Statement Issued on Fortune's "Fantasy" article by Oversight Committee.

[tinydancer]

Very curt and unflattering response to the Fortune article.

" Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious.

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation - and multiple distortions.

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information

It did not, however, explain this material to its readers.

The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico.

The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department."



Smokin!

Whole article at TPM:

Fortune: ATF Never Purposefully Let Guns Walk During Fast And Furious | TPMMuckraker

 

[asaratis]

Do you think we'll get retractions from the numbnuts that started three threads here denying that it happened?

 

[OODA_Loop]

Nixon stepped on his dick the same way.

 

[Vast LWC]

Very curt and unflattering response to the Fortune article.

" Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious.

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation - and multiple distortions.

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information

It did not, however, explain this material to its readers.

The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico.

The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department."



Smokin!

Whole article at TPM:

Fortune: ATF Never Purposefully Let Guns Walk During Fast And Furious | TPMMuckraker

ROFL.

Where to start...

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation

That's all they have for "factual errors"? Really? That has nothing to do with the story.

That's like telling a story about a house that's infested with rats, and then someone coming along and saying the story they told is false because "the storyteller said the house had blue trim, when it was clearly green".

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

A report from a Murdoch paper talking about the possible criminal charges that may stem FROM THE STORY THEY'RE REFUTING. How does that contradict anything?

It's a political statement, from the same people that are conducting the political witch-hunt in question.

Why the hell would anyone believe them over an impartial investigative source?

 

[Darkwind]

Very curt and unflattering response to the Fortune article.

" Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious.

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation - and multiple distortions.

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information

It did not, however, explain this material to its readers.

The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico.

The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department."



Smokin!

Whole article at TPM:

Fortune: ATF Never Purposefully Let Guns Walk During Fast And Furious | TPMMuckraker

ROFL.

Where to start...

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation

That's all they have for "factual errors"? Really? That has nothing to do with the story.

That's like telling a story about a house that's infested with rats, and then someone coming along and saying the story they told is false because "the storyteller said the house had blue trim, when it was clearly green".

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

A report from a Murdoch paper talking about the possible criminal charges that may stem FROM THE STORY THEY'RE REFUTING. How does that contradict anything?

It's a political statement, from the same people that are conducting the political witch-hunt in question.

Why the hell would anyone believe them over an impartial investigative source?

Pretty lame rebuttal.

People under threat of indictment and are considered players in the scandal are NOT credible witnesses.....But you knew that, right?

 

[tinydancer]

Very curt and unflattering response to the Fortune article.

" Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious.

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation - and multiple distortions.

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information

It did not, however, explain this material to its readers.

The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico.

The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department."



Smokin!

Whole article at TPM:

Fortune: ATF Never Purposefully Let Guns Walk During Fast And Furious | TPMMuckraker

ROFL.

Where to start...

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation

That's all they have for "factual errors"? Really? That has nothing to do with the story.

That's like telling a story about a house that's infested with rats, and then someone coming along and saying the story they told is false because "the storyteller said the house had blue trim, when it was clearly green".

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

A report from a Murdoch paper talking about the possible criminal charges that may stem FROM THE STORY THEY'RE REFUTING. How does that contradict anything?

It's a political statement, from the same people that are conducting the political witch-hunt in question.

Why the hell would anyone believe them over an impartial investigative source?

CBS conducted an impartial investigation.

For example Fortune calls the "gun control issue" far fetched. Correct?

CBS has documents that prove otherwise.

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

And here are the pertinent emails.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

And one more time....

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell:

"Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

CBS has the emails for crying out loud. Not far fetched. Truth and in their own words captured in emails.

Circle jerk all you want on the Fortune article, but it doesn't touch CBS's investigation into Fast and Furious.

I can't believe I just typed that. I never thought I'd say that in my life. But it's true.

 

[Vast LWC]

Pretty lame rebuttal.

People under threat of indictment and are considered players in the scandal are NOT credible witnesses.....But you knew that, right?

Pretty lame OP.

Everyone who could possibly a witness in this case would be considered a "player" in the scandal, including all the people who have testified so far.

So... what "credible witnesses" do you have to present?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Where's the popcorn?

This is gonna get better and better.

Thing is, pubs have been working toward only one end - burying President Obama, even if it means burying the United Stated. The pubs have lied about so many different things, there is NOTHING they could say now that I would believe.

 

[Vast LWC]

CBS conducted an impartial investigation.

For example Fortune calls the "gun control issue" far fetched. Correct?

CBS has documents that prove otherwise.

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

And here are the pertinent emails.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

And one more time....

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell:

"Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

CBS has the emails for crying out loud. Not far fetched. Truth and in their own words captured in emails.

Circle jerk all you want on the Fortune article, but it doesn't touch CBS's investigation into Fast and Furious.

I can't believe I just typed that. I never thought I'd say that in my life. But it's true.

Those are the exact same documents that Fortune also reviewed, and Fortune's investigation was just as in depth, if not more, than CBS's.

And CBS is not the organization issuing the letter you quoted in the OP, are they?

 

[tinydancer]

Pretty lame rebuttal.

People under threat of indictment and are considered players in the scandal are NOT credible witnesses.....But you knew that, right?

Pretty lame OP.

Everyone who could possibly a witness in this case would be considered a "player" in the scandal, including all the people who have testified so far.

So... what "credible witnesses" do you have to present?

The CBS investigation that has been ongoing and is still continuing.

Bitch at them. And by no means is CBS a right wing lunatic conspiracy media outlet.

 

[The T]

Pretty lame rebuttal.

People under threat of indictment and are considered players in the scandal are NOT credible witnesses.....But you knew that, right?

Pretty lame OP.

Everyone who could possibly a witness in this case would be considered a "player" in the scandal, including all the people who have testified so far.

So... what "credible witnesses" do you have to present?

Holder that is going DOWN tomorrow.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Very curt and unflattering response to the Fortune article.

" Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious.

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation - and multiple distortions.

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information

It did not, however, explain this material to its readers.

The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico.

The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department."



Smokin!

Whole article at TPM:

Fortune: ATF Never Purposefully Let Guns Walk During Fast And Furious | TPMMuckraker

ROFL.

Where to start...

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation

That's all they have for "factual errors"? Really? That has nothing to do with the story.

That's like telling a story about a house that's infested with rats, and then someone coming along and saying the story they told is false because "the storyteller said the house had blue trim, when it was clearly green".

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

A report from a Murdoch paper talking about the possible criminal charges that may stem FROM THE STORY THEY'RE REFUTING. How does that contradict anything?

It's a political statement, from the same people that are conducting the political witch-hunt in question.

Why the hell would anyone believe them over an impartial investigative source?

Right, a Time-Warner magazine is an 'impartial' investigative source? Gimme a break, they're so fucking YELLOW they won't even attribute their quotes.

FAIL.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Very curt and unflattering response to the Fortune article.

" Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious.

It contains factual errors - including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation - and multiple distortions.

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information

It did not, however, explain this material to its readers.

The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico.

The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department."



Smokin!

Whole article at TPM:

Fortune: ATF Never Purposefully Let Guns Walk During Fast And Furious | TPMMuckraker

ROFL.

Where to start...



That's all they have for "factual errors"? Really? That has nothing to do with the story.

That's like telling a story about a house that's infested with rats, and then someone coming along and saying the story they told is false because "the storyteller said the house had blue trim, when it was clearly green".

It also hides critical information from readers - including a report in the Wall Street Journal - indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges.

A report from a Murdoch paper talking about the possible criminal charges that may stem FROM THE STORY THEY'RE REFUTING. How does that contradict anything?

It's a political statement, from the same people that are conducting the political witch-hunt in question.

Why the hell would anyone believe them over an impartial investigative source?

Right, a Time-Warner magazine is an 'impartial' investigative source? Gimme a break, they're so fucking YELLOW they won't even attribute their quotes.

FAIL.

Oh, so its not true?

And you have LINKS that PROVE that, right?

PROOF please.

Thanks.

 

[Vast LWC]

The CBS investigation that has been ongoing and is still continuing.

Bitch at them. And by no means is CBS a right wing lunatic conspiracy media outlet.

I didn't say at any point that they were. Nor would I attempt to make that claim.

I'm saying that there are apparently two sides to this story, and that any statement from a group of politicians with axes to grind should be taken with a very large grain of salt.

 

[tinydancer]

CBS conducted an impartial investigation.

For example Fortune calls the "gun control issue" far fetched. Correct?

CBS has documents that prove otherwise.

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

And here are the pertinent emails.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

And one more time....

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell:

"Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

CBS has the emails for crying out loud. Not far fetched. Truth and in their own words captured in emails.

Circle jerk all you want on the Fortune article, but it doesn't touch CBS's investigation into Fast and Furious.

I can't believe I just typed that. I never thought I'd say that in my life. But it's true.

Those are the exact same documents that Fortune also reviewed, and Fortune's investigation was just as in depth, if not more, than CBS's.

And CBS is not the organization issuing the letter you quoted in the OP, are they?

That statement is from the Oversight Committee and I stated that.

Tell me when did Fortune's investigation start? I have the first report that I can find on CBS from February 2011. Puts them on the case at almost 18 months.

And Fortune has this:

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies.

And the timing of this release by Fortune has Axlerod's hands all over it.

The problem the administration has is that even without releasing any documents there is a mountain of evidence that already has been compiled.

In the grand scheme of what is about to take place in Washington, that piece of fiction that Fortune put out won't mean jack shit except to left wing bloggers and posters.

 

[Vast LWC]

That statement is from the Oversight Committee and I stated that.

Tell me when did Fortune's investigation start? I have the first report that I can find on CBS from February 2011. Puts them on the case at almost 18 months.

And Fortune has this:

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies.

And the timing of this release by Fortune has Axlerod's hands all over it.

The problem the administration has is that even without releasing any documents there is a mountain of evidence that already has been compiled.

In the grand scheme of what is about to take place in Washington, that piece of fiction that Fortune put out won't mean jack shit except to left wing bloggers and posters.

Apparently, the rest of the people involved with the actual operation agree with the Fortune article, as opposed to the one guy that spoke to CBS.

For instance, William Newell, the agent in charge:

Agent who started ‘Fast and Furious’ defends gunrunning operation - The Washington Post

Newell says he and his agents were hamstrung by the U.S. attorney’s office. He said that prosecutors told him that in most of their straw purchaser cases they did not have probable cause to arrest the suspects. The suspects had purchased the guns legally and it was difficult to prove they were committing a crime by giving the guns to someone else.

“The real problem here is that existing laws create the impossible situation of requiring proof of a gun buyers’ intent at the point of sale,” said Paul Pelletier of Mintz Levin, a former Justice Department lawyer and Newell’s attorney. “As every senior ATF official testified ... enactment of a gun-trafficking statue would serve to plug the loophole exploited by the Fast and Furious straw buyers.”

Newell says he never told his agents to “let guns walk.” Instead, he said, he told them that they had to have sufficient evidence to satisfy the prosecutors that they had probable cause to seize the guns.

 

[tinydancer]

That statement is from the Oversight Committee and I stated that.

Tell me when did Fortune's investigation start? I have the first report that I can find on CBS from February 2011. Puts them on the case at almost 18 months.

And Fortune has this:

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies.

And the timing of this release by Fortune has Axlerod's hands all over it.

The problem the administration has is that even without releasing any documents there is a mountain of evidence that already has been compiled.

In the grand scheme of what is about to take place in Washington, that piece of fiction that Fortune put out won't mean jack shit except to left wing bloggers and posters.

Apparently, the rest of the people involved with the actual operation agree with the Fortune article, as opposed to the one guy that spoke to CBS.

For instance, William Newell, the agent in charge:

Agent who started ‘Fast and Furious’ defends gunrunning operation - The Washington Post

Newell says he and his agents were hamstrung by the U.S. attorney’s office. He said that prosecutors told him that in most of their straw purchaser cases they did not have probable cause to arrest the suspects. The suspects had purchased the guns legally and it was difficult to prove they were committing a crime by giving the guns to someone else.

“The real problem here is that existing laws create the impossible situation of requiring proof of a gun buyers’ intent at the point of sale,” said Paul Pelletier of Mintz Levin, a former Justice Department lawyer and Newell’s attorney. “As every senior ATF official testified ... enactment of a gun-trafficking statue would serve to plug the loophole exploited by the Fast and Furious straw buyers.”

Newell says he never told his agents to “let guns walk.” Instead, he said, he told them that they had to have sufficient evidence to satisfy the prosecutors that they had probable cause to seize the guns.

I've read the whole article. Herein lies the difference between CBS and Fortune in their investigation. Sharyl Attkisson who is an award winning and this is important investigative journalist just started investigating this gun running operation.

No agenda. No motive. She had no idea where this would lead. Let alone that it would lead to the DOJ.

On the other hand Fortune's motive for the article and consequently the data they choose to present fits their narrative that there's no problem whatsoever with Fast and Furious.

Just a few whoopsies here and there, couple of hundred Mexicans and a couple of agents dead but no big smurf. The ATF really really didn't mean to do anything wrong. Just a few mistakes were made.

Nothing to see here; move along. Typical tactic.

What a crock of shit.

Just the fact that the discussions were caught via email on how to move forward with gun control should have both Democrats and Republicans alike being alarmed at this blatant attempt to fraudulently pass legislation with bogus statistics from Fast and Furious.

 

[NYcarbineer]

This whole Fast and Furious thing, the right's nonsensical version of it anyway, will go into the rightwing big book of myths. The truth will never be accepted by the Right, any more than they accept the proof of Obama's birthplace.

Get used to it.