Speak Truth About Iraq

[MJDuncan1982]

According to the McLaughlin Group, on Mississippi Public Broadcasting, the insurgents are now in control of 36 of Iraq's cities and towns. Many of the major cities are included: "Fallujah, Tikrit, Karbala, Najaf and Ramadi". The CIA reports that civil war is possible and Pat Buchanan says that the insurgency is because of us, meaning that by definition, our presence cannot cause its decline. Can this Board at the very least admit now that Iraq is getting out of hand and is nowhere near the rosy picture that President Bush continues to assert? At some point partisan politics has to stop and we must speak about the truth to correctly assess what to do with the situation.

 

[insein]

According to the McLaughlin Group, on Mississippi Public Broadcasting, the insurgents are now in control of 36 of Iraq's cities and towns. Many of the major cities are included: "Fallujah, Tikrit, Karbala, Najaf and Ramadi". The CIA reports that civil war is possible and Pat Buchanan says that the insurgency is because of us, meaning that by definition, our presence cannot cause its decline. Can this Board at the very least admit now that Iraq is getting out of hand and is nowhere near the rosy picture that President Bush continues to assert? At some point partisan politics has to stop and we must speak about the truth to correctly assess what to do with the situation.

Well in the face of the esteemed panel of the Mississippi Public Broadcasting system, unconfirmed CIA reports and Pat Buchanan i think we should admit defeat. Lets pack up and leave.

 

[Annie]

According to the McLaughlin Group, on Mississippi Public Broadcasting, the insurgents are now in control of 36 of Iraq's cities and towns. Many of the major cities are included: "Fallujah, Tikrit, Karbala, Najaf and Ramadi". The CIA reports that civil war is possible and Pat Buchanan says that the insurgency is because of us, meaning that by definition, our presence cannot cause its decline. Can this Board at the very least admit now that Iraq is getting out of hand and is nowhere near the rosy picture that President Bush continues to assert? At some point partisan politics has to stop and we must speak about the truth to correctly assess what to do with the situation.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610

 

[dilloduck]

Well in the face of the esteemed panel of the Mississippi Public Broadcasting system, unconfirmed CIA reports and Pat Buchanan i think we should admit defeat. Lets pack up and leave.

damn--and I thought we were doing relatively good in spite of the French!

 

[Annie]

damn--and I thought we were doing relatively good in spite of the French!

Yeah, withdraw now! LOL

 

[MJDuncan1982]

MPB was broadcasting "The McLaughlin Group". The panel members are: John McLaughlin, Eleanor Clift, Tony Blankley, Pat Buchanan and Lawrence O'Donnell. It has nothing to do intrinsically with Mississippi. It is a PBS affiliate.

 

[MJDuncan1982]

In addition, I was not suggesting we admit defeat and run. Why does it have to be all or nothing here? A good strategist knows the truth about the situation so s/he can act accordingly. And the public discourse on Iraq would benefit as well acknowledging what state the situation is in.

 

[dilloduck]

In addition, I was not suggesting we admit defeat and run. Why does it have to be all or nothing here? A good strategist knows the truth about the situation so s/he can act accordingly. And the public discourse on Iraq would benefit as well acknowledging what state the situation is in.

I don't really know the truth about the situation in Iraq because it's a huge picture with lots of people reporting on it from different angles. I'm trusting the administration to do the right thing

 

[Bullypulpit]

<center><h2><a href=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-usiraq17sep17,1,4668435,print.story?coll=la-headlines-world>Unease Shadows Bush's Optimism</a></h2></center>

<blockquote>Noting the administration's request to divert $3.4 billion in Iraq reconstruction money to a series of emergency measures, including efforts to improve security, conservative Rep. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) said: "Now, that does not add up, in my opinion, to a pretty picture, to a picture that shows that we're winning. But it does add up to this: an acknowledgment that <b>we are in deep trouble</b>."

The committee's moderate Republican chairman, Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, expressed exasperation at the administration's rosy prewar assessments that as soon as Hussein was deposed, a euphoric Iraqi population would embrace democracy.

"<b>The nonsense of that is [now] apparent</b>," he said. "<b>The lack of planning is apparent</b>."</blockquote>

And so, the Republicans begin to feed on their own...They begin to question the wisdom of the man they recently nominated in New York, shamelessly politicizing 9/11 and the "war on terror". The light of truth begins to intrude upon their unquestioned allegiance to Dubbyuh and his administration. And all that needs to be said to them is, "Told ya so..."

 

[Avatar4321]

<center><h2><a href=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-usiraq17sep17,1,4668435,print.story?coll=la-headlines-world>Unease Shadows Bush's Optimism</a></h2></center>

<blockquote>Noting the administration's request to divert $3.4 billion in Iraq reconstruction money to a series of emergency measures, including efforts to improve security, conservative Rep. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) said: "Now, that does not add up, in my opinion, to a pretty picture, to a picture that shows that we're winning. But it does add up to this: an acknowledgment that <b>we are in deep trouble</b>."

The committee's moderate Republican chairman, Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, expressed exasperation at the administration's rosy prewar assessments that as soon as Hussein was deposed, a euphoric Iraqi population would embrace democracy.

"<b>The nonsense of that is [now] apparent</b>," he said. "<b>The lack of planning is apparent</b>."</blockquote>

And so, the Republicans begin to feed on their own...They begin to question the wisdom of the man they recently nominated in New York, shamelessly politicizing 9/11 and the "war on terror". The light of truth begins to intrude upon their unquestioned allegiance to Dubbyuh and his administration. And all that needs to be said to them is, "Told ya so..."

What are you talking about? Hagel has been against the war from the beginning. Why would his opinion matter? He is also the lone republican working with about 8 or 9 Democrats on resinstituting the draft. So why should i listen to him? just cause he has an R next to his name?

 

[Bullypulpit]

What are you talking about? Hagel has been against the war from the beginning. Why would his opinion matter? He is also the lone republican working with about 8 or 9 Democrats on resinstituting the draft. So why should i listen to him? just cause he has an R next to his name?

It would have been unthinkable for them to criticize Dubbyuh so openly, even a few months ago. 'Tis but the beginning... :teeth:

 

[Avatar4321]

It would have been unthinkable for them to criticize Dubbyuh so openly, even a few months ago. 'Tis but the beginning... :teeth:

Hello?! did you hear a word ive said. Hagel has been critisizing him since the beginning of the war. He thought we needed to bring the draft back. Bush disagrees. That hasnt stopped Hagel and Senator Biden along with a bunch of other Democrats of trying to sponsor draft legislation and get the issue in the public eye.

Heck everyones been critising the President. Its all Democrats have done for the last four years and too many Republicans as well. Does change the fact that Bush will win with a landslide.

 

[onedomino]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610

An excellent and comprehensive link outling positive developments in Iraq.

 

[Bullypulpit]

<blockquote> "I'll never forget," he said, when Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Colin Powell "came over and said it was time to end the fighting -- mission accomplished. I said, 'Do [Gen. Norman] Schwarzkopf and the commanders agree.'"

Bush said that within 30 seconds Powell had Schwarzkopf on the phone assuring him that the mission had been accomplished.

"I don't believe in mission creep," he continued. "Had we gone into Baghdad -- we could have done it, you guys could have done it, you could have been there in 48 hours -- and then what?

"Which sergeant, which private, whose life would be at stake in perhaps a fruitless hunt in an urban guerilla war to find the most-secure dictator in the world?

"Whose life would be on my hands as the commander-in-chief because I, unilaterally, went beyond the international law, went beyond the stated mission, and said we're going to show our macho?" he asked. "We're going into Baghdad. We're going to be an occupying power -- America in an Arab land -- with no allies at our side. It would have been disastrous." ...

...Whose life would be on my hands as the commander-in-chief because I, unilaterally, went beyond the international law, went beyond the stated mission, and said we're going to show our macho?</blockquote>

The above is from a speech by George H.W. Bush to Gulf War I vets, made in 1999. Apparently, Dubbyuh wasn't paying attention then either.

 

[dilloduck]

<blockquote> "I'll never forget," he said, when Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Colin Powell "came over and said it was time to end the fighting -- mission accomplished. I said, 'Do [Gen. Norman] Schwarzkopf and the commanders agree.'"

Bush said that within 30 seconds Powell had Schwarzkopf on the phone assuring him that the mission had been accomplished.

"I don't believe in mission creep," he continued. "Had we gone into Baghdad -- we could have done it, you guys could have done it, you could have been there in 48 hours -- and then what?

"Which sergeant, which private, whose life would be at stake in perhaps a fruitless hunt in an urban guerilla war to find the most-secure dictator in the world?

"Whose life would be on my hands as the commander-in-chief because I, unilaterally, went beyond the international law, went beyond the stated mission, and said we're going to show our macho?" he asked. "We're going into Baghdad. We're going to be an occupying power -- America in an Arab land -- with no allies at our side. It would have been disastrous." ...

...Whose life would be on my hands as the commander-in-chief because I, unilaterally, went beyond the international law, went beyond the stated mission, and said we're going to show our macho?</blockquote>

The above is from a speech by George H.W. Bush to Gulf War I vets, made in 1999. Apparently, Dubbyuh wasn't paying attention then either.

And Bush #1 was highly criticized for leaving Iraq too soon!

 

[Bullypulpit]

And Bush #1 was highly criticized for leaving Iraq too soon!

But he stood by his guns and did the right thing. He understood the consequences of pushing on into Bagdhad and toppling Hussein...Unlike his cognitively impaired offspring.

 

[nakedemperor]

McCain: Bush not straight enough on Iraq

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/19/iraq.senators/index.html

McCain? Ruh-roh...

 

[rtwngAvngr]

McCain will say anything to get his name in the paper. I respect him and all, but he's a bit of a glory hound.

 

[nakedemperor]

McCain will say anything to get his name in the paper. I respect him and all, but he's a bit of a glory hound.

Where does that sentiment come from?

 

[nbdysfu]

Of course, in that interview McCain refers to Napoleon to talk about Fallujah.

As Napoleon said, if you say you're going to take Vienna, you take Vienna

Of course, I guess he could have also mentioned the one where Napoleon said;

if you say you're going to take Moscow, you take Moscow

Now I'm glad I didn't vote for him.