to secure Israel's peace. They were Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Scooter Libby, etc. They made their intentions clear in a paper written for the Israeli government years before 9/11.

    Your own nation finds itself heavily influenced by crypto-Jews who ally with Israel for certain war games and water, but torn in the other direction by Islam.
     
  10. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    No it is, like Bush himself, we Turks vice-versa give a shit on him, too.
    Other people, other image, other relations and trust that was my motive to mention McCain, as i there is a high chance that he will become next President of USA.
    So easy, Kathianne.
    I am an outsider, and that i write in a Pro-Bush Republican forum is just "luck". :mm:
    But for me, as an foreigner, Pro-Democrat Pro-Republican thing is not important, it is inner american question.
    For me counts Pro-Turkey or not.
     

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