Something else to think about before you cheer on or beg for more war

[Wry Catcher]

Yawn.
When you think you have something other than correlation, please let us know.

LOL, other than "correlation"?

(cor·re·la·tion: mutual relation of two or more things, parts. Synonyms: similarity, correspondence, matching; parallelism, equivalence; interdependence, interrelationship, interconnection).

Sorry. Thought my reference was obvious.
You're implying causation when all you have is correlation.
When you can show causation, let us know.

Cause is always hared to pinpoint; for there are too many variables - dependent and independent - in the world of politics. War is the failure of politics (I don't recall who first said this) but if you had read the Statement of Principles, and looked carefully with some foundation of who signed the document, it is not beyond the world of reason to believe war with Iraq was coveted by some.

And that's the issue, the direct cause is the President of the United States decided he wanted to invade Iraq; the Congress (foolishly IMHO) gave President Bush the authority and the signers of the document (likely) encouraged our unprecedented invasion of a country which had not directly attacked our own.

 

[Dr.Drock]

They are making a shot that will make soldiers forget about stress & trauma. It will be able to cure PTSD.

Wired Magazine: The Forgetting Pill Erases Painful Memories Forever

That sounds like excellent treatment so i don't want to downplay that, but you have to voluntarily request it and go through with it. Which most won't.

That sounds like a future govt program run amuck. Scary as hell. Can you imaging the twisted uses? Fuck that.

You're right.

Good old fashioned talking it out, whether that's with friends or family or a therapist is the best treatment. Problem is so many of these brave ppl think bottling it up and keeping it as just their problem is the best way to go.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Based on the opinions of the anti war crowd, surrender is the only viable option.

Once again you double down on stupid. Why do you post? If you need attention run into the street naked.

Some of those who oppose war have actually seen the elephant.

 

[M14 Shooter]

LOL, other than "correlation"?

(cor·re·la·tion: mutual relation of two or more things, parts. Synonyms: similarity, correspondence, matching; parallelism, equivalence; interdependence, interrelationship, interconnection).

Sorry. Thought my reference was obvious.
You're implying causation when all you have is correlation.
When you can show causation, let us know.

Cause is always hared to pinpoint; for there are too many variables

So, your citation of the PNAC information -really- means nothing.
10-4.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

That sounds like excellent treatment so i don't want to downplay that, but you have to voluntarily request it and go through with it. Which most won't.

That sounds like a future govt program run amuck. Scary as hell. Can you imaging the twisted uses? Fuck that.

You're right.

Good old fashioned talking it out, whether that's with friends or family or a therapist is the best treatment. Problem is so many of these brave ppl think bottling it up and keeping it as just their problem is the best way to go.

Well I can't begin to imagine what our troops go through but memory altering or inducing drugs just seems insane to me when you consider the negatiive applications such a thing could be used for.

Total Recall seemed silly the last time I saw it. Yikes

 

[Dr.Drock]

That sounds like a future govt program run amuck. Scary as hell. Can you imaging the twisted uses? Fuck that.

You're right.

Good old fashioned talking it out, whether that's with friends or family or a therapist is the best treatment. Problem is so many of these brave ppl think bottling it up and keeping it as just their problem is the best way to go.

Well I can't begin to imagine what our troops go through but memory altering or inducing drugs just seems insane to me when you consider the negatiive applications such a thing could be used for.

Total Recall seemed silly the last time I saw it. Yikes

Yeah the link he gave at the beginning offered up 3 hour talking sessions as treatment, i thought that was a great idea. The pill? Not so much. I think learning to cope with your memories is better than trying to erase them from your brain.

 

[KissMy]

They are making a shot that will make soldiers forget about stress & trauma. It will be able to cure PTSD.

Wired Magazine: The Forgetting Pill Erases Painful Memories Forever

That sounds like excellent treatment so i don't want to downplay that, but you have to voluntarily request it and go through with it. Which most won't.

That sounds like a future govt program run amuck. Scary as hell. Can you imaging the twisted uses? Fuck that.

Yes - It would not be a good thing for government to use PKMzeta blockers on the population.

I would love to get some PKMzeta & take it right before studying or reading things I wan to permanently commit to memory.

 

[healthmyths]

PTSD incorrectly calculated among soldiers: Veteran’s Administration « RAWA News


To date, the military has diagnosed 78,000 cases of PTSD, but the Veteran's Administration says that number is inaccurate.

The V.A. say the real number is closer to 800,000.



The military's latest mental health survey of combat troops in Afghanistan found 20 percent, one in five, suffering from acute stress, depression or anxiety.


Sad that this basically gets ignored by the media which for the most part lets our foreign policy go unquestioned.

Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on Obama for expanding the warmongering in Afghanistan. Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on someone who brings up the idea of War in Iran. Not only will it result in tens of thousands of dead american soldiers, tens of thousands of physically wounded soldiers, but HUNDREDS of thousands of mentally wounded soldiers who the vast majority will never get any help.

This is why I'm anti-war in ALL situations. The follow up war is always worse than what led up to it or worse than another alternative (only instance i can think of this not being the case is our Revolutionary War).

You wrote: "I'm anti-war in ALL situations."

That's nice to know.
So are you against ALL treaties? Are you against SEATO?, NATO, et.al. that most civilized countries agree, i.e. "alliances"?

You evidently were against throwing Saddam out of Kuwait?
How about after the 1991 CEASE FIRE which Saddam signed, but Saddam broke the agreement hundreds of times so you'd be against signing the 1991 Cease Fire?

Just like to know where you draw the line... if a guy not as nice as you wanted to bash your head in? Would you let him? Turn the other cheek as you ran?

 

[Dr.Drock]

PTSD incorrectly calculated among soldiers: Veteran’s Administration « RAWA News


To date, the military has diagnosed 78,000 cases of PTSD, but the Veteran's Administration says that number is inaccurate.

The V.A. say the real number is closer to 800,000.



The military's latest mental health survey of combat troops in Afghanistan found 20 percent, one in five, suffering from acute stress, depression or anxiety.


Sad that this basically gets ignored by the media which for the most part lets our foreign policy go unquestioned.

Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on Obama for expanding the warmongering in Afghanistan. Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on someone who brings up the idea of War in Iran. Not only will it result in tens of thousands of dead american soldiers, tens of thousands of physically wounded soldiers, but HUNDREDS of thousands of mentally wounded soldiers who the vast majority will never get any help.

This is why I'm anti-war in ALL situations. The follow up war is always worse than what led up to it or worse than another alternative (only instance i can think of this not being the case is our Revolutionary War).

You wrote: "I'm anti-war in ALL situations."

That's nice to know.
So are you against ALL treaties? Are you against SEATO?, NATO, et.al. that most civilized countries agree, i.e. "alliances"?

You evidently were against throwing Saddam out of Kuwait?
How about after the 1991 CEASE FIRE which Saddam signed, but Saddam broke the agreement hundreds of times so you'd be against signing the 1991 Cease Fire?

Just like to know where you draw the line... if a guy not as nice as you wanted to bash your head in? Would you let him? Turn the other cheek as you ran?

Yeah i don't see the purpose in treaties, I don't want my tax dollars used to defend a country we signed a treaty with. I want them used to defend the U.S.

Yep, Kuwait was none of our business, hell they weren't even an ally.

Apples and oranges. I can be trusted to defend myself, this gov't can't be. In your situation a guy would attack the other guy, he'd defend himself and kill the attacker, then after the attacker was dead he'd go blow up all the townspeople who had the audacity of living close to his attacker.

 

[High_Gravity]

PTSD incorrectly calculated among soldiers: Veteran’s Administration « RAWA News


To date, the military has diagnosed 78,000 cases of PTSD, but the Veteran's Administration says that number is inaccurate.

The V.A. say the real number is closer to 800,000.



The military's latest mental health survey of combat troops in Afghanistan found 20 percent, one in five, suffering from acute stress, depression or anxiety.


Sad that this basically gets ignored by the media which for the most part lets our foreign policy go unquestioned.

Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on Obama for expanding the warmongering in Afghanistan. Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on someone who brings up the idea of War in Iran. Not only will it result in tens of thousands of dead american soldiers, tens of thousands of physically wounded soldiers, but HUNDREDS of thousands of mentally wounded soldiers who the vast majority will never get any help.

This is why I'm anti-war in ALL situations. The follow up war is always worse than what led up to it or worse than another alternative (only instance i can think of this not being the case is our Revolutionary War).

You wrote: "I'm anti-war in ALL situations."

That's nice to know.
So are you against ALL treaties? Are you against SEATO?, NATO, et.al. that most civilized countries agree, i.e. "alliances"?

You evidently were against throwing Saddam out of Kuwait?
How about after the 1991 CEASE FIRE which Saddam signed, but Saddam broke the agreement hundreds of times so you'd be against signing the 1991 Cease Fire?

Just like to know where you draw the line... if a guy not as nice as you wanted to bash your head in? Would you let him? Turn the other cheek as you ran?

Yeah i don't see the purpose in treaties, I don't want my tax dollars used to defend a country we signed a treaty with. I want them used to defend the U.S.

Yep, Kuwait was none of our business, hell they weren't even an ally.

Apples and oranges. I can be trusted to defend myself, this gov't can't be. In your situation a guy would attack the other guy, he'd defend himself and kill the attacker, then after the attacker was dead he'd go blow up all the townspeople who had the audacity of living close to his attacker.

Actually I have no problem with helping the Kuwaitis out, Saddam was on his way to invade the Saudis next so we couldn't have let him claim all that oil, Desert Storm was conducted in a pretty good way with minimum casualties and no nation building, it was a success.

 

[Dr.Drock]

You wrote: "I'm anti-war in ALL situations."

That's nice to know.
So are you against ALL treaties? Are you against SEATO?, NATO, et.al. that most civilized countries agree, i.e. "alliances"?

You evidently were against throwing Saddam out of Kuwait?
How about after the 1991 CEASE FIRE which Saddam signed, but Saddam broke the agreement hundreds of times so you'd be against signing the 1991 Cease Fire?

Just like to know where you draw the line... if a guy not as nice as you wanted to bash your head in? Would you let him? Turn the other cheek as you ran?

Yeah i don't see the purpose in treaties, I don't want my tax dollars used to defend a country we signed a treaty with. I want them used to defend the U.S.

Yep, Kuwait was none of our business, hell they weren't even an ally.

Apples and oranges. I can be trusted to defend myself, this gov't can't be. In your situation a guy would attack the other guy, he'd defend himself and kill the attacker, then after the attacker was dead he'd go blow up all the townspeople who had the audacity of living close to his attacker.

Actually I have no problem with helping the Kuwaitis out, Saddam was on his way to invade the Saudis next so we couldn't have let him claim all that oil, Desert Storm was conducted in a pretty good way with minimum casualties and no nation building, it was a success.

But you can't look at it individually, the U.S. being capable of doing that is opening a huge can of worms where they feel they can step in anywhere and do whatever they want. Like what's happening now in the War on "Terror."

 

[High_Gravity]

Yeah i don't see the purpose in treaties, I don't want my tax dollars used to defend a country we signed a treaty with. I want them used to defend the U.S.

Yep, Kuwait was none of our business, hell they weren't even an ally.

Apples and oranges. I can be trusted to defend myself, this gov't can't be. In your situation a guy would attack the other guy, he'd defend himself and kill the attacker, then after the attacker was dead he'd go blow up all the townspeople who had the audacity of living close to his attacker.

Actually I have no problem with helping the Kuwaitis out, Saddam was on his way to invade the Saudis next so we couldn't have let him claim all that oil, Desert Storm was conducted in a pretty good way with minimum casualties and no nation building, it was a success.

But you can't look at it individually, the U.S. being capable of doing that is opening a huge can of worms where they feel they can step in anywhere and do whatever they want. Like what's happening now in the War on "Terror."

Well Desert storm is actually a model we can look at for success, not these cluster fucks in Iraq and Afghanistan, war is much, much better when done properly.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Sorry. Thought my reference was obvious.
You're implying causation when all you have is correlation.
When you can show causation, let us know.

Cause is always hared to pinpoint; for there are too many variables

So, your citation of the PNAC information -really- means nothing.
10-4.

Your response suggests you're dishonest or incredibly stupid. Since I don't believe you're stupid, or even willfully ignorant I conclude you're dishonest. Post the entire quote, come to the same conclusion and I will wondered if in fact dishonesty is not the problem.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Cause is always hared to pinpoint; for there are too many variables

So, your citation of the PNAC information -really- means nothing.
10-4.

Your response suggests you're dishonest or incredibly stupid.

How so?
You admit you cannot show a causal link between the PNAC and going to war in Iraq.
Given that - why does it matter what the PNAC says? All you have in that regard are your own biased inferences, about which no one really cares.

 

[Wry Catcher]

PTSD incorrectly calculated among soldiers: Veteran’s Administration « RAWA News


To date, the military has diagnosed 78,000 cases of PTSD, but the Veteran's Administration says that number is inaccurate.

The V.A. say the real number is closer to 800,000.



The military's latest mental health survey of combat troops in Afghanistan found 20 percent, one in five, suffering from acute stress, depression or anxiety.


Sad that this basically gets ignored by the media which for the most part lets our foreign policy go unquestioned.

Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on Obama for expanding the warmongering in Afghanistan. Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on someone who brings up the idea of War in Iran. Not only will it result in tens of thousands of dead american soldiers, tens of thousands of physically wounded soldiers, but HUNDREDS of thousands of mentally wounded soldiers who the vast majority will never get any help.

This is why I'm anti-war in ALL situations. The follow up war is always worse than what led up to it or worse than another alternative (only instance i can think of this not being the case is our Revolutionary War).

You wrote: "I'm anti-war in ALL situations."

That's nice to know.
So are you against ALL treaties? Are you against SEATO?, NATO, et.al. that most civilized countries agree, i.e. "alliances"?

You evidently were against throwing Saddam out of Kuwait?
How about after the 1991 CEASE FIRE which Saddam signed, but Saddam broke the agreement hundreds of times so you'd be against signing the 1991 Cease Fire?

Just like to know where you draw the line... if a guy not as nice as you wanted to bash your head in? Would you let him? Turn the other cheek as you ran?

Interesting comment. Since the right is regularly bringing up what our founders meant, I wonder how they feel about Washington's Farewell Address, "Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities."; and Jefferson's Inaugural Address, "peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none."

 

[Dr.Drock]

PTSD incorrectly calculated among soldiers: Veteran’s Administration « RAWA News


To date, the military has diagnosed 78,000 cases of PTSD, but the Veteran's Administration says that number is inaccurate.

The V.A. say the real number is closer to 800,000.



The military's latest mental health survey of combat troops in Afghanistan found 20 percent, one in five, suffering from acute stress, depression or anxiety.


Sad that this basically gets ignored by the media which for the most part lets our foreign policy go unquestioned.

Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on Obama for expanding the warmongering in Afghanistan. Keep this in mind the next time you cheer on someone who brings up the idea of War in Iran. Not only will it result in tens of thousands of dead american soldiers, tens of thousands of physically wounded soldiers, but HUNDREDS of thousands of mentally wounded soldiers who the vast majority will never get any help.

This is why I'm anti-war in ALL situations. The follow up war is always worse than what led up to it or worse than another alternative (only instance i can think of this not being the case is our Revolutionary War).

You wrote: "I'm anti-war in ALL situations."

That's nice to know.
So are you against ALL treaties? Are you against SEATO?, NATO, et.al. that most civilized countries agree, i.e. "alliances"?

You evidently were against throwing Saddam out of Kuwait?
How about after the 1991 CEASE FIRE which Saddam signed, but Saddam broke the agreement hundreds of times so you'd be against signing the 1991 Cease Fire?

Just like to know where you draw the line... if a guy not as nice as you wanted to bash your head in? Would you let him? Turn the other cheek as you ran?

Interesting comment. Since the right is regularly bringing up what our founders meant, I wonder how they feel about Washington's Farewell Address, "Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities."; and Jefferson's Inaugural Address, "peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none."

How is it that you view those comments in a positive way, but have unwavering enormous support for Obama?

Or am I reading you wrong and you don't support those comments by the founders?

 

[Wry Catcher]

So, your citation of the PNAC information -really- means nothing.
10-4.

Your response suggests you're dishonest or incredibly stupid.

How so?
You admit you cannot show a causal link between the PNAC and going to war in Iraq.
Given that - why does it matter what the PNAC says? All you have in that regard are your own biased inferences, about which no one really cares.

And what inferences do you make from this document?

Statement of Principles

For those interested in a causal relationship between the Iraq fiasco and this statement one need only understand that the signers had great influence on President Bush.

That you do not believe his brother, his vice president and other members of his cabinet, including the SecDef didn't have his ear and influence his decision to invade Iraq is absurd.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Your response suggests you're dishonest or incredibly stupid.

How so?
You admit you cannot show a causal link between the PNAC and going to war in Iraq.
Given that - why does it matter what the PNAC says? All you have in that regard are your own biased inferences, about which no one really cares.

And what inferences do you make from this document?

In reagrds to what?
If you want to claim influence between that organization and anyobne else - which you so very clearly do - you need to back up the claim with comething concrete; if you cannot do so, then, as an honest person, you'll reconsider the veracity your claim.

 

[Wry Catcher]

How so?
You admit you cannot show a causal link between the PNAC and going to war in Iraq.
Given that - why does it matter what the PNAC says? All you have in that regard are your own biased inferences, about which no one really cares.

And what inferences do you make from this document?

In reagrds to what?
If you want to claim influence between that organization and anyobne else - which you so very clearly do - you need to back up the claim with comething concrete; if you cannot do so, then, as an honest person, you'll reconsider the veracity your claim.

I made it as concrete as possible, so that you might understand.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And what inferences do you make from this document?

In reagrds to what?
If you want to claim influence between that organization and anyobne else - which you so very clearly do - you need to back up the claim with comething concrete; if you cannot do so, then, as an honest person, you'll reconsider the veracity your claim.

I made it as concrete as possible, so that you might understand.

While openly admitting you could not show causation.
Concrete? More like blueberry yogurt.