Spineless Democrats

[ReillyT]

After years of lambasting the Bush administration for its use of warrantless wiretaps, the Democratic leadership of the House has pushed through a bill that legalizes the very activity that they have criticized and immunizes telecom companies who broke the law in facilitating this illegal activity.

CQ reports (sub. req.) that "a final deal has been reached" on FISA and telecom amnesty and "the House is likely to take up the legislation Friday." I've now just read a copy of the final "compromise" bill. It's even worse than expected. When you read it, it's actually hard to believe that the Congress is about to make this into our law. Then again, this is the same Congress that abolished habeas corpus with the Military Commissions Act, and legalized George Bush's warrantless eavesdropping program with the "Protect America Act," so it shouldn't be hard to believe at all...

That's the "compromise" Steny Hoyer negotiated and which he is now -- according to very credible reports -- pressuring every member of the Democratic caucus to support. It's full-scale, unconditional amnesty with no inquiry into whether anyone broke the law. In the U.S. now, thanks to the Democratic Congress, we'll have a new law based on the premise that the President has the power to order private actors to break the law, and when he issues such an order, the private actors will be protected from liability of any kind on the ground that the Leader told them to do it -- the very theory that the Nuremberg Trial rejected

Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

Not only does this reflect badly on the Constitution and eviscerate the 4th Amendment, but it does so at the behest of the Democratic leadership (although the majority of Democrats in the House actually voted against the measure). I don't believe it reflects on anyone quite so badly as the Democratic nominee however, who just months ago promised to filibuster any bill that grants immunity to the telecom companies, but has since changed his position, indicating he will vote for the measure. Is there any weaker, more cowardly group of people in politics than the leadership of the Democratic party?

 

[editec]

I'm not sure, fellow frogs, but is it my imagination, or is the water in this pot getting warmer?

 

[ReillyT]

Dems who flipped on FISA immunity see more telecom cash
House Democrats who flipped their votes to support retroactive immunity for telecom companies in last week’s FISA bill took thousands of dollars more from phone companies than Democrats who consistently voted against legislation with an immunity provision, according to an analysis by MAPLight.org.

The Crypt: Dems who flipped on FISA immunity see more telecom cash - Politico.com

I guess this provides part of the explanation, although I believe that the Democratic leadership is also concerned that discovery in lawsuits would show their complicity with the original warrantless wiretap program.

 

[Ravi]

This really made me mad when I heard about it. Spineless, indeed.

 

[jillian]

Sad and pathetic... they make me sick sometimes. It's one thing to not be able to override one of Bush's vetos. It's another to hand him whatever he wants.

There's no reason for it. The guy has the lowest approval rating ever. Who are they impressing, the 23% of dead-enders?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And yet you will vote for them all. And you will continue to claim the Republicans are all to blame for everything. I can hear it now.

Next year with a Democratic Congress and Democratic President you all will be claiming everything is still Bush's fault. And when we remind you that during Bush's first year you same turds claimed he was to blame for everything you will poo poo and make excuses.

 

[Ravi]

And yet you will vote for them all. And you will continue to claim the Republicans are all to blame for everything. I can hear it now.

Next year with a Democratic Congress and Democratic President you all will be claiming everything is still Bush's fault. And when we remind you that during Bush's first year you same turds claimed he was to blame for everything you will poo poo and make excuses.

It becomes less likely that I'll vote for Obama every day. My rep voted the correct way on this legislation but I doubt my senator will.

The alternative is usually certain death, so to speak.

 

[ReillyT]

And yet you will vote for them all. And you will continue to claim the Republicans are all to blame for everything. I can hear it now.

If, as you say, liberals just blame Republicans for everything, then how do you explain this thread and the responses from liberals?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If, as you say, liberals just blame Republicans for everything, then how do you explain this thread and the responses from liberals?

Remind me again who you will be voting for in November?

 

[ReillyT]

Remind me again who you will be voting for in November?

Obama. That doesn't stop me from criticizing him though. It also doesn't stop me for blaming the Democrats when they do something wrong. I guess I (and Ravi and Jillian) must be exceptions to the liberal strawman that you like to talk about.

 

[AtlasShrieked]

After years of lambasting the Bush administration for its use of warrantless wiretaps, the Democratic leadership of the House has pushed through a bill that legalizes the very activity that they have criticized and immunizes telecom companies who broke the law in facilitating this illegal activity.

the left wing-not blogosphere is having a conniption over this, but they will go ape sh!t when Obama does not come out against it.

I hear there are loop holes big enough to drive a 747 through it, but haven't looked into it yet.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Sure thing, except you spend all your time blaming Bush for just about anything and everything. As for Jillian and Ravi, I believe they both have stated that Bush is to blame for 9/11 for not acting on a nebulous tip that some kind of attack MIGHT occur. Bush had been President all of 8 months, 9/11 was not planned just during those 8 months, The conditions that lead to 9/11 were set in motions years earlier by the Clinton Administration that did nothing to stop it.

And you and those other two ALL claim Bush lied to Congress to get them to authorize war with Iraq. The basic claiming being somehow that he got 16 intel agencies to lie for him, the rest of the world to lie for him and the Democratic leadership to lie for him. And of course they have all stayed quiet all these years.

Don't pretend you don't play the "blame Bush" game.

 

[jillian]

Obama. That doesn't stop me from criticizing him though. It also doesn't stop me for blaming the Democrats when they do something wrong. I guess I (and Ravi and Jillian) must be exceptions to the liberal strawman that you like to talk about.

Funny thing, if McCain didn't out and out say that he's opposed tojudicial review of legislation, I might have voted for him. I also generally vote Repub for mayor and governor.. but *I'm* partisan, right? *rolls eyes*

What do you think the chances are that RGS EVER voted for a democrat?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Funny thing, if McCain didn't out and out say that he's opposed tojudicial review of legislation, I might have voted for him. I also generally vote Repub for mayor and governor.. but *I'm* partisan, right? *rolls eyes*

What do you think the chances are that RGS EVER voted for a democrat?

I voted for a democrat as Senator of Washington on my first election. Figured since he had many years in the Senate he was better for our State, turned out he was a drunk and a womanizer ( go figure, a democrat those things).

I generally vote a straight Republican ticket but this year I will be voting for the Democratic Sheriff and what ever democrat runs against our supposed republican US House Representative. Ohh and I would have voted for Hillary.

 

[ReillyT]

Sure thing, except you spend all your time blaming Bush for just about anything and everything. As for Jillian and Ravi, I believe they both have stated that Bush is to blame for 9/11 for not acting on a nebulous tip that some kind of attack MIGHT occur. Bush had been President all of 8 months, 9/11 was not planned just during those 8 months, The conditions that lead to 9/11 were set in motions years earlier by the Clinton Administration that did nothing to stop it.

And you and those other two ALL claim Bush lied to Congress to get them to authorize war with Iraq. The basic claiming being somehow that he got 16 intel agencies to lie for him, the rest of the world to lie for him and the Democratic leadership to lie for him. And of course they have all stayed quiet all these years.

Don't pretend you don't play the "blame Bush" game.

So it isn't enough that we take our own party to task in a critical manner? We also are not allowed to take the Republican party to task in a critical manner?

I would think this means we are just more objective than you. I don't know what standard you are using.

 

[Ravi]

Sure thing, except you spend all your time blaming Bush for just about anything and everything. As for Jillian and Ravi, I believe they both have stated that Bush is to blame for 9/11 for not acting on a nebulous tip that some kind of attack MIGHT occur. Bush had been President all of 8 months, 9/11 was not planned just during those 8 months, The conditions that lead to 9/11 were set in motions years earlier by the Clinton Administration that did nothing to stop it.

And you and those other two ALL claim Bush lied to Congress to get them to authorize war with Iraq. The basic claiming being somehow that he got 16 intel agencies to lie for him, the rest of the world to lie for him and the Democratic leadership to lie for him. And of course they have all stayed quiet all these years.

Don't pretend you don't play the "blame Bush" game.

Oh, stop. Neither Bush or Clinton are directly responsible for 9/11. They both made mistakes and could have done something stronger...Clinton could have told the Reps to STFU when he was going after bin laden, and Bush could have taken the Clinton administrations warnings seriously.

I also don't think the intel agencies lied for the most part. Bush used the intelligence selectively to go after Saddam. A waste of time, money and lives and a horrible chapter of our history.

 

[ReillyT]

There is no point arguing with him on the details. Live actual Democrats with nuanced positions will never be a match of RGS's hypothetical liberal.

 

[busara]

And yet you will vote for them all. And you will continue to claim the Republicans are all to blame for everything. I can hear it now.

you mean like the repubs blamed everything on clinton? goes both ways

 

[BrianH]

you mean like the repubs blamed everything on clinton? goes both ways

Exactly, there is no party better than the other. Both do dispicable things for power and play their games to make themselves look better and the other look worse. If I didn't plan on complaining, I wouldn't vote at all.

 

[Anguille]

.... Ohh and I would have voted for Hillary.

Really? If that is true, I have renewed respect for you.