Specific question to Liberals

[TheBrain]

Let me ask you liberal idiots who think a company doesn't have the right to just fire you for any reason , or no reason, whatsoever, are you likewise not entitled to quit a job at any time?

 

[rdean]

Because that is not what Mass. is doing.

They are eliminating collective bargaining for copays and deductibles only...

The plan, which now goes to the State Senate, gives local officials the ability of municipal governments to set copayments and deductibles for municipal workers. Only the amount of yearly premiums paid by workers would be on the negotiation table for public workers.

Well actually it is what they are doing, one step at a time, you're own article says so...

“This basically eliminates collective bargaining as we know it "says SEIU Local 888 Bruce Boccardy who represents 200 public bargaining units throughout Massachusetts. “This is the first step in a long process to eliminating collective bargaining for public employees in the state of Massachusetts."

The threat of layoffs if collectively bargaining rights weren’t trimmed seems to match similar rhetoric coming from Governor Scott Walker (R-Wis.).

The big difference: The rhetoric is coming from a Democrat."

Like I said, only the copays and deductibles.

Not union busting.

Nice try though. You guys have so little going for you, I feel kind of bad for you.

That's because the right can't get past the "big words".

They see the title:

Massachusetts Dems Pass Bill to ‘Eliminate Collective Bargaining as We Know It’

But don't read the article. Possibly do to a "short attention span"?

“Yes, it’s a small curtailment of their collective bargaining powers,” Mr. Widmer said of municipal unions, “but with the corollary that it will save lots of their members’ jobs.”

Under the House plan, co-payments and deductibles for municipal workers would have to be at least equal to those of state employees. And unions would retain the right to negotiate what portion of premiums their members paid.

 

[initforme]

Ok, I'll speak up and say that both laws are simply corporate sponsored bills to make sure they get the money that those affected will be paying in now. We all know that the big corporations will receive the increased contributions that public workers will be paying in. My daughter will now be paying in an extra $600 per month and that will go directly to some company so they dont have to pay any taxes. Thats how the system is now going to work. In wisconsin and massachusetts, it is a power grab either way, sponsored only by big money ONLY for big money to get, not to balance the budget. That has been proven to be false.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ok, I'll speak up and say that both laws are simply corporate sponsored bills to make sure they get the money that those affected will be paying in now. We all know that the big corporations will receive the increased contributions that public workers will be paying in. My daughter will now be paying in an extra $600 per month and that will go directly to some company so they dont have to pay any taxes. Thats how the system is now going to work. In wisconsin and massachusetts, it is a power grab either way, sponsored only by big money ONLY for big money to get, not to balance the budget. That has been proven to be false.

Huh?
Other than the point that corporations are big scary greedy entities did anyone else understand any part of that nonsense?

 

[initforme]

Ok, try this. This is english now. ANd I'll type it slow so you can understand.

WHen the gov of wisc introduced the bill, it included the increased contributions from public employees for their pensions and health care. After a week, the unions decided they would accept the increased contributions. But that wasnt enough. So, where the controversy comes in is where all collective bargaining would also be stripped. Hence, the protests.
So, those increased contributions will not be going to help balance the so called budget deficit (an amount that changes daily, and gets smaller) but will be going directly to corporations. In essence, the money the public workers now pay in will be shipped over to the companies that were pushing for the bill to go through so they can continue not to pay any taxes while the working middle class gives them their money.

 

[Too Tall]

The fact that you LOL'd at my post just shows YOUR ignorance.

The fact that you said you don't have freedom of speech ANYWHERE in private society (including inside the workforce) shows how little you know of freedom and rights.

Sure, you can't yell "FIRE!!" at an airport. That's not what we are talking about though. We are talking about corporate, predatory practices that go against the workers.

Same with all the other rights. You think just because the law says you cant discriminate that means no corporation discriminates? Wow. Speechless

"Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere."

- Martin Luther King Jr.

That isn't what I said at all you idiot.

If you're discriminated against, the courts have a remedy for you. The unions are unnecessary, and there isn't a person here who truly thinks they are.

I believe the entire discrimination issue is bullshit anyway. If I own a business, it's MY property. I should be able to hire, and serve whomever I want.

Same with your free speech bullshit. If I own a company you're damn right I have the right to limit what you can and can't say on MY property.

Calling me an idiot isn't going to make you right. I'm sorry to break it to you. This is a political debate, not an ego contest

You have forgotten that a lot of the courts are run by corporate lawyers. Another thing you forgot, the jury has to decide whether you are guilty or not. The jury will not always rule in what is considered the truth. There is plenty of proof in history to show that. So unions are necessary. The fact that no one here thinks they are doesn't make your argument more right. Argumentum ad populum

And actually if you own a business, it's NOT your property. In order to have a business, you have to hire workers to produce for you. Doing business is a collective thing. Businesses aren't run by one person. They are run by communities of people. You may have more money than the rest of the workers, but that doesn't give you a say in whether you can fire them and put them out on the street just because they have different skin color.

You see, when you own a house and isyou don't like having black people in your house, that's one thing. But when you own a HUGE corporation, with so much power and so much influence, it is a totally different story to tell people to "get out, your black/Hispanic/Asian."

You see, corporations have so much power and influence that they have the power to control governments. So in a way, a corporation telling you to get out is kind of similar to the government telling you to get out. You could do that with anybody, and you can influence communities by practicing discrimination. That is not fair to the PEOPLE. And they have a right to speak out against this. Whether it's YOU or someone else who is in charge of the corporation.

I rest my case.

I thought this thread was about Unions. Your racist rant is way off the subject.

 

[Too Tall]

Ok, try this. This is english now. ANd I'll type it slow so you can understand.

WHen the gov of wisc introduced the bill, it included the increased contributions from public employees for their pensions and health care. After a week, the unions decided they would accept the increased contributions. But that wasnt enough. So, where the controversy comes in is where all collective bargaining would also be stripped. Hence, the protests.
So, those increased contributions will not be going to help balance the so called budget deficit (an amount that changes daily, and gets smaller) but will be going directly to corporations. In essence, the money the public workers now pay in will be shipped over to the companies that were pushing for the bill to go through so they can continue not to pay any taxes while the working middle class gives them their money.

Corporation and companies have absolutely nothing to do with the Wisconsin law. The law only applies to PUBLIC employees who are paid by the government and the government gets the money to pay them from the taxpayers. Having PUBLIC employees pay part of their retirement plan and part of their health insurance means the government doesn't have to raise taxes to pay those benefits for them. That reduces the government deficit.

Collective bargaining on those benefits was also removed, since any fool knows that the next union contract would bargain to restore free retirement and health care.

The tax breaks for corporations is for those that move to the state of Wisconsin. It is a tax break, not an exemption from paying any taxes. Perhaps some of the companies that are being taxed out of business in Illinois will move to Wisconsin and hire a bunch of people who will pay taxes and further lower the state's deficit.

 

[Too Tall]

Let's see... Unions aren't necessary... OK. Let's just wait and see. When your job keeps dropping in "value" for no other reason than you employer wanting more of the "pie" and the rest of your industry follows suit and the next thing you know, you are one of the "working poor" that none of you Conservatives EVER want to acknowledge(it's either those Deadbeats or those poor, embattled Rich Folk,,, nothing in between), then you can thank those states' legislators for screwing you over.

Because make no mistake. As Union pay scales go, so do non-union pay scales. I find it so damned amusing how you guys are willing to kiss "the man's" ass, pay their outrageous Health Care Premiums that they no longer pay the lion's share of, See your wages stagnate, see your opportunities diminish, see them gain more money and power and still plead poverty when it comes to taxation and the all holy "job creation" you speak of.... and still nod your heads like drones about unions.

AS pointed out, there is a huge difference between Wisconsin and Massachusetts, and no... it's not just Red vs. Blue(as you numbnuts think everything is). It has to do with the scope and scale of the attack against employees. I love the way you guys paint union members as "thugs", but I find it funny that when REASONABLE concessions are mandated... you nary hear a peep. Not because it's a "DEM" state, but because they aren't demanding much.

Of course the Unions are going to bluster about it, of course they may call for picketing. That's their job.. to get the best deal they can for their members.

Why didn't I speak out against it? This was the first I heard... I do have a life away from the message board, ya know? I have a full time Job that requires me to work 2 out of 3 weekends, I have a lovely wife and 2 kids. Maybe you have nothing better to do than slam liberals, but I have much better things to do than slam Conservatives. Maybe that's why you guys are so obsessed! Hell, you're lonely and Glenn Beck and the boys of FOX and AM radio are your only friends.

It's sad, really.

You don't have time and then you find time. LMAO

 

[WillowTree]

Why do Republicans hate American workers having rights?

Oh, I forgot, Republicans are "owned" by corporations. Hope that helps them get jobs. Hasn't worked so far.

What do you plan to replace American corporations with DUmmie?

 

[daveman]

Why do Republicans hate American workers having rights?

Oh, I forgot, Republicans are "owned" by corporations. Hope that helps them get jobs. Hasn't worked so far.

What do you plan to replace American corporations with DUmmie?

They'll be given to big Democrat Party donors.

 

[The T]

Why do Republicans hate American workers having rights?

Oh, I forgot, Republicans are "owned" by corporations. Hope that helps them get jobs. Hasn't worked so far.

What do you plan to replace American corporations with DUmmie?

Slavery to a government that could care less of the people except thier votes and taxes to keep the elitists in gubmint in power...

 

[Steelplate]

Let's see... Unions aren't necessary... OK. Let's just wait and see. When your job keeps dropping in "value" for no other reason than you employer wanting more of the "pie" and the rest of your industry follows suit and the next thing you know, you are one of the "working poor" that none of you Conservatives EVER want to acknowledge(it's either those Deadbeats or those poor, embattled Rich Folk,,, nothing in between), then you can thank those states' legislators for screwing you over.

Because make no mistake. As Union pay scales go, so do non-union pay scales. I find it so damned amusing how you guys are willing to kiss "the man's" ass, pay their outrageous Health Care Premiums that they no longer pay the lion's share of, See your wages stagnate, see your opportunities diminish, see them gain more money and power and still plead poverty when it comes to taxation and the all holy "job creation" you speak of.... and still nod your heads like drones about unions.

AS pointed out, there is a huge difference between Wisconsin and Massachusetts, and no... it's not just Red vs. Blue(as you numbnuts think everything is). It has to do with the scope and scale of the attack against employees. I love the way you guys paint union members as "thugs", but I find it funny that when REASONABLE concessions are mandated... you nary hear a peep. Not because it's a "DEM" state, but because they aren't demanding much.

Of course the Unions are going to bluster about it, of course they may call for picketing. That's their job.. to get the best deal they can for their members.

Why didn't I speak out against it? This was the first I heard... I do have a life away from the message board, ya know? I have a full time Job that requires me to work 2 out of 3 weekends, I have a lovely wife and 2 kids. Maybe you have nothing better to do than slam liberals, but I have much better things to do than slam Conservatives. Maybe that's why you guys are so obsessed! Hell, you're lonely and Glenn Beck and the boys of FOX and AM radio are your only friends.

It's sad, really.

You don't have time and then you find time. LMAO

Well, I am glad that was your only bone of contention. Yeah, when I am not spending time with my family, or working, or out playing some music at some local watering hole 2-3 times/month(after all, I do have a family), I enjoy coming on here and speaking my mind.

 

[Steelplate]

Why do Republicans hate American workers having rights?

Oh, I forgot, Republicans are "owned" by corporations. Hope that helps them get jobs. Hasn't worked so far.

What do you plan to replace American corporations with DUmmie?

Good question. I know you weren't talking to me, but if you don't mind, I'll interject my thoughts.

1. I have no problem with people making money. Even becoming rich. I only ask one thing... how much is enough, and when does it become detrimental to the rest of our society?

What's wrong with the ultra-rich realizing that their greed is causing harm to others? That even our poorest deserve to have a roof over their heads, food on the table, and employment that allows them such things and even(gasp) a luxury or two to be saved up for... a modest vacation, a new appliance... whatever.

I also have to argue against(once again) the Conservative call for de-regulation and lowering(if not eliminating) taxation on large corporations. If you dig monopolies... great. I, however am not so keen on them. You think Government is a tyranny? Good God, Imagine what the Conglomerate will do(and already does to a great extent) if they didn't have any boundaries... remember. In a Democratic Government, you lose your elected position if you fuck up. In the Corporate world, you are given a large bonus, a golden parachute and a chance to catch on with another Company.

Now, Before you start.... I am not talking about a guy that owns a Dairy Queen Franchise, or even a McDonald's. I am talking about the big boys at the Corporate Level... Both in the Business sector and the Financial sector.

And when you start talking about the huge monstrous Conglomerates that have their tendrils stuck into so many businesses, I think they ought to be outlawed. It goes against everything that America Stands for. They are the reason that Small Business is failing, they are the reason that ideas like Universal Health Care is made out to be a boogeyman.

If we had a Universal Health Care system in place... what would be the advantage of working for a large conglomerate? The chance to become CEO someday? Right... with all the Competition you'd face, you'd probably have a better chance of making it in the NFL. No, the reason MOST people stay with a large company like that is twofold.

A. They pay good benefits(health Care, 401k's, vision, dental)

B. They pay a competitive Salary.

Health Care Benefits Benefit them as much as they do you. If you take that out of the equation, then you are only held in place by salary and Retirement. So, you are more inclined to take that "risk" that everyone talks about and go out on your own, or hook up with a small company that you can grow with.

The fear of someone in your family getting sick and not having those benefits outweigh the desire to make your mark and do something other than being a drone for them.

So, If you REALLY want to know what my politics are... take a look at this post. I believe in two things Domestically.

1. The breakup of these monopolies

2. The Social welfare of ALL of our citizens.

Let me touch on #2 for a second. I believe in personal responsibility too. However, I also believe in right and wrong. I think that it's wrong for people who have lost their life savings due to some asshole on Wall Street playing Casino with their money to be told...

"We are getting rid of Social Security and Medicare"... you should have been more responsible. I know... you've been paying into it for your whole life... too bad."


I don't believe that a single mother who is working full time at a minimum wage job and has to spend almost all of it for Child Care while she is working shouldn't be allowed assistance for her family's housing, clothing and nutritional needs.

I also believe that not everyone can be a business owner, a CEO, a Lawyer, or even a professional. There is a great number of people in this country that aren't particularly smart, that aren't particularly savvy, and that are way too trusting of people smarter than them. However, these people are some of the most hard working, reliable and honest people in this country. And this is exactly who our Corporate Structure has abandoned. People who used to make decent to good money at factories where monotony is the routine, are now clerks at Convenience stores, stock boys at Walmart and other jobs that don't pay squat... but their cost of living hasn't gone down. Just their pay.

Ok... I've rambled on enough... have at me.

 

[Sallow]

It's great that Republicans are alienating people that work for a living. Which..by the way makes up the Majority of Americans.

Keep it up boys.

 

[Steelplate]

Just remember Sallow... one person/one vote is the Plutocracy's greatest fear.

They know that the Gravy Train can end for them at any time. That's why they pay so much to keep Americans grabbing at each others' throats.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ok, try this. This is english now. ANd I'll type it slow so you can understand.

WHen the gov of wisc introduced the bill, it included the increased contributions from public employees for their pensions and health care. After a week, the unions decided they would accept the increased contributions. But that wasnt enough. So, where the controversy comes in is where all collective bargaining would also be stripped. Hence, the protests.
So, those increased contributions will not be going to help balance the so called budget deficit (an amount that changes daily, and gets smaller) but will be going directly to corporations. In essence, the money the public workers now pay in will be shipped over to the companies that were pushing for the bill to go through so they can continue not to pay any taxes while the working middle class gives them their money.

All collective bargaining was not stripped.
Corporations have nothing to do with any of this as it only affects state workers, not including police and fire.
Your fantasy about companies and taxes is just that, fantasy.
Id suggest you grow up and move out of mom's basement.