State Takes Legal Action to Seize $135K From Bakers Who Refused to Make Cake for Lesbian Couple

[hazlnut]

The right of the individual to associate with who they want to can only be taken away with a compelling government interest, more so if there is a religious component. Furthermore, the chruch/state "wall" you people blather on about works both ways, giving even more of a burden to the government to prove a compelling interest.

Melissa's isn't a church. It's a business institution.

And if she wasn't turning away Brides who wore pants, had braids, wore jewelry, had tattoos, weren't virgins or any of the other 300 examples of biblical misogyny, then she was using religion as an excuse, not as a reason, for their bigotry.

Freedom of Religion isn't limited to Churches or Clergy.

And you don't get to decide how a person follows their faith, and government sure as hell doesn't either.

But you can't run a business that caters to public accommodations (food) and discriminate.

Their store benefits from public roads, sidewalks, a business district, parking, police (property protection).


#1 no one is forcing them to acknowledge the wedding, attend the wedding or other wise bless the wedding.

#2 they are hired to provide food to a catered event. Flour, Sugar, eggs, etc. Bake and STFU fuckers.

#3 they are running a for-profit bakery - to do so, they agreed to follow state and federal laws concerning their type of business. This was a choice.

 

[hazlnut]

Now we should all realize why the country is in such a fiscal mess. What cake is worth $135,000.00. Obviously, the GOVERNMENT values its own judgment far more than it values freedom of religious values.

Now imagine that this is only concerning making a cake. Heaven forbid the baker told that couple of homosexuals that they were in danger of going to hell!

They are enforcing the will of the people. Community standards on decency and tolerance.



Government is an extension of the people.

State and federal laws reflect the will of the people.

 

[bripat9643]

The right of the individual to associate with who they want to can only be taken away with a compelling government interest, more so if there is a religious component. Furthermore, the chruch/state "wall" you people blather on about works both ways, giving even more of a burden to the government to prove a compelling interest.

Melissa's isn't a church. It's a business institution.

And if she wasn't turning away Brides who wore pants, had braids, wore jewelry, had tattoos, weren't virgins or any of the other 300 examples of biblical misogyny, then she was using religion as an excuse, not as a reason, for their bigotry.

Freedom of Religion isn't limited to Churches or Clergy.

And you don't get to decide how a person follows their faith, and government sure as hell doesn't either.

But you can't run a business that caters to public accommodations (food) and discriminate.

Their store benefits from public roads, sidewalks, a business district, parking, police (property protection).


#1 no one is forcing them to acknowledge the wedding, attend the wedding or other wise bless the wedding.

#2 they are hired to provide food to a catered event. Flour, Sugar, eggs, etc. Bake and STFU fuckers.

#3 they are running a for-profit bakery - to do so, they agreed to follow state and federal laws concerning their type of business. This was a choice.

Your attempt to rationalize this law is moronic. The bottom line is that no one has a right to be served by any business any more than they have a right to enter your home. That's a clear assault on the property rights of the business owners.

 

[bripat9643]

Now we should all realize why the country is in such a fiscal mess. What cake is worth $135,000.00. Obviously, the GOVERNMENT values its own judgment far more than it values freedom of religious values.

Now imagine that this is only concerning making a cake. Heaven forbid the baker told that couple of homosexuals that they were in danger of going to hell!

They are enforcing the will of the people. Community standards on decency and tolerance.



Government is an extension of the people.

State and federal laws reflect the will of the people.

The government has no business enforcing "community standards on decency and tolerance." That's not the government's proper function.

"The will of the people" is nothing more than mob rule. It's no more sacred than a lynching.

 

[JoeB131]

it's not a "crime". Its a civil violation, which doesn't mean its right in this case.

and your embellishment of the details is noted, weak arguments require twisting the truth.

and your last point has been debunked by people on YOUR side of the argument.

Uh, no. Seawitch just said that the fact they started a hate campaign against this couple wasn't a factor in the fine. I don't think this was the case, but I like her and didn't want to get into a pissing contest about it...

THAT SAID.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejo...ice-they-also-doxxed-them-and-their-kids.html


Laurel Bowman-Cryer filed a complaint in January 2013, but because she filed it online on her smartphone she was not shown the disclaimer informing her that the complaint, including her name and address, would be sent to the individual against whom it was being made. When Aaron Klein received the complaint, he immediately published it on his Facebook page in full, with Laurel’s name and address included.

That’s right, the Kleins doxxed the Bowman-Cryers.

State officials told the Bowman-Cryers that if they couldn’t protect the foster children in their home from the harassment that resulted from the Klein’s public posting of their home address, etc., they would lose the children—the children they were trying to adopt. Can you say stressful?!

Attempts to downplay what the Bowman-Cryers went through (calling them “rice paper lesbians,” etc.) ignore what the Bowman-Cryers ignores the gravity of what the couple suffered. The $135,000 ultimately awarded in damages was only for the suffering resulting from the initial refusal (which the commissioner found continued throughout the period of media attention), but this was not the sum of what the couple experienced at the hands of the Kleins. The simple complaint they lodged resulted in a media firestorm brought with it death threats, harassment, and the possibility of losing their children.

 

[JoeB131]

Your attempt to rationalize this law is moronic. The bottom line is that no one has a right to be served by any business any more than they have a right to enter your home. That's a clear assault on the property rights of the business owners.

Um, no, it isn't. A retail business is a public accommodation- it is open to the public and has to be accessable to members of the public. It's why stores have to have Handicapped Parking Spaces, even businesses the disabled probably wouldn't use.

 

[JoeB131]

Freedom of Religion isn't limited to Churches or Clergy.

And you don't get to decide how a person follows their faith, and government sure as hell doesn't either.

Well, I still hope for the happy day that we all stop beliving in magic sky pixies, but that said.

You can have a faith. Your business cannot.

If I refused to serve Jews because they killed Jesus or Mormons because they are heretics, there wouldn't be an issue here about MY rights. I would be charged with discrimination. It wouldn't matter what kind of snake-handling religion I claimed to belong to.

Just like the Amish have to put lights on their horse carriages... A whacky belief doesn't exempt you from other laws.

 

[OnePercenter]

Now we should all realize why the country is in such a fiscal mess. What cake is worth $135,000.00. Obviously, the GOVERNMENT values its own judgment far more than it values freedom of religious values.

Now imagine that this is only concerning making a cake. Heaven forbid the baker told that couple of homosexuals that they were in danger of going to hell!

They're being fined for being stupid.

 

[bripat9643]

Your attempt to rationalize this law is moronic. The bottom line is that no one has a right to be served by any business any more than they have a right to enter your home. That's a clear assault on the property rights of the business owners.

Um, no, it isn't. A retail business is a public accommodation- it is open to the public and has to be accessable to members of the public. It's why stores have to have Handicapped Parking Spaces, even businesses the disabled probably wouldn't use.

That's liberal abracadabra. A business is private property. As such, the owner is free to open it to whomever he wishes. Any government imposes restrictions on that ability are a violation of the owner's property rights. Stores have handicapped parking spaces because the government compels them to, and for no other reason.

 

[OnePercenter]

Sure, just as soon as we purge the government of Republicans all will be well with the world.

Thanks for that.

Now on to government run health care for private citizens.

So Republicans DID properly fund the VA?

 

[JoeB131]

That's liberal abracadabra. A business is private property. As such, the owner is free to open it to whomever he wishes. Any government imposes restrictions on that ability are a violation of the owner's property rights. Stores have handicapped parking spaces because the government compels them to, and for no other reason.

Yes, the government has decided there's a compelling PUBLIC interest in assuring the disable have access.

The government has decided there is a compelling PUBLIC interest in protecting consumers from discrimination.

Works for me. If you don't like it, don't own a business.

 

[bripat9643]

Freedom of Religion isn't limited to Churches or Clergy.

And you don't get to decide how a person follows their faith, and government sure as hell doesn't either.

Well, I still hope for the happy day that we all stop beliving in magic sky pixies, but that said.

You can have a faith. Your business cannot.

Says who? The Supreme Court ruled otherwise when it decided in favor of Hobby Lobby.

If I refused to serve Jews because they killed Jesus or Mormons because they are heretics, there wouldn't be an issue here about MY rights. I would be charged with discrimination. It wouldn't matter what kind of snake-handling religion I claimed to belong to.

Just like the Amish have to put lights on their horse carriages... A whacky belief doesn't exempt you from other laws.

That may be the law, but there is no moral principle that says you have to serve Jews or Muslims or anyone you prefer not to serve, just as there is no moral principle that says you have to invite them into your home.

 

[bripat9643]

That's liberal abracadabra. A business is private property. As such, the owner is free to open it to whomever he wishes. Any government imposes restrictions on that ability are a violation of the owner's property rights. Stores have handicapped parking spaces because the government compels them to, and for no other reason.

Yes, the government has decided there's a compelling PUBLIC interest in assuring the disable have access.

The government has decided there is a compelling PUBLIC interest in protecting consumers from discrimination.

Works for me. If you don't like it, don't own a business.

We aren't talking about what the government decided. The government decided wrongly. Obviously, you don't give a damn about rights or principles, you only care if your agenda is enforced. You're an unscrupulous weasel, just like every libturd.

If the government decided that it was OK to shove Jews into gas ovens, what would you say? A-OK with me?

Whenever turds like you start telling us what the law says, it's because you know you can't justify your agenda on moral grounds.

 

[JoeB131]

That may be the law, but there is no moral principle that says you have to serve Jews or Muslims or anyone you prefer not to serve, just as there is no moral principle that says you have to invite them into your home.

You work on the assumption I care what you feel.

For the record, I don't. I want your side crushed. I want you to pay for aboritons and make wedding cakes for queers and pay exhoribitant taxes for food stamps.

 

[OnePercenter]

Actually someone asked WalMart to make an ISIS cake and they made it.

At least Hitler did not crucify children on crosses.

It was the same idiot that tried to have a confederate flag cake made. The only outcome is his connecting the confederate flag with ISIS. SMART

 

[JoeB131]

The government decided wrongly. Obviously, you don't give a damn about rights or principles, you only care if your agenda is enforced. You're an unscrupulous weasel, just like every libturd.

No, they got it right. Again- if you don't want to serve liberals and queers, don't own a business.

Shit, I've got to do business with people I dont' like every day. That's the job.

 

[OnePercenter]

Now we should all realize why the country is in such a fiscal mess. What cake is worth $135,000.00. Obviously, the GOVERNMENT values its own judgment far more than it values freedom of religious values.

Now imagine that this is only concerning making a cake. Heaven forbid the baker told that couple of homosexuals that they were in danger of going to hell!

They are enforcing the will of the people. Community standards on decency and tolerance.



Government is an extension of the people.

State and federal laws reflect the will of the people.

The government has no business enforcing "community standards on decency and tolerance." That's not the government's proper function.

"The will of the people" is nothing more than mob rule. It's no more sacred than a lynching.

GO AWAY CANADIAN!!!

 

[bripat9643]

The government decided wrongly. Obviously, you don't give a damn about rights or principles, you only care if your agenda is enforced. You're an unscrupulous weasel, just like every libturd.

No, they got it right. Again- if you don't want to serve liberals and queers, don't own a business.

Shit, I've got to do business with people I dont' like every day. That's the job.

Prove they decided the issue correctly. Don't go telling me to follow the law again.

 

[bripat9643]

That may be the law, but there is no moral principle that says you have to serve Jews or Muslims or anyone you prefer not to serve, just as there is no moral principle that says you have to invite them into your home.

You work on the assumption I care what you feel.

For the record, I don't. I want your side crushed. I want you to pay for aboritons and make wedding cakes for queers and pay exhoribitant taxes for food stamps.

In other words, you care about what I believe. The fact that you want to "crush" me only shows how weak you believe your position is.

 

[LittleNipper]

Now we should all realize why the country is in such a fiscal mess. What cake is worth $135,000.00. Obviously, the GOVERNMENT values its own judgment far more than it values freedom of religious values.

Now imagine that this is only concerning making a cake. Heaven forbid the baker told that couple of homosexuals that they were in danger of going to hell!

They're being fined for being stupid.

If people were fined for being stupid, everyone would be broke. PS: And the government still wouldn't have enough money.