Stalin's Successful Strategy

Discussion in 'History' started by PoliticalChic, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    Simple, it seems, to shrug off communist infiltration of Roosevelt's administration....after all, he was elected four times, he won the war and defeated Nazi Germany.

    But..what was the real result of that war?

    At its end, the Soviet Union was whole, it controlled half of Europe, Soviet spies were note only still effective, but it became politically incorrect to label them.


    FDR had censored any criticism of the USSR, even to the extent of hiding Stalin's refusal to return 20,000 American troops that he captured.

    And just as it had been originally planned in the treaty between Stalin and Hitler, and over two million refugees were forcibly repatriated to Stalin's gulags.

    And communists continued to hold power in forums of influence, and in Hollywood and in labor unions, and went on to create the United Nations.....the voice of international socialism and one-worldism.

    So...who won?





    And this:
    Diana West, in her monumental tome "American Betrayal," posits that Stalin actually determined the methods and direction of the D Day assaults, for the very purpose of Soviet control of Eastern Europe.


    1. "Stalin, through his infiltration and occupation of our power centers by a well-placed army of agents, fellow travelers, and dupes, prodded and coaxed along Allied strategy thrughout World War II to further the entrenchment and expansion of the evil empire. The greatest undetected, unpunished, unimagined crime ever."
    West, Op. Cit.

    2. A suggestion of how Stalin is remembered by elites can be seen in the D-Day Memorial, in Bedford, Virginia.
    "The National D-Day Memorial is a war memorial located in Bedford, Virginia.... Bedford was selected for the National D-Day memorial because the town suffered the greatest per capita loss of life during the invasion of any town in the country." National D-Day Memorial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    a. Displayed prominently at the memorial was "...a bust of Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin that was installed at the site..."
    National D-Day Memorial Foundation president resigns - NewsAdvance.com : News - Local Lynchburg, Va. Area

    3. Of course, Stalin belongs at the memorial: Stalin was the primary booster of invasion by way of northern France.

    Then there was Harry Hopkins, the primary non-Russian booster of the extremely contentious decision to stage the main Allied assault on northern France, rather than southern Europe, Churchill's choice.

    a. Harry Hopkins,- FDR's alter ego, live-in co-president, or Rasputin, "...the closest and most influential adviser to President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II, was a Soviet agent." and “the most important of all Soviet wartime agents in the United States.”
    The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins
    The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins

    4. A clear, tangible record exists attesting to Hopkin's shepherding role in the decision to implement D-day at northern France, and it shows up in Sherwood's official biography, "The White House Papers of Harry L. Hopkins," and also in the memoires of key witnesses to the events.






    5. Churchill repeatedly proposed an attack via already established Allied bases in Italy, and expanding operations from the Adriatic and Aegean Seas into south central Europe...

    ...Stalin wanted Eastern and Central Europe left open to millions of Red Army troops.

    "The D-Day invasion was forced on a reluctant Churchill by the Americans..... pressed instead for a strategy focused on the Mediterranean, pushing through the "soft underbelly" of southern Europe, over the Alps and through the Balkans. The Americans prevailed because they provided an increasingly larger share of the forces and funding.... Roosevelt dispatched Marshall and presidential envoy Harry Hopkins to London to sell the idea to the British." Churchill?s Southern Strategy


    Again....Roosevelt, Stalin's dupe, and Harry Hopkins. Stalin's agent....



    a. "One of the few Americans to agree with Churchill and Alexander was Lt. Gen. Mark W. Clark, commander of US Fifth Army in Italy, who said in his 1951 autobiography that "the weakening of the campaign in Italy in order to invade southern France, instead of pushing on into the Balkans, was one of the outstanding political mistakes of the war. The Italian campaign did have military value. It knocked Italy out of the war and it tied down more than 20 German divisions"
    Churchill?s Southern Strategy





    Simply a coincidence that Roosevelt acquiesced to everything Stalin wanted.....demanded.

    Yeah.....coincidence.
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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  2. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Gold Member

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    Once again, George Patton recorded in his diary that he was ordered to let the Germans escape through Falaise Gap. He was vehemently against this and was on record that the Allies should use every effort to close the gap and annihilate the bulk of the German forces in the West thereby clearing the way into Berlin.

    The war would have ended 6 months sooner with the US and Brits in control of all the real estate from Normandy to Berlin, maybe even Warsaw

    One can see Stalin's hand manipulating his American sock puppets
  3. Spoonman
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    Spoonman Gold Member

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    we allowed Russia to capture berlin as compensation for the sacrifices they made in the war. what about the sacrifices we made? What about the fact we armed the Russians through lend lease. what about the fact that a few years earlier, Russia signed a pact with these same Germans against us and the rest of our allies. people always forget about that
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  4. HelenaHandbag
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    HelenaHandbag Shoots back

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    The best enemies that U.S. taxpayer money can buy.
  5. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    As for the buffet called 'Lend-Lease'....


    1. ....supplies didn't just "flow" to the Soviet Union, they flooded it, including non-military supplies: a tire plant, an oil refinery, pipe-fabricating works, over a million miles of copper wire, switchboard-panels, lathes and power tools, textile machinery, woodworking, typesetting, cranes hoists, derricks, air compressors, $152 million in women's 'dress goods,' 18.4 million pounds of writing paper, cigarette cases, jeweled watches, lipstick, liquor, bathtubs, and pianos.


    2. George Kennan wrote: "there is no adequate justification for continuing a program of lavish and almost indiscriminate aid to the Soviet Union at a time when there was increasing reason to doubt whether her purposes in Eastern Europe, aside from the defeat of Germany, would be ones which we Americans could approve and sponsor."
    George C. Herring, "Aid to Russia," p. xvii.



    3. The original Lend-Lease act provided that, unless sooner terminated by a concurrent resolution by Congress, the authority to enter into lend-lease agreements would end 30 June 1943, and the authority to carry out contracts or agreements with foreign governments would continue until 1 July 1946.
    Congress then made one-year extensions of the agreements three times so that the final date for making lend-lease agreements was 30 June 1946, with authority to carry them out until 1 July 1949.
    Film Study: An Analytical Bibliography - Frank Manchel - Google Books




    Germany surrendered 7 May 1945


    Lend-Lease......until 1 July 1949.
  6. regent
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    regent Senior Member

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    My first reaction, as a member of the queen of battle, when I heard the Russians had taken Berlin was "great", we let them take Berlin and we let them take the casualties.
    We sit here now talking about how we allowed the USSR to take this and that, as if it's a board game, but every this and that amounted to thousands of casualties for some nation.
    One of the underlying thoughts I think Americans, and even some generals, had during WWII, was casualties, don't take unnecessary casualties. Now with our board games we don't worry about casualties we slash bravely ahead,
    As Chuchill, Stalin, Chiang, DeGaulle and FDR plotted on how to put the world back together to benefit their own nation of course, I always felt FDR and Churchill were constantly aware of the cost of setting up the perfect world and maybe didn't want to pay the price.
    For our low casualty figures in WWII I thank American people, to them it was not a board game.
    And in the end, how did it all turn out?
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  7. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    "As Chuchill, Stalin, Chiang, DeGaulle and FDR plotted on how to put the world back together...."

    No....that's not what Stalin had in mind.




    ....mull this over: who knows more about the evil than those living under same.

    1. When the Allies succumbed to Stalin's demands at Yalta, that all those refugees, from generals of armies to intellectuals, Cossacks, kulaks, teachers, peasants, and workers, be repatriated to Stalin!

    2. The 850,000 strong army of Gen. Andrei Andreyevich Vlasov, having gone to the other side, Germany, "to save their country from Stalin" and having later surrendered to US forces, "formed the core of those forcebly repatritated between 1944 and 1947." "Operation Keelhaul; The Story of Forced Repatriation from 1944 to the Present. by Julius Epstein p.27, 53.


    a. Gen. Deniken, former commanding general of the White Russian armies which were supported by the USA in 1917-1920, explained that none of these men served in the Nazi army out of love for Germany..."they hated the Germans" he wrote....rather, they knew what awaited them in the 'Soviet paradise.'



    3. How badly did these individuals not want to go to Stalin's USSR? From the NYTimes, January 20, 1946: "Ten renegade Russian soldiers, in a frenzy of terror over their impending repatriation to the homeland, committed suicide today during a riot in the Dachau prison camp...."


    a. And, in the NYTimes, March 5, 1946:
    "Rome- Many thousands of persons hostile to the present regime in the Soviet Union are being forcibly sent there....the Catholic Church constantly received appeals from 'displaced persons' terrified of being sent back to territory now controlled by Russia."



    4. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
    "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.



    What did these folks know that Franklin Roosevelt didn't?

    And, since he probably did.....doesn't that make him a dupe at the least, and accomplice at best, to Stalin?
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  8. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Supporting Member

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    FDR played Stalin for a fool

    Let he Soviets do all the bleeding and we reap the rewards

    FDR was a master politician
  9. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    Stalin led FDR around, and continues to lead folks like you.
  10. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Supporting Member

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    Let's see.....

    Stalin suffered tens of million of casualties as his country was destroyed by an invading Army
    FDR sat back with his home front intact as he built the largest economic and military powerhouse in history

    Yea....FDR sure got taken on that deal
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  11. regent
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    regent Senior Member

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    If your point was that Stalin was evil I agree, should that evilness have stopped the allies from using Stalin's evilness to defeat the evilness of Hitler? We held Stalin's coat while he had at it with Germany, was that evil of us? We came in at the end and bingo the USSR was now a major power.
    Perhaps the tragedy is that Stalin survived and we didn't have Americans back then willing to continue the war to destroy Stalin. Today, we have Americans on these very boards that would have gone on to destroy Stalin. If only we had these braver than brave back then when Stalin was around.
    Your move.
  12. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Supporting Member

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    It would have cost us a half million casualties to destroy Stalin
    Or we could have waited 40 years and let them collapse on their own

    Guess which strategy was the best
  13. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    No....Stalin created millions of casualties.


    Your post echoes the old joke about the guy who killed his parents than pleads for mercy because he's an orphan.



    1. World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
    "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.


    2. Former USSR leader Joseph Stalin is estimated to have killed millions of people for various reasons. Reports from the Soviet archives show prisoners under Stalin's regime who were executed either for political or criminal offences. Around 158,000 soldiers were also executed for deserting the war.
    Why Did Stalin Kill His Own People? - Ask.com


    3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
    Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin - NYTimes.com




    Wise up.
  14. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    Your erroneous opinion.

    Learned opinion was very different.


    When the (anticipated) event that Hitler would attack Stalin's Russia, as they did June 21st, 1941, America should have done nothing...no more than relaxing restrictions on exports to the Russians...but at the same time securing a quid pro quo for further assistance! Lend-Lease should not have been the automatic and unlimited buffet that it turned into!

    "Finally, should the Soviet regime fall,...we should refuse to recognize a Communist government-in-exile, leaving the path clear for establishment for a non-Communist government in Russia after the war." These were the words of Loy Henderson, Soviet and Eastern European affairs expert and Foreign Service officer,
    as quoted by Martin Weil in "A pretty good club: The founding fathers of the U.S. Foreign Service," p. 106.


    Not so at the White House: there, it was all about the sacredness of the survival of Soviet Russia!
    Loy Henderson: "Russia does not fight for the same ideals as the United States."
    Nor, it seems, did Franklin Roosevelt.


    Imagine the lives saved had the United States elected a President with the wisdom of a George Kennan, or Loy Henderson, instead of Franklin Roosevelt.




    Roosevelt swore to the American public the exact opposite: he declared that Stalin fought for the same ideals! FDR was lying!

    September 30, 1941, FDR claimed that there was freedom of religion in the USSR.

    "The claim that Stalin's Russia allowed religious freedom was the first step in a massive pro-Soviet campaign that the White House coordinated for the duration of the war."
    "Caught between Roosevelt and Stalin: America's Ambassadors to Moscow," by Dennis J. Dunn, p. 137
  15. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Supporting Member

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    No casualties from the Nazi invasion

    Never heard that one
  16. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Supporting Member

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    Is that what you believe or just more of your blind cut and paste?

    When the Nazis invaded Russia we needed he Soviets to tie them up and beat the shit out of them.
    Do nothing?
    Allow Germany to maintain its control over Western Europe
    You think we invade Normandy without an active Eastern front?

    Say it isn't so PC
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  17. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    "When the Nazis invaded Russia we needed he Soviets to tie them up and beat the shit out of them."


    So....your view is that the Stalin needed to be convinced to resist the attack?


    Do you realize the absurdity of the argument you're trying to make.



    We both know you're clutching at straws to maintain your Leftist creds......you'd lose status if you actually applied logic to your view of Roosevelt.
  18. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    "You think we invade Normandy without an active Eastern front?"

    This was Stalin's plan.....FDR said 'yes, boss.'
  19. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Supporting Member

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    Seems you are in a quandary PC

    Germany invades Russia, which side do you want to win?

    USMB wants to know.......the world hangs in the balance
  20. Mr Clean
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    Mr Clean VIP Member

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    Stalin? Commie

    Roosevelt? Commie

    Hitler? Not a Commie.


    Looks like we have a winner!

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