Speculation about the Health Care Bill

[Wolfstrike]

although it's true many people are against the bill i feel i'm one of the only people , on the victim side, that understand the true potential of this legal monstrosity.

first of all, there is only one issue about this bill that is important, and that's the MANDATE that FORCES people to buy insurance.
this is an unbelievable amount of power given to companies by the government.

the current estimate for NOT buying insurance is a tax of $1300 per year, and there is nothing that says that amount won't rise or double.
if my premium was $1300 , that would be more money than i paid when i had insurance.

1) There's going to be a massive increase in the health care industry.
basically what will happen is, the insurance companies will tally up the cost of doing business, add many high paying jobs, add loosely related jobs and services, add in hefty profits, and bill the whole thing to the public.
the expense will be divided by an average premium rate. ($1300 per working person is a lot of money)
the health care industry could increase 10 fold.
since the money is extorted from the public, the health care industry is probably going to be one of the only places to get a good job.

2) Given the fact that only 3% of Massachusetts refused to buy insurance, we can expect probably 92% of working people in the country to go along with the program.
the next logical step is to automatically deduct premiums from the paycheck, we can expect that people like me who don't buy insurance won't have no choice. the company will put you on the plan as soon as you are hired.

3) I expect premiums will differ from zip-code. this is the way they get money from people who have it and give people a break who don't.

4) Obviously insurance companies will offer coverage to businesses in group plans. eventually, the bigger your company is, the more everyone will pay. there will be fees for individuals and fees for the company, as there is now

5) Much of the Western Hemisphere is going to migrate to America while the good times last.
Not everyone is going to pay for insurance.
the Health Care Bill lists illegal aliens as exempt.
these people are going to receive free coverage , paid for by people who work in America.
this bill could destroy everything we know about America.
there will be more insentive to move here, less insentive to become a citizen, and more insentive to sit on the ass with free benefits then become a productive part of society

6) Doctors are going to start being ripped off. insurance companies will dictate sub-low payment for procedures.
(the current bill has price controls for doctors)
doctors are going to be over-worked and REALLY not care about anything

7) There not going to allow people to claim "self-employed" and not pay into the system.
there will be millions of people who would-have started a business that will be chased away because of another expense.
we can expect that once you claim "self employed" you will have to show insurance before you get a business license...or something similar.

8) There will be an almost instantaneous over-load on the system, mostly filled by routine check-ups. people will have to start waiting for appointments and people with real problems will have to wait longer.
things are going to start looking like county hospitals.

9) The rich will have options to buy premium plans that will place them at the head of the line.

10) Things like vitamins, flu shots, certain drugs, and certain tests will become MANDATORY or you won't be covered, ...but still have to pay.
if you don't show up for your baby embryo flu shot, you won't get full treatment when you have a serious issue.
you will start being called to the medical center, probably bi-monthly.

11) No matter how much they claim "death panels" are fiction, the truth is every plan of action for every ailment will be pre-determined.
of course many people will die waiting for a chain of events, or die because someone has decided there will be no more treatment.
many more people will be upset that they are not getting the treatment they fell they need.


12) The days of second opinions are over. each doctor will register a pre-determined plan of action, if you feel there is a misdiagnosis, or things aren't moving fast enough ,too bad.
everything will be listed on medical records that will be shared with every doctor who you are involved with, who will all be required to follow the same procedures.

13) It will be far easier for pharmaceutical companies to test their products on live people as a board will determine which drugs to use as standard procedure.
instead of the direction we should be heading, questioning if all these drugs are damaging to us.

14) Every two-bit health scam will become a mandatory part of treatment.
a person might be punished in some way for smoking, drinking coffee, or eating at Taco Bell.
people who don't play Simon-Says will probably have to pay higher premiums.
the health care industry will be able to dictate which companies offer "healthy" products, and which are ruined by being labeled "unhealthy"

15) The health care industry will become a massive bureaucracy, even bigger than it already is, as more employees are added and more profit is pulled out , you can expect premiums to rise every couple of years.
like all Socialist plans, health care will have to be broken every year, so they can demand more money from the public.

 

[dblack]

although it's true many people are against the bill i feel i'm one of the only people , on the victim side, that understand the true potential of this legal monstrosity.

first of all, there is only one issue about this bill that is important, and that's the MANDATE that FORCES people to buy insurance.
this is an unbelievable amount of power given to companies by the government.

the current estimate for NOT buying insurance is a tax of $1300 per year, and there is nothing that says that amount won't rise or double.
if my premium was $1300 , that would be more money than i paid when i had insurance.

1) There's going to be a massive increase in the health care industry.
basically what will happen is, the insurance companies will tally up the cost of doing business, add many high paying jobs, add loosely related jobs and services, add in hefty profits, and bill the whole thing to the public.
the expense will be divided by an average premium rate. ($1300 per working person is a lot of money)
the health care industry could increase 10 fold.
since the money is extorted from the public, the health care industry is probably going to be one of the only places to get a good job.

2) Given the fact that only 3% of Massachusetts refused to buy insurance, we can expect probably 92% of working people in the country to go along with the program.
the next logical step is to automatically deduct premiums from the paycheck, we can expect that people like me who don't buy insurance won't have no choice. the company will put you on the plan as soon as you are hired.

3) I expect premiums will differ from zip-code. this is the way they get money from people who have it and give people a break who don't.

4) Obviously insurance companies will offer coverage to businesses in group plans. eventually, the bigger your company is, the more everyone will pay. there will be fees for individuals and fees for the company, as there is now

5) Much of the Western Hemisphere is going to migrate to America while the good times last.
Not everyone is going to pay for insurance.
the Health Care Bill lists illegal aliens as exempt.
these people are going to receive free coverage , paid for by people who work in America.
this bill could destroy everything we know about America.
there will be more insentive to move here, less insentive to become a citizen, and more insentive to sit on the ass with free benefits then become a productive part of society

6) Doctors are going to start being ripped off. insurance companies will dictate sub-low payment for procedures.
(the current bill has price controls for doctors)
doctors are going to be over-worked and REALLY not care about anything

7) There not going to allow people to claim "self-employed" and not pay into the system.
there will be millions of people who would-have started a business that will be chased away because of another expense.
we can expect that once you claim "self employed" you will have to show insurance before you get a business license...or something similar.

8) There will be an almost instantaneous over-load on the system, mostly filled by routine check-ups. people will have to start waiting for appointments and people with real problems will have to wait longer.
things are going to start looking like county hospitals.

9) The rich will have options to buy premium plans that will place them at the head of the line.

10) Things like vitamins, flu shots, certain drugs, and certain tests will become MANDATORY or you won't be covered, ...but still have to pay.
if you don't show up for your baby embryo flu shot, you won't get full treatment when you have a serious issue.
you will start being called to the medical center, probably bi-monthly.

11) No matter how much they claim "death panels" are fiction, the truth is every plan of action for every ailment will be pre-determined.
of course many people will die waiting for a chain of events, or die because someone has decided there will be no more treatment.
many more people will be upset that they are not getting the treatment they fell they need.


12) The days of second opinions are over. each doctor will register a pre-determined plan of action, if you feel there is a misdiagnosis, or things aren't moving fast enough ,too bad.
everything will be listed on medical records that will be shared with every doctor who you are involved with, who will all be required to follow the same procedures.

13) It will be far easier for pharmaceutical companies to test their products on live people as a board will determine which drugs to use as standard procedure.
instead of the direction we should be heading, questioning if all these drugs are damaging to us.

14) Every two-bit health scam will become a mandatory part of treatment.
a person might be punished in some way for smoking, drinking coffee, or eating at Taco Bell.
people who don't play Simon-Says will probably have to pay higher premiums.
the health care industry will be able to dictate which companies offer "healthy" products, and which are ruined by being labeled "unhealthy"

15) The health care industry will become a massive bureaucracy, even bigger than it already is, as more employees are added and more profit is pulled out , you can expect premiums to rise every couple of years.
like all Socialist plans, health care will have to be broken every year, so they can demand more money from the public.

Yep. Lots of detrimental, unintended (or at least, unstipulated - I suspect many of them were quite 'intended') consequences will come out of this. In the end, we'll have what the corporatists have wanted for decades: centralized control of another life's necessities.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Well, I stopped reading early in this diatribe but have this to say about what I did read.

You're wrong and instead of "speculating", why not go for FACTS??

I've posted several links over an over again ad really, rw's never read them. They just re-tell the same bunch of UNTRUTHS.

When you decide you want to find out FACTS and how you're throwing away YOUR money right now, get some real answers and stop making crap up. Really, it always surprises me that rw's are very happy to throw their own money out the window just so they can be against Affordable Health Care.

I know you won't read them but posting them anyway. And, I purposely just took the top bunch of links at google so please, spare me the usual whine about liberal websites. There are plenty of both so if you don't like these, fee free to post sites of your own choosing.

FactCheck.org : health care reform

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...8/top-10-facts-know-about-health-care-reform/

Health Care Reform Bill–26 Facts and Figures

7 Facts About Health Care Reform Decision | Supreme Court Health Care | MyHealthNewsDaily.com

Health Care Reform Law Fact Sheets - Affordable Care Act, New Health Care Law, Medicare, Small Business - AARP

Health Care Reform: Myths vs. Facts « WebMD Newsroom

 

[Luddly Neddite]

although it's true many people are against the bill i feel i'm one of the only people , on the victim side, that understand the true potential of this legal monstrosity.

first of all, there is only one issue about this bill that is important, and that's the MANDATE that FORCES people to buy insurance.
this is an unbelievable amount of power given to companies by the government.

the current estimate for NOT buying insurance is a tax of $1300 per year, and there is nothing that says that amount won't rise or double.
if my premium was $1300 , that would be more money than i paid when i had insurance.

1) There's going to be a massive increase in the health care industry.
basically what will happen is, the insurance companies will tally up the cost of doing business, add many high paying jobs, add loosely related jobs and services, add in hefty profits, and bill the whole thing to the public.
the expense will be divided by an average premium rate. ($1300 per working person is a lot of money)
the health care industry could increase 10 fold.
since the money is extorted from the public, the health care industry is probably going to be one of the only places to get a good job.

2) Given the fact that only 3% of Massachusetts refused to buy insurance, we can expect probably 92% of working people in the country to go along with the program.
the next logical step is to automatically deduct premiums from the paycheck, we can expect that people like me who don't buy insurance won't have no choice. the company will put you on the plan as soon as you are hired.

3) I expect premiums will differ from zip-code. this is the way they get money from people who have it and give people a break who don't.

4) Obviously insurance companies will offer coverage to businesses in group plans. eventually, the bigger your company is, the more everyone will pay. there will be fees for individuals and fees for the company, as there is now

5) Much of the Western Hemisphere is going to migrate to America while the good times last.
Not everyone is going to pay for insurance.
the Health Care Bill lists illegal aliens as exempt.
these people are going to receive free coverage , paid for by people who work in America.
this bill could destroy everything we know about America.
there will be more insentive to move here, less insentive to become a citizen, and more insentive to sit on the ass with free benefits then become a productive part of society

6) Doctors are going to start being ripped off. insurance companies will dictate sub-low payment for procedures.
(the current bill has price controls for doctors)
doctors are going to be over-worked and REALLY not care about anything

7) There not going to allow people to claim "self-employed" and not pay into the system.
there will be millions of people who would-have started a business that will be chased away because of another expense.
we can expect that once you claim "self employed" you will have to show insurance before you get a business license...or something similar.

8) There will be an almost instantaneous over-load on the system, mostly filled by routine check-ups. people will have to start waiting for appointments and people with real problems will have to wait longer.
things are going to start looking like county hospitals.

9) The rich will have options to buy premium plans that will place them at the head of the line.

10) Things like vitamins, flu shots, certain drugs, and certain tests will become MANDATORY or you won't be covered, ...but still have to pay.
if you don't show up for your baby embryo flu shot, you won't get full treatment when you have a serious issue.
you will start being called to the medical center, probably bi-monthly.

11) No matter how much they claim "death panels" are fiction, the truth is every plan of action for every ailment will be pre-determined.
of course many people will die waiting for a chain of events, or die because someone has decided there will be no more treatment.
many more people will be upset that they are not getting the treatment they fell they need.


12) The days of second opinions are over. each doctor will register a pre-determined plan of action, if you feel there is a misdiagnosis, or things aren't moving fast enough ,too bad.
everything will be listed on medical records that will be shared with every doctor who you are involved with, who will all be required to follow the same procedures.

13) It will be far easier for pharmaceutical companies to test their products on live people as a board will determine which drugs to use as standard procedure.
instead of the direction we should be heading, questioning if all these drugs are damaging to us.

14) Every two-bit health scam will become a mandatory part of treatment.
a person might be punished in some way for smoking, drinking coffee, or eating at Taco Bell.
people who don't play Simon-Says will probably have to pay higher premiums.
the health care industry will be able to dictate which companies offer "healthy" products, and which are ruined by being labeled "unhealthy"

15) The health care industry will become a massive bureaucracy, even bigger than it already is, as more employees are added and more profit is pulled out , you can expect premiums to rise every couple of years.
like all Socialist plans, health care will have to be broken every year, so they can demand more money from the public.

Yep. Lots of detrimental, unintended (or at least, unstipulated - I suspect many of them were quite 'intended') consequences will come out of this. In the end, we'll have what the corporatists have wanted for decades: centralized control of another life's necessities.

Like what?

and please, not just an opinion.

Let's stop "speculating" and stick with FACTS.

Thanks.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Nothing like facts to scare off the rw's.

LOL

 

[dblack]

Nothing like facts to scare off the rw's.

LOL

LOL, . Like the way you run away from the FACT that PPACA is bailout of a failing insurance industry? That it's a corporatist deal-with-the-devil that takes away the most fundamental freedom consumers have - the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that isn't worth a shit? How 'bout that, FACT boy?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Nothing like facts to scare off the rw's.

LOL

LOL, . Like the way you run away from the FACT that PPACA is bailout of a failing insurance industry? That it's a corporatist deal-with-the-devil that takes away the most fundamental freedom consumers have - the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that isn't worth a shit? How 'bout that, FACT boy?

Really?

Then why are they now required to spend 80 cents out of every dollar on patient care? And, why are they sending out refunds of the money they did not send on patient care?

If you have not received your refund yet, call your health insurance company.

You can opt out. You just ca't force me to pay for your care. Don't like it? Tough. Can't afford it? You don't have to.

READ THE FACTS.

 

[dblack]

why are they now required to spend 80 cents out of every dollar on patient care? And, why are they sending out refunds of the money they did not send on patient care?

Because they're tickled pink to have legally mandated themselves customers in perpetuity? A guaranteed twenty percent is a CEO's wet dream. Your "team" sold us out to people they pretend to oppose. How do you sleep?

 

[dblack]

crickets...


where is the fact boy?

 

[auditor0007]

although it's true many people are against the bill i feel i'm one of the only people , on the victim side, that understand the true potential of this legal monstrosity.

first of all, there is only one issue about this bill that is important, and that's the MANDATE that FORCES people to buy insurance.
this is an unbelievable amount of power given to companies by the government.

the current estimate for NOT buying insurance is a tax of $1300 per year, and there is nothing that says that amount won't rise or double.
if my premium was $1300 , that would be more money than i paid when i had insurance.

1) There's going to be a massive increase in the health care industry.
basically what will happen is, the insurance companies will tally up the cost of doing business, add many high paying jobs, add loosely related jobs and services, add in hefty profits, and bill the whole thing to the public.
the expense will be divided by an average premium rate. ($1300 per working person is a lot of money)
the health care industry could increase 10 fold.
since the money is extorted from the public, the health care industry is probably going to be one of the only places to get a good job.

2) Given the fact that only 3% of Massachusetts refused to buy insurance, we can expect probably 92% of working people in the country to go along with the program.
the next logical step is to automatically deduct premiums from the paycheck, we can expect that people like me who don't buy insurance won't have no choice. the company will put you on the plan as soon as you are hired.

3) I expect premiums will differ from zip-code. this is the way they get money from people who have it and give people a break who don't.

4) Obviously insurance companies will offer coverage to businesses in group plans. eventually, the bigger your company is, the more everyone will pay. there will be fees for individuals and fees for the company, as there is now

5) Much of the Western Hemisphere is going to migrate to America while the good times last.
Not everyone is going to pay for insurance.
the Health Care Bill lists illegal aliens as exempt.
these people are going to receive free coverage , paid for by people who work in America.
this bill could destroy everything we know about America.
there will be more insentive to move here, less insentive to become a citizen, and more insentive to sit on the ass with free benefits then become a productive part of society

6) Doctors are going to start being ripped off. insurance companies will dictate sub-low payment for procedures.
(the current bill has price controls for doctors)
doctors are going to be over-worked and REALLY not care about anything

7) There not going to allow people to claim "self-employed" and not pay into the system.
there will be millions of people who would-have started a business that will be chased away because of another expense.
we can expect that once you claim "self employed" you will have to show insurance before you get a business license...or something similar.

8) There will be an almost instantaneous over-load on the system, mostly filled by routine check-ups. people will have to start waiting for appointments and people with real problems will have to wait longer.
things are going to start looking like county hospitals.

9) The rich will have options to buy premium plans that will place them at the head of the line.

10) Things like vitamins, flu shots, certain drugs, and certain tests will become MANDATORY or you won't be covered, ...but still have to pay.
if you don't show up for your baby embryo flu shot, you won't get full treatment when you have a serious issue.
you will start being called to the medical center, probably bi-monthly.

11) No matter how much they claim "death panels" are fiction, the truth is every plan of action for every ailment will be pre-determined.
of course many people will die waiting for a chain of events, or die because someone has decided there will be no more treatment.
many more people will be upset that they are not getting the treatment they fell they need.


12) The days of second opinions are over. each doctor will register a pre-determined plan of action, if you feel there is a misdiagnosis, or things aren't moving fast enough ,too bad.
everything will be listed on medical records that will be shared with every doctor who you are involved with, who will all be required to follow the same procedures.

13) It will be far easier for pharmaceutical companies to test their products on live people as a board will determine which drugs to use as standard procedure.
instead of the direction we should be heading, questioning if all these drugs are damaging to us.

14) Every two-bit health scam will become a mandatory part of treatment.
a person might be punished in some way for smoking, drinking coffee, or eating at Taco Bell.
people who don't play Simon-Says will probably have to pay higher premiums.
the health care industry will be able to dictate which companies offer "healthy" products, and which are ruined by being labeled "unhealthy"

15) The health care industry will become a massive bureaucracy, even bigger than it already is, as more employees are added and more profit is pulled out , you can expect premiums to rise every couple of years.
like all Socialist plans, health care will have to be broken every year, so they can demand more money from the public.

I'm not going to go into every one of these, but there are so many flaws in your argument. None the less, let's just look at #7. Basically, you are saying that people won't start their own business because they will have to pay for health insurance. That doesn't even make sense. I have a better one for you. People with pre-existing conditions cannot afford to start their own business because they can't get health insurance and do not want to go without, so they will stay working for someone else where they know they will at least have health insurance.

 

[editec]

I share your concerns about the efficacy of ObamaCare.

What's more I have additional complaints about that policy that you failed to mention.

For example...I see no effective means in place to limit the rate of growth in costs.

This bill was largely the same proposal that the GOP advanced for years and years.

It will not be effective in putting a lid on rising prices.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

crickets...


where is the fact boy?

Can you count?

If so, count the number of threads that are basically covering the very same question.

So, you not only expect to get health care and pay for it at your convenience, you also expect me to follow you from thread to thread trying, IN VAIN, to explain it to you.

No thanks.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Lucy James

Let's not destroy a system that works well for most Americans.

What "system" works well for "most" Americans?

What we have is a mess, over priced and catering to insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Insurance companies decide who gets care and who does not.

We do not have a health care system in the United States.

In addition to links posted above and other links you can find on line, I highly recommend

Money-Driven Medicine

Bill Moyers Journal . MONEY-DRIVEN MEDICINE | PBS

 

[Greenbeard]

Some obvious points:

1) The massive increase in the health care sector has already been happening; that's what it means to say that it gobbles up a larger portion of GDP every year. It's a sector that hasn't seen the labor productivity gains that others have. In many ways, it's a field that has a long way to go--it's just started in earnest to begin taking advantage of the information revolution that other sectors incorporated into their business models and cultures decades ago.

You're starting to see signs of change now--new care models, new tools, new uses of different types of care professionals to make the most and best use of scarce resources (what they call practicing to the top of one's licensure)--but change is hard. And providers can be intransigent.

2) Autoenrollment by employers (obviously, with the option to opt out) is already pretty common.

3) Of course insurance premiums will vary with geography. All health care is local, something folks who think the answer to rising health costs is to make it easier to by a plan from an Alaskan carrier (or other mythical "across state lines" savior) would do well to think about.

4) Large businesses generally don't buy health insurance from insurance companies. They may contract with them to provide administrative services but they rarely actually buy an insurance product from them because larger employers self-insure.

5) Illegal aliens don't get free insurance coverage. In an inexplicable and indefensibly xenophobic provision that made it into the ACA, they're not even allowed to buy insurance plans entirely with their own money in the new insurance markets that will soon be opening their doors.

6) I'd be more concerned about insurers being "ripped off" by providers than vice versa. And I am.

7) The self-employed will gain access to high quality coverage in the new markets like everyone else who's not in a group plan. If they don't want to buy it, they can pay the tax penalty like anyone else would.

8) Our chronic disease burden is bleeding us dry and you're worried about people getting check-ups?

9) The rich (or anyone who considers that the best use of their resources) can already buy "premium plans" that offer more. They'll continue to enjoy that right, as that's how markets work. This is America, comrade.

10) If your insurer refuses to pay for covered services that are medically necessary, I'd suggest considering legal actions. If you need to find the resources available in your state to help you exercise your rights as a consumer, start here: Consumer Help | HealthCare.gov

11) How far down the line are you looking? The year 2525?

12) You know, "everything will be listed on medical records that will be shared with every doctor who you are involved with" should be happening now. It's a pretty serious indictment of the system that this isn't always the case. Clinicians shouldn't be making decisions without having full access to your medical information, nor should they be keeping colleagues in the dark so that you're getting parallel, uncoordinated treatments.

13) I don't really have words for this one.

14) The extent to which health insurance premiums should reflect individual risk factors vs community risk factors is a rather large debate the country just had three years ago. It's not entirely clear to me if you're aware of where that one came down.

15) That's a pretty broad (and vague) statement. The replacement of the local doc with the black bag accepting chickens for payment with multi-specialty group practices and even entire integrated health systems presumably represents a large increase in bureaucracy. Societies evolve toward greater complexity as they grow and advance, and complexity requires an additional degree of organization and formality. But it also opens up an entirely new universe of possibilities for treating patients.

 

[pareshaegis]

Hello Everybody.

First, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), France has the best health care system in the world . It has been widely reported that the WHO found the French system to be number 1 while the Canadian system is number 30 and the U.S. number 37.

All your comment for healthcare solutions are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Annie]

While Obamacare is fact, it's not too late for reform. Just caught this, maybe I can find a job in OK?

In many ways this endeavor actually expands on an simple plan I've posted on several times on this forum.

Catastrophic insurance is a necessity, but really it makes sense to have physicals, well baby check ups, inoculations, stitches, etc., paid directly by patients. No administrative costs or much lower for just making payment arrangements. No government or insurance company paper work, much less follow ups and haggling about payments. Heck, they could even start the equivalent of what we all see at our local groceries, 'give $1, $5, $10, or more to help local folks that don't have the ability to pay. Lots of folks would, they do for the food.

[ame=http://youtu.be/0uPdkhMVdMQ]Oklahoma Doctors vs. Obamacare - YouTube[/ame]

 

[dblack]

While Obamacare is fact, it's not too late for reform. Just caught this, maybe I can find a job in OK?

In many ways this endeavor actually expands on an simple plan I've posted on several times on this forum.

Catastrophic insurance is a necessity, but really it makes sense to have physicals, well baby check ups, inoculations, stitches, etc., paid directly by patients. No administrative costs or much lower for just making payment arrangements. No government or insurance company paper work, much less follow ups and haggling about payments. Heck, they could even start the equivalent of what we all see at our local groceries, 'give $1, $5, $10, or more to help local folks that don't have the ability to pay. Lots of folks would, they do for the food.

This is the thing. And it's no surprise the vested interests in the health care industry want to avoid such real solutions. They've got a pretty sweet set up. As long as they can control government policy (which seems sure bet at this point), they win.

 

[Annie]

While Obamacare is fact, it's not too late for reform. Just caught this, maybe I can find a job in OK?

In many ways this endeavor actually expands on an simple plan I've posted on several times on this forum.

Catastrophic insurance is a necessity, but really it makes sense to have physicals, well baby check ups, inoculations, stitches, etc., paid directly by patients. No administrative costs or much lower for just making payment arrangements. No government or insurance company paper work, much less follow ups and haggling about payments. Heck, they could even start the equivalent of what we all see at our local groceries, 'give $1, $5, $10, or more to help local folks that don't have the ability to pay. Lots of folks would, they do for the food.

This is the thing. And it's no surprise the vested interests in the health care industry want to avoid such real solutions. They've got a pretty sweet set up. As long as they can control government policy (which seems sure bet at this point), they win.

I hope you're wrong. For decades folks have complained about the costs of hospital bills, even though 'covered' by insurance. Nothing about Obamacare changes those problems, in fact, entrenches them.

Employers have a further incentive to find cost effective alternatives to keep their best employees. Question is, will more markets become available? What will be government reaction if that comes to pass?

 

[dblack]

While Obamacare is fact, it's not too late for reform. Just caught this, maybe I can find a job in OK?

In many ways this endeavor actually expands on an simple plan I've posted on several times on this forum.

Catastrophic insurance is a necessity, but really it makes sense to have physicals, well baby check ups, inoculations, stitches, etc., paid directly by patients. No administrative costs or much lower for just making payment arrangements. No government or insurance company paper work, much less follow ups and haggling about payments. Heck, they could even start the equivalent of what we all see at our local groceries, 'give $1, $5, $10, or more to help local folks that don't have the ability to pay. Lots of folks would, they do for the food.

This is the thing. And it's no surprise the vested interests in the health care industry want to avoid such real solutions. They've got a pretty sweet set up. As long as they can control government policy (which seems sure bet at this point), they win.

I hope you're wrong. For decades folks have complained about the costs of hospital bills, even though 'covered' by insurance. Nothing about Obamacare changes those problems, in fact, entrenches them.

Employers have a further incentive to find cost effective alternatives to keep their best employees. Question is, will more markets become available? What will be government reaction if that comes to pass?

We may have missed that window. The insurance industry saw the writing on the wall and moved to prevent people bailing on their scam. That's what PPACA is all about. Both government and the insurance industry want control of health care, and they're willing to share the spoils to get what they want.