stable, peaceful iraq? when?!

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by spillmind, Oct 1, 2003.

  1. spillmind
    Offline

    spillmind Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    780
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Palo Alto, Ca.
    Ratings:
    +13
  2. jimnyc
    Offline

    jimnyc ...

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,113
    Thanks Received:
    244
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    New York
    Ratings:
    +246
    I say we give them a little longer than 6 months to make any drastic changes. The fact that these people are out of their houses and have the ability to complain now says a lot! They probably would have been executed on the spot by the old regime.

    Even Germany changed their minds about funding the rebuilding effort. Progress will be slow, but when the community realizes things are changing for the better they will be more likely to toss a few bucks into the effort.
     
  3. janeeng
    Online

    janeeng Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    I have to agree, I can't see how 6 months can do the job, much more time needed. You can't take a country and perfect it in a day, time is needed. And yes, had they been out bitching while Hussein was there, death would be upon them.
     
  4. Spirit_Soul
    Online

    Spirit_Soul Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    There were ways of getting saddham out of power. It didn't have to cost so many extra lives.

    I feel so sad for the people who live in Iraq. Just imagine, you were living under an oppressive ruler and didn't have any freedom to say anything, but you had a nice house to live in, you had kids, you had a husband or a wife... you were happy even though you were oppressed.

    But now...

    War starts, destruction everywhere, Chaos... and then comes freedom, but what is freedom when you have no Job, you have no money to feed your kids, what sort of a parent would you be if you couldn't feed your children. You wouldn't have food to eat yourself, no electricity, thieves everywhere, people released from prisons... mobs going around... Gangsters threatening your streets... its just so horrible.

    When you protest in those desperate conditions driven by hunger, you then get shot at with guns by a very well trained army, what kind of freedom is that? :(

    Now I know why I can't sleep in the night these days ....
     
  5. jimnyc
    Offline

    jimnyc ...

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,113
    Thanks Received:
    244
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    New York
    Ratings:
    +246
    Please name these ways. And keep in mind, it was an entire regime, not just one man.

    I'm not sure they were "happy" with their lives pre-war, probably just content to be alive.

    Agreed, war IS horrible, but a necessary evil at times. The jobs and money will come with time. These people had to have known it would be a slow start and a long effort to start thriving after the past regimes ouster. What you describe is not what ALL Iraqi's are experiencing. Things will get worse before getting better was what people stated as the war effort began. I think things are already much better there, but there is obviously a long way to go.

    Protesting is fine, attacking police officers is not! And they shot in the air and not at the protesters. In fact, no casualties were even reported. I think they acted quite appropriately.

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/10/01/sprj.irq.main/index.html
     
  6. Spirit_Soul
    Online

    Spirit_Soul Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    The general public anywhere and especially common people in any instance only go ballistic and start attacking people is due to desperation .

    It is not their fault. They were atleast happy to be alive , you can go ahead and live in your notions of freedom, but what good is freedom when you are starving to death in misery.

    The fact is we should have not made it so easy for them to go chaotic after the war.

    If bush kept "Iraqi people" in mind while attacking it like he said, then would not make the things go so chaotic : examples : setting "good" people as well as psycho murderers free from Iraqi prisons.

    If this was to happen after the war, then there should have been another way to solve this problem. Suffering of one group of innocents is not to be traded for the saving of other another group of innocents, its not right and its not fair.
     
  7. jimnyc
    Offline

    jimnyc ...

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,113
    Thanks Received:
    244
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    New York
    Ratings:
    +246
    There is a TON of unemployment in Iraq that is causing most of the issues, and in time this will get better. Those that cannot afford food at this time can get what they need to survive through the "Public Distribution System". This will need to increase as things progress for it to have a significant impact and will be costly. This is where the UN and committed countries come into play. This is why the USA is asking for monetary contributions to the rebuild effort in Iraq. We have already dedicated 22 billion dollars.

    http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/d7a2bb4c4b505f71c1256daa002f2c51?OpenDocument

    Lives get taken during and because of war. This is unfortunate, but not something that was overlooked.

    You seem to be basing current conditions as a gauge as to how Iraqi living conditions will be in the upcoming years. It will improve MORE than drastically.

    Liberals will claim outrage that soldiers and those involved in humanitarian efforts are still stuck in Iraq. In the next breath they will claim we aren't doing enough to help.

    War is never fair. Lives sometimes are lost when a battle is taken to save an entire country. Precautions were taken to avoid civilian casualties and full efforts are being taken to assist in the aftermath. What more can you do? Suggestions?
     
  8. spillmind
    Offline

    spillmind Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    780
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Palo Alto, Ca.
    Ratings:
    +13
    ' This is why the USA is asking for monetary contributions to the rebuild effort in Iraq. We have already dedicated 22 billion dollars.'

    jim, you ever wonder why 'other' nations have only pledged 2 billion to our 22? :confused:

    why is it we can't invest a more balanced amount into building as we spent destroying? :confused:

    btw: looks like those new emoticons are catching on like wildfire.
     
  9. Dan
    Offline

    Dan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    3,928
    Thanks Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Aiken, SC
    Ratings:
    +157
    Look at it from a humanistic point of view. There's a chance that these wonderful changes won't come about for many many years (and, yes, this is a hypothetical, just like the idea that Iraq is going to be a beautiful place in a short amount of time is nothing more than a hypothetical). Do you really think the average Iraqi is sitting around thinking "well, things are sure as hell crappy for us now, but in the future they'll be great!"
     
  10. jimnyc
    Offline

    jimnyc ...

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    10,113
    Thanks Received:
    244
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    New York
    Ratings:
    +246
    Some didn't agree with our decision to override the UN and go into Iraq. Some are using it as a bargaining position to either get work in the rebuild effort or an exchange in power. If everyone is so worried about the people, why not use full resources to contribute? So the USA is wrong for not thinking of the people when going to war, but now it's ok for everyone to snub the rebuild effort when it only hurts the Iraqi people?

    You spend so much on technology during the war to avoid as many military casualties for our soldiers as possible. Our goal entering the war was to oust the regime terrorizing it's own people in Iraq and those involved in worldwide terrorism. This objective has made huge progress and it was money well spent in my opinion. What you're seeing now is the effort to get the country balanced and running smoothly while avoiding pockets of attacks that still exist. The international community *should* be just as interested and committed to rebuilding Iraq. If they didn't see dissension within our country, where the democrats are more interested in political motives than national security, their might be more of an interest in contributing. The fact that anyone would want to *penalize* us for the way we controlled the situation is counter effective to the Iraqi people.

    I guess my 30 seconds of work to apply them was worth it then! I'm glad you finally approve of something. :finger:
     

Share This Page