Starting the circle fresh.

[Fizz]

Examples of how Twoofers LIE.

1. Extremely rapid onset of “collapse”

then how do you explain the NYC police helicopter reporting the building was leaning and telling people to evacuate several minutes before the collapse?

2. Sounds of explosions at plane impact zone — a full second prior to collapse (heard by 118 first responders as well as by media reporters)

a full second before what? where does the second start? (see above). reports of people hearing the collapse starting before the collapse starts?!!

4. Squibs, or “mistimed” explosions, 40 floors below the “collapsing” building seen in all the videos

HAHahaha you state "mistimed explosions" as proof but have no proof of explosions!! the "squibs" are air pressure. some of the bigger ones come from the sky lobby floors where the elevator shafts end.

5. Mid-air pulverization of all the 90,000 tons of concrete and steel decking, filing cabinets & 1000 people – mostly to dust

this is a really cool lie. and really silly. who is claiming that it happened in mid air? wouldnt it be more likely to happen at the point of collapse?

it just goes to show you how fucked up the twoofers logic is....

6. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds

so now volcanoes are involved in the collapse?!!

7. Vertical progression of full building perimeter demolition waves

demolition waves would require demolitions, would they not? please prove the demolitions first and then we can talk about how silly this claim is.

8. Symmetrical collapse – through the path of greatest resistance – at nearly free-fall speed — the columns gave no resistance

if the columns gave no resistance then why did the building not fall at freefall speed? sorry, but the columns were not designed to have a 15 story building dropped down on them.

9. 1,400 foot diameter field of equally distributed debris – outside of building footprint

wait a second.... isnt it the twoofer claim that the buildings looked like a typical building demolition? so how did all this crap get OUTSIDE the building footprint if it was IMPLODED?!!

10. Blast waves blew out windows in buildings 400 feet away

again, you need to prove explosives before try to state the explosives caused something else.

11. Lateral ejection of thousands of individual 20 - 50 ton steel beams up to 500 feet

wow.... must have been a really big building, huh?

12. Total destruction of the building down to individual structural steel elements – obliterating the steel core structure.

so you are claiming that the building collapse should have stopped at some point?

13. Tons of molten Metal found by FDNY under all 3 high-rises (no other possible source other than an incendiary cutting charge such as Thermate)

really? no other source, huh? and your proof that there is no other source is what??

 

[Gamolon]

if you got your head out of your ass and did research and stopped listening to the corporate controlled media, you would know they designed that in mind with an airliner slamming into it at 600 mph saying that it could have taken a hit from MULTIPLE airliners.

It did survive the impact. Do you understand what impact means from a design perspective? Obviously not. Impact does not describe an action over a period of time. Even Leslie Robertson said the towers survived the impact as he stated here:

It appears that about 25,000 people safely exited the buildings, almost all of them from below the impact floors; almost everyone above the impact floors perished, either from the impact and fire or from the subsequent collapse. The structures of the buildings were heroic in some ways but less so in others. The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing 707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field). Therefore, the robustness of the towers was exemplary. At the same time, the fires raging in the inner reaches of the buildings undermined their strength. In time, the unimaginable happened . . . wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the fires, both of the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

National Academy of Engineering (NAE) - Reflections on the World Trade Center

lol,again you guys ignore what the experts say,the photographs,witness testimonys and that video that cant be debunked.priceless.lol. oh and for the hundreth time Gam,stop quoting what Robertson said,he was bought off.What Skilling and Demartini said proves Robertson is a liar also in case your not aware of it,NIST has ADMITTED the towers fell at freefall speed that you always insisted that they didnt.lol.

Show the quote of what Skilling saidm that proves Robertson a liar. Also, point me in the direction of the statement where NIST admitted that the towers fell at freefall speed.

I bet you can't do either.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Qg_-89Zr8]YouTube - Bad Ass Skyscraper Fires and Destruction!! Awesome!![/ame]


The three buildings involved have very different structures from the WTC.

In one case, there is masonry support from each side of the structure. This helps hold the steel in that direction.

In another, the building had concrete columns at each corner and along each side. This is very different from the structure of the WTC, which was trusses between steel columns.

I have responded to this often, as have all the anti troofers.

 

[Terral]

Hi Baruch:

The last 9/11 goof thread is now 25 pages and has sunk to yells of "Retard" back and forth.

Time for a new thread, I think.

Anyway, the 16 impossible things for the troofers to believe before breakfast . . .

No sir. I (#3) challenged your Official Govt Cover Story Lunacy in Post #21 here (and Post #26), but you ran away with your tail tucked neatly. Baruch discredits himself by using silly terms like "troofers," but then he runs and hides when faced with 'the' 911Truth (My WTC-7 CD Implosion Topic)! This guy is here to push Official Govt Cover Story LIES no matter what anyone says.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIx2CVRxRXg]The Simple Truth From This Short Video Debunks Everything From Baruch[/ame]


Everyone should realize that George Bush, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld became the very first 'troofers' when they began pointing fingers at 19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals ...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73qK4j32iuo"]This Is "Two" Controlled Demolition Implosions![/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ"]Lots Of People Are LYING About 9/11 'And' Are Getting Away With It ... For Now[/ame]

GL,

Terral

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Number 3 is that steel reached a temperature high enough to fail (NOT MELT) You are worried about melting temperature, not failure temperature.

Your other response was just an appeal to authorities. you have your authorities, I have mine. I just think mine are more credible.

As to the videos, we have gone over the issue of how the buildings fell over and over. Compression expelled gasses from the windows. What you see as explosions I see as first the windows failing under intense pressure from above and from inside, then the ejection of air as the building pancakes from floor to floor.

19 guys hijacked 4 aircraft. Discussing the mechanics of structural failure does not change that fact.

 

[CurveLight]

Number 3 is that steel reached a temperature high enough to fail (NOT MELT) You are worried about melting temperature, not failure temperature.

Your other response was just an appeal to authorities. you have your authorities, I have mine. I just think mine are more credible.

As to the videos, we have gone over the issue of how the buildings fell over and over. Compression expelled gasses from the windows. What you see as explosions I see as first the windows failing under intense pressure from above and from inside, then the ejection of air as the building pancakes from floor to floor.

19 guys hijacked 4 aircraft. Discussing the mechanics of structural failure does not change that fact.

What is the source for quote in the op on 77?

 

[Terral]

Hi Baruch:

Number 3 is that steel reached a temperature high enough to fail (NOT MELT) You are worried about melting temperature, not failure temperature.

And this guy just keeps on lying his azz off! Here are the facts:

1. Heat energy from any building fire is absorbed by the steel members (girders, columns, beams, bar-joists) for transmission to cooler areas of the larger steel-frame network!

Baruch is willing to sit there and pretend that heat energy sits motionless within the steel-frame network, when the 911Truth is that heat energy races to cooler areas MUCH faster than any single component can fail.

2. WTC box columns are MASSIVE and include 4-inch red-iron on each side!

Look at the size of the massive columns we are talking about! Mr. Baruch will insist that this 45-degree cut was made by demo workers (not), which is another 911LIE. However, he will never even begin to explain how this same massive column (47 stories tall) was 'cut' during his building fire that transformed this massive structure ...

... into this little pile ...

... in just 6.6 seconds! We are talking about tons and tons and tons of 2800-degree red-iron steel members that were 'cut' at the very same time to create a typical Building Implosion like this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73qK4j32iuo"]Both Are Controlled Demolition Implosions[/ame]

This Official Cover Story Idiot was sent here to convince you that massive 2800-degree red-iron steel members in a steel-frame network behaves like a small segment of iron in a controlled laboratory setting. No sir. When heat enters any column or beam, that energy races instantly to the cooler areas to heat up the entire network!

3. WTC-7 collapsed 'symmetrically' straight down into its own footprint!

However, the upper half of WTC-7 stands tall 'above' the WTC-1 dust cloud 'and' the far side (facing us) could NOT possibly receive ANY damage from the WTC-1 Controlled Demolition Implosion! If only 'one' side of WTC-7 could possibly receive any fire/debris damage, then how does Mr. Cover Story Baruch explain the 'symmetrical collapse'???? Even if building fires could weaken 2800-degree structural steel (impossible), then Mr. Baruch has the impossible task of explaining why WTC-7 failed to collapse first on his 'damaged' side.

The 911Truth is that WTC-7 Collapsed from a Controlled Demolition Implosion (my Topic) and Mr. Baruch has NO "Building Fires Did It" Case at all.

GL,

Terral

 

[Baruch Menachem]

What is the source for the quote regarding 77?

Ooops, I bungled the quote rules. Don't tell Echo Zulu, K?
From Here.
I know it is not the best source, but it is the only source I found on short notice that was comprehensive.

Also I notice that the term they use was weird. Since the transponder was off, it was more like un noticed.

When I did private pilot training, you could visit the towers and talk to the if you made an appointment ahead of them. (Air students and pilots only, not for the general public even then) I don't know if you can do that anymore.

Anyway, what the controllers are looking at is large screens with tons of blips and data on them. Each aircraft with a transponder can be uniquely identified on the screen through software that gives the information fed into it by the controller. But as far as the radar is concerned, without a transponder code, all they see is a little oval with no information it.
Mostly during the corse of the day, their job is to ensure separation of aircraft. and each controller has his own set of aircraft that he is tracking and his own area of responsibility. They have a job and it keeps them busy. Tracking anomould blips is not part of their job description.

Of course, you can follow a blip as it gets painted by radar every time it refreshes. So once you find an anonymous blip moving you can track it by finger as it goes.

ATC radar is programmed to ignore stuff close the ground, and weather systems. NOt part of the job. Tall buildings are ignored as well.

It is a cool system, and I am glad I got a chance to see it.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

As to heat dissipation... It does happen, but not that much dissipates through steel. I see welders cutting steel and then moving the pieces by hand immediately afterwords. The pictures I showed of what happened with GA "Sherman's Neckties" was done by hand.

Your pictures are of box girders. The plate is not 4" in the picture. Judging from the firemen, the plate is about 1" at the most. The box girder is 4" maybe. But the steel plates are not.


Newton explained why a building should fall into its own footprint. Gravity does not pull from the sides, but pulls strait down. That is the only direction a building should fall in this case.

We are talking about structural failure here. Not chopping trees.

Over and over we go. You are insisting that steel has to melt. I keep insisting it just has to fail And failure temperature is way below melting point.

Metal is ductile at most normal temperatures. As temperature falls, metal gets less ductile and more brittle. (One of the reasons the Titanic sank was that the rivets holding the plates together became brittle under cold temperature, and so snapped under the force of an iceberg, but in warmer waters, they would have held together very well under equivalent force) As temperature rises it becomes more ductile.
The fact that metal is ductile at normal temperatures makes it possible to do lots of fun things with it, like make sheet metal bend into shapes. You stick a sheet of steel under a press, push a button, and you have a hood for your Caddilac.

Anyway, I have not seen any instance of metal disapating heat the way you say it does. I know it does conduct heat.

Here is a table showing conductivity Steel has a rating of 43. Asbestos a rating of .15
More discussions on this, beyond my capacity.but you can look if you want
Anyway, it does not mean that the heat instantly dissipates through the whole system. If you have watched a welder at work, you will notice that the steel is white hot at the point of the flame, red for a short distance away, and then gray further down. If your analysis of thermal conductivity were correct, it would be impossible to cut or weld steel, as the heat would instantly dissipate throughout the metal being worked on.

 

[Terral]

Hi Baruch:

As to heat dissipation... It does happen, but not that much dissipates through steel ...

We are talking about heat 'conduction' through the massive steel columns and beams, which means heat MOVES from hot areas to cool areas MUCH faster than any single component can weaken. Your assumption that heat can build up in any single column or beam is STUPID.

Anyone willing to fall for that STUPIDITY (#9) is worthy to become your idiot disciple ...

GL,

Terral

 

[Fizz]

Look at the size of the massive columns we are talking about! Mr. Baruch will insist that this 45-degree cut was made by demo workers (not), which is another 911LIE. However, he will never even begin to explain how this same massive column (47 stories tall) was 'cut' during his building fire that transformed this massive structure ...

... into this little pile ...

... in just 6.6 seconds!

anyone that claims wtc7 fell in 6.6 seconds is a lying moron.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rhY9c_iemA]YouTube - WTC 7 Collapse Chandler Debunked Pt 1[/ame]

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Guy is using a mac, but at the end he blows up a PC
LOL

One of the problems with the troofers is the number they came up with the speed of the collapse faster than free fall in a vacuum, which they use as proof that it was demolition

 

[☭proletarian☭]

if you got your head out of your ass and did research and stopped listening to the corporate controlled media, you would know they designed that in mind with an airliner slamming into it at 600 mph saying that it could have taken a hit from MULTIPLE airliners.
loyal Bush dupe.
YouTube - frank demartini I know im wasting my time posting that video and you'll ignore it though and not watch it,you Bush dupes always do that.

Yeah, and the Titanic was the cruiseliner ever built, an amazing ship that would earn its name.



Then it actually hit a piece of icefor the first time and we found out it was a bit overhyped.

what a coward,like all Bush dupes,you ignore what the architects and engineers said with apples and oranges with that pitiful Titanic example.You ignore what the photos show and what credible witnesses say as well cause your so much in denial not to mention you ignore the laws of physics that scientists have gone by for thousands of years.how pitiful.

We've had the same understanding of physics for thousands of years?


God, you're stupid.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

13. Tons of molten Metal found by FDNY under all 3 high-rises (no other possible source other than an incendiary cutting charge such as Thermate)

I though it was superthermite?

And you don't use use thermate in demolitions. You cut things with detcord.

Thermate is not effective against vertical columns.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Face it truthers, Baruch Menachem, has not only owned you but has eaten your lunch.

 

[CurveLight]

13. Tons of molten Metal found by FDNY under all 3 high-rises (no other possible source other than an incendiary cutting charge such as Thermate)

I though it was superthermite?

And you don't use use thermate in demolitions. You cut things with detcord.

Thermate is not effective against vertical columns.

Thermate burns hotter than thermite. Think about it genius.

 

[CurveLight]

Face it truthers, Baruch Menachem, has not only owned you but has eaten your lunch.

He ate my lunch because he likes fresh steamy shit.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Face it truthers, Baruch Menachem, has not only owned you but has eaten your lunch.

He ate my lunch because he likes fresh steamy shit.

You eat shit for lunch?

Also, I think BM is a she.

 

[CurveLight]

What is the source for the quote regarding 77?

Ooops, I bungled the quote rules. Don't tell Echo Zulu, K?
From Here.
I know it is not the best source, but it is the only source I found on short notice that was comprehensive.

Also I notice that the term they use was weird. Since the transponder was off, it was more like un noticed.

When I did private pilot training, you could visit the towers and talk to the if you made an appointment ahead of them. (Air students and pilots only, not for the general public even then) I don't know if you can do that anymore.

Anyway, what the controllers are looking at is large screens with tons of blips and data on them. Each aircraft with a transponder can be uniquely identified on the screen through software that gives the information fed into it by the controller. But as far as the radar is concerned, without a transponder code, all they see is a little oval with no information it.
Mostly during the corse of the day, their job is to ensure separation of aircraft. and each controller has his own set of aircraft that he is tracking and his own area of responsibility. They have a job and it keeps them busy. Tracking anomould blips is not part of their job description.

Of course, you can follow a blip as it gets painted by radar every time it refreshes. So once you find an anonymous blip moving you can track it by finger as it goes.

ATC radar is programmed to ignore stuff close the ground, and weather systems. NOt part of the job. Tall buildings are ignored as well.

It is a cool system, and I am glad I got a chance to see it.

Why don't you cite the 9E CR? Your description of how ATCs operate is at best jumbled.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Face it truthers, Baruch Menachem, has not only owned you but has eaten your lunch.

He ate my lunch because he likes fresh steamy shit.

You eat shit for lunch?

Also, I think BM is a she.

Shit sandwiches actually, but he uses whole wheat bread.