Spain On Course To Elect Conservative As PM...

[PeteEU]

Spain will elect a conservative government for the same reason why it elected a socialist government four years ago - voters usually kick the party in power during hard times no matter what the party.

4 years ago the sitting government got re-elected. They have been in power for 8 years.

They got elected on the heels of the Madrid bombing correct ?And I must say I found their re-election to be stunning as they were already on the the radar screen as having major financial problems at that time.

They got elected after the former conservative government blamed ETA for the bombings. But the conservative government was highly unpopular at the time because of massive scandals at top level and regionally/locally. The Prime Minister at the time Aznar, had already said a year earlier he was not running again in large part because of the scandals and Rajoy was his "last minute" replacement. The Madrid bombings was just the last straw for many independents and marginal voters.

As for their re-election. They got in part re-elected because of the scandals of the previous government... people had not forgotten the Madrid bombing scandal. Also the whole crisis in Spain is in large part due to the policies put in place by the Aznar government, and this fact was used to taint Rajoy and his party at the 2008 election. The socialist government was dealt a big shit turd in 2004 and have not had the ability (or maybe willingness) to deal with the structural problems in especially the labour market, that are causing most of the problems in Spain.

Now saying that, I personally have zero faith in Rojay being able to do jack shit since he has been unable to present any clear economic policies so far as far as I have seen. He has been saying things about contract reforms (something the Socialists have been doing) and of course cutting taxes.. not like they are that high. Remember these structural problems were around 8+ years ago also, and the Conservative government at the time did nothing to fix them.. in fact they made it worse in some areas.

I am hoping that Rojay has the balls to nationalise parts of the building sector and use the housing glut that the banks cant sell as rental properties for Spanish citizens. A sad fact in a good way, is that the last decade of building boom never benefited the Spanish people but the outsiders (like me) who desired vacation homes in the hot and warm south. This drove home prices up to unrealistic levels and meant most Spaniards were driven out of the market. This of course also meant that Spaniards dont have much mortgage debt (compared to other countries... a large part of the debt in housing is debt owed by building companies who have tones of homes they have built but cant sell.. something like 86 billion dollars worth), but also sadly meant it is quite common for children and even married couples living with their parents till their late 30s or early 40s, and usually take over the family home on their parents death.

We shall see... something has to be done that is for sure.

 

[PeteEU]

Spain has the lowest tax rate of any industialized country.

That's why they have a huge defiicit.

Like Americans, they want everything, but they don't want to pay for it.

Not true. It is "low" but not the lowest.

The "huge" deficit (compared to what.. the UK and US hahah.. then it is not that big) is due to the economic crisis started by the US sub-prime collapse.

Spain had a surplus in 2003-2008..... just so you know.. and still has a low debt ratio.

 

[Chris]

Spain has the lowest tax rate of any industialized country.

That's why they have a huge defiicit.

Like Americans, they want everything, but they don't want to pay for it.

Not true. It is "low" but not the lowest.

The "huge" deficit (compared to what.. the UK and US hahah.. then it is not that big) is due to the economic crisis started by the US sub-prime collapse.

Spain had a surplus in 2003-2008..... just so you know.. and still has a low debt ratio.

Then they should be spending money to put people to work.

What conservatives never seem to realize is that people are every countries greatest resource.

 

[PeteEU]

It does not mean that the Spaniards are voting for a libertarian Reaganite party. It does mean that Socialists are getting kicked to the curb.

Actually it is. The PP have far far more in common with the GOP than with say the UK or German Conservative parties.

The PP is in large part the old Franco party, the old Spanish dictator. And they are socially conservative, church loving and fiscally conservative on top of that. One of the first things they want to get rid off in Spain is gay marriage and adoption because of course the Catholic Church is against it. Most Spaniards oppose this move big time and there will be big protests if they do try it.

I really hope there are two results from this: 1) interest rate pressure in Spain relaxes a bit, so there is less hysteria over the Euro.

Me too it is getting boring as hell to listen too

2) The new Spanish government does do some sensible (read free market) things to reduce unemployment

Hope so.. but I aint putting money on it.. they did not do anything last time they were in power...

But Spain is "free market".. in fact it is now easier to open up a business in Spain than anywhere else (with exception of certain critical business like doctors). All you do is start up and send in the paper work later (registration, taxes and so on), where as before you would have too do all the paper work beforehand. Also the amount of paper work has been cut considerably.

What needs to change is the labour laws.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Spain has the lowest tax rate of any industialized country.

That's why they have a huge defiicit.

Like Americans, they want everything, but they don't want to pay for it.

Based on what? There are lots of taxes that add up. They may have a low income tax, but there are other taxes as well.

YOu might want to review your assertions before you make them Spain has some of the highest corporate rates. The US, Belgium, Japan and France are higher.

This wiki graph has a comparison of tax rates. As you can see, Spain figures in the middle, a lot higher than the US.

 

[PeteEU]

Spain has the lowest tax rate of any industialized country.

That's why they have a huge defiicit.

Like Americans, they want everything, but they don't want to pay for it.

Not true. It is "low" but not the lowest.

The "huge" deficit (compared to what.. the UK and US hahah.. then it is not that big) is due to the economic crisis started by the US sub-prime collapse.

Spain had a surplus in 2003-2008..... just so you know.. and still has a low debt ratio.

Then they should be spending money to put people to work.

What conservatives never seem to realize is that people are every countries greatest resource.

Hehe well that is the problem.. the markets want austerity, low debt and no deficits.. so you cant spend money. At the same time, the markets want growth and low unemployment and easy credit flows... but as long as you are paying off debt, and cutting, then there will be no growth and unemployment will go up.

So the markets have put Spain and other European countries in impossible situations. They cant spend money to fix their structural problems and get people back to work, and at the same time they have to cut even more so even more people loose their jobs, and that will make the markets say "not good, lets raise the pressure on X country" and so on and so on.

Basically the markets have ADHD with a concussion in the mind of teenager and the hormones of a pregnant woman.. they want everything here and now but it should not cost anything..... an impossible situation.

 

[Chris]

Spain has the lowest tax rate of any industialized country.

That's why they have a huge defiicit.

Like Americans, they want everything, but they don't want to pay for it.

Based on what? There are lots of taxes that add up. They may have a low income tax, but there are other taxes as well.

YOu might want to review your assertions before you make them Spain has some of the highest corporate rates. The US, Belgium, Japan and France are higher.

This wiki graph has a comparison of tax rates. As you can see, Spain figures in the middle, a lot higher than the US.

I read that in an article somewhere. Thanks for the correction.

I found an even better chart at this link....

List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Cowman]

You do understand that ‘conservative’ in Europe is not the same as ‘conservative’ in the United States, yes?

Actually it is. You're thinking of Republican and Democratic parties in other countries.

Conservatism and Liberalism in the united states is mostly similar to that in Europe. The one exception is that Liberals and conservatives both tend to be more to the right in America than their counterparts in other countries.

 

[Chris]

Not true. It is "low" but not the lowest.

The "huge" deficit (compared to what.. the UK and US hahah.. then it is not that big) is due to the economic crisis started by the US sub-prime collapse.

Spain had a surplus in 2003-2008..... just so you know.. and still has a low debt ratio.

Then they should be spending money to put people to work.

What conservatives never seem to realize is that people are every countries greatest resource.

Hehe well that is the problem.. the markets want austerity, low debt and no deficits.. so you cant spend money. At the same time, the markets want growth and low unemployment and easy credit flows... but as long as you are paying off debt, and cutting, then there will be no growth and unemployment will go up.

So the markets have put Spain and other European countries in impossible situations. They cant spend money to fix their structural problems and get people back to work, and at the same time they have to cut even more so even more people loose their jobs, and that will make the markets say "not good, lets raise the pressure on X country" and so on and so on.

Basically the markets have ADHD with a concussion in the mind of teenager and the hormones of a pregnant woman.. they want everything here and now but it should not cost anything..... an impossible situation.

Spain has low debt. They can spend money.

But they need to spend it on education, healthcare, research, technology, and infrastructure.

That's what drives economic growth.

 

[PeteEU]

Spain has the lowest tax rate of any industialized country.

That's why they have a huge defiicit.

Like Americans, they want everything, but they don't want to pay for it.

Based on what? There are lots of taxes that add up. They may have a low income tax, but there are other taxes as well.

YOu might want to review your assertions before you make them Spain has some of the highest corporate rates. The US, Belgium, Japan and France are higher.

This wiki graph has a comparison of tax rates. As you can see, Spain figures in the middle, a lot higher than the US.

Corporate tax rates should be taken with a grain of salt in pretty much all countries. The actual corporate tax burden is often much much much lower.. it is like 4% in the US I think.

 

[PeteEU]

Then they should be spending money to put people to work.

What conservatives never seem to realize is that people are every countries greatest resource.

Hehe well that is the problem.. the markets want austerity, low debt and no deficits.. so you cant spend money. At the same time, the markets want growth and low unemployment and easy credit flows... but as long as you are paying off debt, and cutting, then there will be no growth and unemployment will go up.

So the markets have put Spain and other European countries in impossible situations. They cant spend money to fix their structural problems and get people back to work, and at the same time they have to cut even more so even more people loose their jobs, and that will make the markets say "not good, lets raise the pressure on X country" and so on and so on.

Basically the markets have ADHD with a concussion in the mind of teenager and the hormones of a pregnant woman.. they want everything here and now but it should not cost anything..... an impossible situation.

Spain has low debt. They can spend money.

But they need to spend it on education, healthcare, research, technology, and infrastructure.

That's what drives economic growth.

They cant loan more because the markets for some reason have set them as a big risk and driven up their interest rate to over 6%.... the US is 2% and Germany is under 2%.

 

[Chris]

Interesting fact.....according to studies the people of Denmark are the happiest in the world.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=4086092&page=1

 

[Chris]

Denmark is a place where stoic locals wear sensible shoes and snack on herring sandwiches. Sure, they produce the occasional supermodel, but its most famous countryman may be the late entertainer Victor Borge.

Could the Danes really be the happiest people in the world? When ABC News anchor Bill Weir traveled there to find out, he asked random Danes to rate themselves in terms of happiness, on a scale of one to 10. Many people rated themselves at least an eight, and there were several nines and 10s. Finally, one grouchy Dane came along who said she didn't believe Danes were so happy. But then she quickly conceded that she herself felt rather content with her life, and said Danes in general had very little to complain about.

Danes do have one potential complaint: high taxes. The happiest people in the world pay some of the highest taxes in the world -- between 50 percent and 70 percent of their incomes. In exchange, the government covers all health care and education, and spends more on children and the elderly than any country in the world per capita. With just 5.5 million people, the system is efficient, and people feel "tryghed" -- the Danish word for "tucked in" -- like a snug child.

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

 

[paulitician]

The Socialist Nanny State also oppresses the People. It's not just about economic issues. Much of Western Europe now resemble Police States at this point. They have become shuttered Surveillance Societies. Their people are heavily monitored 24/7. I would hate to see our nation end up that way. Unfortunately we are headed there though. Lets not go down that European Nanny State road.

 

[Chris]

The Socialist Nanny State also oppresses the People. It's not just about economic issues. Much of Western Europe now resemble Police States at this point. They have become shuttered Surveillance Societies. Their people are heavily monitored 24/7. I would hate to see our nation end up that way. Unfortunately we are headed there though. Lets not go down that European Nanny State road.

Ever heard of the Patriot Act?

 

[Political Junky]

Denmark is a place where stoic locals wear sensible shoes and snack on herring sandwiches. Sure, they produce the occasional supermodel, but its most famous countryman may be the late entertainer Victor Borge.

Could the Danes really be the happiest people in the world? When ABC News anchor Bill Weir traveled there to find out, he asked random Danes to rate themselves in terms of happiness, on a scale of one to 10. Many people rated themselves at least an eight, and there were several nines and 10s. Finally, one grouchy Dane came along who said she didn't believe Danes were so happy. But then she quickly conceded that she herself felt rather content with her life, and said Danes in general had very little to complain about.

Danes do have one potential complaint: high taxes. The happiest people in the world pay some of the highest taxes in the world -- between 50 percent and 70 percent of their incomes. In exchange, the government covers all health care and education, and spends more on children and the elderly than any country in the world per capita. With just 5.5 million people, the system is efficient, and people feel "tryghed" -- the Danish word for "tucked in" -- like a snug child.

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

It's much the same in other Scandinavian countries. A friend who has family in Norway has told me stories of how they are taken care of.

 

[paulitician]

The Socialist Nanny State also oppresses the People. It's not just about economic issues. Much of Western Europe now resemble Police States at this point. They have become shuttered Surveillance Societies. Their people are heavily monitored 24/7. I would hate to see our nation end up that way. Unfortunately we are headed there though. Lets not go down that European Nanny State road.

Ever heard of the Patriot Act?

Yes i have and they should get rid of it. But even with the Patriot Act,the U.S. lags far behind the Europeans in oppressing the people with round the clock surveillance. That's where Socialist Nanny States take you in the end. I really do pray we don't end up like that.

 

[francoHFW]

They pay you to go to college in Denmark, and everyone earns a good salary. Surveillance state is RW BULLSHYTTE. How do you manage to live in Malaga- I couldn't stay in Fuengirola, despite owning a bar...

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Spain has the lowest tax rate of any industialized country.

That's why they have a huge defiicit.

Like Americans, they want everything, but they don't want to pay for it.

Based on what? There are lots of taxes that add up. They may have a low income tax, but there are other taxes as well.

YOu might want to review your assertions before you make them Spain has some of the highest corporate rates. The US, Belgium, Japan and France are higher.

This wiki graph has a comparison of tax rates. As you can see, Spain figures in the middle, a lot higher than the US.

Corporate tax rates should be taken with a grain of salt in pretty much all countries. The actual corporate tax burden is often much much much lower.. it is like 4% in the US I think.

The Forbes article claims it to be around 22%. Most corporate income tax systems are like Swiss Cheese, but the actual rate of extraction hovers around 20-25%. The US rate of extraction is on the high side.

 

[francoHFW]

A conservative in Spain is known as a commie by our Pub dupes.

And thanks to Pubs for ruining the world economy and THEIR recovery...Powermad numbskulls...